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kfs
= Cult of Ray =

USA
888 Posts

Posted - 04/05/2007 :  13:07:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
[quote]Originally posted by moksha23x
I'm babbling...but I'm going to edit and add this song quote to add to the Kim Deal debate in line with my post..... "I had my habits....I cannot lie...but I don't want to go through, This , Again,.....SHE took all the money,.... and hung me out to dry,........Why'd you have to go and break OUR heart"
[quote]
______________________________________________________________________
Actually, this song made me think of the Pixies too.
Also, it reminds me of 'She's My Way' which, in my head, is about the same person. You know..."I put the money down, see, it's too late" (paid to reserve the studio so you have to show up..) Then she didn't so now it's "she took all the money and hung me out to dry"
I know, it's silly, but it's fun to imagine....

Edited by - kfs on 04/05/2007 13:15:29
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coastline
> Teenager of the Year <

USA
2950 Posts

Posted - 04/05/2007 :  13:29:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Not to pee in anybody's corn flakes here, but the song and the album aren't about FB's life; they're about Herman Brood's. Those are fun ways to look at the song, but in the context of the album, it seems clear it's about Brood and Nina Hagen.

As for "She's My Way," you might be on to something, kfs.


Please pardon me, for these my wrongs.
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prozacrat
* Dog in the Sand *

USA
1184 Posts

Posted - 04/05/2007 :  13:41:40  Show Profile  Visit prozacrat's Homepage  Click to see prozacrat's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
I do agree with you, Coastline, and it seems pretty unlikely. But I wouldn't be surprised if he wrote the lyrics in such a way that it could be about both. I wouldn't consider myself a prolific songwriter, but I'd say at least half of the songs I write have lyrics that serve two or more meanings, and if a chump like me can do it (successfully or not) Frank could definitely pull it off. But I do think this album is pretty straight foward in its biographical (rather than autobiographical) method.

http://www.prozacrat.com
www.myspace.com/prozacrat
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moksha23x
- FB Fan -

USA
245 Posts

Posted - 04/05/2007 :  13:43:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by coastline

Not to pee in anybody's corn flakes here, but the song and the album aren't about FB's life; they're about Herman Brood's. Those are fun ways to look at the song, but in the context of the album, it seems clear it's about Brood and Nina Hagen.

As for "She's My Way," you might be on to something, kfs.


Please pardon me, for these my wrongs.



I wouldn't feel my Corn Flakes were peed on, Coastline. I understand this is a Herman Brood Biographical concept, my idea is just an unfiltered thought that there could be some duality in the meaning of the songs and album, nothing concrete...... when people began saying things like there is "no way this could be Pixies" material I thought "I don't think you can definitely rule it out because....".

Really??? you can't even PONDER that Frank Black possibly used a Herman Brood ressurection as a muse to ressurect his 'Black Francis','Pixies' muse????.......I'm not saying this is the way it is....I'm just saying check out this perspective. I know you, coastline, have probably thought of a lot of angles....why would you definitely rule it out???? I'm not being combative, I value your opinion.

Edited by - moksha23x on 04/05/2007 14:02:25
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whitefrancis
- FB Fan -

Australia
53 Posts

Posted - 04/05/2007 :  13:53:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
title tk was great! it was still more on par with pixies/last splash/teenager/fb s/t than anything frank has done since teenager imo. back to bluefinger though, the more i listen to it, it sounds like the logical follow up to cult of ray. frank black #4 if you will.
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langdonboom
= Cult of Ray =

USA
258 Posts

Posted - 04/05/2007 :  14:00:19  Show Profile  Click to see langdonboom's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by moksha23x

quote:
Originally posted by coastline

Not to pee in anybody's corn flakes here, but the song and the album aren't about FB's life; they're about Herman Brood's. Those are fun ways to look at the song, but in the context of the album, it seems clear it's about Brood and Nina Hagen.

As for "She's My Way," you might be on to something, kfs.


Please pardon me, for these my wrongs.



I wouldn't feel my Corn Flakes were peed on, Coastline. I understand this is a Herman Brood Biographical concept, my idea is just an unfiltered thought, nothing concrete...... when people began saying things like there is "no way this could be Pixies" material I thought "I don't think you can definitely rule it out because....".

Really??? you can't even PONDER that Frank Black
possibly[/b] used a Herman Brood ressurection as a muse to ressurect his 'Black Francis','Pixies' muse????.......I'm not saying this is the way it is....I'm just saying check out this perspective. I know you, coastline, have probably thought of a lot of angles....why would you definitely rule it out???? I'm not being combative, I value your opinion.



Also isn't he known for writing his lyrics last, sometimes ultra-last minute? Not that I'm in the "definitely a pixies album" camp, but he could have written the music first and then decided to link the songs all together with a (convenient? easy?) lyrical theme.

Plenty of speculation possibilities.
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =

Mexico
15297 Posts

Posted - 04/05/2007 :  14:00:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by lucmove

In any case, I think it is very premature to blame Kim Deal for anything whatsoever at this time.



I blame Canada



jamming good with Weird and Gilly
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coastline
> Teenager of the Year <

USA
2950 Posts

Posted - 04/05/2007 :  14:07:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
For what? Inventing maple syrup?


Please pardon me, for these my wrongs.
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TheScooper
- FB Fan -

USA
110 Posts

Posted - 04/05/2007 :  14:57:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
All I know is, if Kim hears Bluefinger and still has doubts that a new Pixies album would do anything but rule ass, she is crazy.

I love the little I've heard of bluefinger, but the ONLY thing that's missing for me (and the songs are still great without it) is a lead guitar. Add in Santiago's lead and Kim's vocals and these songs are straight out of the Pixies' golden era. Not to say that it would seem like an imitation, I just am speculating that they'd be just as good.

That said, the songs kick ass already.
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Stuart
- The Clopser -

China
2291 Posts

Posted - 04/05/2007 :  15:40:46  Show Profile  Visit Stuart's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Excuse my ignorance, what is Ft Wayne? Anything Pixies soundling I want to get my hands on. I have Bluefinger but it doesn't appear on my copy...

Because your candle burned too bright, that I almost forgot it was twilight
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<

Netherlands
5175 Posts

Posted - 04/05/2007 :  15:54:44  Show Profile  Click to see billgoodman's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
Black Francis/Frank Black never took a lot of drugs as I recall. And it was mostly Kelley if we're talking about the Deal sisters. But what do we really know?

Ohh and I love all the breeders albums, all 3 of them and the Amps record. The only thing I don't like is the fact that there's only 4 records in a twenty year period (okay, not really twenty years, but they were called the Breeders long before Pod anyway)

---------------------------
BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
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johnnyribcage
= Cult of Ray =

USA
771 Posts

Posted - 04/05/2007 :  18:50:35  Show Profile  Visit johnnyribcage's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Oh, Dark Mother... I've just listened to the full Bluefinger twice... I'll be buying two of this one. Maybe three. One to get down with, one to keep in the package, and one to try to get signed at a show. This is the most important thing Charles has done since the first Catholics. The man has been reborn. The crazy thing is, it really sounds as if "Black Francis" really is a split personality of the man, since this sounds closer to Pixies than anything else he did. Despite how that comes across, I'm of the belief that Frank's solo output is far more interesting and multi-facited than his Pixies era, but this reminds me of why I fell in love with his music in the first place.

Did he get tired of waiting for a Pixies studio date for a real album and just decide to throw this up to say, "LOOK!, I CAN STILL DO THIS TOO, I INVENTED IT FOR CHRIST'S SAKE!" or was it just time for the other side to re-emerge? One wonders if the "Frank Black" persona is actually just that - another side of many. What would a Black Charles album sound like? What would a Francis Thompson album sound like? Sorry, I'm going on a tangent here, but this one has the potential to bring Charles back to the forefront of music, if only it can get the right exposure. It sounds so fresh!!
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coastline
> Teenager of the Year <

USA
2950 Posts

Posted - 04/05/2007 :  19:54:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Stuart

Excuse my ignorance, what is Ft Wayne? Anything Pixies soundling I want to get my hands on. I have Bluefinger but it doesn't appear on my copy...
"Fort Wayne" is a song by Grand Duchy, which, as far as anybody knows, is just FB and his wife, Violet Clark. There have been a couple threads about it:

http://forum.frankblack.net/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=17855

http://forum.frankblack.net/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=17940


Please pardon me, for these my wrongs.
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Stuart
- The Clopser -

China
2291 Posts

Posted - 04/05/2007 :  21:31:35  Show Profile  Visit Stuart's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Thanks.. really digging this album. It's definately the best album for a long time. Some of the not so immediate likable songs are starting to creep up on me. I still think that Threshold Apprehension is the best though, that and Tight Black Rubber... sound very Pixies imo.

One song I do not like on the album is 'She took all the money.' For me it has too many choruses, which become annoying to listen to... I just can't see myself growing to like this song. Other than that, every other song on the album is starting to grow on me in true Frank Black style. Man, I have waited a while for an album like this from Franky-boy. I love it... someone mentioned that this is gonna be the sound of the summer and I have to agree that this album will dominate my cd player for the next few months for sure. It would be great if he plays some of these songs on his european tour!

Because your candle burned too bright, that I almost forgot it was twilight
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Jefrey
= Cult of Ray =

USA
918 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2007 :  01:59:51  Show Profile  Visit Jefrey's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by coastline

For what? Inventing maple syrup?


Please pardon me, for these my wrongs.



Say huh? They only invented maple syrup because they needed more carbs to play hockey ;)

== jeffamerica ==

-He played piano really fuckin' good.
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Jefrey
= Cult of Ray =

USA
918 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2007 :  02:04:39  Show Profile  Visit Jefrey's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Stuart


One song I do not like on the album is 'She took all the money.' For me it has too many choruses, which become annoying to listen to... I just can't see myself growing to like this song.



I remember reading something about what "She took all the money" was about, but I forgot. It's a short song, and I don;t think the album would be complete without it, as it's part of the biography.

I think I might agree (out of context it might not be the best song), but I've listened to the album about 30 times now and I'm quite sure it has to be there between "Can't Break A Heart" and the finale "Bluefinger" or it wouldn't be complete.

Coastline, what's the meaning of the song again? This album is so great if you know all the hidden trivia - I'd like to know.

== jeffamerica ==

-He played piano really fuckin' good.
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<

Netherlands
5175 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2007 :  02:37:06  Show Profile  Click to see billgoodman's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
I believe someonse said it was about Nina Hagen and Herman Brood, there fling and rock and roll mariage. But I could be wrong

---------------------------
BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
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two reelers
= Cult of Ray =

Austria
925 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2007 :  03:23:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
after a few more listens, is still dislike this album. the only song i like is "lolita". don't get all the pixies/TOTY comparision, either. i just find the music on there very repetitive and predictable. its like after you have heard the fisrt 10 seconds, you know the rest of the song. for me, that was never the case with a pre-bluefinger song of frank black, even with the very simple ones (e.g., "distance equals..."). IMO, a lead guitar is definitely lacking on BF. on the other hand, i haven't listened to the lyrics of BF yet. and all this rant, thats just me.


I joined the cult of Souled American / 'cause they are a damn' fine band
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Stuart
- The Clopser -

China
2291 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2007 :  03:50:29  Show Profile  Visit Stuart's Homepage  Reply with Quote
You are entitled to your opinion, nobody should shoot you down for that. I know what you mean by the lack of the lead guitar, though.

Because your candle burned too bright, that I almost forgot it was twilight
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frankoholic
- FB Fan -

Belgium
38 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2007 :  04:27:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think one of the things I like about this album is the lacking of lead guitar.
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yingguoguizi
- FB Fan -

China
62 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2007 :  05:18:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
yeah, I think it's a nice change to have no guitar solos. I do hope that it isn't a permanent thing, though. It is nice to have an album where you can hear Frank's guitar work really clearly.
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coastline
> Teenager of the Year <

USA
2950 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2007 :  05:19:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by JefreyCoastline, what's the meaning of the song again? This album is so great if you know all the hidden trivia - I'd like to know.
Well, there's a mistake -- thinking I know anything. At any rate, Billgoodman, Llamadance and I have discussed this one in passing, and we think it's about Brood's girlfriend Nina Hagen. Nothing concrete, other than the story seems to fit, and she is from Germany, which the song makes several references to.

Here are the lyrics:

Shamalama ding dang
Oh me, oh my
She took all the money
And left me here to die

On my way to Hamburg
And we had a little booze
Now I'm stuck in Dresden
With the solitary blues

Shamalama ding dang
Oh me, oh my
She took all the money
And left me here to die

I had my habits
I cannot lie
But I don't wanna
Go through this again

Shamalama ding dang
Oh me, oh my
She took all the money
And left me here to die

On my way to Central Station
Then my train did pause
Why'd she have to
Go and break our hearts?

Shamalama ding dang
Oh me, oh my
She took all the money
And left me here to die

Don't want her lovin'
And I don't want her new address
I don't know the reason why

Shamalama ding dang
Oh me, oh my
She took all the money
And left me here to die

Shamalama ding dang
Oh me, oh my
She took all the money
And left me here to die

Here's the wiki for Nina Hagen: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nina_Hagen

The interesting line in the song is "Why'd she have to go and break our hearts?" Not sure whose hearts she broke. Maybe somebody who knows more about her can figure that out.


Please pardon me, for these my wrongs.
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two reelers
= Cult of Ray =

Austria
925 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2007 :  05:48:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
in austria nina hagen is known for her demonstration of masturbation in a (serious) late-night talk show, way back in the 80ies.
she had some funny songs, some (or many) about drugs. pretty "interesting" voice.

I joined the cult of Souled American / 'cause they are a damn' fine band
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<

Netherlands
5175 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2007 :  06:00:18  Show Profile  Click to see billgoodman's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
In Threshold Apprehension there's some lead guitar, in the end, very burried in the mix. You can hear some notes.

---------------------------
BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
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vilainde
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<

Niue
7313 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2007 :  06:04:40  Show Profile  Visit vilainde's Homepage  Reply with Quote
And there's some sort of guitar solo in Bluefinger.


Denis

"Can you hear me? I aint got shit to say."
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kfs
= Cult of Ray =

USA
888 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2007 :  07:08:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The first time I heard that "Shamalama Ding Dang..." I thought there would be NO WAY I'd ever like this song but now it's probably in my top 3 from Bluefinger.
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the_great_stupido
- FB Fan -

16 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2007 :  08:02:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by coastline

quote:
Originally posted by JefreyCoastline, what's the meaning of the song again? This album is so great if you know all the hidden trivia - I'd like to know.
Well, there's a mistake -- thinking I know anything. At any rate, Billgoodman, Llamadance and I have discussed this one in passing, and we think it's about Brood's girlfriend Nina Hagen. Nothing concrete, other than the story seems to fit, and she is from Germany, which the song makes several references to.

Here are the lyrics:

Shamalama ding dang
Oh me, oh my
She took all the money
And left me here to cry

On my way to Hamburg
And we had a little booze
Now I'm stuck in Dresden
With the solitary blues

Shamalama ding dang
Oh me, oh my
She took all the money
And left me here to cry

I have my habits
I cannot lie
But I don't wanna
Go through this again

Shamalama ding dang
Oh me, oh my
She took all the money
And hung me out to dry

On my way to Central Station
There my train departs
Why'd she have to
Go and break our hearts?

Shamalama ding dang
Oh me, oh my
She took all the money
And now I can't get high

Don't want her lovin'
And I don't want her new address
I don't wanna know the reason why

Shamalama ding dang
Oh me, oh my
She took all the money
And left me here to die

Shamalama ding dang
Oh me, oh my
She took all the money
And left me here to die

Here's the wiki for Nina Hagen: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nina_Hagen

The interesting line in the song is "Why'd she have to go and break our hearts?" Not sure whose hearts she broke. Maybe somebody who knows more about her can figure that out.


Please pardon me, for these my wrongs.



^ A couple of minor alterations to the lyrics.
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coastline
> Teenager of the Year <

USA
2950 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2007 :  08:39:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Stupid me ... I used cut and paste for the shamalama parts. I knew there were some different lines, but it was early this morning and I wasn't quite awake yet. Thanks, tgs.


Please pardon me, for these my wrongs.
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starmekitten
-= Forum Pistolera =-

United Kingdom
6370 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2007 :  09:00:30  Show Profile  Visit starmekitten's Homepage  Reply with Quote
For those who missed this.

Idiot.
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Grotesque
= Cult of Ray =

France
777 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2007 :  09:24:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by the acorahs

quote:
Originally posted by jnaus

quote:
Originally posted by lucmove
5) Please stop dissing Kim Deal. We still don't know if she refused anything, and if she did, she's gotta have her reasons, we've got to respect that and I love everything the Breeders have made so far.



I enjoy the Breeders a lot, from Pod to Safari to Last Splash... but...
did you actually like Title TK?



Little Fury? Off You? The She? Son Of Three? Full On Idle (Although Amps version is much better)? Sinister Foxx? Huffer?

They are all excellent tunes at least on par with the best from Last Splash and Pod

----------------------------------------
it is a wretched life and vanity is repulsive

www.myspace.com/thesexymistakes



Title TK is great, but it's not pop at all. It sounds really dry (even drier than pod), it's not a record for everybody. I dont think Frank Black himself ever made a record so unapealing for the rock'n'pop regular audience. It's really really indy, like a lot of obscure american bands. The fact that Kim was capable of giving such a minimalist and experimental record for the come back of the breeders is remarkable. I thought "Wow, she really knows where she's going".
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TRANSMARINE
* Dog in the Sand *

USA
2001 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2007 :  10:32:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by coastline

Stupid me ... I used cut and paste for the shamalama parts. I knew there were some different lines, but it was early this morning and I wasn't quite awake yet. Thanks, tgs.


Please pardon me, for these my wrongs.



Heh! You said STUPID ME.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
His name is Dalton. He's got a degree in philosophy.
-bRIAN
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Sprite
= Cult of Ray =

687 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2007 :  11:52:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The biggest change I hear is in the vocal delivery. I think thats what makes it Black Francis and not Frank Black. The kind of drawl on Threshold Apprehension or Tight Blue Rubber is shiver down the spine time in a similar way to River Euphrates or No. 13 Baby. I've not been this excited by a Frank release since TOTY.
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frankblackphx
= Cult of Ray =

USA
287 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2007 :  12:25:49  Show Profile  Visit frankblackphx's Homepage  Reply with Quote
To me it still sounds like Frank Black singing. Outside of Threshold Apprehension his voice doesn't sound that different to me than the first FB & the C's.

I think he sings on this album a lot more than he screams. Really he only screams on You Can't Break A Heart and that is the cover song on the CD. To me Lolita, Discotheque 36, Test Pilot Blues, Your Mouth Into Mine is all very Frank Black sounding.

To me the biggest difference is that he is rocking again musically. What a wonderful album.

Here I am for your judgement
When the paint grows darker still
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Jefrey
= Cult of Ray =

USA
918 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2007 :  16:17:58  Show Profile  Visit Jefrey's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by coastline

quote:
Originally posted by JefreyCoastline, what's the meaning of the song again? This album is so great if you know all the hidden trivia - I'd like to know.
Well, there's a mistake -- thinking I know anything. At any rate, Billgoodman, Llamadance and I have discussed this one in passing, and we think it's about Brood's girlfriend Nina Hagen. Nothing concrete, other than the story seems to fit, and she is from Germany, which the song makes several references to.

Here's the wiki for Nina Hagen: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nina_Hagen

The interesting line in the song is "Why'd she have to go and break our hearts?" Not sure whose hearts she broke. Maybe somebody who knows more about her can figure that out.


Please pardon me, for these my wrongs.



Hmm. Yeah, so they were involved and shot a movie in 1979, and then in 1980 she's pregnant by another man and moves to Los Angeles. Sounds like there could have been some jealousy and heartbreak there.



== jeffamerica ==

-He played piano really fuckin' good.
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Juri
- FB Fan -

USA
9 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2007 :  21:53:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by lucmove

quote:
Originally posted by jnausI enjoy the Breeders a lot, from Pod to Safari to Last Splash... but...
did you actually like Title TK?

Yes, I did, jnaus. Not their best album, of course, but I like it.

My guess is that Title TK caused in many people the same shock that Frank caused in me right after TOTY. I was so pleased with the lavishness of FB and TOTY that I took that all for granted and was terribly disappointed with CoR. And I took years to only partially appreciate FBtC and Pistolero. I still don't like CoR at all. These three records were too distant from what I had expected and I refused to accept them.

I guess that, similarly, The Breeders' Last Splash was too lively and pop-like, and people expected the same thing from Title TK. But Title TK is not that different from Pod, except that Title TK sounds a lot "older" to me. Maybe it should have been recorded some 20 years earlier. But I like it. I never skip a song when I hear it.



It's kinda funny, I love Pod,.... One of my favorite Breeders songs is 'Metal Man'. But whenever I hear Title TK, I don't have a clue what that album is about. The lyrics... they never appealed to me, maybe I didn't give it enough listens. I'll give it another try next week. Maybe not related, have you ever heard the song 'Catch' by the Throwing Muses, another brilliant song...
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