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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6214 Posts |
 Posted - 10/01/2022 : 01:35:25
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What we know (in chronical order):
- Doggerel was made with the 40 demo's/ideas that Frank (and a couple more from Joey) brought to the sessions. They had some good songs that didn't fit the record so they were put aside (acording to FBF in the French Rolling Stone)
- Paz says the band worked on 16 of the 40 songs (bass magazine interview) [12 were released on Doggerel]
- In april (source?) of 2022 the Pixies and Tom Dalgety recorded for a week in Rockfield Studios (Wales).
- One of the songs Frank liked from the demo's, but did not do during the Doggerel-sessions, that they tried to record in Wales. Bluesy, stomper song, "I enjoyed it as an acoustic demo" [...] they tried to make it bigger, better and louder, but "in the end it was just too loud", "too much information". It didn't work out, it was failure, "thank god we didn't release this because we were in a rush"
(interview on Raised on Radio)
- Joey brought some songs to the table again (working titles Howie's Garage, I hear you mary, Taking care of bid'ness, according to Uncut interview). They recorded three ideas in Rockfield (according to Under the Radar interview), maybe those three?
- Paz recorded two songs for it (according to BF in French interview)
- Frank to SPIN: [On Doggerel] "I think that’s one more writing collaboration than has appeared on any other disc in the Pixies catalog. I imagine there will be much more collaboration forthcoming. I sense it.”
- Session in Wales didn't go that well, acording to FBF in Ultimate Music Guide :
"I was not in a good mood for lots of reasons"
I was very frustrated because now Mr Fucking Producer wants to work on all the fucking artsy-fartsy scraps from the margin. I got all these 40 fucking songs I wrote, for once in my life I do my homework............Now I show up with the goods and they're like [] these werid little things that you didn't intend over here bla bla
[ ]
I threw my notebook on top of the roof [..] I threw about three temper tantrums in about eight days
- Joey in Under the Radar:
"we have recorded so far about seven or eight demos for the next album. There will be a ninth album, we’re planning that already. After a good amount of a break, we will start recording again some time next year. We’re already kicking around what part of the world to work and record in next time"
- October 2023: Pixies record a new session with Tom Dalgety at Guilford Sounds, same place were Doggerel was recorded
- Paz leaves the band in october 2023 - march 2024
- Pixies play Vegas Suite, a new song, on the Bossanova Trompe tour
- Pixies rehearse a new song, which is posted on instagram: https://fb.watch/qROLONNt-1/
- Frank Black plays a new song, which is posted on instagram:
https://fb.watch/qROQ6dvc5M/
- 11 song titles are published on the BMI website
It's here: https://pixies.tmstor.es/
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
Edited by - billgoodman on 07/24/2024 08:35:02 |
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3910 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2022 : 03:00:23
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| I predict the next album will drop on the 19th September 2025 - following a string of mediocre single promotions through the summer - but when the album drops it'll be full of great tracks |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6214 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2022 : 03:58:06
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I think second half of 2023 or early 2024 are safe bets
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
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Brank_Flack
* Dog in the Sand *
Canada
1017 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2022 : 08:38:45
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Thanks for transcribing!
Damn, I've been arguing that they need to move on from Tom after Doggerel (to be clear: loved Beneath the Eyrie), but he seemed to have been trying to push them in exactly the direction I would have wanted for LP9. I would much rather get a more "arty" experimental album than the leftovers from the previous batch, especially if they're more in line with the mid-tempo Frank Black ditties of Doggerel (nothing wrong with that per se, but I'd rather Charles use those for the solo country album, as I felt on my first listen that they are crushed under the weight of being Tom and Pixies 2.0-fied).
Edit: I enjoyed the "mid-tempo ditties" and their Pixiefied arrangements much more on the second listen. |
Edited by - Brank_Flack on 10/01/2022 15:53:35 |
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Troubles A Foot
= Cult of Ray =
USA
955 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2022 : 09:40:29
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| What a perplexing situation. Agree with Brank. |
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yarbles
= Cult of Ray =
USA
635 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2022 : 03:11:32
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| Interesting. Maybe they shouldn't record at that studio in Wales anymore... Last time they did Kim left the band a few days into the session, this time Charles has 3 temper tantrums in 8 days and things don't go that well? Don't go back to Rockfield anymore guys! |
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johnnyribcage
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1301 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2022 : 05:38:21
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Hey Bill, where can I find that interview? Is it a hard copy magazine I need to buy or is it online somewhere?
I had a bad reaction to your public hobby writings. |
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oddball
- FB Fan -
Germany
242 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2022 : 06:21:41
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I just hope what remains from the 40 songs after Doggerel isn't simply scrapped. This is some of the best song-writing from Charles and it would be a shame if it gets dumped or shelved for an extended period of time for whatever reason, producer-related or not. Maybe there's an itch to scratch involving a live to 2-track Americana style album, as was originally envisioned. Or another b-sides album.
-oddball |
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Troubles A Foot
= Cult of Ray =
USA
955 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2022 : 06:25:12
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Yeah I was dismayed in a recent interview, I believe it was Paz who said "who wants to eat leftovers?" when asked about all the songs that didn't make it.
I do. I want to eat leftovers. |
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johnnyribcage
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1301 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2022 : 06:32:05
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quote:
Originally posted by oddball
I just hope what remains from the 40 songs after Doggerel isn't simply scrapped. This is some of the best song-writing from Charles and it would be a shame if it gets dumped or shelved for an extended period of time for whatever reason, producer-related or not. Maybe there's an itch to scratch involving a live to 2-track Americana style album, as was originally envisioned. Or another b-sides album.
-oddball
That would be a catastrophe as far as I'm concerned (the leftovers getting scrapped I mean). The output has slowed dramatically since 2.0 started putting out new records. Unless I'm missing some, they've put out about 60 songs in the last 9 years (2013 through now). Compare that to '98 through '07 (FB&C's to Bluefinger) and there were 184 songs released (unless I missed a few). Edit - I definitely missed a few. I didn't count the new stuff on Christmass and Abbabubba (not sure how many of those were from after 2007 but most are earlier I think). So we're talking about over 200 songs in 9 years!
So, the idea that he sat down and pounded out 40 songs in one go, like he used to in the salad days, and that 28 of them would just end up in the trash because Tom doesn't like them or they don't fit whatever the idea of the Pixies is just depressing as hell.
I'd love for them to just take a catholics approach and forget the whole legacy thing and just record a huge messy double LP. I've been saying that for like 10 years now. It's almost certainly not going to happen though, especially with the 5th Pixie steering the ship. All that said - I love the new record. It's top notch.
I had a bad reaction to your public hobby writings. |
Edited by - johnnyribcage on 10/02/2022 06:37:32 |
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Brank_Flack
* Dog in the Sand *
Canada
1017 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2022 : 06:53:24
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| Well, if the country record is still a go, then that would mean roughly another 12 will be released, bringing the total from that batch to 25 out of 40. It's unclear whether the country record is still a go, or if the incorporation of songs originally meant for it like Human Crime into the Pixies muted his interest in pursuing it. I really hope he still does. |
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johnnyribcage
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1301 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2022 : 07:03:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Brank_Flack
Well, if the country record is still a go, then that would mean roughly another 12 will be released, bringing the total from that batch to 25 out of 40. It's unclear whether the country record is still a go, or if the incorporation of songs originally meant for it like Human Crime into the Pixies muted his interest in pursuing it. I really hope he still does.
I must have missed the talk about this country record - can you point me to the thread or interview?
I had a bad reaction to your public hobby writings. |
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Brank_Flack
* Dog in the Sand *
Canada
1017 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2022 : 07:32:52
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quote:
Originally posted by johnnyribcage
quote:
Originally posted by Brank_Flack
Well, if the country record is still a go, then that would mean roughly another 12 will be released, bringing the total from that batch to 25 out of 40. It's unclear whether the country record is still a go, or if the incorporation of songs originally meant for it like Human Crime into the Pixies muted his interest in pursuing it. I really hope he still does.
I must have missed the talk about this country record - can you point me to the thread or interview?
I had a bad reaction to your public hobby writings.
From a late-August press release: https://www.herfitzpr.net/pixies-doggerel-2022-3-bio-ex |
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Troubles A Foot
= Cult of Ray =
USA
955 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2022 : 08:06:56
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| With each new Pixies release I feel like I understand more and more why he had to break the band up in the first place and be a more under the radar solo artist, and why he'd want to put out some random country thing. I mean just imagine the pressure and all about the Pixies "legacy", even though he says he doesn't care about that. Just being a solo artist, you don't have so many eyes on you, judging you, comparing you. I'm even guilty of this because I do hold Pixies albums to a different standard than Frank's solo material, and I do kind of judge them more harshly because Pixies for me is quite a specific thing and almost entirely these new albums fail to capture that specific thing, yet if they were Frank solo albums I'd probably be more open to them. |
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Discoking
* Dog in the Sand *
Belgium
1120 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2022 : 08:10:00
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quote:
Originally posted by johnnyribcage
I'd love for them to just take a catholics approach and forget the whole legacy thing and just record a huge messy double LP.
i would be totally ok with that.
 it's educational |
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Ziggy
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
2463 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2022 : 08:44:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Troubles A Foot
Yeah I was dismayed in a recent interview, I believe it was Paz who said "who wants to eat leftovers?" when asked about all the songs that didn't make it.
I do. I want to eat leftovers.
Would be interested to read that! She did say, in the Doggerel podcast I think, that some of the Doggerel songs weren't the ones she would have initially chosen from the fabled 40 songs (although is of course very very positive about the finished record!).
There's a whole host of titles we know that reached demo stage at least that haven't ever appeared - eg'Down in Toulon', 'I Like to Drive, 'Super Lecker' (the latter albeit with a couple of live airings).
Then there are the Indie Cindy era lost songs - 'Alice Prin', 'Tranquilise Me', 'Rats Alive', 'Banks of the Drain' etc. |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6214 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2022 : 08:52:08
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quote:
Originally posted by johnnyribcage
Hey Bill, where can I find that interview? Is it a hard copy magazine I need to buy or is it online somewhere?
I had a bad reaction to your public hobby writings.
The Ultimate Music Guide by Uncut
It's full of Pixies articles from 1987 to 2022
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6214 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2022 : 08:54:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Ziggy
quote:
Originally posted by Troubles A Foot
Yeah I was dismayed in a recent interview, I believe it was Paz who said "who wants to eat leftovers?" when asked about all the songs that didn't make it.
I do. I want to eat leftovers.
Would be interested to read that! She did say, in the Doggerel podcast I think, that some of the Doggerel songs weren't the ones she would have initially chosen from the fabled 40 songs (although is of course very very positive about the finished record!).
There's a whole host of titles we know that reached demo stage at least that haven't ever appeared - eg'Down in Toulon', 'I Like to Drive, 'Super Lecker' (the latter albeit with a couple of live airings).
Then there are the Indie Cindy era lost songs - 'Alice Prin', 'Tranquilise Me', 'Rats Alive', 'Banks of the Drain' etc.
She did indeed. Of all the band members she was the most upfront about it. Will check another old interview where she says something like that.
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3910 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2022 : 08:54:38
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| I'm struggling to figure out what's so "Americana" about Human Crime? |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6214 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2022 : 08:58:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Discoking
quote:
Originally posted by johnnyribcage
I'd love for them to just take a catholics approach and forget the whole legacy thing and just record a huge messy double LP.
i would be totally ok with that.
it's educational
Like Purgatory/Paradise by Throwing Muses
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6214 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2022 : 09:00:46
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quote:
Originally posted by billgoodman
quote:
Originally posted by Ziggy
quote:
Originally posted by Troubles A Foot
Yeah I was dismayed in a recent interview, I believe it was Paz who said "who wants to eat leftovers?" when asked about all the songs that didn't make it.
I do. I want to eat leftovers.
Would be interested to read that! She did say, in the Doggerel podcast I think, that some of the Doggerel songs weren't the ones she would have initially chosen from the fabled 40 songs (although is of course very very positive about the finished record!).
There's a whole host of titles we know that reached demo stage at least that haven't ever appeared - eg'Down in Toulon', 'I Like to Drive, 'Super Lecker' (the latter albeit with a couple of live airings).
Then there are the Indie Cindy era lost songs - 'Alice Prin', 'Tranquilise Me', 'Rats Alive', 'Banks of the Drain' etc.
She did indeed. Of all the band members she was the most upfront about it. Will check another old interview where she says something like that.
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
https://www.festicket.com/nl/magazine/interviews/pixies-interview-2022/
In the two years since you recorded Beneath The Eyrie, can you pinpoint the main creative shift within the band and how did it shape Doggerel?
"To be honest, no one knew what the hell was happening with the pandemic - whether we'd all see each other again, whether the world would end... So it wasn't really until a month before we scheduled to start recording that Charles [Frank Black/Black Francis] started writing songs and then put about 40 demos together. Then our producer Tom [Dalgety], whose third record it is working with Pixies, and mine - listened to them and helped choose the fourteen that'd make the album. It was a very different approach, as we usually have some demos to kickstart the recording sessions and write in the studio together. It'd be way more loose.
For Doggerel it was definitely more tailored. Tom chose his 'batch of cookies', some of which I wouldn't have chosen, but quickly we all saw what he envisaged for the record which helped us guide us through the process. At this point, Tom has an incredibly good idea of what we're like as musicians. He knows how to communicate with us individually based on our abilities, and pulls the best out of us. That approach was perfect for this record, but it's taken time to get to this level together."
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
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Bedbug
> Teenager of the Year <
3146 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2022 : 09:06:17
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I think if you're going to serve someone leftovers you are going to want to make sure they will like it, and since the 4 main courses of the 2.0 albums haven't gotten Michelin stars, maybe they don't want to take that chance?
And I realize that most people would give the highest marks to the BTE demos, but didn't Ziggy or someone say the band didn't even have any awareness that anybody even liked them or knew they existed? |
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johnnyribcage
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1301 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2022 : 09:29:53
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quote:
Originally posted by pot
I'm struggling to figure out what's so "Americana" about Human Crime?
There’s no telling what it was like in its original demo incarnation. Might have been an acoustic waltz for all we know.
I had a bad reaction to your public hobby writings. |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6214 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2022 : 09:49:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Bedbug
I think if you're going to serve someone leftovers you are going to want to make sure they will like it, and since the 4 main courses of the 2.0 albums haven't gotten Michelin stars, maybe they don't want to take that chance?
And I realize that most people would give the highest marks to the BTE demos, but didn't Ziggy or someone say the band didn't even have any awareness that anybody even liked them or knew they existed?
But with them putting two songs together on Nomatterday and removing lyrics from one song to put in another on Doggerel (titel track), I think they can use everything from the other demo's and just make something new out of them.
I want them to work fast. Need more of this!
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
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johnnyribcage
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1301 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2022 : 11:31:59
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So we were all thinking Album 9 would maybe be hot on the heals of this one since they went right back into the studio with those extra songs. Based on your transcription of Charles’ description of the way that went, I’m guessing all bets are off, including with Dalgety? Or did they kiss and make up? I know you said Dave and Joey made it seem they’re still working on it but we don’t know of any sessions right?
I had a bad reaction to your public hobby writings. |
Edited by - johnnyribcage on 10/02/2022 11:40:17 |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6214 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2022 : 11:47:09
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No, but I think it's great that they mentioned working on the next one
Good sign
I don't think a legendary studio like Rockfield is cheap
So I guess they got some results they will at least try to keep
Pure speculation
But even SSMVGD found its way to B-sides
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
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Jason
* Dog in the Sand *
1446 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2022 : 12:09:42
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I find the "artsy-fartsy" quote in the OP to be so murky that I don't know what to read into it. "I was not in a good mood for a lot of reasons" sounds like he might have had something going on in his life that was bothering him during the session, but I have no idea. Does he not like the songs? The process? Was he going through personal shit? I can't tell.
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Brank_Flack
* Dog in the Sand *
Canada
1017 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2022 : 12:17:15
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quote:
Originally posted by johnnyribcage
I know you said Dave and Joey made it seem they’re still working on it but we don’t know of any sessions right?
I had a bad reaction to your public hobby writings.
They mention in that interview that Charles wants the band to do some demoes soon. Could be that they're starting over, could be that they'll supplement the tracks. I haven't seen any other mention of the Wales sessions since, other than the Uncut quotes billgoodman shared. |
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Ziggy
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
2463 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2022 : 13:02:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Bedbug
I think if you're going to serve someone leftovers you are going to want to make sure they will like it, and since the 4 main courses of the 2.0 albums haven't gotten Michelin stars, maybe they don't want to take that chance?
And I realize that most people would give the highest marks to the BTE demos, but didn't Ziggy or someone say the band didn't even have any awareness that anybody even liked them or knew they existed?
The band did seem a bit surprised to hear that when I met them. That said, I imagine they're not terribly involved in what gets released as 'additional content', as BF put it. Plus, it had been the best part of three years since release!
There was a nice moment where Joey reminisced how they recorded the 'fighter jets' guitar part (using his first 'try out' take) for 'I Just Can't Break It To You'. |
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TheScooper
- FB Fan -
USA
187 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2022 : 14:22:18
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If Good Works of Cyrus and Super Lecker are Dalgety "leftovers" then I have a feeling a record of just Dalgety rejects would be fucking awesome (especially when Might As Well Be Gone and Thunder and Lightning are Dalgety approved).
I've always wanted to hear Rats Alive based on nothing but the title |
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Troubles A Foot
= Cult of Ray =
USA
955 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2022 : 14:29:59
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Yeah I've basically been convinced that Dalgety has opposite music tastes as me and is leaving off all of my favorite songs.
But the thing is even if you like what Dalgety does...don't you feel like it's time to shake things up? Doggerel and BTE seem like solid albums but it feels like we're kind of stuck in something. I like the idea of doing some sort of double disc or just something more messy and not just here's another 12 or so very very well produced rock songs. And I think to do that they'd have to get away from Dalgety. Dalgety seems very intent on molding and shaping the Pixies catalogue into very digestible albums...which on one level works...but it's kinda boring? |
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Brank_Flack
* Dog in the Sand *
Canada
1017 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2022 : 16:26:50
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quote:
Originally posted by TheScooper
If Good Works of Cyrus and Super Lecker are Dalgety "leftovers" then I have a feeling a record of just Dalgety rejects would be fucking awesome (especially when Might As Well Be Gone and Thunder and Lightning are Dalgety approved).
I've always wanted to hear Rats Alive based on nothing but the title
I think this might be a bit overstated - we have about 15 seconds of a live Super Lecker, and doesn't exactly jump out. I agree Good Works of Cyrus is a great tune, but I can't see it fitting on the more brooding Beneath the Eyrie. I'm happy with having it on the demos disk, which I like and appreciate, but think those demoes are overrated around these parts (again, nice, fun, loose tunes - but the best material of the 2.0 material as others are claiming? I just don't see it.). I'm pretty sure he more or less made the right call on what was included on BTE.
Still, I would definitely be intriuged to hear some of the songs Paz would have included, as I imagine her tastes are more similar to mine than Tom's.
After three listens of Doggerel, I do have to say that I am happy with the job Tom did. Not all the decisions that I would have made or the directions I would have pursued, but it is a strong LP. Like Trouble says, I would still be happy to see them get a fresh voice in for the next one - or, as in the original post, to have Tom deliberately mix things up to push them in a more 'artsy' direction. I do suspect, however, that I am more okay with well produced, digestible albums than some - especially given that, as was pointed out in the Doggerel thread, we're lucky to be getting any new material from Charles at all, who I imagine would do fine raking in dollars from Pixies oldies shows while being creatively satisfied with his painting after having written and recorded many hundreds of songs. |
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Bedbug
> Teenager of the Year <
3146 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2022 : 17:08:54
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The interviewer should have followed up with Paz.
“Which songs did you wish were included Paz?” |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6214 Posts |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6214 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2022 : 01:35:11
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BTW that interview is also another proof of Richard deciding when albums are made.
Black Francis will work if the manager says a studio is booked.
I don't really believe him, but he keeps on saying that. It was also a big part of the last podcast.
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6214 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2022 : 01:42:36
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Other great quotes:
- we can make an album in a month (writing, two weeks of recording, and then mixing)
- they just like Tom. They met for diner and within 5 minutes they knew it would work. Without hearing his stuff
- Tom doesn't like country per se, he likes aggressive music, but the songs are what came out
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
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The Night The Zombies Came
