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blackpurse
= Cult of Ray =
USA
299 Posts |
 Posted - 11/11/2003 : 21:26:40
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quote:
Originally posted by apl4eris
Sure. This topic interests me, as I imagine I'll be needing to know as much as possible about breastfeeding benefits, etc. in the next few years, if I finally decide to have a baby :)
I'm fairly passionate/informed about the benefits of BF. Good ol La Leche league is always there with info and support. Many people say they're radical, but their info is good and they do provide valuable support. There's also good support and links to studies and info at askDrSears.com, and iVillage has a wonderful support board too.
You need the support the first few weeks. I think more would choose and stick with BF if people were straight with them from the get go: "It's hard to get started. When it's three in the morning and your tits are burning from constant nursing a 5 day old who hasn't got hte hang of latching on well and you dont' think he's getting enough and you just want to sleep, that bottle of formula that the hospital sent you home with looks awful tempting." All the lit out there implies that its easy, natural and that you should get it just like that. No, its hard, it takes practice and work, and a lot of phone calls to the lactation consultant. And the formula companies do everything they can to sabotage it, from sending you home from the hospital with their stuff, to emblazoning their name on every goddamn baby product and scale you see in every doctors office, and I'm certain they fight BF rights legislation secretely every chance they get. Do your research now and hang in there when you do have a kid, so when you've just had another sleepless night in the early weeks, you can remind yourself that sleeplessness would have happened breast or bottle. Oh, and how you'll save some $3000 a year on formula, not to mention the health and psychological benefits.
"Sacred cows make the best burgers!" |
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gracie
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
573 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2003 : 10:03:33
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It hurts? really, i had no idea. I thought the baby just sucked and that was it, easy.
Sorry Blackpurse, that probably really pisses you off if you have tits that are burning but it goes to show that your point about unrealistic expectations is correct.
Women are lead to believe that its easy so when it turns out to be difficult they figure that they're just really bad at it and stop.
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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2003 : 10:15:53
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| it hurts and its really really messy too (well at least at first). |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2003 : 10:17:15
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Thanks very much for the advice, blackpurse! I had some inkling of what to expect, having watched my mother and stepmother have 6 babies starting when I was 10. One of a few reasons I'm still skittish about having my own. I changed a lot of diapers and did way too much babysitting - I'm afraid they took a little advantage and turned me into an au pair ;)
I had forgotten about the pain in the beginning, but I do know that once they start developing teeth it really gets to be a royal pain in the breast! How do you cope with the lack of sleep? Is your baby a wailer? Does your family (eg. mother) help out with advice or whatever? The whole thing just seems so huge to me. Huge and overwhelming. Especialy once they are about 8 years old, and society creeps into the mix. Sorry, don't mean to spook ya! :) I guess you just have to take it as it comes?
 "I partied with the Cult of Frank / Bob ate all the dip" |
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blackpurse
= Cult of Ray =
USA
299 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2003 : 10:20:04
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quote:
Originally posted by gracie
It hurts? really, i had no idea. I thought the baby just sucked and that was it, easy.
Sorry Blackpurse, that probably really pisses you off if you have tits that are burning but it goes to show that your point about unrealistic expectations is correct.
Women are lead to believe that its easy so when it turns out to be difficult they figure that they're just really bad at it and stop.
Let me be clear. It hurts at first. Like anything you're going to use repeatedly, you have to build up your callouses (now, you don't exactly get callouses on your tits, but you do have to get them used to it). Once that's done, actually, frankly, it feels really really good. There's a hormone released duing it that relaxes you and its a great, wonderful, mellow time. If it always hurt, the species would have died out of starvation by now!!!
"Sacred cows make the best burgers!" |
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blackpurse
= Cult of Ray =
USA
299 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2003 : 10:23:42
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quote:
Originally posted by apl4eris
Thanks very much for the advice, blackpurse! I had some inkling of what to expect, having watched my mother and stepmother have 6 babies starting when I was 10. One of a few reasons I'm still skittish about having my own. I changed a lot of diapers and did way too much babysitting - I'm afraid they took a little advantage and turned me into an au pair ;)
I had forgotten about the pain in the beginning, but I do know that once they start developing teeth it really gets to be a royal pain in the breast! How do you cope with the lack of sleep? Is your baby a wailer? Does your family (eg. mother) help out with advice or whatever? The whole thing just seems so huge to me. Huge and overwhelming. Especialy once they are about 8 years old, and society creeps into the mix. Sorry, don't mean to spook ya! :) I guess you just have to take it as it comes?
"I partied with the Cult of Frank / Bob ate all the dip"
Brian's mom (mine is deceased) has been a wonderful help. It is huge. And the lack of sleep is overwhelming. BUT....
Having a baby is one of those times in your life when you feel almost divine -- you finally realize that you are capable of that highest of human capabilities: total, complete and unconditional love. Because if you didn't have unconditional love, you certainly wouldn't put up with all this shit!
Seriously, when baby smiles at you for the first time, you forget everything. The good times, I honestly believe, make up for the bad.
"Sacred cows make the best burgers!" |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2003 : 10:27:17
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You make a very compelling argument in the case for "baby". baby smiles. -sigh- meep! But what about when they aren't babies anymore? Oh the uncertainty! I am officially scared of my own hormones now. Thank you. :)
"I partied with the Cult of Frank / Bob ate all the dip" |
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Hordak
- FB Fan -
USA
180 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2003 : 10:28:54
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I read somewhere of isolated instances in which kids would breastfeed until they were like, 3 or 4, and in some cases 9 or 10 years old. I can't imagine how that could happen.
My wife has a split personality, and I hate both of them.
-- Anon |
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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2003 : 10:37:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Hordak
I read somewhere of isolated instances in which kids would breastfeed until they were like, 3 or 4, and in some cases 9 or 10 years old. I can't imagine how that could happen.
My wife has a split personality, and I hate both of them.
-- Anon
Oooooo, I had a summer job at a psychologists' firm, it was entertaining to say the least, but one lady came in with her 6 year old, sat down and breastfed him right there. I was quite shocked, the shrink told me later that she actually pulls him out of school for 20 min at a time to do it, she also said she thinks nothing is wrong with that. |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5452 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2003 : 10:46:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Hordak
I read somewhere of isolated instances in which kids would breastfeed until they were like, 3 or 4, and in some cases 9 or 10 years old. I can't imagine how that could happen.
My wife has a split personality, and I hate both of them.
-- Anon
My daughter breastfeed for 3+ years and my son probably will as well. We had a weaning party for her when it was time and the transition was rather smooth. She's now a healthy, smart, fairly well adjusted kid.
People will spend ridiculous money buying their kids educational toys and videos, sending their kids to high-scale preschools and camps, but then they can't be bothered to feed their kids what is best for them (breast milk). |
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glacial906
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1738 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2003 : 10:49:59
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I don't guess there's anything WRONG with it, but it does strike me as a little strange...
My daughter didn't breastfeed, but she's already being weaned off the bottle, and usually drinks out of a sippy cup now.
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe.
Carl Sagan
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5452 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2003 : 11:31:42
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quote:
Originally posted by glacial906
I don't guess there's anything WRONG with it, but it does strike me as a little strange...
Why? Because it's not typical? Would it make a difference that other cultures nurse longer? As blackpurse pointed out (in a different context) why is it weird to continue to feed our kid human milk rather wean them onto cow milk and of its associated hormones.
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2003 : 11:37:14
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"why is it weird to continue to feed our kid human milk rather wean them onto cow milk and of its associated hormones."
Because at a certain point a person's intimacy with a breast becomes something else, becuase of sexual/superego development. People disagree on the age that this level of intimacy becomes "uncomfortable".
"I partied with the Cult of Frank / Bob ate all the dip" |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5452 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2003 : 11:52:07
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quote:
Originally posted by apl4eris
"why is it weird to continue to feed our kid human milk rather wean them onto cow milk and of its associated hormones."
Because at a certain point a person's intimacy with a breast becomes something else, becuase of sexual/superego development. People disagree on the age that this level of intimacy becomes "uncomfortable".
Uncomfortable for who? Sure at some point it would seem inappropriate to me. But, I have no problem with my 3 year old feeling a special comfort and familiarity with her mother. Screw whoever is uncomfortable with that. I use to feel a bit uncomfortable when my wife nursed in public, but now I get a kick out of her boldness.
I tend to not believe what I think is psychological mumbo-jumbo, because it is usual so divorced from biological realities and is stuffed full social norms and political agendas (such as female orgasms being abnormal and hysterectomies being needed). Freud was an ass. |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2003 : 11:54:34
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Not talking about Freud. Talking about sexual and mental development. Chill out a little, willya ;)
I am saying that for anybody, breastfeeding you baby at the age of 4, 5, 6, 9 *anywhere* is uncomfortable. I don't give a shit about public breastfeeding or worrying about others' comfort levels. I think you are misunderstanding my point.
"I partied with the Cult of Frank / Bob ate all the dip" |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2003 : 12:19:09
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The point is that it is a form of dependance on the mother for the child, and that it is the parents' responsibility to allow their children to grow up and be independant - not having to take 20 mins. out of school to be breastfed by their mom a couple times a day. Even animals know that the child has to be weened at some point to allow it to survive independantly.
I personally think that it is poor parenting to continue to breastfeed so late in a child's development and probably is a sign of some sort of abandonment/attachment complex on the part of the parent. And it certainly cannot be mentally healthy for the child if only because of the inevitable ostracizing (sp?) that is going to take place at the hands of their peers.
But that's all in my opinion and I am neither a parent nor a doctor, so what do I really know in the end.
 "Join the Cult of Frank / And you'll be enlightened" |
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Brackish Girl
~ Soul Eater ~
Ireland
1750 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2003 : 12:20:32
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quote:
Originally posted by blackpurse
Let me be clear. It hurts at first. Like anything you're going to use repeatedly, you have to build up your callouses (now, you don't exactly get callouses on your tits, but you do have to get them used to it). Once that's done, actually, frankly, it feels really really good. There's a hormone released duing it that relaxes you and its a great, wonderful, mellow time. If it always hurt, the species would have died out of starvation by now!!!
isn't it supposed to help if yer tits are tanned? i mean, the skin would be stronger...*ahem*
 "I joined the Cult of Trippy/...what was i singing again???" |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5452 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2003 : 12:21:54
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quote:
Originally posted by apl4eris
Not talking about Freud. Talking about sexual and mental development.
When you talk about superego, aren't you talking Freud? Like I said I don't pay much attention or know much about psychology.
quote:
Chill out a little, willya ;)
Don't be rude. I haven't been attacking you or giving you unsolicted advice. And, the little face doesn't change the words.
quote:
I am saying that for anybody, breastfeeding you baby at the age of 4, 5, 6, 9 *anywhere* is uncomfortable. I don't give a shit about public breastfeeding or worrying about others' comfort levels. I think you are misunderstanding my point.
Uncomfortable for anyone? I still don't understand. Uncomfortable for my wife? No. She chose to do it and she ultimately chose to end it when she thought it was time. Uncomfortable for my daughter? No. She would have continued to do it without other prompting her to wean. Uncomfortable for some stranger walking by? Maybe. |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2003 : 12:25:38
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I really don't understand why you are being aggressive - Those words weren't rude or meant to be. I never said I thought that breastfeeding at age 3 was uncomfortable. I am very sorry that you misunderstood me. I thought we were debating breastfeeding at the age of 9 like in the story Carolynanna related up there, not getting personal. Please don't be upset.
"I partied with the Cult of Frank / Bob ate all the dip" |
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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2003 : 12:33:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Brackish Girl
quote:
Originally posted by blackpurse
isn't it supposed to help if yer tits are tanned? i mean, the skin would be stronger...*ahem*
"I joined the Cult of Trippy/...what was i singing again???"
Good lord Jessie 
Think nipples.... |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2003 : 12:41:57
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I know I am!
"Join the Cult of Frank / And you'll be enlightened" |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2003 : 12:42:21
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Also, maybe one could get tattooed, little 13s on the nipples? That could toughen em up, perhaps :)
"I partied with the Cult of Frank / Bob ate all the dip" |
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Brackish Girl
~ Soul Eater ~
Ireland
1750 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2003 : 12:44:14
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well, all in the name of babies!
"I joined the Cult of Trippy/...what was i singing again???" |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5452 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2003 : 12:47:31
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quote:
Originally posted by apl4eris
I really don't understand why you are being aggressive - Those words weren't rude or meant to be. I never said I thought that breastfeeding at age 3 was uncomfortable. I am very sorry that you misunderstood me. I thought we were debating breastfeeding at the age of 9 like in the story Carolynanna related up there, not getting personal. Please don't be upset.
"I partied with the Cult of Frank / Bob ate all the dip"
I don't think I'm being aggressive. What was aggressive? Calling Freud an ass? Is that more aggressive than telling someone to chill out?
And you did say that at 4 years old (not 9) breastfeeding is uncomfortable for anybody. I don't think a universal statement like that can be correct. |
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Brackish Girl
~ Soul Eater ~
Ireland
1750 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2003 : 12:49:53
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and car, c'mon, have you never said tits? say it with me, "tits..."
"I joined the Cult of Trippy/...what was i singing again???" |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2003 : 13:00:58
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quote:
Originally posted by darwin
quote:
Originally posted by apl4eris
I really don't understand why you are being aggressive - Those words weren't rude or meant to be. I never said I thought that breastfeeding at age 3 was uncomfortable. I am very sorry that you misunderstood me. I thought we were debating breastfeeding at the age of 9 like in the story Carolynanna related up there, not getting personal. Please don't be upset.
"I partied with the Cult of Frank / Bob ate all the dip"
I don't think I'm being aggressive. What was aggressive? Calling Freud an ass? Is that more aggressive than telling someone to chill out? And you did say that at 4 years old (not 9) breastfeeding is uncomfortable for anybody. I don't think a universal statement like that can be correct.
No, you said I was being rude. I really don't know what else to say other than I am sorry any offense was taken. Also, I am not claiming to be an expert here. This all seems to stem from you seeing "chill out willya" as some kind of offensive remark - I already explained that it was not at all meant in a negative fashion, but as a friendly conversational idiom. I have said I am sorry you misunderstood - that's all I know to do....
"I partied with the Cult of Frank / Bob ate all the dip" |
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glacial906
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1738 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2003 : 13:00:59
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Darwin, you sound as though you are too adamant about defending the position that it's okay for your wife to breastfeed your 3 or 4 year old child -- no one's disputing that. Everyone has different methods and definition of what's appropriate or within their comfort zone. I've read an article somewhere about some tribe in Africa or somewhere where the mothers will play with their infant son's genitals; it's supposedly not supposed to be sexual or anything, just some kind of bonding experience. Now, read closely, I'm not saying that your wife breastfeeding your children at age 3 or 4 or whatever age your child is is NEARLY that extreme, my citing that is just to provide some evidence that people's opinions about what is appropriate varies widely.
Personally I don't understand why people have such a big hang-up about seeing a woman's breasts anyway, they're a natural part of her body and it is ridiculous to me the restrictions they have on for instance, showing a breast on tv or women breastfeeding in public. I don't have a problem with seeing a woman breastfeed (other than the socially learned automatic reaction I would have to avert my gaze) or a woman breastfeeding a 3 or 4 year old child, it's just different than what I'm used to.
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe.
Carl Sagan
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Brackish Girl
~ Soul Eater ~
Ireland
1750 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2003 : 13:27:01
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lets just all say 'tits' together, to relieve the tension.
(not 'tits together' though...)
"I joined the Cult of Trippy/...what was i singing again???" |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5452 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2003 : 13:29:05
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quote:
Originally posted by glacial906
Darwin, you sound as though you are too adamant about defending the position that it's okay for your wife to breastfeed your 3 or 4 year old child -- no one's disputing that. Everyone has different methods and definition of what's appropriate or within their comfort zone. I've read an article somewhere about some tribe in Africa or somewhere where the mothers will play with their infant son's genitals; it's supposedly not supposed to be sexual or anything, just some kind of bonding experience. Now, read closely, I'm not saying that your wife breastfeeding your children at age 3 or 4 or whatever age your child is is NEARLY that extreme, my citing that is just to provide some evidence that people's opinions about what is appropriate varies widely.
Personally I don't understand why people have such a big hang-up about seeing a woman's breasts anyway, they're a natural part of her body and it is ridiculous to me the restrictions they have on for instance, showing a breast on tv or women breastfeeding in public. I don't have a problem with seeing a woman breastfeed (other than the socially learned automatic reaction I would have to avert my gaze) or a woman breastfeeding a 3 or 4 year old child, it's just different than what I'm used to.
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe.
Carl Sagan
I think I'm being civil and not overly adamant, but you are the one that said that my family's behavior was "a little strange". I think calling something strange is a bit judgemental. It has more of a negative spin to it than "unusual" or "different". No? |
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Brackish Girl
~ Soul Eater ~
Ireland
1750 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2003 : 13:35:26
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"TITS!"
"I joined the Cult of Trippy/...what was i singing again???" |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2003 : 13:45:04
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tits. ? ok, I'm a dork who's had no sleep - I just said "tits" out loud.
Glad I work from home! ;)
"I partied with the Cult of Frank / Bob ate all the dip" |
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glacial906
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1738 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2003 : 13:50:21
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Apologies, Darwin, poor choice of words on my part. I didn't mean "strange" in a negative way but I guess that's how it came out...
tits..?
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe.
Carl Sagan
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Brackish Girl
~ Soul Eater ~
Ireland
1750 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2003 : 13:50:44
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jennifer, you rock.
"I joined the Cult of Trippy/...what was i singing again???" |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2003 : 14:00:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Brackish Girl
jennifer, you rock.
"I joined the Cult of Trippy/...what was i singing again???"
durnit, you made me blush - but thank you!
"I partied with the Cult of Frank / Bob ate all the dip" |
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Brackish Girl
~ Soul Eater ~
Ireland
1750 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2003 : 14:14:18
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well, you do. its a fact.
"I joined the Cult of Trippy/...what was i singing again???" |
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