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The King Of Karaoke
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3759 Posts |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
 Posted - 08/25/2004 : 19:12:44
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I'm glad and also sad that there are others worrying about this too. We're fucked, man. This is the gestapo, no bones about it.
People are being subpoenaed, brought in and held for ....questioning.
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VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2004 : 20:35:22
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Wow. That's really disturbing.
Constitution? What Constitution?
Cattle in Korea / They can really moo. |
Edited by - VoVat on 08/25/2004 20:36:29 |
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vilainde
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Niue
7443 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2004 : 02:20:04
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How fucked up is that?
Denis
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Mroocore
- FB Fan -
USA
177 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2004 : 07:21:27
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...another fatal side effect of allowing capitalism to purchase democracy.
and yes, we are fucked. |
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BLT
> Teenager of the Year <
South Sandwich Islands
4204 Posts |
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VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2004 : 12:37:19
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I really can't understand how anyone can still support Bush and his cronies.
Cattle in Korea / They can really moo. |
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mattb
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
474 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2004 : 13:03:17
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quote:
Originally posted by VoVat
I really can't understand how anyone can still support Bush and his cronies.
Cattle in Korea / They can really moo.
Get them to stop watching CNN and Fox news and there might be a chance they won't. I wish everyone in the US could watch Canadian or any other foreign news for just one day.
-----------------------
http://www.broszkowski.com |
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KimStanleyRobinson
* Dog in the Sand *
1972 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2004 : 14:56:36
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quote:
Originally posted by mattb
quote:
Originally posted by VoVat
I really can't understand how anyone can still support Bush and his cronies.
Get them to stop watching CNN and Fox news and there might be a chance they won't. I wish everyone in the US could watch Canadian or any other foreign news for just one day.
Its so polarized. The Fox and AM radio righties all believe that the left is being brainswashed by NPR. They actually think they are getting fair, balanced reporting from FOX.
Its nuts, and they're nuts.
If people would just get up and out from in front of their televisions, so much would change.
A interesting thing happened recently. I had come to pick up my son at his grandmother's - his mother's mother. The TV was on - she was watching the nightly news - national - don't remember the network.
They went to commercial. There was about 4 or 5 drug commercials in a row - "Try the Blue Pill!" "Nexium - its not just for breakfast anymore..." you know how they are - sweet music, idyllic actors, beautiful scenes. Insidiuous.
Anyway, this started a short discussion..I ended up asking this 50-something (my son's 'nana') if she took anything. She said no, she stays away from drugs unless she really needs them. We talk about the merits of this...go back to staring dumbfounded at the TV.
After the 4 or 5 drug commercials (now - mind you, this is ALL that played during this commercial break - drug commercials), we see a blurb for the morning news program for the next day - you know - the 'Good Morning America' type thing. What do you think was the main story for the next day?
Yeah.
You guessed it.
"Is there are problem with prescription drug addiction in America? Are Americans too dependent on prescription drugs?"
Beautiful.
Money, power, oil, drugs......TELEVISION!!!!
STOP WATCHING TELEVISION PEOPLE!!!!!!
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Edited by - KimStanleyRobinson on 08/26/2004 15:33:28 |
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VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2004 : 15:27:32
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I don't think it's fair to judge all TV based on the merits (or lack thereof) of FOX News and the like.
People claim that the media spin things to make Bush look dumb and/or evil. I think he does a good enough job of that on his own. I don't need any liberal media to tell me that Bush is a religious zealot, a warmonger, an anti-intellectual, and a homophobe. In fact, he seems to be PROUD of these things.
Cattle in Korea / They can really moo. |
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n/a
deleted
4894 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2004 : 16:15:45
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He should have it printed on a T shirt.
He's not a popular man really
 I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
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Daisy Girl
~ Abstract Brain ~
Belize
5305 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2004 : 22:51:40
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| wow instead of 2004 it is seeming more like 1984. thanks for filling me in. |
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Newo
~ Abstract Brain ~
Spain
2674 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2004 : 05:03:39
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We´re partying like it´s 1939 too.
-Owen |
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PsychicTwin
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1772 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2004 : 08:14:09
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c'mon everyone, Bush is doing the work of God Almighty. how could you question THAT?
You gotta trust a man who runs a country according to his fervent religious beliefs. The man is a bonafide aristocrat
(four more years of this shit and we are sooo screwed) |
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BLT
> Teenager of the Year <
South Sandwich Islands
4204 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2004 : 08:24:03
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| However I don't believe for a minute that Bush is making all the decisions. There are people behind him pushing the buttons. Who they are, I don't know. |
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The King Of Karaoke
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3759 Posts |
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Erebus
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1834 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2004 : 09:12:56
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| Can it be possible that I am the only one here who realizes that we know next to nothing about just what is motivating the FBI? What is clear is that folks posting here have no need for another side to the issue. No, they're quite content to slam away in the most extreme terms so long as they think the info supports their prejudices. |
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Erebus
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1834 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2004 : 09:20:02
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quote:
Originally posted by mattb
quote:
Originally posted by VoVat
I really can't understand how anyone can still support Bush and his cronies.
Cattle in Korea / They can really moo.
Get them to stop watching CNN and Fox news and there might be a chance they won't. I wish everyone in the US could watch Canadian or any other foreign news for just one day.
Am I correct in believing that Fox News is banned in Canada? If so, what does that say about the open-mindedness of Canadians and about the confidence of the Canadian government and press that their own propaganda ministry can withstand alternative views?
http://www.proudtobecanadian.ca/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=898&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1
"When, I wondered, will we get Fox News in Canada?
The answer may be never.
The CRTC does not think it wise to allow such stuff on Canadian television.
It might threaten "the Canadian way," disturb our "distinct Canadian viewpoint," imperil the whole Canadian psyche, causing voters in metro Toronto to do strange things -- like vote Tory.
So we are being sheltered from subversive conservatism.
The government's newspaper, the Globe and Mail, assures us that only the more imbecilic Americans watch Fox News."
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2004 : 09:23:07
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Erebus, maybe you are assuming that I think things would be any different with a "Democrat" in office? If that is the case, please don't assume, because I don't think it makes for a very healthy debate.
I see it as more of a good cop bad cop situation. I like smaller government. The activities going on right now are following the (to my mind and others') unconstitutional portions of the Patriot Act, and other provisions associated with it. They are indicative of a government that has been given too much power in the name of security. |
Edited by - apl4eris on 08/27/2004 09:38:22 |
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Erebus
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1834 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2004 : 09:40:49
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apl, no, I was not at all thinking in terms of the parties. What I meant is that is entirely possible that what the FBI is doing is prudent and justifiable, but that so far all we have heard are complaints from those with no love for the administration, to put it mildly.
I am not so sure that the ratio of power to security is as out of whack as you suggest.
Funny how you and I sometimes seem to misunderstand one another. For example, I sincerely don't understand what "assumption" you think I might be making. I simply meant that there is clearly an untold side to this story and that despite that omission many people here seem eager to draw conclusions. |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2004 : 09:50:20
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I don't think I misunderstood you.
quote:
Originally posted by Erebus
What is clear is that folks posting here have no need for another side to the issue. No, they're quite content to slam away in the most extreme terms so long as they think the info supports their prejudices.
I don't have a prejudice, and you just reitterated that people are making assumptions based on their political leanings.
quote:
Originally posted by Erebus
What I meant is that...so far all we have heard are complaints from those with no love for the administration, to put it mildly.
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Ebb Vicious
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1162 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2004 : 09:52:41
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| to me the term "activist" makes me think of someone who is conceited and is possibly dellusioned into thinking he actually makes a difference. |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2004 : 10:08:55
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you're right ebb. it's better just to do nothing and hope things will change on their own.
ist es möglich für ein quesadilla skrotum zu lecken? beim sprechen der quesadillas von LBF, ja. ja in der tatheheheheheheehehee! |
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BLT
> Teenager of the Year <
South Sandwich Islands
4204 Posts |
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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2004 : 10:46:06
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What exactly do you mean when you say "difference" ebb?
"The things that will destroy us are:
politics without principle; pleasure without conscience; wealth without work;
knowledge without character; business without morality; science without humanity,
and worship without sacrifice." |
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Daisy Girl
~ Abstract Brain ~
Belize
5305 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2004 : 10:57:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Erebus
Can it be possible that I am the only one here who realizes that we know next to nothing about just what is motivating the FBI? What is clear is that folks posting here have no need for another side to the issue. No, they're quite content to slam away in the most extreme terms so long as they think the info supports their prejudices.
Honestly... I think your view point is interesting. Actually the way I see the issue is that I am pro freedom of speech and anti big brother...but maybe I am a little complacent and a little too content in accepting the loss of civil librities because I feel pretty powerless. I didn't frame this in a partisan context. Also it makes me wonder if this is building into another 1968 DNC... so it's not political.
Ebb.. I bet some are pretty selfish. But the way I look at protesters is I might not agree with what they are protesting... eg anti-choice activists... they could even protest the Pixies music...but I support all those protesters right to do so as long as it's non violent. It's just cool someone cares enough to protest. |
Edited by - Daisy Girl on 08/27/2004 11:21:41 |
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VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2004 : 12:24:03
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quote:
Am I correct in believing that Fox News is banned in Canada?
And Rupert Murdoch is Australian or something, isn't he?
It's certainly possible that these people really DID have a reason to be investigated, and they're leaving out that part of the story. On the other hand, don't the Patriot Act and other unconstitutional laws allow the FBI to investigate people even when they DON'T suspect anything? Besides, if the Constitution is ignored for people who really are doing something wrong, that can start a slippery slope.
Cattle in Korea / They can really moo. |
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Mroocore
- FB Fan -
USA
177 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2004 : 12:39:32
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this is not a partisan issue. the american political process has become completely beholden to corporate interest and now cannot preform the jobs that our elected politicians hold, which is to represent the people.
protest and activist groups try to use their freedoms to show the general public their stance on individual issues. problem is that one bad apple ruins the entire pie. there is a portion of all activist groups that are interested in direct action which often means destruction of private property. that has nothing to do with our 1st admendment rights, and those that go outside the law should be punished.
that being said there is no way americans can allow some kind of martial law gestapo to control our freedoms, or as it appears now lack there of. |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2004 : 12:55:53
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[tin foil hat] It would be in the best interests of the Republicans if some of the demonstrators became violent this weekend and next week. Thus, one could expect right-wing provocateurs to whip up that activity. [/tin foil hat]
PS Some protestors with a more arachists bent are capable of being violent all on their own. |
Edited by - darwin on 08/27/2004 12:56:42 |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2004 : 13:09:39
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On that note, there is a documentary you can rent now called "Weather Underground", which in part covers the infiltration and redirection of a student organization that only conducted peaceful protests against the Vietnam war. It was drawn and quartered by FBI infiltration which advocated violent or criminal action, causing a rift in the group. The remains became the Weather Underground, and had several FBI agents as members. There were documents that were retrieved and leaked, which provided evidence that the FBI made it a common practice to cause disturbances and initiate violence to destroy and disable groups (including the Black Panthers).
It's a very interesting story, which looks at the phenomenon from many angles, including an objective eye on the members that became zealots due to a sense of urgency and despair. It's scary what people will do when they feel the cause is more important than the means. Which I feel is what is occurring here, with the destruction of civil rights and freedoms in the cause of security.
It is really an amazing documentary -maybe the best I have ever seen. It's a cautionary tale that applies to any side of any issue, and it does an incredible job of telling a story that no one knew before. I would say that it is most timely, and I highly recommend it.
http://www.upstatefilms.org/weather/ |
Edited by - apl4eris on 08/27/2004 13:16:27 |
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The King Of Karaoke
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3759 Posts |
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slaveish
= Cult of Ray =
USA
269 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2004 : 21:10:22
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All of the anti-war protests that took place last year were peaceful. That's the idea. Many, many of the same people (myself included) will be marching on Sunday to show our solidarity against the Bush REGIME. I expect that that march (which has been refused by the city a suitable place to assemble and rally) will also be peaceful. We're not the warmongers. We're the peaceful ones.
Anyone else attending the march on Sunday? Should be spectacular. |
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Ebb Vicious
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1162 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2004 : 10:35:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Carolynanna
What exactly do you mean when you say "difference" ebb?
well like for instance the stupid WTO protesters. they aren't going to get big corporations to change their policies that way. there are better ways to get the changes they want that will actually work. but they choose to cause a big scene because they want attention, unfortunately it gets the wrong kind of attention for the cause and ends up doing more harm than good in the public image.
imho, 99.9% of public protesters do so because they want attention and have a deseprate need to feel important in some way. most of the time it's just going to make a lot of people dismiss you out of hand, and rarely will it actually inspire change.
there are better ways to go about it, but they don't involve drawing attention to yourself, so most "activists" aren't really interested. |
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n/a
deleted
4894 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2004 : 10:46:57
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for example......
I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2004 : 10:51:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Ebb Vicious
well like for instance the stupid WTO protesters. they aren't going to get big corporations to change their policies that way. there are better ways to get the changes they want that will actually work.
What are some better ways you know of to make a difference?
WTO issues, anti-war/foreign policy, etc.? |
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Ebb Vicious
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1162 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2004 : 08:26:32
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hahaha i knew you mental midgets would reply like that.
oh well gee whiz i dunno, how about maybe with your vote? how about with the way you choose to spend your money? how about with the written word?
how about real social change?
just about anything besides throwing a tantrum with a bunch of picket signs like a gaggle of little babies. |
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Mommy, what's an activist?
