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frank_black_francis
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
895 Posts |
 Posted - 06/29/2004 : 06:03:19
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Popular vote (%):
Also, how many seats would be taken if reflected by Popular Vote
Liberals: 135 Seats (should have 113 seats)
36.7%
Conservatives: 99 Seats (should have 91 seats)
29.6%
Bloc Quebecois: 54 Seats (should have 38 seats)
12.4%
N.D.P. : 19 Seats (should have 48 seats)
15.7%
Other: 1 Seat (should have 2 seats)
5.6%
Total seats: 308
Majority: 155
...and now you know why the other 3 parties do not want proportional representation.....they all stand to lose seats while the NDP more than doubles its seats.
Abolish the Un-elected senate and replace it with a house of reps that have more significant power that represent the popular vote! Thats how to unify Canada and defeat the forces of both Western Alienation and Separatism. |
Edited by - frank_black_francis on 06/29/2004 06:23:25 |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2004 : 07:35:18
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Damned bloq. I love how the election was nothing about seperatism and then as soon as the Quebecers who voted for BQ in protest had finished casting their votes, surprise surprise, seperatism are the first words out of Gil's crooning mouth. What the hell is a provincial anti-federal party doing in federal parliament?! Seriously. </rant>
Sorry, but the Bloc can go somewhere nasty forever in my opinion.
Hopefully the Liberals can woo the independant and then the NDP can hold the balance of power. Also too bad that the Green party didn't pick up a seat, though 4% is a pretty major feat and they will be federally funded on the next go.
 "When 5000 posts you reach / Look as good you will not, hmmm?" |
Edited by - Cult_Of_Frank on 06/29/2004 08:32:57 |
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BrendanT
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
907 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2004 : 09:12:42
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Why are people so pissed off with a party which highlights the inadequecies of the nation. The Bloc will now allow the west's problems and concerns to be noticed.
Canada extends well past Ottawa. Pass it on!
Strummer-man
I had me a vision!
It's step, hip, step, pivot! Are you trying to piss-off the volcano?! |
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2004 : 09:31:09
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I'm really surprised by the amount of Cons that got through..damn Nazi's! (Former Alliance..)
All i gotta say is our voting process doesn't handle more than two parties very well.
 Join the Cult of the Flying Pigxies - I'm A Believer! |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2004 : 09:31:23
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Brendan: I'm really debating whether you're serious or not...
"When 5000 posts you reach / Look as good you will not, hmmm?" |
Edited by - Cult_Of_Frank on 06/29/2004 10:16:26 |
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Frog in the Sand
-+ Le premiere frog +-
France
2715 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2004 : 09:54:19
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Whatwhatwhat? Do I have to understand that Quebec is still part of Canada???
"Join the Friends of FB.net / and win your weight in cereals"  |
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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2004 : 09:56:34
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| Unfortunately, yes frog. |
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Frog in the Sand
-+ Le premiere frog +-
France
2715 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2004 : 10:08:31
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If you hate somebody set them free!
"Join the Friends of FB.net / and win your weight in cereals" |
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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2004 : 10:17:06
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| Believe me, I would in a snap. |
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shineoftheever
> Teenager of the Year <
Canada
4307 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2004 : 11:54:03
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at least it is a minority government
"That's Nuckin' Futs" |
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shineoftheever
> Teenager of the Year <
Canada
4307 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2004 : 11:58:23
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It's going to be a circus for the next couple of years ladies and gents, I guess I'll renew my subscription to the National Post, woohoo!, I'm not moving back to Canada yet though, what's the weather like in the Bahamas right now?
"That's Nuckin' Futs" |
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BrendanT
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
907 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2004 : 13:09:32
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Which would you rather I be? Serious or not?
I cannot believe that before the West Coast had finished casting their votes it was already calculated that the Liberals had won by minority!
What is wrong with giving the French the credit they deserve. They speak two languages (both official in Canada I believe) they own many of "Canada's" natural resources and have a distinct history. We are "Canadians", and a large part of that Canadianism is French.
I am not French nor do I ever wish I had been born French, but I am sick of people alienting a group of people because they are different and demanding equity. They are not second class citizens. Why do we only care that the French want to become a "sovereign" state? Isn't that what we have been keeping from the first nations peoples of this land? We "Canadians" will never allow that to happen so you do not have to worry about the Quebecers ever having the opportunity to do so.
Help strengthen your own community and the nation will mend itself.
Hey, maybe I will be the first to buy and sell water from the West. All in the name of Canada! Sorry, Ottawa.
Strummer-man
I had me a vision!
It's step, hip, step, pivot! Are you trying to piss-off the volcano?! |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2004 : 14:02:16
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How does a separatist party accomplish this? One whose sole ambition is to be the party that finally splits them from Canada? Where do I say that I'm anti-French. Further, please detail to me how/when they are treated like second class citizens?
I say only that a party that has soft-pedalled separatism and saying that this election is not about separation and then immediately claiming 55 seats a separatist victory strikes me as two faced and that I see no productive reason for Quebec to have it's own federal party which is merely a single interest-one province party. I see no productive and self-healing coming from this, only the opening of more wounds.
If Quebec wants to separate, let them, but you know what, more money and time has been wasted on this than I care to think about. We had a referendum. We've had several. The answer is always no. Why do we then continue to go back on the majority and ask again, "Should Quebec separate"? Why? Because the politicians in the Bloc are less concerned with what the people want and more concerned at being the 'liberator of quebec' in the history books.
And why do you keep bringing up the West like we're from a different planet? Maybe we should have a western separatist movement, too. Sadly I'm not the first to concoct such a hair-brained scheme, but please explain how you think that this sort of divisiveness is helping the nation mend itself or even strengthening the community. It seems like a childish ploy to squeeze more than is fair from Ottawa.
As far as seriousness, I suppose I was assuming you're joking. The Bloc will help promote the west? Come on, really, how do you justify such a claim?
"When 5000 posts you reach / Look as good you will not, hmmm?" |
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2004 : 22:25:15
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I'm going to start a Bloc party for Vancouver Island.
My platform will be that VI wants to separate from BC, and join with Quebec.
When i'm representing the BQ, i will speak in English, but with a french accent.
How fun this will be. =)
Join the Cult of the Flying Pigxies - I'm A Believer! |
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BrendanT
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
907 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2004 : 07:49:57
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What I mean about helping promote the West's concerns with regards to the Bloc is that the West really is a different and unique area of Canada. As well as the Prairies and the East Coast. But for some strange reason the areas in Southern Ontario (including Ottawa) seem to be of more concern to those in the Federal government. The livlihoods of the people within this area are of the utmost importance. Without equal representation from all areas there will never be an equal effort to hear and understand those "outside" concerns.
What do the majority of cabinets ministers from the "Anglophone Eastern" area understand about issues affecting the West Coast and Quebec? First Nation issues, headwater issues, the language law? (Why the fuck does this even have to exist?)
Democracy is about allowing everyone the ability to voice their problems and worries in hopes of having then rectified with means that justifies the end. For the people by the people.
Is Canada that homogenous and superb that each and every person would like to stay unified. Don't get me wrong, I think that Canada should and will always stay as one, but there are definite problems that must be sorted out before we can say that everyone is satisfied. We should be asking ourselves the question; why does the greater population of Quebec want soveriegnty? Are we creating another region in the world like the one occupied by the Basque?
The Canadian government has never given in to the First Nation people of our land so why worry about us giving anything to or even letting Quebec separate? Quebec should be heard from and the louder they get the more chance that they will be heard. Who cares if they have another referendum? It is their right. It is the PM's right to veto the outcome as well.
I never said you were anti-french. Sorry if it seemed that way.
I think that you are right about the fact that too much money has been spent and too much time debating this issue. I think that there can be a solution if enough of Canada will listen.
Dave, that would win you the hearts of many a true Vancouver Island Francophone! Vive le Island!
Strummer-man
I had me a vision!
It's step, hip, step, pivot! Are you trying to piss-off the volcano?! |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2004 : 09:08:55
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I'll be the first to agree with you that federal politics is very much about Ontario but in my mind it's also about Quebec. Not only do those two provinces hold what I believe to be an inordinate amount of seats, but it seems that every person in any sort of powerful position hails from there. Ralph Goodale is a good man to have in cabinet, and perhaps this time around Saskatchewan in particular has only itself to blame as every seat except Goodale's was won by a Conservative MP, making it impossible for any other cabinet ministers from here, but in general, things are about the east. Perhaps because that's where politicians live. We certainly don't see prime ministers out here unless there's some disaster/photo op. Give me a shovel, I'm going to pretend to be helping with the Red River flood. That sort of thing.
But, my concern is that a regional federal party, even one not focused on separation, is divisive and not the way I believe federal politics should work. If my MPs were so short sighted as to only talk about Saskatchewan in the context of itself as opposed to also considering our place in the nation, I'd be completely dissatisfied. What if every province had a provincial party as Quebec does? It wouldn't make for a very united government for one. And it would make all provinces that are NOT Quebec and Ontario virtually silent. Every provincial party would be gunning exclusively for itself, and that means that votes would essentially be between Ontario and Quebec. The fact that Quebec not only has a provincial party already and that that party has 55 seats is offensive to me in that they are not federally minded and hold a huge chunk of seats in the house. I think we believe the same thing, but we see the function of the Bloc differently. And I also despise the concept of a language law and would not be in Quebec long before being jailed I'm sure.
I'd like to see something happen where Quebec is satisfied with their role and the part they play in making Canada what it is, but, at least from my seat-poor western stance, they already have far more power than is fair and get concessions they don't really need at the expense of provinces who do but are not threatening the government with secession.
I don't really feel like the east has some anti-west agenda, whatever Stephen Harper/Preston Manning/the media might have you believe. I just think that the west isn't really on the agenda at all.
"When 5000 posts you reach / Look as good you will not, hmmm?" |
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All_over_the_world
- FB Fan -
44 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2004 : 09:43:15
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| You're all weird |
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The Champ
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
736 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2004 : 14:30:57
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| Discusting results, now hold onto your wallets guys the socialists are running the show. Now weve learned that Jack Layton is spineless because he would like to join the Liberal coccus, the west wants to separate and so does Quebec, and Ontario's people are messed up in the head and gulible as hel lfor buying inot the Liberals brain washing fear tactics. Steven harper is not a Nazi or hittler or racist, so shut your damn mouth and learn the god damn facts. |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2004 : 14:36:46
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Perhaps people didn't vote for him because of his pro-war Bush following policies?
"When 5000 posts you reach / Look as good you will not, hmmm?" |
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frank_black_francis
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
895 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2004 : 15:36:47
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quote:
Originally posted by The Champ
Discusting results, now hold onto your wallets guys the socialists are running the show. Now weve learned that Jack Layton is spineless because he would like to join the Liberal coccus, the west wants to separate and so does Quebec, and Ontario's people are messed up in the head and gulible as hel lfor buying inot the Liberals brain washing fear tactics. Steven harper is not a Nazi or hittler or racist, so shut your damn mouth and learn the god damn facts.
Youch!!!.....It should be noted that Harper is a trained right-wing economist who believes in all the typical right-wing things (Small Government, Free Markets, Trickle-Down Theory, and could give a rat's ass about the marginalized)....He is such an elitist that he left the Reform Party because he was disgusted with the fact that Preston Manning had the habit of consulting with the Grass Roots on Party Policy.....and despite having gained the official opposition, he is still thinking about leaving politics.
But to refer to those who voted for him as gullible.....how very Harperesque. |
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2004 : 15:58:18
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Well said FBF.
I forgot 'racist' tho, thanks Champ! =)
Join the Cult of the Flying Pigxies - I'm A Believer! |
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The Champ
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
736 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2004 : 04:59:08
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| LOL , what the hell is wrong with a FREE MARKET??, sorry fellas but free markets is whats paying for your social programs, dont u get it? A strong Economy is benifical for EVERYONE, and guess what, communism dont work! it never has wake up people. Now we have corruption brought back in why exactly? CAuse people are ignorant to any suggestions of change? Guess so. stupid. Small minded thinking from the Left wing. |
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The Champ
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
736 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2004 : 05:00:49
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| LOL , what the hell is wrong with a FREE MARKET??, sorry fellas but free markets is whats paying for your social programs, dont u get it? A strong Economy is benifical for EVERYONE, and guess what, communism dont work! it never has wake up people. Now we have corruption brought back in why exactly? CAuse people are ignorant to any suggestions of change? Guess so. stupid. Small minded thinking from the Left wing. |
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The Champ
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
736 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2004 : 05:23:39
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| O yeah and another thing, i can't believe how u dont c that spreading rumours is not harmfull, or acceptable, how would u like it if i singled you out and started calling you a petiphile or something unjustified. If i got enough people to believe that then you would be harrassed constantly, think about it, its not fair and just immoral. I thought Lefties were supposed to be living on a higher moral ground then everyone else. :) |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2004 : 10:09:16
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If you really think that the reason Stephen Harper didn't get in is because he believes in a free market, then you might want to take a closer look at his platform. Assuming that everyone who doesn't agree with you is stupid and gullible is not exactly the way to address such topics either. If you want left/right polarized politics, the US border is never too far away. I'd rather look at their stance on the issues and go from there, rather than blindly voting right or left.
"When 5000 posts you reach / Look as good you will not, hmmm?" |
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The Champ
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
736 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2004 : 10:59:42
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If you really think that the reason Stephen Harper didn't get in is because he believes in a free market, then you might want to take a closer look at his platform.
I never said that was the reason he didnt get in. What are u talking about? |
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realmeanmotorscutor
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1764 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2004 : 11:03:05
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Canadian small talk moment!
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2004 : 13:02:16
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Champ, you're right, I assumed your post was connected to your last one about Liberal fear mongering as opposed to a response to fbf.
"When 5000 posts you reach / Look as good you will not, hmmm?" |
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frank_black_francis
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
895 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2004 : 15:08:34
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quote:
Originally posted by The Champ
LOL , what the hell is wrong with a FREE MARKET??, sorry fellas but free markets is whats paying for your social programs, dont u get it? A strong Economy is benifical for EVERYONE, and guess what, communism dont work! it never has wake up people. Now we have corruption brought back in why exactly? CAuse people are ignorant to any suggestions of change? Guess so. stupid. Small minded thinking from the Left wing.
The Free Market providing Social Programs of which you speak, Champ, is associated with Trickle-Down Economics (which I also mentioned)....and despite the boom in economies since Thatcherism and Reganomics (of which Harper is a fan) there has been no 'trickling down' as poverty is on the rise. Trickle Down Economics is a LIE! Free Markets operate on chaos and let too many fall thru the cracks....this 'not caring about our less fortunate neighbours' mentality is, well, quite obviously Un-Canadian.
Steven Harper is, well, Un-Canadian in his policies......
I am sure that you, like many who believe in Free Markets may, from time to time, be proud when you hear people from other countries cite the Canadian model of Health Care Policies, Social Programs and brand of Social Democracy as an great example of an effective and stable society....I know I am.
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Edited by - frank_black_francis on 07/01/2004 15:09:24 |
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The Champ
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
736 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2004 : 16:50:15
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| Im going to look for some stat's on unemployment, and poverty in canada before i argue this. But it is my assumption that with more people employed their are more people paying Taxes and thus more money for the poor, depending on what the governemnt spends it on. I mean think about how much money we would have every year extra for the budget if we didnt have a National Debt. I dont think the buy now worry about it later trudeau ideology works myself. |
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2004 : 22:29:21
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I believe, if you look at my income, i am technically living in poverty..
Join the Cult of the Flying Pigxies - I'm A Believer! |
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frank_black_francis
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
895 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2004 : 02:18:40
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Poverty:
Check out some stats at Statistics Canada.
http://www.statcan.ca/start.html
Look at the per capita income change and compare it to average Rent Increases (or the Housing Market in general)....and Voila!
Also interesting (Maybe not to Harper) is if you compare average income between Genders. You may note that Women (despite having Higher Levels of Education/ On average) earn up to 30% less on average than Men...and who might you ask are the heads of Single Parent Families for the most part? Women.
Again, This doesnt really interest Harper.....but hey, maybe the Free Markets will work all this out in the end. |
Edited by - frank_black_francis on 07/02/2004 03:38:51 |
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The Champ
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
736 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2004 : 03:40:16
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Allright i can argue those to somewhat right now :)
Rent increases u have subsidised housing and rent control, just ask Jack Layton he was living in one even tho he was making the big bucks on toronto's city councile
Steven harper wanted and might still be able to add a 2000 dollar a year per child tax credit, now thats a damn good idea and am all for that considering its expensive to raise kids and thats one reason why we have a shrinking population and have to rely on immigration to keep our population from dwindling into nothing. Hey its a start in the righ direction and im sure thats all it would be, a start not a finish.
Dave i dunno about your situation but it is never to late to get a college education. |
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The Champ
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
736 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2004 : 03:47:18
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| Good stats btw im looking at em now |
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BrendanT
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
907 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2004 : 06:57:40
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CANADIANS RISK turning into pseudo-Americans if they vote Stephen Harper and the Conservative Party into office, activist American filmmaker Michael Moore said yesterday. "So my silent plea is don't go our way!" Moore said in an interview yesterday during a hectic day-long Toronto visit to introduce his controversial documentary, Fahrenheit 9/11, at a special preview screening for 600 people at the Varsity Cinemas.
"Look, I'm on a lifelong mission to convince Americans to be more Canadian-like," he said, describing how he grew up in Flint, Mich., listening to the CBC and came to admire Canada for its independence, especially in relation to the Vietnam War.
"I think we'd have a better country if we behaved more like you," Moore said. "And the thing that you're in the process of possibly doing in the next week or two is behaving more like us."
Moore said he fears that Harper is too sympathetic to U.S. President George W. Bush, whom he relentlessly attacks in Fahrenheit 9/11.
Moore's views are no surprise. He counts himself as a spokesman for the left and confesses his primary ambition for his film is to have an effect on the current U.S. election: "I'd like to remove George W. Bush from the White House!"
As for Harper, Moore said: "First of all he would put Canadians in the coalition of the willing. He believes that Canada should be joining more with the United States instead of trying to be its own separate thing. And I think he has a big pair of scissors in his hands, desperate to cut away at the social safety net that you have.
"Why on earth would you do that to yourselves? Why would you want a society that looked like ours? What do you think is so remarkable about the way that we've structured our society, where we have a growing gap between rich and poor, where we have 40 million adult Americans who are functional illiterates because of our educational system? Why would you want to live in more fear as violence and crime increases? That to me makes absolutely no sense. It's like taking a piss on yourself. Why would you want to do that?"
At the same time, Moore said, he knows that Paul Martin and the Liberals have put themselves in a losing position in the polls because of scandals. In the U.S., his political position is compromised, he said, because he is no fan of Democrat John Kerry.
Strummer-man
I had me a vision!
It's step, hip, step, pivot! Are you trying to piss-off the volcano?! |
Edited by - BrendanT on 07/02/2004 06:58:50 |
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BrendanT
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
907 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2004 : 07:00:34
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TORONTO - Following on the heels of filmmaker Michael Moore, U.S. presidential hopeful Ralph Nader is asking Canadians not to support the Conservatives, saying a right-wing government would undermine the country's social safety net.
In an open letter, Nader, who is running as an independent candidate in the upcoming U.S. presidential election, tells Canadians not to "overreact" to the federal Liberal sponsorship scandal. He said they should vote for any party but the Tories.
"Stephen Harper and the Conservatives have plans for crippling the commonwealth and security of the Canadian standard of living, known worldwide as just about the finest among sizable nations," Nader says in the letter.
Ralph Nader's letter
Nader, who gained fame as a consumer advocate, blasts the Tories for being "sympathetic" to a Fraser Institute plan of a "corporatist Canada that tears away your common safety net."
Nader warns that under the Conservatives, foreign ownership and large corporations would dictate Canadian economic policy and the country would turn to a "pay-or-die model" of health care.
"Forty-five million Americans – women, men and children – have no insurance coverage, and the number of uninsureds is increasing," says Nader in his letter.
He ends the letter by telling Canadians that the world needs an "independent, humane Canada."
Strummer-man
I had me a vision!
It's step, hip, step, pivot! Are you trying to piss-off the volcano?! |
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Canada: Election Results
