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GypsyDeath
Zapped Profile
3575 Posts |
 Posted - 05/24/2004 : 10:55:20
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I dont need to prove it. I believe what I believe. as I said, I dont need evidence to believe something like that.
If you seriously think outside events effect a persons sexuality, then fine. thats up to you.
I 'simply' feel that this is the case, and every homosexual I have EVER spoken to about this subject (which, in my life time is a fair few!) feels that this IS the case.
If you dont, thats just fine. Im not asking you to agree, as I said earlier, this is not the be all and end all of the 'queeer theory' as it were. sort of.
I love you for what I am not,
I did not ask for what I have got.
You will get used to me.
Welcome to your new joy. |
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bumblebeeboy2
> Teenager of the Year <
United Kingdom
2638 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2004 : 10:58:52
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you dismissed my opinion that i felt some people 'turned' gay and that not every person was 'born' gay as though your opinion was fact... that's all. i'm willing to believe a great deal are... what it is that makes them gay, god knows... however i do believe people can be affected socialially and culturaly...
thank god this isn't a 'is being gay normal' threads... [ ]
Why won't you dance for me, like you danced for him? |
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TheCroutonFuton
- Mr. Setlists -
USA
1728 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2004 : 11:00:20
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quote:
Originally posted by bumblebeeboy2
you dismissed my opinion that i felt some people 'turned' gay and that not every person was 'born' gay as though your opinion was fact... that's all. i'm willing to believe a great deal are... what it is that makes them gay, god knows... however i do believe people can be affected socialially and culturaly...
thank god this isn't a 'is being gay normal' threads... []
Why won't you dance for me, like you danced for him?
"socialially"?!!
"Freedom is a state of mind and the condition and position of your ass. Free your mind and your ass will follow." - Funkadelic |
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bumblebeeboy2
> Teenager of the Year <
United Kingdom
2638 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2004 : 11:06:08
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quote:
Originally posted by TheCroutonFuton
quote:
Originally posted by bumblebeeboy2
you dismissed my opinion that i felt some people 'turned' gay and that not every person was 'born' gay as though your opinion was fact... that's all. i'm willing to believe a great deal are... what it is that makes them gay, god knows... however i do believe people can be affected socialially and culturaly...
thank god this isn't a 'is being gay normal' threads... []
Why won't you dance for me, like you danced for him?
"socialially"?!!
"Freedom is a state of mind and the condition and position of your ass. Free your mind and your ass will follow." - Funkadelic
social classes, problems, issues... i've done my research, it was mentioned as a possibility...
Why won't you dance for me, like you danced for him? |
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GypsyDeath
Zapped Profile
3575 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2004 : 11:06:23
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Yes, I believe thatpeople can be affected "socialially" and culturally too. But I dont think it would work quite like that. there would have to be some thing already in them to consider being gay in the firtt place
oh, im gonna stop this post now, as im really tired, and cant actually think straight.
ill get back to you on that one!
I love you for what I am not,
I did not ask for what I have got.
You will get used to me.
Welcome to your new joy. |
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TheCroutonFuton
- Mr. Setlists -
USA
1728 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2004 : 11:07:46
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No, no...just I've never heard of the word "socialially"..I've heard of "socially"..but not "socialially"
"Freedom is a state of mind and the condition and position of your ass. Free your mind and your ass will follow." - Funkadelic |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2004 : 11:07:59
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quote:
Originally posted by GypsyDeath
Just because something is not proven, does that mean it is not real simon? If everyone thought like that we'd still be thinking the world is flat.
We no longer think the world is flat because people went out and gathered evidence that it's not. Not becuase they accepted a hypothesis without any evidence or support.
So far, I don't think we have good evidence that sexual preference is genetically inherited. So, at this point it's only a hypothesis. I think it's dangerous (and smacks of political manipulation of science) to insist that sexual preference is genetically inherited before there is good evidence to support the hypothesis. |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2004 : 11:11:03
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quote:
Originally posted by GypsyDeath
I dont need to prove it. I believe what I believe. as I said, I dont need evidence to believe something like that.
But, if you want us to believe it you need to have evidence. |
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bumblebeeboy2
> Teenager of the Year <
United Kingdom
2638 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2004 : 11:12:55
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quote:
Originally posted by TheCroutonFuton
No, no...just I've never heard of the word "socialially"..I've heard of "socially"..but not "socialially"
"Freedom is a state of mind and the condition and position of your ass. Free your mind and your ass will follow." - Funkadelic
well now you have. put it in your box of clues and rub them together.
it was a typo.
Why won't you dance for me, like you danced for him? |
Edited by - bumblebeeboy2 on 05/24/2004 11:13:33 |
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TheCroutonFuton
- Mr. Setlists -
USA
1728 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2004 : 11:15:23
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Whoa there. I just wasn't sure if it was a British word or something. When you replied to my "Socialially?!" you didn't say it was a typo...so I figured it was another American/British difference...sorry.
"Freedom is a state of mind and the condition and position of your ass. Free your mind and your ass will follow." - Funkadelic |
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bumblebeeboy2
> Teenager of the Year <
United Kingdom
2638 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2004 : 11:17:44
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quote:
Originally posted by TheCroutonFuton
Whoa there. I just wasn't sure if it was a British word or something. When you replied to my "Socialially?!" you didn't say it was a typo...so I figured it was another American/British difference...sorry.
"Freedom is a state of mind and the condition and position of your ass. Free your mind and your ass will follow." - Funkadelic
no probs, with your posts in the 'cheating' thread i thought you were just being pedantic... my spelling is getting worse.
Why won't you dance for me, like you danced for him? |
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GypsyDeath
Zapped Profile
3575 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2004 : 11:20:38
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Darwin, for people to go out and collect the evidence to prove the world is round, surely some one would of had to had the hypothesis in the first place - and then the evidence was researched in to?
And I dont 'want' you to believe anything. Im not the controller of your thoughts, this is, as I have said a hundred times, my opinion, and from my experience what I believe to be true.
And in herited? I dont think I would quite say inherited, because that suggests gay ancestors would pass on gay offspring? that may be the case. who knows.
Theres actually 3 (one dead) gay people in my family...so maybe it is. i dont know. as i said, im tired.
I love you for what I am not,
I did not ask for what I have got.
You will get used to me.
Welcome to your new joy. |
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bumblebeeboy2
> Teenager of the Year <
United Kingdom
2638 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2004 : 11:26:04
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there's only 1 gay person in my family... and they have been researching into finding a gay gene, for quite a long time, without any success so far, btw.
Why won't you dance for me, like you danced for him? |
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bumblebeeboy2
> Teenager of the Year <
United Kingdom
2638 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2004 : 11:28:06
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quote:
Originally posted by bumblebeeboy2
there's only 1 gay person in my family... and they have been researching into finding a gay gene, for quite a long time, without any success so far, btw.
Why won't you dance for me, like you danced for him?
haha, i mean scientists... not my brother, he hasn't done any research... not that i know... he's an air steward...
Why won't you dance for me, like you danced for him? |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2004 : 11:44:21
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quote:
Originally posted by GypsyDeath
Darwin, for people to go out and collect the evidence to prove the world is round, surely some one would of had to had the hypothesis in the first place - and then the evidence was researched in to?
Yes. They had a hypothesis, but they shouldn't believe the hypothesis is true until they have evidence to support it.
quote:
And I dont 'want' you to believe anything. Im not the controller of your thoughts, this is, as I have said a hundred times, my opinion, and from my experience what I believe to be true.
And in herited? I dont think I would quite say inherited, because that suggests gay ancestors would pass on gay offspring? that may be the case. who knows.?
You said:
No, you dont 'turn' gay. Its not something that just...happens. Its is in the genes. you either are or you arent. NOTHING to do with upbringing or anything of that sort.
That sounded to me like you were saying it was a FACT that sexual orientation is genetic ("its in the genes") and you "wanted" us to believe that.
My guess (my hypothesis) is that people are gay for a multitude of reasons. Some are born that way (for genetic or developmental reasons). That's part of who they are. Others like to be different and in many communities being gay is different. So, they in some degree choose to be gay. Others have experiences that make the other sex repugnant to them and they become more comfortable (safe) around their own sex and again to some degree to be gay. I think there's a multitude of pathways to being gay.
I'm people getting myself on thin ice but I don't see why sexual orientation is fundamentally different than the sexual preferences that we all learn or develop. I think most of us throughout our lives change in what attracts us. Do we believe that we're born preferring blondes vs brunettes? Are we born with a weak spot for fishnet stockings or plaid skirts? I don't think so. I think we learn those things. Why can't a woman learn/discover that other women are attractive or fun to have sex with (where was I, got a bit distracted there)? Why can't one choose to be gay? |
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Homers_pet_monkey
= Official forum monkey =
United Kingdom
17125 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2004 : 12:20:41
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quote:
Originally posted by apl4eris
mun chien, your argument seems to hold some water (I imagine anybody with a different background or socio-economic strata, weird accent, or even funny clothes will be picked on), until you consider that mixed race couples had the very same argument used against them when they had children. The problem is not children from mixed race couples or children being raised by gay couples, but society's narrow-minded response to them. Just in the 1950s and 60s here in the US, the responses to Eisenhower's decision to desegregate public schools were surprisingly and scarily ignorant and vehemently hateful. General attitude has changed, though not as quickly or broadly as one might hope, but it has changed. Society and human civil interaction is not easy nor perfect. It's a struggle to insist and live the belief that everyone is equal and should be treated as such, but we have to keep working for it.
As far as whether gays should be allowed to legally join in civil union, or marriage, I completely agree with VoVat's post, and I think a lot of other posters' similar thoughts on the matter.
If the only tool you have is an elbow macaroni,
all your problems look like Schroedinger's cat.
I don't think I need to read beyond this post. This sums it all up for me.
Very well put Ramona!!!
Hansel and Gretel have formed a band, .....And You Will Know Us By The Trail Of Breadcrumbs!!! |
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fudd
= Cult of Ray =
664 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2004 : 12:42:56
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| There must be some twin studies on the born/made question, aren't there? You know, identical twins, separated at birth or at a young age... Perhaps the folks who have dug out stats on other questions can answer this. |
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ivandivel
= Cult of Ray =
394 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2004 : 12:59:01
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| Ok, how would a gay gene survive? |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2004 : 13:12:08
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| it would be interesting to find out if there's a link between a gay gene and using java jackets. but i suppose for now there are more important inquiries.. |
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Cheeseman1000
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Iceland
8201 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2004 : 13:26:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Homers_pet_monkey
quote:
Originally posted by apl4eris
mun chien, your argument seems to hold some water (I imagine anybody with a different background or socio-economic strata, weird accent, or even funny clothes will be picked on), until you consider that mixed race couples had the very same argument used against them when they had children. The problem is not children from mixed race couples or children being raised by gay couples, but society's narrow-minded response to them. Just in the 1950s and 60s here in the US, the responses to Eisenhower's decision to desegregate public schools were surprisingly and scarily ignorant and vehemently hateful. General attitude has changed, though not as quickly or broadly as one might hope, but it has changed. Society and human civil interaction is not easy nor perfect. It's a struggle to insist and live the belief that everyone is equal and should be treated as such, but we have to keep working for it.
As far as whether gays should be allowed to legally join in civil union, or marriage, I completely agree with VoVat's post, and I think a lot of other posters' similar thoughts on the matter.
If the only tool you have is an elbow macaroni,
all your problems look like Schroedinger's cat.
I don't think I need to read beyond this post. This sums it all up for me.
Very well put Ramona!!!
Hansel and Gretel have formed a band, .....And You Will Know Us By The Trail Of Breadcrumbs!!!
I think if you look carefully, it wasn't ramona at all, but apl. Nitwit.
Anyway, trust floop to add some gravitas to the discussion. Typical.
 "Everywhere I go I want to travel by X-Wing" |
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BLT
> Teenager of the Year <
South Sandwich Islands
4204 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2004 : 13:27:54
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quote:
Originally posted by ivandivel
Ok, how would a gay gene survive?
It would be an uphill battle. Especially in gene junior high school. |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2004 : 13:34:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Cheeseman1000
Anyway, trust floop to add some gravitas to the discussion. Typical.
i thought this discussion could use some gravitas. i apologize.. |
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Cheeseman1000
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Iceland
8201 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2004 : 13:36:36
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I think it was looking for a bit of depth, some weight... not gravitas.
"Everywhere I go I want to travel by X-Wing" |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2004 : 13:42:22
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| isn't that what gravitas means? |
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Cheeseman1000
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Iceland
8201 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2004 : 13:46:49
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Gravitas (n) grav-it-ass: the process of being pulled towards a large object purely because of the size of ones backside.
"Everywhere I go I want to travel by X-Wing" |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2004 : 13:49:17
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| that's bullocks! |
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BLT
> Teenager of the Year <
South Sandwich Islands
4204 Posts |
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Cheeseman1000
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Iceland
8201 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2004 : 13:53:09
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Its true I swear. George Bush told me so.
"Everywhere I go I want to travel by X-Wing" |
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Homers_pet_monkey
= Official forum monkey =
United Kingdom
17125 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2004 : 13:55:48
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I don't really care who it was, it's what they put that was important.
But for the record, well put apl.
Hansel and Gretel have formed a band, .....And You Will Know Us By The Trail Of Breadcrumbs!!! |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6213 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2004 : 13:58:32
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the world is a stupid place
and we all deserve to die
what everybody does of course
 "I joined the Cult of Frank/Nobody wanted to join my Culf" |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2004 : 14:11:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Homers_pet_monkey
I don't really care who it was, it's what they put that was important.
But for the record, well put apl.
Hansel and Gretel have formed a band, .....And You Will Know Us By The Trail Of Breadcrumbs!!!
Thanks, Greg.
If the only tool you have is an elbow macaroni,
all your problems look like Schroedinger's cat. |
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Homers_pet_monkey
= Official forum monkey =
United Kingdom
17125 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2004 : 14:12:49
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Hehehe, sorry about that. I often get you muggled up, you both post a lot that I agree with. When I finally work out what the hell you are on about that is apl!!! You are definitely the most random person on this forum!!!
Often makes me laugh, even when I don't get it though. Random is cool, i love random.
Hansel and Gretel have formed a band, .....And You Will Know Us By The Trail Of Breadcrumbs!!! |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2004 : 14:43:25
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quote:
Originally posted by ivandivel
Ok, how would a gay gene survive?
I doubt there is a single gene, but if it was it could be recessive (ie only expressed when paired together). In that case genes can effectively hide and have low selection against. Please don't interpret recessive as a political or value statement.
Also, if people carrying "gay genes" are better uncles, aunts, older brothers and sisters, ect. Then the gene can survive because the gay individual raises the fitness of its family members and those family members often carry the gene as well (in the business this is called inclusive fitness or kin selection). The same kind of argument applies to celebate clergy (but we know they reproduce more often than they're suppose to). |
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darkoutsider
= Cult of Ray =
USA
285 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2004 : 16:41:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Cult_Of_Frank
Ramona/Darkoutsider, I think the point BLT was trying to make is this:
BLT: "I'm just letting you people know that every gay parent isn't a fucking ball of joy and it does have an effect on kids sometimes."
So all he's trying to 'prove' is that there's it's not all perfect on the other side, which I find it hard to believe anyone could take exception with. Don't be so defensive!
On an unrelated note, not being against it (i.e. being tolerant) doesn't necessarily mean you are all for it. I think this is the problem that some politicians have. Being tolerant just means that it's not doing any harm to anyone else, so what is the big deal? This is my feeling on gay marriage. I don't see what the big deal is. Two people love each other, good for them. There are far bigger problems in society than that. :)
 "When 5000 posts you reach / Look as good you will not, hmmm?"
Sorry for getting all worked up on this topic. But seeing people being treated like this, with so much hate. It gets me upset. I don't think anyone here is like those Religious/Conservative/Right Wingers so I should be a little more calm. I feel the same way though, there are bigger issues in the world, like IRAQ!!! I just want to get over this issue, that shouldn't even be an issue!! I thought this kind of thing was settled back during the Civil Rights movement. Equal rights for all? It's obvious GW is using this like Clinton used Monica, while at the same time bombing the shit out of civilians. And that pisses me off even more that he's trying to distract us like this. He's using the gay marriage, almost as a cover up to divert the rest of us from asking him why he lied. And... FUCK... it worked.
But that's just my opinion, I could be wrong. |
Edited by - darkoutsider on 05/24/2004 18:25:37 |
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Gay Marriage? What do you think?
