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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
 Posted - 05/24/2004 : 19:08:45
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No worries, I do understand and appreciate you trying to keep your calm. It's a great topic but very controversial so we all have to keep our heads, of course, so thanks for your understanding.
 "When 5000 posts you reach / Look as good you will not, hmmm?" |
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2004 : 12:33:49
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For those of you that are straight - did you *choose* to be straight?
What makes you think gay people are any different?
A considerable problem we have is that society has been very intolerant, and so we now see people 'becoming gay'..but i think what is often overlooked is that many if not most of these people were probably gay to begin with, but were discouraged from it, and so they 'choose' to be straight.
And regardless of all this, what difference does it make? People just want to be loved. Some take more comfort from being with men, just as others take more comfort from being with women. So be it!
As for bisexuality, i believe it's just as 'real'. Sure, there are cases where people will take it up to be 'trendy' (or perhaps they really do feel bisexual, but also enjoy the supposed glamour), but there are definitely bisexual people out there. Like one of my best friends and old girlfriend.
Although some people 'take it in stride', it's not really that easy, especially when looking for a long-term relationship...would she rather be with a woman or man..? She's been mainly with men, but wants to spend more time with women..but hasn't been meeting many..
How do you guys feel about the idea that we're all bisexual, with strong leanings one way or the other (most typically)?
 Join the Cult of the Flying Pigxies - I'm A Believer! |
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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2004 : 12:39:13
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I read (in my university textbook thank you very much) that there are some physical differences within the brain between straight and gay men.
I also read that virtually all identical twins have the same sexual orientation. Something to think about. |
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fudd
= Cult of Ray =
664 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2004 : 14:29:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Carolynanna
I read (in my university textbook thank you very much) that there are some physical differences within the brain between straight and gay men.
I also read that virtually all identical twins have the same sexual orientation. Something to think about.
Anything on twins raised separately?
(WAY) back when I was in college the Kinsey report (if I remember correctly) was pretty well accepted, placing people on a scale of something like 1 to 7, with 1 being pure straight, 7 pure gay, and 4 right in the middle. I think there were very few 4s, mostly 1s and 7s, but a significant number of 2s and 6s. Do any of you younger people know more recent studies? |
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GypsyDeath
Zapped Profile
3575 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2004 : 16:36:43
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'you younger people' you dont know how old that made you sound! haha
Anyway, I have to say I agree with dave.
I often thought about the possibility of everyone being gay, but just leaning towards one sex more than the other - and many people not even realising their attraction towards the other....soooI think its a possiblitly and definately something to think about.
I love you for what I am not,
I did not ask for what I have got.
You will get used to me.
Welcome to your new joy. |
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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2004 : 16:45:38
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There's many colours in the homo rainbow,
don't be afraid to let your colours shine...
(sorry couldn't resist) |
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mun chien andalusia
= Quote Accumulator =
Italy
2139 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2004 : 17:09:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Carolynanna
I read (in my university textbook thank you very much) that there are some physical differences within the brain between straight and gay men.
I also read that virtually all identical twins have the same sexual orientation. Something to think about.
In my textbooks there are no statistics of that kind. I don't have any evidence that gay and straight people have genetic differences. On the other hand a lot of studies claim that there are social and\or psychical factors that could determine sexual behaviour.
 join the cult of errol\and you can have a beer\without having to quit smoking
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darkoutsider
= Cult of Ray =
USA
285 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2004 : 18:42:39
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quote:
Originally posted by GypsyDeath
Im totally with Ramona on this one. As you know, I too have a gay parent, and over the years, you become accustomed to being VERY defensive of them. If any one (im not saying any one on here has done this) even suggested that I had an unstable, or disfuctional upbringin, or the way i am now, is because of my mum being gay...well, I dont know what id do. But I have had a fantastic upbringing, and my mother is the best i could have ever dreamt of - especially when i look around at other people upbringing.
However, this is NOT to do with the fact that she is gay, as such. but the fact that she is naturally a very good mother.
This crap about homosexuals being molested more so than hetrosexuals, im sorry, but what are you trying to prove? that if you were molested then you turn out gay?! well sorry, but newsflash, you either are gay, or you arent. you dont 'turn' gay, youre are born gay. its just like being born iwth blue/green/brown eyes or something like that. Its in your genes.
I know tons of people who have been abused or molested and are far from gay. Just as I know tons of gay peole who havent been abused.
Could I ask you to check the date on those statistics?
And also could it not be something more to do with (lesbians in particular) gay people being more open about the injustice of society, and generally being more open about when something unjust has happened to them? I think theres is also alot more support out there for homosexuals, and much more opportunites for them to opn up about such a subject.
Of course, i am being lazy, and generalising big time here. which is slightly contradictive of me to do so. but hey, im tired!
I love you for what I am not,
I did not ask for what I have got.
You will get used to me.
Welcome to your new joy.
Easy with that thought GypsyDeath. I don't disagree with you, but there isn't enough evidence to say whether or not either argument is true. Just saying.
But that's just my opinion, I could be wrong. |
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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2004 : 18:46:58
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quote:
Originally posted by mun chien andalusia
quote:
Originally posted by Carolynanna
I read (in my university textbook thank you very much) that there are some physical differences within the brain between straight and gay men.
I also read that virtually all identical twins have the same sexual orientation. Something to think about.
In my textbooks there are no statistics of that kind. I don't have any evidence that gay and straight people have genetic differences. On the other hand a lot of studies claim that there are social and\or psychical factors that could determine sexual behaviour.
join the cult of errol\and you can have a beer\without having to quit smoking
Alright I'll crack open the text,
I'll get some stats for tomorrow. |
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darkoutsider
= Cult of Ray =
USA
285 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2004 : 18:51:46
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quote:
Originally posted by TheCroutonFuton
No, no...just I've never heard of the word "socialially"..I've heard of "socially"..but not "socialially"
"Freedom is a state of mind and the condition and position of your ass. Free your mind and your ass will follow." - Funkadelic
you ass. lol 
In my defense... I'm just sayin' |
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TheCroutonFuton
- Mr. Setlists -
USA
1728 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2004 : 18:53:13
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hahahaha 
"Freedom is a state of mind and the condition and position of your ass. Free your mind and your ass will follow." - Funkadelic |
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darkoutsider
= Cult of Ray =
USA
285 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2004 : 18:53:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Cult_Of_Frank
No worries, I do understand and appreciate you trying to keep your calm. It's a great topic but very controversial so we all have to keep our heads, of course, so thanks for your understanding.
"When 5000 posts you reach / Look as good you will not, hmmm?"
I'm an understanding guy, one of my many good traits. That and rocking, but this is off topic so I'll stop.
In my defense... I'm just sayin' |
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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2004 : 15:30:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Carolynanna
quote:
Originally posted by mun chien andalusia
quote:
Originally posted by Carolynanna
I read (in my university textbook thank you very much) that there are some physical differences within the brain between straight and gay men.
I also read that virtually all identical twins have the same sexual orientation. Something to think about.
In my textbooks there are no statistics of that kind. I don't have any evidence that gay and straight people have genetic differences. On the other hand a lot of studies claim that there are social and\or psychical factors that could determine sexual behaviour.
join the cult of errol\and you can have a beer\without having to quit smoking
Alright I'll crack open the text,
I'll get some stats for tomorrow.
This is from my textbook called Human Sexuality in a World of Diversity, Spencer Rathus, Jeffrey Nevid, Lois Fichner-Rathus, third edition 1996, pages 276-278.
“Twin studies shed light on the possible role of heredity. Identical twins develop from a single fertilized ovum and share 100% of their heredity. Fraternal twins develop from two fertilized ova.
Several studies have identified gay men who had either identical or fraternal twin brothers in order to examine the prevalence of a gay male sexual orientation in their twin brothers. In an early study, Kallmann (1952) found 100% concordance for a gay male sexual orientation among the identical twin brothers of gay men, as compared to 12% concordance for fraternal twin pairs in which one of the brothers was identified as gay. This seemed strong evidence indeed of genetic factors in sexual orientation. However, later studies have found much lower concordance rates among identical twins. (Bailey & Pillard, 1991; Eckert et al., 1986; McConaghy & Blaszczynski, 1980). These studies found many instances of identical twins in which one identical twin member was gay and the other in the pair was not. Still, identical twins do appear to have a higher concordance rate for a gay male sexual orientation than fraternal twins. Bailey & Pillard reported a 52% concordance rate among identical pairs versus a 22% rate among fraternal pairs. In another study, researchers reported a concordance rate for a gay sexual orientation of 66% in identical twins, as compared to 30% among fraternal twins (Whitam et al., 1993.”
And there you have it, I could’ve been correct if it was 1952.
I have alot more interesting info on physical differences within the brain and a little bit on the X chromosome, I'll post more when I get some time.
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VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2004 : 17:23:21
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For what it's worth, I think homosexuality is natural, and some people are born that way, but that doesn't mean that some people don't become gay because of upbringing or environment. It can work more than one way.
I have to say that I'm also annoyed by fashionable bisexuality. I think some women who will make out with other girls to attract guys are actually quite misogynistic, and would never enter into an actual relationship with another girl. And there are other cases where, as far as I can tell, girls think they're bi because they think some women are attractive. It's like they can't conceive of kinds of attractiveness other than sexual. For that matter, I think it's possible to find someone generally sexy without actively wanting to have sex with them.
Cattle in Korea / They can really moo. |
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darkoutsider
= Cult of Ray =
USA
285 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2004 : 21:10:45
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That's one hell of a good point VoVat. I bow to you for that one. Then sucker punch you and stomp on you and run, because I didn't think of it before. I'm just kidding. Good point though still. I agree fully.
I am comfortable with my own sexuallity that I can say whether or not some other guy is attractive. I know I'm straight, I know I like the dames. I can say, "hey you look good man" or "that's pretty cute" without thinking, damn I must be gay. Or maybe I am gay...  , what ever just another day for me...
In my defense... I'm just sayin' |
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bumblebeeboy2
> Teenager of the Year <
United Kingdom
2638 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2004 : 05:01:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave Noisy
For those of you that are straight - did you *choose* to be straight?
yes.
I am my only god, ha ha ha ha ha ha |
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cvanepps
= Cult of Ray =
USA
442 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2004 : 10:12:42
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quote:
Originally posted by ramona
What the hell?? I wasn't saying he didn't need to say anything to ME. God. READ the quote above from Dean. What I MEANT was that if he sees something he doesn't agree with, he doesn't NEED to comment.
And how nice of you to TOLERATE people with a different viewpoint from yours. I am sure they are thrilled.
Christ, you sound demented. I can see why you stopped posting after this one. The smoke from your ears probably made it difficult to see the monitor. And you're picking on COF to top it off? Lordy-Loo!
You decided to twist his use of the word "tolerance" to be so negative because you disagree with him (not Dean, but the dude you were responding to, whomever that is). People have opinions. Truth be told, not many of those opinions will be shared by everyone. So in an open forum such as this, it's not necessary to comment on every little thing you disagree with when you exercise some tolerance. I don't think tolerance is a bad thing.
What's the alternative to having no tolerance? I'm talking about zero tolerance on the part of everyone; none whatsoever. There are 2 scenarios that I can think of:
1) We'd all have exactly the same opinions about politics, music, art, morality, ethics, you name it. So basically, this scenario is the conclusion to the film "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" (as a side note, I actually prefer the 1978 version to both the 1956 or the 1993).
2) Anarchy. Absolute chaos. All countries would be at war with each other all the time. We would never have gotten out of the stone age.
So you see, tolerance is actually a good thing.
-= It's not easy to kidnap a fat man =-
http://www.cvanepps.com |
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bumblebeeboy2
> Teenager of the Year <
United Kingdom
2638 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2004 : 10:33:49
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quote:
Originally posted by cvanepps
1) We'd all have exactly the same opinions about politics, music, art, morality, ethics, you name it. So basically, this scenario is the conclusion to the film "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" (as a side note, I actually prefer the 1978 version to both the 1956 or the 1993).
i completely agree. the 78 version is far superior!
I am my only god, ha ha ha ha ha ha |
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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2004 : 16:13:02
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Where is MCA?
Don’t tell me I blew the dust off this textbook for nuthin!
Ack screw it, I didn’t want to work anyway…;)
(PS. If it looks too long, at least read paragraph 2)
From the same text as my last post, same pages;
“Researchers at the National Cancer Institute have found evidence linking a region on the X chromosome to a gay male sexual orientation (Hamer et al., 1993). The researchers found that gay males in a sample of 114 gay men were more likely to have gay male relatives on their mothers’ side of the family than would be expected, based on the prevalence of a gay male sexual orientation in the general population. Yet they did not have a greater than expected number of gay male relatives on their paternal side of the family. This pattern of inheritance is consistent with genetic traits, like hemophilia, that are linked to the X sex chromosome, which men receive from their mothers.
The researchers then went on to examine the X sex chromosome in 40 pairs of gay male, non-twin brothers. In 33 of the pairs, the brothers had identical DNA markers on the end tip of the X chromosome. For brothers overall in the general population, about half would be expected to have inherited this chromosomal structure. It is suspected, therefore, that this chromosomal region may hold a gene that predisposes men to a gay male sexual orientation.
The researchers did caution that they had not found a particular gene linked to sexual orientation, just a general location as to where the gene may be found. Nor do they know how the gene may account for sexual orientation. Perhaps a particular gene or genes govern the development of proteins that sculpt parts of the brain.”
Interesting hey, tomorrow I’ll post about those differences within the brain itself.
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bumblebeeboy2
> Teenager of the Year <
United Kingdom
2638 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2004 : 04:23:29
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nothing that conclusive... and going from the date it was published, doesn't seem as though they had much luck narrowing it down... my girlfriend had actually heard of that, along with the brain differences...
I am my only god, ha ha ha ha ha ha |
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jediroller
* Dog in the Sand *
France
1718 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2004 : 05:05:24
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quote:
Originally posted by bumblebeeboy2
i completely agree. the 78 version is far superior!
No sir! I'll stick with Don Siegel here. And my bud Frog in the Sand would most certainly concur if he was around. So there.
--
Everything I say to you is gonna come out wrong anyway |
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fudd
= Cult of Ray =
664 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2004 : 05:14:31
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quote:
Originally posted by cvanepps
So basically, this scenario is the conclusion to the film "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" (as a side note, I actually prefer the 1978 version to both the 1956 or the 1993).
Wasn't that where Karen Allen made her eyes go all crazy? Now THAT gave me the creeps! |
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mun chien andalusia
= Quote Accumulator =
Italy
2139 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2004 : 06:51:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Carolynanna
Where is MCA?
Don’t tell me I blew the dust off this textbook for nuthin!
Oops, i didn't mean to make you work for nothing. I'll have to search for those books in the hospital library, though they are not used as text books in medicine school. Interesting studies but from the date of pubblication and the lack of other researches that confirm the results i'd say that they are just theories for now. The studies on identical twins have always been controversial. Though they share the same DNA nobody has proven that this affects their psychological evolution more than fraternal twins or even normal brothers. It's more probable that their similar social behaviour must be attributed to the fact that they grow up together and to their surrounding ambient(see parents that they make tham dress in the same way, or their friends and teachers that can't tell one fronm another). In order to prove that the DNA has a significant role one should study identical twins separated fron each other and raised in diffent contests. It cannot be excluded that sexual orientation is at some grade determined by gene factors but most psychiatrists agree that the social factor is very important.
join the cult of errol\and you can have a beer\without having to quit smoking
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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2004 : 09:45:45
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I totally agree that it is some sort of combination of factors.
I just find the studies (although preliminary and the dated text, although I don't think the studies in the 90s are irrelevant) to be quite interesting. Another perspective, you know? I'll still post the brain stuff later, it involves a study where they did autopsies. |
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The King Of Karaoke
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3759 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2004 : 11:18:08
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This has become an interesting thread, from what I've read.
As far as Gay marriage goes. What business is it of anybody's, to tell this person or that, who and who not to love?
Imagine what it must be like to be attracted to a person, but some people around you, keep telling you, "No...You are not supposed to be attracted to him(or her)... Okay?... Here, look... It say's so in this big book your supposed to be reading. Haven't you been reading this??? No?? Look right here... See I told you. So now stop. Just read this and you'll will be fine. Before you know it, you will be normal like me. Now help me with this "baby killer" sign. We've got some protesting to do!"
------------------------------------
Confucious say - The philosophy of one century is the common sense of the next.
He also say my lucky numbers are: 16 27 36 23 11
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/
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mun chien andalusia
= Quote Accumulator =
Italy
2139 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2004 : 12:00:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Carolynanna
I totally agree that it is some sort of combination of factors.
I just find the studies (although preliminary and the dated text, although I don't think the studies in the 90s are irrelevant) to be quite interesting. Another perspective, you know? I'll still post the brain stuff later, it involves a study where they did autopsies.
Studies in genetics and specially on identical twins are extremely interesting but we still know too little on how a certain combination of genes can influence a behaviour. In the 90's scientists were so excited by the possibilities of genetic research that they went searching a gene for everything. Like "the smokers gene", "the drug addict gene", "the gay gene" "the alcoholist gene" and so on. It is not that simple and most of the medic world is pretty sceptical about the effort to discover "clean" genes that determine a social behaviour.
As far as sexual orientation goes, for what is in my (limited)knowledge, it seems that the most influencial factor is the childhood and adolescent experiences. It is common that gay as children were lonely and sensitive characters, that showed interest for different things than the other children of the same age and gender. During adolescence most have reported incompression or even opression from their social ambient (friends and family) and they are not few those who have reported parental abuses (physical and\or sexual violence).
join the cult of errol\and you can have a beer\without having to quit smoking
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ramona
"FB Quote Mistress"
USA
3988 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2004 : 12:52:27
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quote:
Originally posted by cvanepps
quote:
Originally posted by ramona
What the hell?? I wasn't saying he didn't need to say anything to ME. God. READ the quote above from Dean. What I MEANT was that if he sees something he doesn't agree with, he doesn't NEED to comment.
And how nice of you to TOLERATE people with a different viewpoint from yours. I am sure they are thrilled.
Christ, you sound demented. I can see why you stopped posting after this one. The smoke from your ears probably made it difficult to see the monitor. And you're picking on COF to top it off? Lordy-Loo!
You decided to twist his use of the word "tolerance" to be so negative because you disagree with him (not Dean, but the dude you were responding to, whomever that is). People have opinions. Truth be told, not many of those opinions will be shared by everyone. So in an open forum such as this, it's not necessary to comment on every little thing you disagree with when you exercise some tolerance. I don't think tolerance is a bad thing.
What's the alternative to having no tolerance? I'm talking about zero tolerance on the part of everyone; none whatsoever. There are 2 scenarios that I can think of:
1) We'd all have exactly the same opinions about politics, music, art, morality, ethics, you name it. So basically, this scenario is the conclusion to the film "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" (as a side note, I actually prefer the 1978 version to both the 1956 or the 1993).
2) Anarchy. Absolute chaos. All countries would be at war with each other all the time. We would never have gotten out of the stone age.
So you see, tolerance is actually a good thing.
-= It's not easy to kidnap a fat man =-
http://www.cvanepps.com
Well, I was clearly the only person who had a problem with the intial post and didn't respond to that clearly. Sorry if I offended you. Obviously it is not something I can debate in this forum. Sometimes things are so close that you can't rationally discuss them, and I think I already replied to why that was true for me.
I'm done.
_______________________________________________________
never gonna know you now, but I'm gonna love you anyhow... |
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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2004 : 12:58:33
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quote:
Originally posted by mun chien andalusia
quote:
Originally posted by Carolynanna
I totally agree that it is some sort of combination of factors.
I just find the studies (although preliminary and the dated text, although I don't think the studies in the 90s are irrelevant) to be quite interesting. Another perspective, you know? I'll still post the brain stuff later, it involves a study where they did autopsies.
Studies in genetics and specially on identical twins are extremely interesting but we still know too little on how a certain combination of genes can influence a behaviour. In the 90's scientists were so excited by the possibilities of genetic research that they went searching a gene for everything. Like "the smokers gene", "the drug addict gene", "the gay gene" "the alcoholist gene" and so on. It is not that simple and most of the medic world is pretty sceptical about the effort to discover "clean" genes that determine a social behaviour.
As far as sexual orientation goes, for what is in my (limited)knowledge, it seems that the most influencial factor is the childhood and adolescent experiences. It is common that gay as children were lonely and sensitive characters, that showed interest for different things than the other children of the same age and gender. During adolescence most have reported incompression or even opression from their social ambient (friends and family) and they are not few those who have reported parental abuses (physical and\or sexual violence).
join the cult of errol\and you can have a beer\without having to quit smoking
You see that is interesting.
Can you go on more about environmental and/or psychological factors?
Once I asked that kind of question in school when some people came to speak to us about homosexuality and the person flipped out on me saying, it shouldn't matter why and so on.
So I never ever understood or could even think of such factors. |
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Prettified Strata
- FB Fan -
USA
7 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2004 : 13:17:55
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| By belief is that everyone deserves to be equal. The thought of having a constitution that actually discriminates a group of people is disgusting. |
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mun chien andalusia
= Quote Accumulator =
Italy
2139 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2004 : 19:53:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Carolynanna
You see that is interesting.
Can you go on more about environmental and/or psychological factors?
Once I asked that kind of question in school when some people came to speak to us about homosexuality and the person flipped out on me saying, it shouldn't matter why and so on.
So I never ever understood or could even think of such factors.
Maybe i was too rough on my other posts and i got misunderstood. I'm always interested on studies on human psyche and behaviour. By no means i accept "universal truth" of any kind, and i am always open to new points of view if well documented and unbiased. That said my experience on the gay argument is this:
There is absolutely no certainty on the factors that determine human sexuality(and IMO there is no need for such a thing). As a medicine (psychiatry) student i've seen lots of gay problematics that are different yet in some way similar. The most common are:
1) The patient can't accept his nature, mostly because he feels guilty against his family and because subconciously wants to apply to their way of life
2) The patient always acted as straight but at some point started to have gay partners (mostly aged patients)
3) The patient has a convinced gay orientation but is abused or not accepted by his social environment.
Statistics say that gay are mostly men and of medium\high income families. A case apart are transexuals that totally refuse their nature and in many cases want to become women in every sense. They should not be confused with gay in general, because they feel like women in a man's body which is totally different.
The fact is that gay are still treated mostly as psychiatric cases and not as a third "gender" mainly because the image that the medical world gets of the gay community is the one given by the patients and not of those who live their lives normally. Statistics and research are done for one reason only: the researchers believe that gay can be "cured" or prevented. I am sure that when they discover the "gay gene" they will permit abortion if they find that gene in the prenatal exams. The reason of all this is that society does not accept gay for what they are but tries in some way to bring them in a "normal" standard. This pression creates a lot of problems.
The most common case is an adolescent brought in clinic for alimentation and\or antisocial problems. His parents swear that he is an excellent student with a lot of interests but at some point he started to act strange, stoped eating regularly and cut all social life. These are classic depression symptoms. When you ask the patient he will say that nobody understands him, that he does not like what kids at his school like (music, sports etc) and that they treat him like a freak. Continuing the chat he will admit that he has no interest in the other gender and that he does not find it important. In some cases there is a strong parental pressure to get excelent results at school and sports or at stuff that the patient does not care about. Many times they consider their sexual fantasies "filthy" and initially they will refuse to talk about them. In some cases they consider themselves "sinners" in the face of God (in case of religiously rigorous families) or they will admit that they had a "strange" relationship with a close family member. Note that there are patients with the exact same symptoms that are straight but just depressed for a series of reasons. Only a percentage of these cases the depression is due to sexual orientation confusion.
Excluding classic pathological depression cases these patients are tough to deal with because it is obvious that there is no mental or physical disorder that can be treated pharmaceutically. Many times a thorough psycanalisis can bring up the nature of the problem and get the patient to accept his nature. In the same time most parents tend to refuse reality and torture the patient with other exams and doctors in order to assure themselves that their son is "normal". Doctors treat these cases not with bibliography but with common sense. So the real problem is not how one is born or becomes gay but how do you treat someone that for one reason or another is gay.
As i said before there is no definitive conclusion on the factors that determine sexual orientation. The only thing i get to read is statistics and theories, many times based on questionable criteria or without serious evidence. Maybe it is not even important why one is gay. The real problem is how to convince society to accept those people without making a drama.
join the cult of errol\and you can have a beer\without having to quit smoking
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2004 : 22:55:40
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"Maybe it is not even important why one is gay. The real problem is how to convince society to accept those people without making a drama."
I would agree with this for the most part, well said.
As for physical attribute relating to sexuality, i saw a show that mentioned that gays typically have shorter third (ring?) fingers..so your third finger would be closer in length to your pinky than your middle finger. (I *think* it was that finger..i need to review that show again..it was really good.)
Anyone else heard of this?
Join the Cult of the Flying Pigxies - I'm A Believer! |
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bumblebeeboy2
> Teenager of the Year <
United Kingdom
2638 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2004 : 06:33:55
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sounds like their clutching at sraws  my brothers fingers are the same length as mine. he's gay, i'm not. go figure...
I am my only god, ha ha ha ha ha ha |
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Atheist4Catholics
= Cult of Ray =
USA
925 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2004 : 09:31:24
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I haven't read all of the posts, but seeing how I live 5 minutes from where the first gay marriage took place I thought I'd say "about time." I hope Mit Romney's political career hits the crapper for all he did to try and stop it from happening.
I actually wish they'd keep the name "marriage" for religious unions and call non-religious ones "civil unions" as long as the legal rights are the same. My wife and I are atheists and sort of wish we had a civil union and not a marriage.
I think Christians are really threatened by gay marriage because it shows the world that gay couples can be normal and monogamous. When I was a Christian, gays were always presented as having different sexual partners for each day of the week. You would think the church would support a more conservative form of gay sexuality, but they don't because they want to maintain their opinion that gay people are sexually deviant.
I bet gay marriages will have a lower divorce rate than hetero ones.
 "Join the Cult of Frank / or The Clops gets it!" |
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IceCream
= Quote Accumulator =
USA
1850 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2004 : 22:39:21
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If, in any way, gay marriage could induce adoption, I am absolutely against it.
ADOPTION, imo, ranks among the top-ten blights to mankind.*
*it's really not my place to say, because I know nothing about it. I just personally think it's sad that kids can't be with their biological parents.
 Join the Cult of Pi - It's just 3.14159265358979323846264338327950288419716939937510582097.... |
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IceCream
= Quote Accumulator =
USA
1850 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2004 : 22:50:33
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| thanks to Bumble, this reply stands edited. |
Edited by - IceCream on 05/30/2004 09:08:23 |
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Topic |
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Gay Marriage? What do you think?
