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fbc
-= Modulator =-
United Kingdom
4903 Posts |
 Posted - 10/17/2005 : 01:56:05
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Does the forum want to talk about this?
quote:
And as for the way the forumers are dividing over this.
I didn't know of a divide until last night. I know there's a big part of the forum (which includes most of the "big hitters") who have taken offence to some of JT's words since he first arrived.
I don't think I was here when the first flare-up happened, but recieved emails telling me a certain fraction of this forum weren't too keen on JT when I did eventually start to post. Even though I get looked over alot, I've always wondered what the consequences of my postings to Jon would be.
I just want some of you to know that whoever posts in reply to Jon Tiven (and it's always about the music), it's not done in opposition to a grudge being held against him. No side has been taken. Please don't see it that way. It is only about the music.
I'm sorry we haven't stopped posting in support of the members who have been offended by Jon (I don't even know who they are. I just know piss one off, piss them all) |
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fbc
-= Modulator =-
United Kingdom
4903 Posts |
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Carl
- A 'Fifth' Catholic -
Ireland
11546 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2005 : 02:11:38
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| I was a little taken aback by the anti-Tiven stance at first, I now feel that perhaps he is blowing his trumpet a little. But if people are constantly posting dismissive comments about him, it's no surprize that he'd want to answer back. |
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fbc
-= Modulator =-
United Kingdom
4903 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2005 : 02:36:42
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The anti-tiven stance itself doesn't bother me.
It's the fact it now spills over into every thread he posts in.
I've been here a year, Carl, and it's been going on in some small way for that long.
If it's not going to stop, I thought at least we could talk about it. |
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Carl
- A 'Fifth' Catholic -
Ireland
11546 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2005 : 02:38:47
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| Yeah, it needs to be sorted out for once and for all. |
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fbc
-= Modulator =-
United Kingdom
4903 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2005 : 02:45:12
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It's a shame some things get left in the past and some things don't.
Black and white: Alot of members have been offended by JT. We all know this. Message has come through loud and clear. Now what? Do we keep this negativity going? It really isn't fun for anyone. |
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fbc
-= Modulator =-
United Kingdom
4903 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2005 : 02:48:14
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| Hey, I see a couple of members on board. Guys, what do you think about all of this? |
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Cheeseman1000
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Iceland
8201 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2005 : 02:51:32
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I'm not getting involved, thanks.
 I have joined the Cult Of Frank/And I have dearly paid |
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whoreatthedoor
> Teenager of the Year <
Spain
2873 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2005 : 02:53:37
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I was in the first anti-Tiven batch, but I always get tired of arguing very soon, so I stopped posting. I still don't like him though.
This time we ride roller coasters into the ocean
We feel no emotion as we spiral down to the world |
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fbc
-= Modulator =-
United Kingdom
4903 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2005 : 02:56:07
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Fair enough.
I don't think I should really have bothered with this, should I? Mondays are shit enough without all this nonsense. |
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Llamadance
> Teenager of the Year <
United Kingdom
2543 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2005 : 02:57:46
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I'm not sure whether a thread that Jon Tiven can read and reply to is going to encourage anyone to talk about this. It could just degenerate into something worse than has gone before.
That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.
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vilainde
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Niue
7443 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2005 : 02:59:04
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Well I think the starting point is very simple: there are people who dislike Honeycomb, and some other who like the album but dislike the production or Tivo's input in the album. I guess I'm part of the 2nd group. And then Tivo started posting in every thread that concerned the album, to tell the ones who emitted bad comments that they weren't mature enough to "get" it. If you haven't noticed, there hasn't been any critical thread towards HC until very recently and that's largely due to Tivo's presence. The story is much longer than that but that's how it began I think.
Denis
"You know what? You know what? You know what? Shut the fuck up!" |
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fbc
-= Modulator =-
United Kingdom
4903 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2005 : 04:47:14
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Llama, I agree this may descend into chaos like the others, but I was hoping we've already been there done that, and now it's time to end it. i've only started this thread because it seems to be more than just about what people feel about JT now. As someone who replies to some of his posts, I feel i'm being labelled as something I am not. I always keep out of all this stuff, but last night I thought it was time I actually stood up to what is going on. I may be wrong in doing so, it was just something I felt strongly about.
Vilainde, I understand most of what is going on and feel the members who have been affected by thishave every right to feel the way they do. I'm just wondering how long the negativity is going to continue. Again, what can be done? What do the "side" against Jon really want? Can this be sorted out? |
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dayanara
* Dog in the Sand *
Australia
1811 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2005 : 04:47:45
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i tried to ignore him for a long time but i've had enough of his bullshit. he's the very worst kind of name-dropping attention whore. he posts on this forum solely because when he does people kiss his ass and stroke his ego. we're a pretty welcoming and troll-free community and the people he pisses off on a regular basis are not those who tend to overreact to every little thing. he can't even get along with brian for chrissakes, possibly the nicest person in a very nice community. were you around for that nonsense last year, fbc?
i apologize for losing my temper with him. i'm taking the cheeseman stance from now on. i must admit i would have been much more forgiving of his behavior if he were a halfway decent producer.
edit: i don't think there is really as much going on in terms of "taking sides" as you think.
i am sitting here observing my emotional discomfort. |
Edited by - dayanara on 10/17/2005 04:53:32 |
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fbc
-= Modulator =-
United Kingdom
4903 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2005 : 04:55:59
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I think I walked into it. I was aware JT was Frank's producer so as a naive newbie I thought "treat!", someone on the inside I can talk to about Frank's music.
I really do understand why people are pissed off, it's just that it gets voiced at every opportunity.
And now I read words from members (who as far as I and this forum is concerned I'd like to call friends) indirectly aimed at me which I find uncalled for. This is a problem they have with Jon Tiven. Not with me or the others who take what they want from his words and leave the rest.
D - "edit: i don't think there is really as much going on in terms of "taking sides" as you think". Someone i love on this forum and I know has close ties with "the big hitters" mentioned it. I trust their words like my own. |
Edited by - fbc on 10/17/2005 04:57:49 |
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dayanara
* Dog in the Sand *
Australia
1811 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2005 : 05:02:42
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quote:
Originally posted by fbc
D - "edit: i don't think there is really as much going on in terms of "taking sides" as you think". Someone i love on this forum and I know has close ties with "the big hitters" mentioned it. I trust their words like my own.
i guess i'm not really sure what that means or who the "big hitters" are.
i am sitting here observing my emotional discomfort. |
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PixieSteve
> Teenager of the Year <
Poland
4698 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2005 : 05:48:14
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quote:
Originally posted by fbc
I really do understand why people are pissed off, it's just that it gets voiced at every opportunity.
he manages to come off like a patronising arsehole at every oppertunity, so why not.
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fumanbru
* Dog in the Sand *
Canada
1462 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2005 : 06:08:09
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i really enjoy having jon post and offer his insights. he does have an online personality that can rub some people the wrong way. i think some of the times people don't get his humour or don't think it's funny.
 "I joined the Cult of Frank/ cause I'm a real go-getter!" |
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Stevio10
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
1117 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2005 : 15:18:18
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| I haven't been up to date with the forum recently so had no idea there was any problem in the first place. So I feel bad that I may have provoked something by starting that thread. Personally, Jon has done nothing to upset me, I wanted to know more about his music career. |
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VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2005 : 15:19:24
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I don't really think there's much in the way of "taking sides," either. I get the impression that most of the forum is neutral on Mr. Tiven, with a few people really against him, and a few who like him, or are at least willing to excuse his less savory behavior due the value of the information he gives. It's hardly all-out war. Count me in as basically neutral; I don't like some of the stuff he's said in the past, but, even if I think saying, "You're not mature enough to appreciate Honeycomb" is stupid, and smacks of a cheap advertising ploy ("This is the Frank Black album for mature minds!"), I still think he has just as much right to say it as anyone else here does to express their opinion on the matter.
That said, I do think it's annoying how Jon sometimes tries to act like a professional, here to answer questions and promote stuff, but then turns around and makes things personal when he doesn't like someone's attitude. He has a RIGHT to do this, of course, but it still bugs me.
I do wonder to what extent Jon is above the rules of the forum. Is it possible that he could get away with saying stuff that another member would be banned for, simply because he has a connection to Frank? (And, along those lines, what if he posted a picture of a naked woman? :P)
Oh, and count me in as someone who doesn't understand what FBC means by "the big hitters."
"If you doze much longer, then life turns to dreaming. If you doze much longer, then dreams turn to nightmares." |
Edited by - VoVat on 10/17/2005 15:20:23 |
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BLT
> Teenager of the Year <
South Sandwich Islands
4204 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2005 : 15:29:45
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| I think he sees himself as Frank's George Martin, whereas he's probably his Phil Spector. |
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kelladwella
= Cult of Ray =
Germany
729 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2005 : 15:32:10
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| I read "big hitters" as regular posters with "big" post counts. fbc? |
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ObfuscateByWill
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1887 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2005 : 15:56:49
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I wonder if Jon has mentioned his experiences here to Frank.
*Take a bite of the chocolate coffin. |
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PixieSteve
> Teenager of the Year <
Poland
4698 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2005 : 15:58:50
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tiven probably wrote frank an email too, demanding he force his fans to give him more respect. how embarrassing!
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VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2005 : 16:06:34
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quote:
I read "big hitters" as regular posters with "big" post counts.
Well, I have a pretty high post count, and I don't see it that way, so I'm not sure that's it.
"If you doze much longer, then life turns to dreaming. If you doze much longer, then dreams turn to nightmares." |
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ScottP
= Cult of Ray =
USA
618 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2005 : 16:59:05
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quote:
Originally posted by vilainde
Well I think the starting point is very simple: there are people who dislike Honeycomb, and some other who like the album but dislike the production or Tivo's input in the album. I guess I'm part of the 2nd group.
Denis
"You know what? You know what? You know what? Shut the fuck up!"
Can there be a third group who really likes Honeycomb's songs and isn't distracted by the production but doesn't like the way Tiven comes across? |
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HeywoodJablome
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1485 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2005 : 17:02:01
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quote:
Originally posted by BLT
I think he sees himself as Frank's George Martin, whereas he's probably his Phil Spector.
Or his maybe his P. Diddy.
Heh heh, no but I agree with some of you. I gave Mr. T more than the benefit of the doubt at the beginning until it became apparent (to me anyway) that he kind of likes to stroke himself and goes after those who don't necessarily see things his way. I posted something snide yesterday in response to something he posted which was wrong so I deleted it, just gotta learn to stay away from it if it bugs me. And I could care less if anyone chooses to or chooses not to participate in the JT threads fbc, your still a cool dude. |
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fbc
-= Modulator =-
United Kingdom
4903 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2005 : 01:12:39
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quote:
Originally posted by PixieSteve
quote:
Originally posted by fbc
I really do understand why people are pissed off, it's just that it gets voiced at every opportunity.
he manages to come off like a patronising arsehole at every oppertunity, so why not.
Not every. And again, like the ones who find you and me annoying, just ignore.
quote:
I read "big hitters" as regular posters with "big" post counts. fbc?
I read that somewhere too.
Okay, todays a new day. The people I thought would talk in this thread have kept quiet, and I'm over being called an ass licker and a sychophant.
I really didn't start this thread to stir things up. The whole situation came to a head again on Sunday night, and I was hoping there was somebody out there who could tell me if the anti-Tiven campaign is going to continue while he stays around? That's all.
Right, for me, it's back to business as usual. See you at the next flare-up! |
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fbc
-= Modulator =-
United Kingdom
4903 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2005 : 01:20:06
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and Heywood, the feelings mutual. what a fine addition to this forum you are!
a funny one too.
Edit: Waidda minute!!! Are you makin'a fun o' me?!  |
Edited by - fbc on 10/18/2005 01:28:48 |
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gary13th
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
632 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2005 : 04:15:20
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I think you're right, fbc, you've done a good job to try and get a discussion to sort it out. Especially with no mod contribution.
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I joined the Cult of the Catholics, Oh when will they return ? |
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starmekitten
-= Forum Pistolera =-
United Kingdom
6370 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2005 : 07:10:10
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I've moved house, I have no home net access. I've mailed you though fbc.
Don't feel like going round in circles over this. |
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VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
Posted - 10/19/2005 : 10:32:08
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quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by vilainde
Well I think the starting point is very simple: there are people who dislike Honeycomb, and some other who like the album but dislike the production or Tivo's input in the album. I guess I'm part of the 2nd group.
Denis
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"You know what? You know what? You know what? Shut the fuck up!"
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Can there be a third group who really likes Honeycomb's songs and isn't distracted by the production but doesn't like the way Tiven comes across?
I think saying there are any groups at all is erroneous. We're all capable of forming our own opinions, right? If there's a battle at all, it's between individuals, not sides.
"If you doze much longer, then life turns to dreaming. If you doze much longer, then dreams turn to nightmares." |
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ScottP
= Cult of Ray =
USA
618 Posts |
Posted - 10/19/2005 : 11:29:38
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Completely understood- just having fun.
I'm a walkin', talkin' Frank Black commercial |
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fbc
-= Modulator =-
United Kingdom
4903 Posts |
Posted - 10/19/2005 : 11:47:43
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quote:
Originally posted by starmekitten
Don't feel like going round in circles over this.
Like I said last night Tre, it's not about who likes Jon Tiven and who doesn't. I was just taken aback by the thought of others thinking members who talk to Jon are kissing ass when they're doing no such thing. That's all.
I don't see this issue being a circle.
But this post is. We said our peace last night. I've only posted this to bring my part in all the madness to a calm end. Next time, in the heat of the moment, i'm going for a swim.
Happy posting y'all! Don't you let 'em rile ya.
All in the same boat / Rockin' on the same route
We gotta get together / Join each other |
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PixieSteve
> Teenager of the Year <
Poland
4698 Posts |
Posted - 10/19/2005 : 11:50:11
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i think tiven left
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ScottP
= Cult of Ray =
USA
618 Posts |
Posted - 10/19/2005 : 12:49:10
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Let's don't rub the lamp.
I'm a walkin', talkin' Frank Black commercial |
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Topic |
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The JT Effect
