| Author |
 Topic  |
|
floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
 Posted - 05/09/2005 : 12:07:52
|
addendum: one of the great delights of mine was telling someone that i was sleeping with their mother, eliciting a voluminous round of laughter throught the whole party.
there's nothing more satisfying than a well-executed mom joke |
 |
|
|
kathryn
~ Selkie Bride ~
Belgium
15320 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2005 : 12:10:36
|
You're saying you and LBF went to high school
or college together? (Kittie and Surfer
are talking about their high school and I'm talking
about college.) Which of the two did you go to with
him?
 I still believe in the excellent joy of the Catholics |
|
|
|
floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2005 : 12:19:51
|
| i was talking about my hs reunion. mom jokes pre-date me and LBF. i think the 'mom joke' is possibly one of the earliest recorded jokes in history.. archeologists have even discovered some really funny ones in some of the first hieroglyphic writings |
|
|
|
kathryn
~ Selkie Bride ~
Belgium
15320 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2005 : 12:23:43
|
Is that a fact? Please let me know so I can put it in
the "Post Useless/Useful Facts You Learned On The
Forum Thread" that I'm about to start, thanks to you
and Surfer.
I still believe in the excellent joy of the Catholics |
|
|
|
VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2005 : 18:33:07
|
quote:
that aside i must say that i think there are more snippy, catty men on this forum than women.
Well, I DO have that part-time job as a feline hairdresser.
Anyway, if my school is having a ten-year reunion, I guess it will be next year. I don't plan on going. I didn't really know anybody in high school. I might possibly go to a college reunion, if there is one.
I was all out of luck, like a duck that died. I was all out of juice, like a moose denied. |
|
|
|
apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2005 : 11:50:38
|
I remember all too well becoming the random focus of pure evil cattyness and ostracizing in all-girls' Catholic school in 9th grade. By the middle of the year I had no friends. Thank god I had friends outside of school. I don't know if I'll ever understand how or why it happened. All I knew was that it was part of a dare, pick a girl and completely ruin her.
That was great for a girl with a horrible family life and serious lack of self esteem on many levels. I just didn't know how to stick up for myself when people were so cruel when unprovoked. I don't really want to go into too much detail, because it still hurts to this day. The worst is the not knowing why. I guess I just didn't use Machiavellian tactics when they were what was required. Then again, it could have been my arguing with the religion teacher ("Sister" Jean Ann Zappa) about original sin. Maybe I pissed off the Catholics - bad move.
This thread topic really hits close to home for me, because I dealt with this in one school after another, and I'm not sure if it's nature or nurture, but I still have problems relating to girls in a group. I've only ever been able to manage good friendships one to one -something about socialized girl behavior scares the hell out of me.
|
|
|
|
kathryn
~ Selkie Bride ~
Belgium
15320 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2005 : 11:56:22
|
Oh, Apl, I'm so sorry. That crap's just not OK.
At least you found another group of Catholics - male, musician ones - to make you feel better.
I still believe in the excellent joy of the Catholics |
|
|
|
apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2005 : 12:05:55
|
thanks kathryn. In a sad way it helps to know I wasn't alone. Delusions of persecution really suck, especially when they're real heheh.
Leaving that school and majoring in art at a very different kind of high school probably saved me.
And yes, the new Catholics have been quite the soothing balm for those old scars. :) |
|
|
|
kathryn
~ Selkie Bride ~
Belgium
15320 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2005 : 12:10:13
|
One has to think that a study such as the one with which Erebus
began the thread is a step in the right direction. If this stuff's
under the microscope, so to speak, maybe some parents will
recognize that their darling daughters are sadistic bullies.
I still believe in the excellent joy of the Catholics |
|
|
|
darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2005 : 12:22:56
|
I wonder if the increase in girl sports (soccer, lacrosse, field hockey, ect.) will help the problem? Will having the experience of being on a team and working together teach good lessons or does it just create more stratification and exclusion of some?
I hope it's a positive thing. I've tried to get my daughter involved in athletic activities (soccer, gymnastics, swimming) because I think it can help one to have confidence and maybe help girls to appreciate their bodies and the athletic things they can do with it. Instill the idea that their bodies are theirs and not just an object for guys to look at. |
|
|
|
kathryn
~ Selkie Bride ~
Belgium
15320 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2005 : 12:29:50
|
I dunno, darwin. While I applaud your thinking and actions,
I can say from experience that team sports and athletics
led me only to an eating disorder and I see tons of
rail-thin girls on my local sports teams. God, I hope you
are right and I am wrong.
To make my post even cheerier....
Last week, I took my 3-year-old daughter out of a class
offered by our local rec department after she complained
that three teammates were being clique-y and excluding
of and rude to her. Another mom and I sat
on the bleachers watching as these three girls
did the "we're gonna snub you, we're gonna gang up on
you" routine with our daughters. These are 3-year-old
kids (just like the article Erebus quotes above) whose
moms are: an oncologist, a Stanford-trained professor
and an attorney. And these three women are either unaware
of or OK with their daughters, at age 3, being frighteningly
savvy in the ways of Machiavelli. So we're in another class now
where there are boys and less bullshit, and I wonder if the presence of boys is what's making it less dramatic and more
fun.
I still believe in the excellent joy of the Catholics |
|
|
|
Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2005 : 12:30:40
|
darwin, kudos to you,
because perhaps the biggest change will come around with increased self esteem, which can be highly affected by involved and committed parents. And it is particularly important from a father to a daughter. The fact that you are interested and care about your daughter's life will make a world of difference. She will know.
__________
This is the war and not the warning. |
|
|
|
kathryn
~ Selkie Bride ~
Belgium
15320 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2005 : 12:35:04
|
Jeez, darwin, I was so busy freaking out about
eating disorders and 3-year-old bullies that
I neglected to praise you, sincerely and profusely
and deservedly, as our gracious Carolyn did.
Your daughter will know her real worth
because she is growing up feeling adored and
valued by the man who matters the most - you,
her caring dad.
I still believe in the excellent joy of the Catholics |
|
|
|
Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2005 : 12:37:32
|
quote:
Originally posted by kathryn
I dunno, darwin. While I applaud your thinking and actions,
I can say from experience that team sports and athletics
led me only to an eating disorder and I see tons of
rail-thin girls on my local sports teams. God, I hope you
are right and I am wrong.
To make my post even cheerier....
Last week, I took my 3-year-old daughter out of a class
offered by our local rec department after she complained
that three teammates were being clique-y and excluding
of and rude to her. Another mom and I sat
on the bleachers watching as these three girls
did the "we're gonna snub you, we're gonna gang up on
you" routine with our daughters. These are 3-year-old
kids (just like the article Erebus quotes above) whose
moms are: an oncologist, a Stanford-trained professor
and an attorney. And these three women are either unaware
of or OK with their daughters, at age 3, being frighteningly
savvy in the ways of Machiavelli. So we're in another class now
where there are boys and less bullshit, and I wonder if the presence of boys is what's making it less dramatic and more
fun.
I still believe in the excellent joy of the Catholics
I still don't know if you can shelter her from it Kay.
It always exists. On so many levels.
darwin, I would just put my daughter in whatever activity she has a passion for. Could take awhile to find though. My son has been through hockey, soccer, baseball...until we figured out that he just doesn't like to be so aggressive...he tried cubs but it still wasn't his thing, this year we finally found that guitar lessons were it.
For the bigger picture, I might hope that organized sports would decrease gender role gaps so that girls don't have to be so damn sly and subtle and mean. I don't know, either way, its a helluvalot better than cheerleading...
__________
This is the war and not the warning. |
Edited by - Carolynanna on 05/11/2005 12:39:33 |
|
|
|
kathryn
~ Selkie Bride ~
Belgium
15320 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2005 : 12:42:20
|
Guitar! Cool!!!!!!!!!!!
(you're right, Carolyn, I know, I know. But while I can stop the bullshit, I will)
I still believe in the excellent joy of the Catholics |
|
|
|
Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2005 : 12:48:53
|
I do hear ya though.
There's been a couple of times I've picked up my daughter and had to bite my tongue. You just feel like letting off - You little bitch! If you ever speak like that to my daughter again....
__________
This is the war and not the warning. |
Edited by - Carolynanna on 05/11/2005 12:49:10 |
|
|
|
kathryn
~ Selkie Bride ~
Belgium
15320 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2005 : 12:54:36
|
True. But I'd never say a thing to a kid...or to a parent. I'm
Machiavellian in my own way in that I just quietly go about
my own business. Anyway that's cool about your son
discovering a love of guitar! Who knows what Jonas
is gonna be into? I bet these days you're thinking
"soccer"?!
I still believe in the excellent joy of the Catholics |
|
|
|
darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2005 : 12:57:17
|
So when you were being picked on in school did your parents know it was happening or did you keep it from them? I'm wondering because I can't imagine letting that drag on with my daughter. But, she's only 6 and I'm probably overestimating how much I could make it stop or coach her to rise above it.
Sports (kind of off topic, but relates to Kathryn's experience): soccer in Davis is coed in the Spring and seperate teams for boys and girls in the Fall. I've heard a lot parents say how great they think it is to have coed teams, but as father of a daughter and a coach I have to disagree (I think it both ways is probably the best solution). The girl teams seem much more united and having more fun than the coed teams. And, boys even at the age of 6 and 7 tend to dominate the games. They tend to be less afraid of the ball and get into the scrums and hack away at the ball. So, I think the girls have more fun on their own. |
|
|
|
Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2005 : 12:57:22
|
In my belly, you bet :)
__________
This is the war and not the warning. |
|
|
|
mosleyk
= Cult of Ray =
USA
607 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2005 : 13:02:31
|
APL, I feel for you. I am so glad you were able to leave that high school. I also find myself much more comfortable in one on one female friendships. Packs of women make me uncomfortable more often than not. Although, the older I get the more I just don't give a rip.
Onto Darwin's question. I don't know if an increase in girl sports has anything to do with it. At least not in my experience. Here is a listing of the athletic activities I was involved in high school. Varisity Volleyball, JV Softball, Captain of the Dance Team and Cheerleadering. In my high school danceteam and cheerleading wasn't voted by the school for membership. You tried out and the coaches decided who made it.
I enjoyed those activities and that is why I did them, but trust me...there was nothing highly social about it. Just because you were a cheerleader or on varisty volleyball did not give you a free pass to the "popular" table at lunch.
|
|
|
|
kathryn
~ Selkie Bride ~
Belgium
15320 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2005 : 13:05:31
|
darwin, a big factor in determining which arrangement is best
is the particular kid. Maybe your daughter will enjoy playing on a more united "team'" team or maybe she'll prefer
a more competitive environment. The most important factor is
your being attuned to her. As long as she knows that
you're aware of her and her needs, she'll be fine. She'll conquer the world or, mor importantly, she'll be happy inside her own skin all her years if she knows as a little girl that her dad's watching out for her.
I still believe in the excellent joy of the Catholics |
|
|
|
Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2005 : 13:11:15
|
Plus a dad's relationship with his daughter is the first male-female relationship a girl knows. And it determines so many things. Especially influencing their choice in male partners for themselves as they get older.
I remember totally freaking my husband out when we had our daughter, telling him things like you have alot of power when it comes to this little girl's self esteem and therefore her life...
On a semi-related note. My son went to a school for a couple years for kids with slight learning difficulties such as ADD. Now by the time some of the kids got to this school they were defeated. They felt like the stupidest kids on earth and some were real targets for bullies. One of the best things that happened is that they all took a course in emotions and bullying etc. They learned why these things occur and what it means. It was the best thing ever for my little guy.
__________
This is the war and not the warning. |
Edited by - Carolynanna on 05/11/2005 13:27:19 |
|
|
|
floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2005 : 13:25:32
|
quote:
Originally posted by darwin
I wonder if the increase in girl sports (soccer, lacrosse, field hockey, ect.) will help the problem? Will having the experience of being on a team and working together teach good lessons or does it just create more stratification and exclusion of some?
if anything, it will probably increase the number of physically fit girls coming out of high school and college, which is a positive thing right? |
|
|
|
Homers_pet_monkey
= Official forum monkey =
United Kingdom
17125 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2005 : 13:27:30
|
quote:
Originally posted by kathryn
I see tons of rail-thin girls on my local sports teams.
I still believe in the excellent joy of the Catholics
Even the wrestling team? Sumo?
Kim, will you do me the honour of being my wife?
|
|
|
|
apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2005 : 13:33:42
|
quote:
Originally posted by darwin
So when you were being picked on in school did your parents know it was happening or did you keep it from them? I'm wondering because I can't imagine letting that drag on with my daughter.
I'm not sure if you meant to direct that question to me or not, darwin, but I'll answer just in case. My parents were divorced when I was about 4 or 5, hard to determine since they were split for a while before. Neither were very good at parenting to say the least, I was in joint custody and moved back and forth every 2 or so weeks and by the time I was in 3rd or 4th grade they each had started seperate families and I was left in the middle, and told to choose which family to live with when I was 11. Let's just say that no one was making an effort to make me feel wanted. Plus, I think it's safe to say they were pretty insane/emotionally abusive etc. No intention of making this a sob story, just think it's important to your question - it was a severe lack of sense of family and home and all the moving around that occurred (houses, apartments, mom, dad, schools -it's all a blur) that kind of bred the lack of social skills. I felt different from the time I was attending preschool. Family and place and belonging are huge. At least it seems that way from the outside looking in. Kind of a chiicken and egg thing, but I can imagine it does make a difference.
Your concern as a father and your involvement should really help to foster a good environment for your daughter. It's so good to see all these great parents here, including yourself, as someone has already mentioned. |
|
|
|
darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2005 : 13:35:58
|
quote:
Originally posted by floop
quote:
Originally posted by darwin
I wonder if the increase in girl sports (soccer, lacrosse, field hockey, ect.) will help the problem? Will having the experience of being on a team and working together teach good lessons or does it just create more stratification and exclusion of some?
if anything, it will probably increase the number of physically fit girls coming out of high school and college, which is a positive thing right?
Is it a little twisted that I've always had a thing for physcial fit girls/women (particular soccer girls and their requesite ponytails) and now I'm encouraging my daughter to play soccer? Best not to think too much about that. |
|
|
|
Homers_pet_monkey
= Official forum monkey =
United Kingdom
17125 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2005 : 13:42:13
|
It's OK floop will for you.
Kim, will you do me the honour of being my wife?
|
|
|
|
apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2005 : 13:42:48
|
quote:
Originally posted by mosleyk
APL, I feel for you. I am so glad you were able to leave that high school. I also find myself much more comfortable in one on one female friendships. Packs of women make me uncomfortable more often than not. Although, the older I get the more I just don't give a rip.
Yeah, I hear ya. My problem is that I just don't seem to have many of the same interests, and I don't speak like most girls do. I am horrible at the flattery talk and the shoes and I hate shopping and oooh! look at my nails and she's a bitch or a slut or doesn't she act such and such a way, Sex and the City and blah blah etc etc. etc. haha, I can't even imagine the proper banter I'm so out of the loop.
I was fine pretty much when I was still in college and had plenty of friends with similar interests in the art community, now I'm out of my element in bumfuck middle Ohio and have a really hard time making small talk with SpudBoy's corporate coworkers' wives etc. It's horrific to me. Like I'm surrounded by alien Stepford beings. I used to want to try to figure it out and speak the language but I gave up when I stopped caring (around age 14) -all that cattyness and superficial banter wasn't a price I wanted to pay for being accepted, and I couldn't manage it anyway.
Sad thing is, even in the counterculture there is loads of this behavior, just with a different fashion behind it. Always a competition. |
Edited by - apl4eris on 05/11/2005 13:45:50 |
|
|
|
Homers_pet_monkey
= Official forum monkey =
United Kingdom
17125 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2005 : 13:48:10
|
I love the fact that the girls here don't fit into the stereotype of a girly girl. You're a great bunch, all of you.
Kim, will you do me the honour of being my wife?
|
|
|
|
floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2005 : 13:50:42
|
quote:
Originally posted by darwin
Is it a little twisted that I've always had a thing for physcial fit girls/women (particular soccer girls and their requesite ponytails) and now I'm encouraging my daughter to play soccer? Best not to think too much about that.
i have a personal theory (which i may post in the 'speculation' thread) that, as a whole, generally, women who play tennis have the best bodies
particularly from the reverse-angle..
(when it comes to steering the conversation in an intellectual direction, i am here for you guys) |
|
|
|
starmekitten
-= Forum Pistolera =-
United Kingdom
6370 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2005 : 13:58:34
|
When it comes to making the whole scenario worse you guys are fucking spot on sometimes, really, well done.
 Go and tell the king that the sky is falling in |
|
|
|
Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2005 : 14:00:27
|
Hear hear,
or it here here, oh dear.
__________
This is the war and not the warning. |
|
|
|
floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2005 : 14:01:14
|
quote:
Originally posted by starmekitten
When it comes to making the whole scenario worse you guys are fucking spot on sometimes, really, well done.
don't you know that anger isn't good for your complexion? |
|
|
|
Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2005 : 14:09:17
|
sigh
__________
This is the war and not the warning. |
|
|
|
mosleyk
= Cult of Ray =
USA
607 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2005 : 14:13:17
|
quote:
Originally posted by apl4eris
quote:
Originally posted by mosleyk
APL, I feel for you. I am so glad you were able to leave that high school. I also find myself much more comfortable in one on one female friendships. Packs of women make me uncomfortable more often than not. Although, the older I get the more I just don't give a rip.
Yeah, I hear ya. My problem is that I just don't seem to have many of the same interests, and I don't speak like most girls do. I am horrible at the flattery talk and the shoes and I hate shopping and oooh! look at my nails and she's a bitch or a slut or doesn't she act such and such a way, Sex and the City and blah blah etc etc. etc. haha, I can't even imagine the proper banter I'm so out of the loop.
I was fine pretty much when I was still in college and had plenty of friends with similar interests in the art community, now I'm out of my element in bumfuck middle Ohio and have a really hard time making small talk with SpudBoy's corporate coworkers' wives etc. It's horrific to me. Like I'm surrounded by alien Stepford beings. I used to want to try to figure it out and speak the language but I gave up when I stopped caring (around age 14) -all that cattyness and superficial banter wasn't a price I wanted to pay for being accepted, and I couldn't manage it anyway.
Sad thing is, even in the counterculture there is loads of this behavior, just with a different fashion behind it. Always a competition.
I know exactly what you are saying. I think you nailed it with one word "competition" It absolutely is the quickest way to suffering.
|
|
|
|
Topic |
|
Bitches
