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PixieSteve
> Teenager of the Year <
Poland
4698 Posts |
 Posted - 04/02/2005 : 10:53:08
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yeah but there are just as many people, if not more if divorce rate is 60%, who say the opposite.
lolzabad |
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PixieSteve
> Teenager of the Year <
Poland
4698 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2005 : 10:55:37
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and anyway, surely it's not the "marriage" that's great, but the relationship. jedi, i know there are certain legal advantages to marriage, but what is so great about your marriage that wouldn't be so if you weren't legally married?
lolzabad |
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VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2005 : 13:00:06
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I don't know that marriage in and of itself is outdated, but I think marriage as a sacred institution is a relic of the time when excommunication was the most dreadful punishment you could face. Fundamentalists are holding on to the idea as tightly as they possibly can, but what with "civil unions" coming into prominence in some countries, I have to wonder how much longer the idea of "pay the preacher, and your union will be acceptable in the eyes of God, and for some reason you'll get tax breaks despite the separation of church and state" will remain. I mean, I'm sure churches will continue with it, because they're generally loath to change. But I'm hoping we'll get to a point when the religious notion of marriage is separated from secular legal concepts.
"Reunion? Shit union!" |
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zub_the_goat
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
639 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2005 : 13:54:31
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to me personally marraige seems like an empty institution...im not religious therefore wouldnt see myself as living in sin....i guess to me its things like wearing a white wedding dress implies purity, but in all honesty how many brides are actually virgins...the whole thing seems hypocritical....im not going to dismiss me ever getting married, if it was just a gesture, or to make family happy, but not because i felt i needed to to justify myself and my relationship and if one of my friends told me she was getting married to a nice guy id be happy for her...on the other hand ive seen friends of mine marry utter creeps because they make them feel wanted.
I wish i had a wooden heart that i could set on fire... |
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danjersey
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
2792 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2005 : 20:51:37
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it's the weight of the word
making plans
invites
the BIG NIGHT
one day
it's the NEW YEARS EVE of love.
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2005 : 22:28:30
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I'm don't how they came up with the number but in 1997 the estimated probability of a new marriage in the US ending in divorce was 43%.
http://www.divorcemag.com/statistics/statsUS.shtml
I think this number has been going down since the 80s. |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2005 : 10:53:31
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| Another topic killed. |
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starmekitten
-= Forum Pistolera =-
United Kingdom
6370 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2005 : 10:56:51
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thats a very interesting statistic and encouraging for all the soppy types.
 I joined the cult of Derek/ because Dereks don't run |
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PixieSteve
> Teenager of the Year <
Poland
4698 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2005 : 11:00:47
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yep, 43% is really encouraging..?
lolzabad |
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starmekitten
-= Forum Pistolera =-
United Kingdom
6370 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2005 : 11:05:53
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well it's less than 60 and is going down, thats encouraging
I joined the cult of Derek/ because Dereks don't run |
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Homers_pet_monkey
= Official forum monkey =
United Kingdom
17125 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2005 : 11:06:31
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It's just upto the individual, do what you wanna do, what feels right for you. I think it's that simple really. The dickheads that do it for the wrong reasons will probably do it anyway, no matter how much anyone else tries ot talk them out of it. Marriage is neither right nor wrong, it's the reasons behind each individual case that are. As a concept it is fine, just an extra commitment, but in no way necessary. I don't think anyone could possibly put an argument forward for marriage being essential or totally wrong, it's neither. It's like having a child, if you are doing it for all the right reasons then great, if you are doing it for the wrong reasons then you are an ass, and if you don't want to do it at all then that is fine.
Hansel and Gretel have formed a band, .....And You Will Know Us By The Trail Of Breadcrumbs!!!
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kathryn
~ Selkie Bride ~
Belgium
15320 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2005 : 11:47:24
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Most people do most things for all the wrong reasons.
 I still believe in the excellent joy of the Catholics |
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Homers_pet_monkey
= Official forum monkey =
United Kingdom
17125 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2005 : 12:19:31
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It's why I prefer animals.
Hansel and Gretel have formed a band, .....And You Will Know Us By The Trail Of Breadcrumbs!!!
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starmekitten
-= Forum Pistolera =-
United Kingdom
6370 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2005 : 12:24:36
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eww
I joined the cult of Derek/ because Dereks don't run |
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Homers_pet_monkey
= Official forum monkey =
United Kingdom
17125 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2005 : 12:44:14
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Must admit, I didn't think it would be Kitty to bite first.
Hansel and Gretel have formed a band, .....And You Will Know Us By The Trail Of Breadcrumbs!!!
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kathryn
~ Selkie Bride ~
Belgium
15320 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2005 : 13:00:13
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Kittie's sigatar bothers me, almost as much
as your confession of bestiality.
I still believe in the excellent joy of the Catholics |
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Daisy Girl
~ Abstract Brain ~
Belize
5305 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2005 : 13:02:01
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quote:
[i] I personally don't see why I need a piece of paper to validate my relationship, but clearly society does. The difference in the way I am treated when people find out I am married is amusing. (I don't wear a wedding ring which is possibly why some people don't believe me). What I do find quite frightening is the amount of women (and a couple of men) who seem to want to get married purely so they can have a wedding - a concept I find utterly astounding. They seem to have lost sight of what marriage is all about.
I think a big thing for us to get married was health insurance-- you can't have a domestic parner in most cases that can get inurance. I think as long as two people love each other-- thats the only conformation you should need.
Definately we wanted a spiritual ceremony recognizing our commitment for each other.
However, I wanted something small and on the beach. The family took over and I let them... they had more "dreams" and ideals for the whole thing-- so I just let them drive it. I did get to pick out some of the flowers, so I thought was my favorite part as well as some funky invitations. Looking back, my favorite part was the fact that the two of us wrote the whole wedding ceremony. But actually, I went ahead with the whole thing because it was more important for my family to have it that way and it wasn't to me important enough to fight over.
But luckily I was still at least able to keep it small. I still hate looking at my wedding pictures because I hated the wedding dress but it was a necessacary evil for the traditional wedding that was planned for us. It's also hard to look at them because it kinda feels like looking at someone elses wedding. But if I do look at the pictures, we do look so very happy and so do our friends and family and that's the best part.  |
Edited by - Daisy Girl on 04/03/2005 13:10:23 |
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Homers_pet_monkey
= Official forum monkey =
United Kingdom
17125 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2005 : 13:14:08
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quote:
Originally posted by kathryn
Kittie's sigatar bothers me, almost as much
as your confession of bestiality.
I still believe in the excellent joy of the Catholics
Yeah I expected it more from you. I guess you shouldn't be too unhappy with second place.
Hansel and Gretel have formed a band, .....And You Will Know Us By The Trail Of Breadcrumbs!!!
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n/a
deleted
4109 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2005 : 14:37:50
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Marriage = Good
But you must try it to know how it is.
I am a lost soul
I shoot myself with rock and roll
The hole i dig is bottomless
But nothing else can set me free |
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benji
> Teenager of the Year <
New Zealand
3426 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2005 : 18:29:23
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well i'm all for marriage.
i've only been married for less than 2 years, but i consider it the best decision of my life. it just seemed the natural step for me and mrs benji, even tho we'd only been together for less than a year.
but persoanlly, i don't give a shit what society says about marriage. if you want to spend the rest of your life with a certain person and you like the idea of being married, then get married, and if you don't then don't. simple as that. i love wearing a wedding ring and telling people i'm married. i still get a thrill thinking that my wife loves me enough to put up with me for the rest of our lives. and i love her all the more for it.
 Join the Cult of Cartman! Respect my Authoritaah!!! |
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coastline
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3111 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2007 : 07:13:49
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quote:
Originally posted by benji
well i'm all for marriage.
i've only been married for less than 2 years, but i consider it the best decision of my life. it just seemed the natural step for me and mrs benji, even tho we'd only been together for less than a year.
but persoanlly, i don't give a shit what society says about marriage. if you want to spend the rest of your life with a certain person and you like the idea of being married, then get married, and if you don't then don't. simple as that. i love wearing a wedding ring and telling people i'm married. i still get a thrill thinking that my wife loves me enough to put up with me for the rest of our lives. and i love her all the more for it.
Join the Cult of Cartman! Respect my Authoritaah!!!
I second every word benji said, especially the last part. My wife and I have been married 10 years today. I won't say it's easy -- not a single day of it -- but for us, it's been worth it. Funny thing about marriage, though: When you commit to it, you haven't the faintest clue what you're committing to; you just make this leap of faith that it's what you should do. For some people, it doesn't work out. For us, it has.
 Please pardon me, for these my wrongs. |
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Dallas
= Cult of Ray =
USA
725 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2007 : 11:38:11
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For those interested, the "divorce rate = 50-60%" comment is at best a myth, at worse a purposeful manipulation of statistics to prove a point.
The ratio is calculated by taking the total # of Divorces in a given year and dividing it by the # of marriages from that same year. So, you can see it is a hollow statistic at best. You are using 1 years worth of new marriages vs the unsuccesful marriages that took place over decades potentially.
well heres a better explanation than I could give:
"So, if you looked at all the marriages and divorces within a single year, you'd find that there were twice as many marriages as divorces. In 1981, for example, there were 2.4 million marriages and 1.2 million divorces. At first glance, that would seem like a 50-percent divorce rate.
Virtually none of those divorces were among the people who had married during that year, however, and the statistic failed to take into account the 54 million marriages that already existed, the majority of which would not see divorce."
So in 1981, take the 54MM existing marriages against the 1.2MM divorces and you have a better (yet still not completely accurate) estimation.
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Dallas
= Cult of Ray =
USA
725 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2007 : 11:44:41
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Personally, I have seen this one from both sides. I 'dated' the same woman for 10-11 years before I married her. Looking back, it was the stupidest thing I have ever done. Waiting that long that is.
My wife was my HS sweetheart, so, I had bought into the common wisdom that you don't meet your wife in HS, that if you marry young you are being dumb or missing out on something. For me at least, all that created was a period of my life that looking back now had no real meaning. I was likely trying to hang on to something that was already gone.
Now I am 41 with an 8, 4 and 2 year old and a unbelievable wife. I wouldn't trade my place in life now for anything, but, I do wish I had gotten on with adult hood much, much sooner. I can't believe my wife waited for me to grow up, but, she knew all along where we would end up I guess. Looking back I had no idea what I was risking by putting our life off.
After we got married, we waited 4 years or so to have kids. Another bow to conventional wisdom. Again, at least for me, I wish we had gotten on with it.
The End. |
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coastline
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3111 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2007 : 11:56:25
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The U.S. Centers for Disease Control says that in 2005, the marriage rate was 7.5 per 1,000 total population and the divorce rate was 3.6 per 1,000 population. No, those aren't the same people getting married and divorced, but comparing the two rates is a fair way to judge the potential success of a marriage. You can infer a lot more about the possibility of the marriage lasting forever from that number than you can by this statement:
quote:
Originally posted by Dallas
So in 1981, take the 54MM existing marriages against the 1.2MM divorces and you have a better (yet still not completely accurate) estimation.
That tells you how many of those 54 million failed in that one year, but it tells you little of the chance that they will fail at some point in time.
Here's a safe prediction, though: Dallas and I will continue to be happy in our respective marriages, despite our seeing the statistics differently. I think our divorce rate over the next 50 years will be 0. Congrats on your happiness, Dallas. If it's anything like mine, it's worth celebrating. (Which we're doing tonight here.)
Please pardon me, for these my wrongs. |
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speedy_m
= Frankofile =
Canada
3581 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2007 : 12:30:01
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I can't imagine why you would consider the divorve rate, whatever figures you use or believe, when considering marriage. It's not like renting a movie or eating at a restaurant. If you want to spend the rest of your life with someone, you marry them because in our society that's the accepted norm, and it carries a lot of legal benefits with it. Marriages don't fail because "marriage" is a failure as an insitution or legal arrangment, but because those people either weren't meant to be together, or failed in their relationship.
Of course, I'm not married, nor have I ever been, so that's all easy for me to say. And I just got engaged, so I need to stay positive about these things.
www.myspace.com/wewereloversmusic |
Edited by - speedy_m on 08/16/2007 12:31:00 |
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benji
> Teenager of the Year <
New Zealand
3426 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2007 : 12:49:05
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i'd be curious to find out whether anyone who posted on this topic 2 years ago has either got married or got divorced?
we could produce our own fb.net marriage/divorce statistics
could end up with some profound statement like "fans of frank black are 'x'% less likely to be divorced than the general population"
might get the big man some more fans....
i'll start: well mrs benji and i have just passed the 4 year mark....
and congrats speedy....i enjoy being married much more than being engaged so you got it all to look forward too.
all i can say, thank god for polio! brian |
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Broken Face
-= Forum Pistolero =-
USA
5155 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2007 : 12:51:22
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quote:
Originally posted by speedy_m
I can't imagine why you would consider the divorve rate, whatever figures you use or believe, when considering marriage. It's not like renting a movie or eating at a restaurant. If you want to spend the rest of your life with someone, you marry them because in our society that's the accepted norm, and it carries a lot of legal benefits with it. Marriages don't fail because "marriage" is a failure as an insitution or legal arrangment, but because those people either weren't meant to be together, or failed in their relationship.
Of course, I'm not married, nor have I ever been, so that's all easy for me to say. And I just got engaged, so I need to stay positive about these things.
www.myspace.com/wewereloversmusic
Welcome to the fold - congrats, my friend.
And I will be married in a few weeks, and this thread did nothing to persuade/dissuade me.
- Brian |
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Jefrey
= Cult of Ray =
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2007 : 13:19:22
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I avoided getting married for quite a long time (8 years) because the social pressures as well as other social things (rentals for the same exact thing costing 3 times as much for a wedding than any other function, for example) that pissed me off.
I always felt "married" to my wife, without any ceremony or legal state certificate, and that feeling hasn't changed just because we went through some ceremony.
However, as a new father - I can now see how proud parents must be to see their kids grow up, graduate, get their first job, get married, etc. and they want to share in ever part of it. Marriage is very much a public declaration of two people committing to each other. I finally gave in because it didn't matter much to me either way, but it did seem to matter to a lot of other people. To see them all happy and proud for us was very nice.
I do believe the divorce rate is going down because people are generally also getting married later in life when they can make mature decisions. If you truly believe it to be lifelong commitment, you'd better be sure, and you'd better be prepared to work hard to make it work!
So to say "fuck the social pressure" - well, yes and no. If it really doesn't make a difference to you, why not make some people happy? I don't think it was making me truly any happier to be saying "fuck society and my parents" all those years.
BTW - we've now been together for 15 years - married for 7.
== jeffamerica == |
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Dallas
= Cult of Ray =
USA
725 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2007 : 13:27:12
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Coastline your ratios have the same issue, they are measuring the event within a certain time frame. So, the marriage stat per capita is over some period, like a year (correct me if I am wrong) measured against the # of divorces over the same time period, yet pulling that population from 54MM married people over many years (if you believe the 54mm #). So, I am sticking to my guns on this one, divorce rate is nowhere near 40% let alone 50-60.
Agree with your conclusions and descriptions of married life. It ain't a bed of roses always, but, it still is the most rewarding aspect of my life. |
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coastline
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3111 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2007 : 13:35:30
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If we had the stats for the last, say, 50 years -- divorce rates and marriage rates -- then we could accurately predict the chances of a marriage today failing within one, five, 10 or 20 years, or any another arbitrary figure. Without seeing all those numbers, and figuring out the trends, all we can do is make a gross estimate. And what I'm saying is that comparing 7.6 and 3.2 gives you a lot better estimate than 54 million vs. 1.2 million.
Please pardon me, for these my wrongs. |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2007 : 13:48:26
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I think what you want (please excuse me if I'm repeating what has already been said) is a divorce hazard rate that would give an annual probability that a marriage that survived x years ends that year with a divorce. But then to see how that rate is changing over generations you would want to make the calculation for marriages that started at different times (like the 70s versus the 90s). Then you could say the probability of marriage surviving to 10 years, 20, ect. has changed over the decades. I bet the hazard rate typically declines with a spike around 20 years when the kids go to college.
An easier calculation would be to say how many marriages that started in the 70s versus the 90s survive for at least 10 years.
Me: married for 11 years.
This signature moderated courtesy Cult of Frank. |
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Jefrey
= Cult of Ray =
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2007 : 15:41:20
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There are surely just as many views on marriage as religion and politics.
It does seem that there is a trend towards either not getting married at all, or getting married and taking it seriously as a commitment. But ideas of relationships are changing all the time. Gay marriage and families weren't even really discussed much until the last decade, but now, even though they don't have the same status yet as hetero marriages, we still acknowledge and discuss how same sex partnerships can affect childraising. Also unmarried couples with children don't seem to be as taboo as they were 20 or 30 years ago. You can have a happy and thriving family with or without marriage.
I don't know if the stats really mean much - there are just too many factors to consider. Every person and relationship and world view comes into play, and everyone has a different experience of life.
== jeffamerica == |
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Dallas
= Cult of Ray =
USA
725 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2007 : 17:39:33
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"what I'm saying is that comparing 7.6 and 3.2 gives you a lot better estimate than 54 million vs. 1.2 million."
I guess you are saying that because your ratio is more recent? Other than that it is as equally inaccurate in estimating the divorce rate in 1985 as the numbers I showed was for 1981. |
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coastline
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3111 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2007 : 18:25:31
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You and I wouldn't make a very good couple, Dallas.
Please pardon me, for these my wrongs. |
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Dallas
= Cult of Ray =
USA
725 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2007 : 19:06:38
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| I'd put our chances at about 7.6 out of 54 million... |
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Topic |
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marriage vs. not marrying
