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El Barto
= Song DB Master =
USA
4020 Posts |
 Posted - 01/01/2003 : 18:43:25
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| I was being sarcastic. I think all this digital recording is bullshit. <can of worms> if you can't play an instrument, don't fake it. It just doesn't seem very authentic anymore...not very real. I guess nobody cares about authenticity or human labor when it comes to the arts anymore...it's very disappointing. I have a grudge against this shit. |
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2003 : 19:20:46
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Gee Jim - i look at it as empowering.
Almost all your fav. bands use significant amounts of technology. You think Dave Grohl really played the drums on 'Nevermind' all the way through??
Would you rather have off-time instruments in songs?
Obvious mistakes, that you hear every time you listen to a song?
Do you sit there, bitter, every time you listen to any album? Imagine if the Beatles left Ringo on drums for the first few albums...
There's already so much shit out there, why degrade what isn't??
Just because i can't sit on a drumkit and play something cool or even in time, doesn't mean i'm insincere by programming a beat i thought up in my head.
Miked - i dunno what's happening with Absynth. Since you've got other VSTi's going, i don't see why it won't work. Maybe uninstall and reinstall it, or try a different version.. |
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Visiting Sasquatch
= Cult of Ray =
USA
451 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2003 : 19:47:06
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| El Barto is going to have Kim Deal's "Recorded All Wave" logo on his next hit album. |
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fallus
- FB Fan -
Belgium
94 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2003 : 01:27:22
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quote:
Originally posted by El Barto
I was being sarcastic. I think all this digital recording is bullshit. <can of worms> if you can't play an instrument, don't fake it. It just doesn't seem very authentic anymore...not very real. I guess nobody cares about authenticity or human labor when it comes to the arts anymore...it's very disappointing. I have a grudge against this shit.
So you don't consider sequencing a song human labor? I think it's all about music, which has to sound good. It doesn't really matter how you achieve it, as long as the end-result is good.
I can play bass guitar, but I can't play the guitar very well. So if I record a song, I just play ans sample the guitar untill I have one loop that sounds good enough, and then I repeat it. I sequence the drums because I'm not a drummer, and I don't have a drumkit. These are just demo's and I intend to play these songs with my band, but digital recording can be very helpfull. The fact that Frank Black likes two track recording these days, doesn't mean other ways of doing it are inferior. It works for him, but it doesn't work for everybody, or for all types of music.
If I have a song in my head, I want to record it. The way I record it doesn't change how good or bad it is. If I played live to two-track, my songs would still be as bad as they are now :)
This is not a signature. |
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mdisanto
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1140 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2003 : 03:44:49
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jim, im not even talking about sampling. i want the grand because i cant afford a grand piano (or piano in general) but i can afford a midi controller. i still have to be able to play piano to use it. i dont sample my guitar parts or whatever, id rather just playit right all the way through or do it over, or just file it under a "demo" and allow mistakes.
-miked |
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El Barto
= Song DB Master =
USA
4020 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2003 : 11:55:20
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Of course Dave Grohl played all the drums on Nevermind, he's an amazing drummer. If you're trying to tell me they used digital magic to make it happen...
Imperfections and quirks in songs become a part of the song. If it's a huge obvious mistake, then it should be redone. I highly doubt every song on every album has perfect metronome (sp?) timing, and if it doesn't, so what? You can barely tell if it goes off time very slightly, and if it's too obvious then just do another take. They did record albums back before all this digital shit came out, remember? So how did they do it? Talent.
I admire old recordings the most, especially elaborate stuff like Pet Sounds and Sgt. Pepper. They did that shit with 1 tracks, 2 tracks, 3 tracks, 4 tracks. At that time, 8 tracks were barely available, and I don't think they used more than 4 tracks. It takes skill to put all of that wonderful sound onto just 4 tracks. These days with digital there are infinite tracks. How wonderful, less thought and effort, just slop everything down, we have more than enough space.
Oh, and this has nothing to do with the fact that FB&TC record live to 2 tracks. I've always had these sentiments, even before I discovered them.
Technology be the death of us. |
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Atheist4Catholics
= Cult of Ray =
USA
925 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2003 : 12:27:17
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quote:
Originally posted by El Barto
Of course Dave Grohl played all the drums on Nevermind, he's an amazing drummer. If you're trying to tell me they used digital magic to make it happen...
I admire old recordings the most, especially elaborate stuff like Pet Sounds and Sgt. Pepper. They did that shit with 1 tracks, 2 tracks, 3 tracks, 4 tracks. At that time, 8 tracks were barely available, and I don't think they used more than 4 tracks. It takes skill to put all of that wonderful sound onto just 4 tracks. These days with digital there are infinite tracks. How wonderful, less thought and effort, just slop everything down, we have more than enough space.
Technology be the death of us.
First of all . . Almost everyone lines up the drums a bit or in some cases they'll punch the drums in to fix sections. Unless you're Mr Session Guy drummer whose heart beats a perfect 120 BPM, you need to tighten things up a bit so they stand up to scrutiny after a hundred listenings. Or you just do a hundred takes and edit together the good parts . . .
Second, it's a fallacy that because albums like Pet Sounds were recorded on 4 track machines that they were more "honest" recordings. Having fewer tracks just meant more bouncing of tracks. Brian Wilson would record four tracks and then bounce them to one track on another 4 track machine. Then he'd record three more tracks and bounce them to one track on the first 4 track machine, etc. It's more difficult to do, but you essentially have unlimited tracks. You can also sync multiple multi-track machines together. Digital technology just means you can have 96 tracks without the headache of trying to sync four 24 track machines or the loss of fidelity through bouncing.
I'll agree that most artists these days use digital recording as a crutch. My friend was working at Right Track in NYC when Fuel was recording their last album and they would record dozens upon dozens of guitar parts for each song with the intent of picking and choosing during the mix. It's a very cowardly way to work.
Don't get me started on pitch correction. I can't bear listening to the radio anymore because all I hear is the Antares pitch corrector. Can anyone tell me why someone would put pitch correction on an Allison Krauss vocal? She nails it every time, but producers are too scared to leave it alone because it's become such a staple of modern pop radio. It drives me nuts! 
www.mp3.com/clootie |
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Atheist4Catholics
= Cult of Ray =
USA
925 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2003 : 12:34:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave Noisy
I believe another good general tip when working with the EQ is to try and avoid boosting a frequency.. If you can get the same effect by dropping other levels, go for it.
This isn't a rule of course, but a good guideline..there will always be instances where you'll wanna boost of course.
Dave this is absolutely right. The reason behind it is that when you boost, you hear more of the EQ's artifact in the sound.
Sometimes if you're using a really nice tube EQ, the artifact can be a good thing and you'll want to boost.
www.mp3.com/clootie |
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2003 : 14:00:44
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heh.. If Dave Grohl is so good, why did Kurt come up with all the drum parts? (This may be a false rumor, but i'm pretty sure i've read it in a book..)
At the point of Nevermind, Grohl was most certainly not a very good drummer. He was just really agressive, as i understand it, and Kurt liked that.
If you take almost ANY album, find the tempo and sync along a metronome, you will find without fail they're almost all perfect.
Except for live recordings, i doubt there's a drummer who doesn't use a click track. |
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mdisanto
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1140 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2003 : 15:09:51
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yah, only like jazz drummers can get away with it becuase theyare supposed to be perfectly in time. click tracks rule except they are hard to play along to if you play loudly, it gets lost even with the headphones hah.
-miked |
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El Barto
= Song DB Master =
USA
4020 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2003 : 16:26:40
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| Oh my, you're calling Dave Grohl a bad drummer? Man, he's one of the best drummers of modern rock. Kurt felt that he was perfect for Nirvana because he had "perfect metronome timing" and hit really hard. He's an amazing drummer, and I can't believe you're saying he's less than that. At the point of Nevermind, he had been drumming for years. As far as Kurt coming up with the drum parts (Kurt was a drummer before he picked up a guitar), while that may be true, it doesn't make Dave any less of a drummer. And I'm sure Dave added extra spice to the drum parts. |
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pataphysician1
- FB Fan -
USA
48 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2003 : 19:27:26
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Ah; more advice here than I expected. And good advice, too. Doubt I have much to add at this point. p
http://mp3.com/Pablo_Brazil |
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2003 : 20:56:32
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hmm..i dunno.. I never said he 'is' a bad drummer, my impression was around Nevermind he wasn't particularly good.
Regardless, i'm sure it was recorded in many takes, and digitally edited to 'tighten' it, just like every other rock album released. |
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Visiting Sasquatch
= Cult of Ray =
USA
451 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2003 : 21:57:21
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| I'd say Nicholas Barker is the best drummer in modern rock! He's an octopus, I've heard! |
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johndietzel
= Cult of Ray =
Burkina Faso (Upper Volta)
464 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2003 : 22:32:53
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El B:
I take it you don't hide behind the tech crutch of electricity for making your guitars sound cooler, or to provide that unnatural bite to the sound of a bass guitar, or to amplify your voice that isn't quite strong enough to be heard over those loud, organic drums. I also assume you whittle all your instruments out of blocks of wood with sharp rocks, and kill all the neighborhood cats to make strings for them.
Seriously though, I can't imagine how nerve-grindingly maddening it would be to constantly police, even elevate, the process of making art to be more prominent than the actual end product. I would go nuts.
I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I am always intrigued by the changing level of ability for technology to be able to emulate nature. Like I have trouble with CGI heavy movies because almost without exception, they look too fake to be believable--it's just distracting. But that is a concern with the ends and not the means.
I'm just saying lighten up about being a stickler for stuff that is so independent of what makes art good. I'll take TMBG's "Lincoln" over some hippie and his acoustic any day.
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"Lance Hunt wears glasses. Captain Amazing doesn't wear glasses."--William "the Shoveler" Macy |
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