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Cheeseman1000
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Iceland
8201 Posts |
 Posted - 01/19/2004 : 09:49:17
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I'm listening to Elvis Costello's first album (My Aim Is True), and its difficult not to consider Mr C as the greatest British songwriter ever. But then you go through the list and you've got Ray Davies, Roger Waters, and more pertinently Lennon and MacCartney.
So who do you think is the greatest songwriter, British or not, ever?
A few suggestions to kick you off (aside from the above):
Johnny Cash
Tom Waits
Alex Chilton
Neil Young
Bob Dylan
Leonard Cohen
Elliot Smith
Any more?
 "I joined the Cult Of Cheese/E-Damn!" |
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mun chien andalusia
= Quote Accumulator =
Italy
2139 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2004 : 09:55:43
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Lou Reed maybe?
 join the cult of errol\and you can have a beer\without having to quit smoking
www.superabound.altervista.org |
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Adnan_le_Terrible
* Dog in the Sand *
France
1973 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2004 : 09:56:55
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Nick Drake? Tim Buckley?
Now virtually everyone's singing a Pixies song / But I still believe in the excellent joy of Frank Black |
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Cheeseman1000
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Iceland
8201 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2004 : 09:57:17
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Cool. Brian Wilson, I forgot.
"I joined the Cult Of Cheese/E-Damn!" |
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interloper
= Cult of Ray =
440 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2004 : 10:02:11
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Don't forget Bowie.
Hand held shower nozzles are the demon enemy of the patriarch and should be destroyed. |
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Cheeseman1000
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Iceland
8201 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2004 : 10:05:51
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Truth.
All good.
But which is the greatest?
I really can't choose between Nick Drake, John Lennon and Bob Dylan.
C'est tres dificile.
"I joined the Cult Of Cheese/E-Damn!" |
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interloper
= Cult of Ray =
440 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2004 : 10:07:28
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I think it would be hard to argue that Dylan does not hold the top spot in the pop/rock arena. Even though, without his lyrical prowess, his music wouldn't really go anywhere.
Hand held shower nozzles are the demon enemy of the patriarch and should be destroyed. |
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mun chien andalusia
= Quote Accumulator =
Italy
2139 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2004 : 10:15:12
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nick cave is must be in too.
join the cult of errol\and you can have a beer\without having to quit smoking
www.superabound.altervista.org |
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interloper
= Cult of Ray =
440 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2004 : 10:18:04
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Gotta throw in Andy Partridge as well.
Hand held shower nozzles are the demon enemy of the patriarch and should be destroyed. |
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GoddessTheory
= Cult of Ray =
USA
675 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2004 : 10:18:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Cheeseman1000
Truth.
All good.
But which is the greatest?
I really can't choose between Nick Drake, John Lennon and Bob Dylan.
C'est tres dificile.
"I joined the Cult Of Cheese/E-Damn!"
Though I'm partial to Lennon, Dylan would have to win that contest. Not enough people are aware of Nick Drake and just because he is a great songwriter, that doesn't award him the title. you must affect people with your work and Dylan and Lennon are the most well known, and Dylan trumps lennon as Lennon was a Dylan disciple. |
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GoddessTheory
= Cult of Ray =
USA
675 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2004 : 10:19:50
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quote:
Originally posted by interloper
Gotta throw in Andy Partridge as well.
Hand held shower nozzles are the demon enemy of the patriarch and should be destroyed.
Why does Andy say he dislikes Macca, but then writes just like him?
By the way, I HEART XTC.
I've just always wondered why this was the case. |
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ramona
"FB Quote Mistress"
USA
3988 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2004 : 10:20:19
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Bring the estrogen!
Aimee Mann
Liz Phair
Sinead O'Connor
Jen Trynin
DOLLY PARTON
And some boys not yet mentioned:
Lennon/McCartney
Billy Bragg
Morrisey
**************************************************
"Music does not drag me down. Music lifts me up." - Frank Black |
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interloper
= Cult of Ray =
440 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2004 : 10:23:19
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Oh, and by the way...Frank is every damn bit as good as any of those people...he's still just so overlooked up against the known ones. Especially post Pixies Frank. I think we all agree.
Adam Franklin from Swervedriver is the only other one I can think of that's sadly never gotten his due.
Hand held shower nozzles are the demon enemy of the patriarch and should be destroyed. |
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GoddessTheory
= Cult of Ray =
USA
675 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2004 : 10:23:57
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Aimee Mann makes me feel all butterfly inside. I think I am in love with her.
Her songs are so good it's scary. |
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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2004 : 10:27:43
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quote:
Originally posted by ramona
Bring the estrogen!
Aimee Mann
Liz Phair
Sinead O'Connor
Jen Trynin
DOLLY PARTON
Hey Em did you ever listen to the Lion and the Cobra? jooc |
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GoddessTheory
= Cult of Ray =
USA
675 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2004 : 10:29:35
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Just like You said it would Be is so so so good.
Mandinka. |
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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2004 : 10:32:54
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ooo, ooo, someone else knows it!
It is it is, I love that entire album sooo much.
Her voice amazes me. |
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Carl
- A 'Fifth' Catholic -
Ireland
11546 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2004 : 10:49:37
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Dylan is infatigable...he's still knockin' out decent songs. It's hard to choose, though...there's some talented artists out there.
CARL. |
Edited by - Carl on 01/19/2004 10:50:00 |
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GoddessTheory
= Cult of Ray =
USA
675 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2004 : 10:54:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Carolynanna
ooo, ooo, someone else knows it!
It is it is, I love that entire album sooo much.
Her voice amazes me.
I got it when it came out. Something just told me it'd be good. It also had Marco Pirroni as guitar player and I love Marco (of Adam Ant's Ants).
It's good to know that you like it too. It is so powerful I think. |
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Adnan_le_Terrible
* Dog in the Sand *
France
1973 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2004 : 11:34:26
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quote:
Originally posted by ramona
Bring the estrogen!
Aimee Mann
Liz Phair
Sinead O'Connor
Jen Trynin
DOLLY PARTON
And some boys not yet mentioned:
Lennon/McCartney
Billy Bragg
Morrisey
**************************************************
"Music does not drag me down. Music lifts me up." - Frank Black
Hey, Ramona, you forgot Suzanne Vega! How could you?
Now virtually everyone's singing a Pixies song / But I still believe in the excellent joy of Frank Black |
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Carl
- A 'Fifth' Catholic -
Ireland
11546 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2004 : 11:41:20
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Vega, the alien-commercial-college-girl
CARL. |
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Itchload
= Cult of Ray =
USA
891 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2004 : 12:05:20
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Michael Gira
Bob Pollard
Hard to say Johnny Cash, he might be one of the best song-cover-ers, but he only wrote about 10% of the songs he recorded. |
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GoddessTheory
= Cult of Ray =
USA
675 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2004 : 12:08:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Itchload
Hard to say Johnny Cash, he might be one of the best song-cover-ers, but he only wrote about 10% of the songs he recorded.
Um. Okay. Are you new to the planet? |
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your mamas a pretty thing
- FB Fan -
Canada
66 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2004 : 12:18:50
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joni mitchell
gordon lightfoot
getting less and less clever every day |
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Carl
- A 'Fifth' Catholic -
Ireland
11546 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2004 : 12:19:03
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I saw the video for Cash's version of N.I.N's 'Hurt' again the other night...still rockin' to the end.
CARL. |
Edited by - Carl on 01/19/2004 12:19:47 |
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Little Black Francis
> Teenager of the Year <
3648 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2004 : 12:59:25
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is this strictly lyrics? music? lyrics and music? lyrics or music?
that decides the greatest songwriter ever?
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your mamas a pretty thing
- FB Fan -
Canada
66 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2004 : 13:31:38
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beethoven
getting less and less clever every day |
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IceCream
= Quote Accumulator =
USA
1850 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2004 : 13:46:09
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My personal opinion is as follows.
I don't think Bob Dylan belongs in the greatest songwriter ever. Sure, he sinks deep into your skin with his words and feeling, but musically, he's not very complex (he ADMITS having written "Blowin' in the Wind" in ten minutes) or original (it's very heavily influenced by Woodie Guthrie).
Roger Waters - no. Yes, Waters did contribute to some excellent songs (Echoes, A Saucerful of Secrets), but I don't think he was responsible for the spaciness and trippiness that made the Floyd great. The greatest songwriter ever would not have written "Vera" or "Goodbye Cruel World"; I have yet to hear more uninteresting pieces of music to make it onto vinyl. I love Pink Floyd, but that's not entirely becuase of Waters. Syd Barrett or Rick Wright (I haven't got bored of Paintbox yet) would be a much more appropriate choice.
Itchload, you have a point, but the songs JC did write are as good as his covers; "He Turned the Water into Wine" and "The Man Comes Around" for example.
Interloper makes a good point. How can one deny Frank the possibility of being 'The Greatest Songwriter Ever' after he has written "Velouria", "Los Angeles", AND "His Kingly Cave"?
People seem to be avoiding jazz musicians; Miles Davis, anyone? (Also remember that it was Ron Carter wrote "Woolaphant" from the 1976 album Pastels by Ron Carter.) |
Edited by - IceCream on 01/19/2004 13:46:50 |
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JamesM
= Cult of Ray =
308 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2004 : 13:54:01
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Frank
Richard Thompson
Dylan
Bowie and Chilton are both excellent songwriters, but I think they'd be the first to tell you that they're performers first and song writers second.
-Jimmy M. |
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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2004 : 14:55:25
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quote:
Originally posted by JamesM
Frank
Richard Thompson
Dylan
Bowie and Chilton are both excellent songwriters, but I think they'd be the first to tell you that they're performers first and song writers second.
-Jimmy M.
I'm not sure. I heard Bowie say in an interview that the only reason he came up with Ziggy was because he was too shy/nervous to go on as himself and needed a persona. |
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Adnan_le_Terrible
* Dog in the Sand *
France
1973 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2004 : 15:08:26
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Acting is a performance, isn't it ?
However, I think Bowie is a very talented songwriter. That's why many artists cover his songs.
Round round, up and down, through the streets of your town. |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5456 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2004 : 15:09:37
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Paul Simon needs mentioning
I'm thinking of songwriting as lyrics, and thus I don't think of Miles Davis. I think of jazz or classical as compositions rather than songs. And if we're going to get into who writes great jazz compositions, I believe, the conversation starts and ends with Duke Ellington. No one even approaches his brilliance. I'm no Miles expert, but did he really compose many songs or was more often Gil Evans? |
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interloper
= Cult of Ray =
440 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2004 : 15:25:04
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quote:
Originally posted by darwin
Paul Simon needs mentioning
I'm thinking of songwriting as lyrics, and thus I don't think of Miles Davis. I think of jazz or classical as compositions rather than songs. And if we're going to get into who writes great jazz compositions, I believe, the conversation starts and ends with Duke Ellington. No one even approaches his brilliance. I'm no Miles expert, but did he really compose many songs or was more often Gil Evans?
As far as I know, all of the collaborations were Miles compositions, and Gil Evans scored the orchestral parts for them. I would have said Miles in a heartbeat, but I was assuming this was a question related to pop/rock people. If not however, then fuck Bob Dylan, Beethoven and Miles win. Miles is my favorite musician to ever walk the planet. His early electric records (Brew, Live Evil, Silent Way, Big Fun, etc) I think are amoung some of the greatest performances ever committed to tape. I love the pre-electric quintet stuff as well, but I really have a hankerin for 68 and on. I smell a Miles appreciation post.
Hand held shower nozzles are the demon enemy of the patriarch and should be destroyed. |
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Cheeseman1000
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Iceland
8201 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2004 : 15:45:41
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The man was certainly talented, but I don't think he counts as a songwriter so much as a composer, same as Beethoven (you'd be better off saying Schubert for songs).
As far as most of the rest of the opinion, I think there's very few artists who could have any sort of claim to 'greatest songriter ever'. Its a big deal if you put yourself in that category.
I also disagree with those who say that someone can be disqualified for not being original (e.g. Itchload, IceCream, GoddessTheory). There's no way you could discount John Lennon because he wrote some songs that sound like Bob Dylan. His body of work is some of the greatest music ever recorded, and thats beyond debate. Whether or not he sounds like Bob Dylan is irrelevant (same goes for Dylan and Guthrie).
Finally, IceCream, I don't really agree with you about Roger Waters. Maybe he didn't contribute as much to the sound of the Floyd as Gilmour or the others, but I prefer to look at songs like Comfortably Numb, Wish You Were Here, Shine On You Crazy Diamond or Fearless which prove his worth (remember that Dave Gilmour and the rest of the band have admitted not having a lot of input). However, all things considered I would agree that he's probably not the greatest ever, not consistent enough.
Blimey, look how much I wrote. I feel like Cult Of Frank.
"I joined the Cult Of Cheese/E-Damn!" |
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Adnan_le_Terrible
* Dog in the Sand *
France
1973 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2004 : 15:53:27
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Hey Cheesy, I see you get pretty inspired when it comes to saying how much you disagree with everybody.
Round round, up and down, through the streets of your town. |
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Cheeseman1000
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Iceland
8201 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2004 : 15:59:35
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Actually, I think you're wrong. Who asked you? I'm simply stating my opinions, and if I disagree I HAVE A RIGHT TO GET ANGRY!!!
DO I MAKE MYSELF CLEAR!!!
"I joined the Cult Of Cheese/E-Damn!" |
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