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pinko-commie-spaker
- FB Fan -
13 Posts |
 Posted - 12/19/2003 : 09:16:15
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does he like OUR healthcare system???
you have a problem with the healthcare system Stitches? |
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pinko-commie-spaker
- FB Fan -
13 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2003 : 09:16:52
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| Spaker is an inside joke, don't worry about it, I'm not really gonna explain |
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Bartholomew
= Cult of Ray =
USA
344 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2003 : 09:17:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Cult_Of_Frank
The problem with Wal-Mart is more that consumers continue to shop there. If people were more willing to pay an extra few dollars to buy it from an honorable establishment and if they themselves weren't driven so much by the almighty dollar (obviously we all are to some extent), places like Wal-Mart wouldn't exist. I'd rather buy at/patronize somewhere with a bit of heart myself, but how many of us still go there. Or to the big chain restaurants? Or electronics stores? Or ...? You could argue that maybe they're not hiring illegal immigrants, maybe they're not forcing out unions (which, incidentally, I am completely OK with), or using sweatshops in the heart of Africa, or maybe they are and you don't know it, but, well, I think you see my point...
Lumps of coal are great, but nothing is even better.
 "Join the Cult of Frank / And you'll be enlightened"
Good point COF. Walmart can not take over without our help. Though like you said, it’s getting hard to avoid shopping there. Especially here in rural America. Most of the downtowns of the small towns around me are more or less dead. The businesses have been forced to shut down. I guess the thing that bothers/SCARES me about Wal-Mart is that it’s not content to just take over one market like discount clothes and toys and the like. Now it’s gas, it’s tires, it’s groceries, it’s fucking haircuts for chrissakes. They are making it so you don’t have to go to any other store for anything. I can have a little respect for the major chain stores that specialize in mostly one area, like a Best Buy or Circuit City or something. At least they’re content in just taking over a share of the world. Wal-Mart seems to want to take over the whole world. |
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jimmy
= Cult of Ray =
USA
876 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2003 : 09:21:26
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| All I want to say is that anyone who doesn't want to shop there has a choice, they don't have to. And anyone who wants to get rid of Wal-Mart is free to open a store to compete with them. Wal-mart may be trying to get a monopoly but they are doing it the right way- by being the best at what they do. Local downtown stores are trying to get a monopoly by getting cities and towns to not allow Wal-Marts to open. It's very unsportsman-like. |
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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2003 : 09:23:09
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quote:
Originally posted by jimmy
And anyone who wants to get rid of Wal-Mart is free to open a store to compete with them.
I don't think so Jimmy, we already said no one is able to compete with them. |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2003 : 09:25:44
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Well, (speaking for the US, and somewhat tangentially, Canada*) this being a democratic republic, with a Bill of Rights, we just happen to be exercising our 1st ammendment right. So's we can say whats we thinks abouts silly old Wallie-world, mmmkay?
I think that settles it, then. <smooch>
:) ;)
::edit::*I just learned sumpin' new!:
"Section 2(b) of the Charter states that "Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms: ... freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication." The section potentially could cover a wide range of action, from commercial expression to political expression; from journalistic privilege to hate speech to pornography."...
You rock, Canada!!
 Swedish Chef's "Dumpling of Wisdom": Øder tis moodle in der noggin tu smacken der ouchey und vinger-slingers ur to smacken-backen und fix de morkin, yøobetcha! |
Edited by - apl4eris on 12/19/2003 09:33:06 |
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STITCHES
= Cult of Ray =
USA
915 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2003 : 09:26:59
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quote:
Originally posted by pinko-commie-spaker
does he like OUR healthcare system???
you have a problem with the healthcare system Stitches?
yes, as a matter of fact, I do. It's controlled not by patients or doctors, but by the insurance industry. They tell you as a patient which doctors you can and can't see, and they tell me as a healthcare provider how much (actually, how little is a much better term) my services are worth (and you might be surprised at how poorly we actually are paid by insurance). Add to that the fact that malpractice insurance has gone through the roof due to everyone's widespread litigiousness, and you have a medical field in trouble....
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MAMASAYMAMASAMAMACOOSA |
Edited by - STITCHES on 12/19/2003 09:28:41 |
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pinko-commie-spaker
- FB Fan -
13 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2003 : 09:33:32
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| you know what really bother me is that I have yo gove out my hard earned money to the Goverment, in the form of SS and medicare so they can give it out to people they deem who need it, if I could save that money, or even give it to my parents/grandparents, or anyone else in my famaly who might need it, and if eveyone in my famaily who worked could do that as well, then it would save more money in the long run. We as a famaily could afford to get them private insurance, or whtever they might need. I like a famaily that supports itself instead of hoping that everyone else would. I would like to be able to put away more money for my own retirement, but beinf a young single male, I get taxed like you wouldn't believe and it's hard to just scrape by sometimes, yet they still take my money and give it to whomever, while I eat a cup of noddles I got from Wal-mart. |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2003 : 09:35:56
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I hear that. Wait until you get into the upper tax brackets, then you can talk about gettin' taxed out the wah-zoo. I think we all would be happy to work to develop a better system than the one we have now.
::edit:: It's the illegal immigrants getting a free-ride and drivers' licenses, ss#'s and free healthcare, etc., that really get my goat. grrrr!
Swedish Chef's "Dumpling of Wisdom": Øder tis moodle in der noggin tu smacken der ouchey und vinger-slingers ur to smacken-backen und fix de morkin, yøobetcha! |
Edited by - apl4eris on 12/19/2003 09:37:04 |
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STITCHES
= Cult of Ray =
USA
915 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2003 : 09:37:16
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one day spaker was grocery shopping. He pushed his cart up to the checkout counter where there was an attractive young female cashier. He unloaded a 3liter bottle of generic soda, 4 microwave dinners, and cheap bread. As the cashier rang him up she said, "you must be single."
"How could you tell," he said.
"Cause you're fucking ugly"
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MAMASAYMAMASAMAMACOOSA |
Edited by - STITCHES on 12/19/2003 09:37:37 |
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jimmy
= Cult of Ray =
USA
876 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2003 : 09:39:02
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I think it all comes down to this: Either you believe that people have individual rights and and should be free shop where they want and are free to open their own businesses, or you believe that people don't have rights and and that you can go to the government so that they can outlaw your competion. I'd rather hear people say what side they're on than listen to people make emotional arguments, or complain that they can't compete with wal-Mart. As long as it's a free country, competition is possible- it just means you have to work harder, longer, and be more creative.
By the way, i don't like America's or Canada's health care systems, but I think America's is better. I don't believe anyone has a Right to free health care. I'm against medicare and medicaid and any government handout. Everyone should pay their own way, and if they can't then they should rely on VOLUNTARY charity, not my tax money. |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2003 : 09:39:58
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You better "watch yo' mouth!" STITCHES....
"Hey, I'm talkin' 'bout Shaft!"
Swedish Chef's "Dumpling of Wisdom": Øder tis moodle in der noggin tu smacken der ouchey und vinger-slingers ur to smacken-backen und fix de morkin, yøobetcha! |
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pinko-commie-spaker
- FB Fan -
13 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2003 : 09:40:49
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| I'm single in my taxable status, not in life, and anotherthing that bugs me is that same sex partners and put their partner on their insurance even though they are not consitered maried or anything, but I can't put my girlfriend on my insurance unless we are married by law, another strike agaisnt the heterosexual male |
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STITCHES
= Cult of Ray =
USA
915 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2003 : 09:42:22
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"another strike against the heterosexual male".....cause we're so oppressed in life
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MAMASAYMAMASAMAMACOOSA |
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pinko-commie-spaker
- FB Fan -
13 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2003 : 09:45:49
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| oh ya, I forgot that affermative action helps all thouse heterosexual males get all thouse jobs that they work so hard for |
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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2003 : 09:48:32
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quote:
Originally posted by apl4eris
You better "watch yo' mouth!" STITCHES....
"Hey, I'm talkin' 'bout Shaft!"
ya damn right! |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2003 : 09:50:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Carolynanna
quote:
Originally posted by apl4eris
You better "watch yo' mouth!" STITCHES....
"Hey, I'm talkin' 'bout Shaft!"
ya damn right!
;)
he's one baaad mutha-
Swedish Chef's "Dumpling of Wisdom": Øder tis moodle in der noggin tu smacken der ouchey und vinger-slingers ur to smacken-backen und fix de morkin, yøobetcha! |
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STITCHES
= Cult of Ray =
USA
915 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2003 : 09:51:06
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quote:
Originally posted by pinko-commie-spaker
oh ya, I forgot that affermative action helps all thouse heterosexual males get all thouse jobs that they work so hard for
poor baby...call the waaaaahmbulance
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MAMASAYMAMASAMAMACOOSA |
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pinko-commie-spaker
- FB Fan -
13 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2003 : 09:53:59
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| ya, I'm the one who is being a child...ok |
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STITCHES
= Cult of Ray =
USA
915 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2003 : 09:58:46
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no, you're the one with slightly skewed logic
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MAMASAYMAMASAMAMACOOSA |
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pinko-commie-spaker
- FB Fan -
13 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2003 : 10:01:32
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| ya I forgot it's good to give people jobs based on their gender, race, and sexuality, not on credentials. |
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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2003 : 10:04:36
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| trying...not to respond...musn't... get sucked in |
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jimmy
= Cult of Ray =
USA
876 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2003 : 10:07:00
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| Going to work now. it's been fun have a good day |
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2003 : 10:51:44
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Um..guys..play nice.
I kind of agree with Jimmy - Walmart should be able to put up wherever they want.
I don't think Walmart is really fully to blame here. The only reason they're there is because people buy from them. Sure, they exploit people. (Their staff, overseas workers, and the people who buy there.)
But really - a Walmart opens in Smalltown USA. It's not like the places they were shopping at suddenly have 'more expensive' items. Their stuff is the same price. So technically, people wouldn't be spending 'more'. But of course, they're drawn in by Walmart with the promise to spend less. (Thus, exploiting people who have a restrictive income.)
Of course, if there were a system in place to prevent people from living so restrictively (ie, single parents) by guarenteeing a minimum income, perhaps Walmarts wouldn't do so well.
It's like anywhere else..treat the 'people' like they're shit, and they're gonna react that way. |
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BLT
> Teenager of the Year <
South Sandwich Islands
4204 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2003 : 11:43:06
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Here is an LA Times article from a few weeks ago. It's rather long, but it shows how Wal-Mart's demand for lower prices actually drives work overseas in some cases. I moved it to my own site to make it easier to find:
http://webpages.charter.net/shlomo/walmart.htm
Personally, it makes me very sad to see 'mom & pop' shops driven out of business by mega-sellers. We may save a few bucks now, but in the long run we all suffer. Anyone who's had their local hardware store driven out of business by a Home Depot should know what I mean. Home Depot is a DIYer's nightmare. Very few employees to help you, and the ones that are there are barely qualified. I used to be able to go to Baker's Hardware (Glendale California) and ask them for advice on plumbing or whatever job I was working on. Plus they had every type of fastener imaginable and you could buy exactly as many as you needed. At Home Depot, you're lucky to find the right one and you have to buy a box of 100. And the people at Home Depot know less than me in most cases. But hey, they came to town and it only took about 10 years to drive Baker's out of business. RIP.
 "Join the Cult of Dustin / And vanish without a trace" |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2003 : 12:10:40
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You make a very good point BLT, and not only that, not everybody's experience with a Mom and Pop store is like jimmy or pinko's anecdotes. Many times they are actually cheaper, and especially with hardware stores, have more of a selection. Places like Wal-Mart and Home Depot, et al, narrow down selection to the broadest appeal, leaving people who want more selection to have to go to the boutique-priced stores and catalogs. The entire middle-section of the retail market gets eviscerated.
Swedish Chef's "Dumpling of Wisdom": Øder tis moodle in der noggin tu smacken der ouchey und vinger-slingers ur to smacken-backen und fix de morkin, yøobetcha! |
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SpudBoy
= Cult of Ray =
Equatorial Guinea
649 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2003 : 14:21:26
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OK. Fuck it - I'm jumping in.
First, the thing I hear the two new muckrakers saying is "Go Walton or Go Commie/Socialist", which is bullshit. You want us to take sides, but the sides are unclear, crappy choices.
Here is my beef with Wal-Mart: Child labor, overseas sweatshops, RFID and illegal immigrants. The working conditions under which most of the products Wally World carries are made are only possible in third world communist and socialist dictatorships. You don't like that philosophy? Shop with Mom n Pop.
I think the corporation has every right to stand up a store wherever they can afford the land, but I also think that they should be *heavily* fined for operating in a manner out of line with basic human rights tenets; at least in the US, and anywhere else this kind of thing is important to the citizenry. (This implies required legislation which will never pass in the US since it's "bad for business" for the corporations that own our so called representative government, even if it sounds like paranoid rantings. Do the research.). Don't like giving up your hard earned money to taxes? The illegal immigrant factor is already baked into the calculations for your witholding to support their needs, too.
Do I shop there? Occasionally - I try to keep it to a minimum. But then I live in a place with nothing BUT goddamn chain stores. Grow up (am I wrong to think they sound 12?). Spend some time in another country. Learn the value of real culture and you'll gag every time you get spoon-fed by one of the vanilla monoliths.
RFID - holy crap. an ID tag the size of a grain of sand that is in everything. It's not just Wallyworld here, but they are the big banker of it. Don't believe me? buy a pocket sized notebook and carry it through other store's door scanners. You'll set one off sooner than later.
It's somewhere in the manufacture - not a little sticker or tag you can just tear off. Makes me want to microwave everything I own.
And oh yeah - for the record, I'm a capitalist. But when I helm my own company, I will do it ethically, as I have run my areas inside some of the less offensive financial institutions. The more I learn about Wal Mart the less I shop there.
Punk Rock isn't about fashion.
P.S. I know these kids are just in it for the noise, but what the hell - it's a good topic. :)
 I looked for a cult to join, then decided to just play "Sink". Hey! I sank the LaBrea Tar Pits! |
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El Barto
= Song DB Master =
USA
4020 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2003 : 15:08:55
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It's fine to have a discussion, or perhaps even a nicely worded argument, but please knock off the name calling guys, alright? Thanks.
 "I joined the Cult of Clops / If I were you, I'd sleep with one eye open." |
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pinko-commie-spaker
- FB Fan -
13 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2003 : 20:19:38
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[quote]Originally posted by STITCHES
one day spaker was grocery shopping. He pushed his cart up to the checkout counter where there was an attractive young female cashier. He unloaded a 3liter bottle of generic soda, 4 microwave dinners, and cheap bread. As the cashier rang him up she said, "you must be single."
"How could you tell," he said.
"Cause you're fucking ugly"
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listen, i'm his girlfriend, and for your information i'm damn good looking too. i won't go into details, but let's just say between my beauty and my brains, 'spaker' as you call him, has caused many hearts to break by dating me. and not that you care, but we plan on getting married quite soon and living in a house that has our name on it. yeah, i'd say he sounds like a real loser.
they always say people put others down because of their own inadequacies and trying to make themselves feel better. you must really like shit with the way you're talking. |
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earth-to-amy
- FB Fan -
4 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2003 : 20:30:57
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i'm spaker's gf, i had'nt realized i wasn't logged off of his name yet. at any rate, i have a few things to say about companies like wal-mart.
1. you cannot deny that they employ alot more people than mom and pop stores. and you could say that maybe a bunch of specialty stores might be able to employ as many people as one walmart, but even if they did, the stores wouldn't be able to provide the benefits, salaries/hourly pay, or opportunities for job advancement and personal growth that wal-mart does. yes, i feel bad that places lose their unique feel, but the truth is that in places where there are no super stores to be found, very little traffic gets pulled off the highways. this lowers the chance for business for other places like restaraunts and gas stations as well. having the draw to your city or town like a home depot or wal-mart has is invaluable, especially during the holidays.
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earth-to-amy
- FB Fan -
4 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2003 : 20:31:41
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| 2. walmart had to start from scratch just like every store does. they didn't just become a giant overnight, it took alot of hardwork by the owners. obviously, they had a good idea, great timing, and an excellent location. the rest is hisory. i work for the yankee candle company's first store in south deerfield. its taken the company 35 years to become worldwide. there are a couple of other candle companies in the area that almost can't compete. why doesn't anyone complain about it then? it isn't simply a local store anymore. its spread from california to england, with a few hundred stores. but no one complains, why not? in fact, yankee candle was given an award by mitt romney for employing so many people and doing a great job in the community. walmart does stuff for their communities too, so yeah, they are making profits, but they do put alot back into the areas they're from. |
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earth-to-amy
- FB Fan -
4 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2003 : 20:36:50
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| 3. everywhere you turn there is a company abusing developing countries' need for casha nd employment by hiring with low wages and long hours with no overtime pay. taco bell is a prime example. but every little bit helps them, and i would like to point out something to ponder. the united nations says that a living wage is no less than $1 per day. walmart pays at least that, maybe a little more. yankee candle pays me what i consider to be a living wage-i make enough money to get by right now, but not a whole hell of alot extra, and i'm paid slightly over minimum wage. what we need to survive in this country, is very different from what someone someplace else needs. so before you start bitching about people getting paid so little, think about it this way-walmart is giving them a job, if it wasnt for walmart, they wouldnt even be getting a living wage and would probably be dead. |
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BLT
> Teenager of the Year <
South Sandwich Islands
4204 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2003 : 21:56:20
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quote:
Originally posted by earth-to-amy
so before you start bitching about people getting paid so little, think about it this way-walmart is giving them a job, if it wasnt for walmart, they wouldnt even be getting a living wage and would probably be dead.
WALMART SAVES LIVES! Praise be to Sam, O Giver of Life!
We owe him, just like the owner of Lakewood Fans owes him a debt of gratitude so big that he had to move part of his factory to Shenzhen, China, to keep his prices within Walmart's demands. Hey, the people of Shenzhen owe him, too (those stingy bastards!).
earth-to-amy, you should read the article I linked to above. But then again, you may not like what it says so maybe you should avoid it.
It's just another way our country is descending into complete mediocrity. But then if you're a person who looks forward to eating dinner at Denny's on Friday night, never mind-- I'm sure the people of Shenzhen eat better than you do.
 "Join the Cult of Steve-o / And enjoy the best brownies"  |
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earth-to-amy
- FB Fan -
4 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2003 : 22:07:08
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earth-to-amy, you should read the article I linked to above. But then again, you may not like what it says so maybe you should avoid it.
It's just another way our country is descending into complete mediocrity. But then if you're a person who looks forward to eating dinner at Denny's on Friday night, never mind-- I'm sure the people of Shenzhen eat better than you do.
unlike most people on this forum, i am open minded. i went to college and majored in environmental policy, i understand our north american trade agreement policies, as well as our policies for overseas. i never said they were perfect, and i have alot of problems with businesses moving away to other countries, taking jobs with them. i dont think this should happen, but it does. for now we will keep losing our jobs, but someone else is gaining them. i'm not saying that walmart is right in doing this, but it is thus so far legal. many businesses have chosen the same route. do you think mom and pop stores buy all their goods american made? probably not. i'm sure they have many products made in other countries. its called competition-whoever sells it for the least gets the business, and if they're trying to compete with wally world, i guess they're gonna hafta buy the cheapest too, even if they cant sell it for as little. and no, i dont look forward to denny's for suppoer. i cook my own healthy meal, thank-you very much. i never said walmart was perfect, but oneof the reasons it exists is because our own country's policies are not perfect. if it isnt walmart, there will be something else to take its place.
"Join the Cult of Steve-o / And enjoy the best brownies"
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2003 : 23:18:47
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> unlike most people on this forum, i am open minded.
HAHAH - you've been here, what, 3hrs, and you already know what 2800+ people on here are like? You are very funny.
No one (but you) has suggested what they're doing is illegal (except for them using agencies that hire illegal help..turning a blind eye.)
You defend Walmart rather strongly with your 1-2-3 punch...
1 - Yes, they employ more people, especially from China.
2 - I agree, they started from scratch. A candle company that is worldwide is nothing compared to what Walmart is doing in the US.
3 - You're a melodramatic one! 'Walmart or death'! Gee..what did those poor humans do before there was Walmart?? There were masses of blue-vested people dead in the gutters...now they have found their holy land.
Yes, there is abuse amongst most companies, i don't see how that gets Walmart off the hook or justifies it in any way?
Anyway - welcome to FB.net, it's need to see another couple. |
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