| Author |
 Topic  |
|
billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6214 Posts |
 Posted - 12/08/2003 : 08:15:36
|
I hate monarchy! It's totally useless and not modern.
But to make a long story short:
We have a new dutch princess, she has no name yet, she will be the Queen of Holland in the far far future (her grandma is still the Queen you see)
 "I joined the Culf of Frank/ And now I do not know what...to do" |
|
|
glacial906
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1738 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2003 : 10:01:15
|
My God what is the point of this? Tradition for traditions sake. What does the Princess actually do? They seem to me just like celebrities for the hell of it.
No offense to any British or any other nationalities that have a King or Queen or Duke or Prince or Earl people on board, but how much power does royalty actually have any more? (I'm not being a smart-ass either, I'm actually asking to learn the answer.)
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe.
Carl Sagan
|
Edited by - glacial906 on 12/08/2003 10:02:03 |
 |
|
|
theonecontender
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
565 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2003 : 11:45:51
|
| Is it always first born, or is it first male? I always thought that royalty was usually a male thing. |
|
|
|
Danishboy
- FB Fan -
Denmark
175 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2003 : 12:06:52
|
I shouldent try to explain this to americans(republicans) or canadians(under british rule). In Denmark we have the worlds oldest monacy.
We danes are very proud of our Queen, which can date her ancestors back to Gorm the old. Thatīs before we even became christians.
You can not have a better represant for your country, but when you look to the English monacy i understand why you wonder, they will fuck anything on legs:)
Man of steel |
|
|
|
Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2003 : 12:20:38
|
| Queen Elizabitch, I've heard some call her. |
|
|
|
SpudBoy
= Cult of Ray =
Equatorial Guinea
649 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2003 : 20:20:23
|
I know if *I* were King, I would appoint the Royal Cat as Minister of Finance, and his name would be "Mister Nipples".
 I looked for a cult to join, then decided to just play "Sink". Hey! I sank the LaBrea Tar Pits! |
|
|
|
mun chien andalusia
= Quote Accumulator =
Italy
2139 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2003 : 04:48:49
|
quote:
Originally posted by Danishboy
I shouldent try to explain this to americans(republicans) or canadians(under british rule). In Denmark we have the worlds oldest monacy.
We danes are very proud of our Queen, which can date her ancestors back to Gorm the old. Thatīs before we even became christians.
You can not have a better represant for your country, but when you look to the English monacy i understand why you wonder, they will fuck anything on legs:)
Man of steel
oh i see.being a good monarch is about descending from a hairy barbar and not fucking anything without court approval  .
countries which still approve monarchy should wake up and enter the 21st century.why pay for a useless bastard to stay on your head?tradition is good but maintaining fossils on power is simply anachronistic.i say burn them.
 join the cult of errol\and you can have a beer\without having to quit smoking
www.superabound.altervista.org |
|
|
|
ivandivel
= Cult of Ray =
394 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2003 : 04:57:51
|
quote:
Originally posted by mun chien andalusia
quote:
Originally posted by Danishboy
I shouldent try to explain this to americans(republicans) or canadians(under british rule). In Denmark we have the worlds oldest monacy.
We danes are very proud of our Queen, which can date her ancestors back to Gorm the old. Thatīs before we even became christians.
You can not have a better represant for your country, but when you look to the English monacy i understand why you wonder, they will fuck anything on legs:)
Man of steel
oh i see.being a good monarch is about descending from a hairy barbar and not fucking anything without court approval .
countries which still approve monarchy should wake up and enter the 21st century.why pay for a useless bastard to stay on your head?tradition is good but maintaining fossils on power is simply anachronistic.i say burn them.
join the cult of errol\and you can have a beer\without having to quit smoking
www.superabound.altervista.org
now, what is worst? a person that is born, raised and paid to represent the country AND has no power, or a berlusconi who was elected? Which one the countries' populations would one think had brains? One advantage with monarchy (i am not defending it) is that "charisma" becomes less important in the political elections. It is quite obvious that italia, france and the USA desperately need monarchy. |
|
|
|
mun chien andalusia
= Quote Accumulator =
Italy
2139 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2003 : 05:24:04
|
quote:
Originally posted by ivandivel
quote:
Originally posted by mun chien andalusia
quote:
Originally posted by Danishboy
I shouldent try to explain this to americans(republicans) or canadians(under british rule). In Denmark we have the worlds oldest monacy.
We danes are very proud of our Queen, which can date her ancestors back to Gorm the old. Thatīs before we even became christians.
You can not have a better represant for your country, but when you look to the English monacy i understand why you wonder, they will fuck anything on legs:)
Man of steel
oh i see.being a good monarch is about descending from a hairy barbar and not fucking anything without court approval .
countries which still approve monarchy should wake up and enter the 21st century.why pay for a useless bastard to stay on your head?tradition is good but maintaining fossils on power is simply anachronistic.i say burn them.
join the cult of errol\and you can have a beer\without having to quit smoking
www.superabound.altervista.org
now, what is worst? a person that is born, raised and paid to represent the country AND has no power, or a berlusconi who was elected? Which one the countries' populations would one think had brains? One advantage with monarchy (i am not defending it) is that "charisma" becomes less important in the political elections. It is quite obvious that italia, france and the USA desperately need monarchy.
hmmm.an argument as old as democracy.better an enlightened oligarchy\monarchy or an elected and many times ignorant representation?i'd go for elected goverments all the way.berlusconi\bush or whatever stupid ass has been ever on power on whatever free country cannot be an excuse to override the people's will(good or bad).plus you can always choose not to reelect them but you are stuck with a dynasty for generations.
being one of the richest persons of the planet for doing nothing isn't my kind of social justice either.that old woman that calls herself owner of the united kingdom has done nothing in her life to earn those billions of dollars.
one last thing.i would never talk about a clever population.single individuals are clever,masses are not.when in a crowd a totally normal or even brilliant individual can react as a total ass.democracy is about correcting your errors(difficult but possible) monarchy is about being always right (impossible)
i don't remember who said that but it's a good description of democracy:
"democracy is a bad political system,yet the best we have"
join the cult of errol\and you can have a beer\without having to quit smoking
www.superabound.altervista.org |
|
|
|
Danishboy
- FB Fan -
Denmark
175 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2003 : 07:06:37
|
mun chien andalusia- Well our Queen dosent just sit in her palace all day doing nothing.
She is like a protector of Danish cultur and historie. She also a archaeologist, painter besides being a Queen.
She painted picures for lord of the ring, and it is said that tolkien liked them very much.
I dont think that being Queen is a very free job, she is at work twentyfourseven.
When her farther died she had to get up to a balcony and say "the king is dead, long live the queen" I dont know about you, but i dont think that i could have done that.
So she as my greatest respect and admiration.
Man of steel |
|
|
|
billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6214 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2003 : 07:53:51
|
She's called Catherina-Amalia Beatrix Carmen Victoria
I guess there's something in it for everybody!!
I'm against monarchy, but I have to say ivandivel said it fine, berlusconni, juck!!!! Our Prime Minister has no charm at all, besides the fact that he's a morron and a jackass, you would think that's a good thing.
"I joined the Culf of Frank/ And now I do not know what...to do" |
|
|
|
mun chien andalusia
= Quote Accumulator =
Italy
2139 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2003 : 08:09:15
|
quote:
Originally posted by Danishboy
mun chien andalusia- Well our Queen dosent just sit in her palace all day doing nothing.
She is like a protector of Danish cultur and historie. She also a archaeologist, painter besides being a Queen.
She painted picures for lord of the ring, and it is said that tolkien liked them very much.
I dont think that being Queen is a very free job, she is at work twentyfourseven.
When her farther died she had to get up to a balcony and say "the king is dead, long live the queen" I dont know about you, but i dont think that i could have done that.
So she as my greatest respect and admiration.
Man of steel
i don't want to offend your culture or anything but to me it's not that a great deal to say the king is dead.thousands of fathers die each day and nobody cares except for their relatives.though i'm sorry for anybody's death and i respect the pain for the loss i don't feel that a king's death or a princess'pain are any different than any other human being's,they are not more important or more nobble.to be exact i didn't give a dime about lady d and her lovers and her loneliness.who cares?thousand of people have more serious problems and i should care about a rich queen?i wasn't happy for her death but i didn't spend a second thought over her.
as for your second argument if i was filthy rich and nobble and didn't have anything better to do i would probably be a film director or a sportsman or something and everyone would admire me just because i would be the count of something,and not for my talent.the rich always have hobbies so nothing new there.the king of greece was an olympic champion back in the 60's only because they invented a sport to put in the olympic games just for him and because there was no competition.
you say the queen is the protector of your cultures and traditions.i think that the culture an tradition belong to the people and not at a person who decides for them just on the basis of who his parents were(if you think about it you can't Become a king you can only be Born to be a king and were is the illuminated monarchy if the only merit of a king is to be born?)
the world should be eternally gratefull to the french and their revolution because they had the courage go against their traditions and cut the heads of the nobble and the churchmen who not only got rich in the backs of millions but worse of all they had convinced those millions that it was right to do so because it was god's will and because they were part of a superior breed.
i live in a free country were the railway,the army,the police,the post office belong to all those who work and pay taxes and not at one person who inherited everything from his father.i know it's a formality and modern monarchy is just a symbol but i like the fact that on my passport is written Greek Democracy Citizen and not something like Greek Kingdom Suddit.
sorry in advance if you find all this offending.it's absolutely not my purpose to offend your beliefs but there are some things that i cannot stand.
join the cult of errol\and you can have a beer\without having to quit smoking
www.superabound.altervista.org |
|
|
|
billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6214 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2003 : 08:22:18
|
but still,
Berlusconni, yuck! bleh! eeewwwl!
"I joined the Culf of Frank/ And now I do not know what...to do" |
|
|
|
cvanepps
= Cult of Ray =
USA
442 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2003 : 10:55:12
|
We have Princess Leia, who fought bravely against the evil Empire. I think she might have painted also. 
Monarchies are sort of in the same boat as organized religion. They're not relevant today.
-= It's not easy to kidnap a fat man =-
http://christophervanepps.iuma.com |
|
|
|
darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2003 : 11:14:46
|
| In the US we don't need a monarchy; we have Paris Hilton and Michael Jackson. |
|
|
|
Coldheartofstone
* Dog in the Sand *
Canada
2025 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2003 : 11:50:25
|
HAHAhahahaha....well put my friend
This box is too big to get out of... |
|
|
|
apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2003 : 13:53:28
|
hahahah! But darwin, don't forget, we even have heirs to that throne.....Prince Michael Jackson and Prince Michael Jackson II. Two of 'em! I don't know what kind of royalty his daughter, Paris Michael Jackson, is.
 Join the Cult of Carl / Lisening him do bass for our power ballad 'Hypocrite of the Heart' is like lisening to angels play bass. |
|
|
|
Danishboy
- FB Fan -
Denmark
175 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2003 : 15:03:41
|
mun chein andalusia- I could tell you many stories about our former king and queens, but let me just tell you one.
Under the 2nd world war in Denmark, the King back then rode on his horse through København every day, it dident really mean anything but the peoples spritits rose. I try to make you fell, that not everything is about money or destiny, rich or poor.
The French??? only barbarians and russians kills their king and queens, did it get any better?
After the great Napoleon lost Europa, Denmark lost skåne, hallan, blekin, slesvi, norway our King surported that big idiot + Lord Nelson burnt down København and stole the Danish fleet.
The French well i cant say much about them, but thank them?????Iīm sure they can thank themselfs better.
And to all you Americans, if it wasent because of kings and queens you all would still be living in europa or whereever you came from, and the natives would still be alive.
Man of steel |
Edited by - Danishboy on 12/09/2003 15:08:12 |
|
|
|
glacial906
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1738 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2003 : 15:12:19
|
You are pretty ignorant if you think that the nations that formed the modern day countries of Europe didn't pillage and take that land at one time or another. Please save your haughtiness until you can claim that no one that you are descended from ever did anything wrong. Okay?
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe.
Carl Sagan
|
|
|
|
Danishboy
- FB Fan -
Denmark
175 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2003 : 15:30:13
|
Sure the North took part in the rapin and killing off other people. We used to sail to Britan and killed everything we saw.
In the bloodbath in Stockholm we kill half the city, but that was the ways back then, kill or be killed.
Still it was in the old days before Christ.
Man of steel |
|
|
|
glacial906
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1738 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2003 : 18:01:42
|
Unfortunately I'd say it's still "kill or be killed" to this day. Except, that we don't say that out loud. Like, if the U.S. decides to take over a country, as seems to be happening with Iraq, we say we're "liberating" it. Much more P.C. that way.
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe.
Carl Sagan
|
|
|
|
Danishboy
- FB Fan -
Denmark
175 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2003 : 18:29:17
|
My country surports your country, maybe their wrong maybe not.
It is said that if Denmark are invaded, the old king Holger Danske will rise up and slay the foe.
So why worrie?
Man of steel |
Edited by - Danishboy on 12/09/2003 18:29:56 |
|
|
|
mun chien andalusia
= Quote Accumulator =
Italy
2139 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2003 : 18:54:50
|
quote:
Originally posted by Danishboy
mun chein andalusia- I could tell you many stories about our former king and queens, but let me just tell you one.
Under the 2nd world war in Denmark, the King back then rode on his horse through København every day, it dident really mean anything but the peoples spritits rose. I try to make you fell, that not everything is about money or destiny, rich or poor.
The French??? only barbarians and russians kills their king and queens, did it get any better?
After the great Napoleon lost Europa, Denmark lost skåne, hallan, blekin, slesvi, norway our King surported that big idiot + Lord Nelson burnt down København and stole the Danish fleet.
The French well i cant say much about them, but thank them?????Iīm sure they can thank themselfs better.
And to all you Americans, if it wasent because of kings and queens you all would still be living in europa or whereever you came from, and the natives would still be alive.
Man of steel
sorry but i don't think that napoleon was that great and i don't care much about fleets or pathetic modern kings who go out to hail the crowds every once in a while just to hide when real danger comes.for any "good" king you mention i can mention hundrends that they were just fat men on extremely expensive chairs. kings are good for films and books and tales but in real life they are just useless leaches.be thankfull to the french instead 'cause without them you would probably be working in some viking king's brewery.
and then how would exactly be that kings helped forming america?by seeking more and more wealth since europe had nothing more to offer?by making millions of europeans escape from their homelands instead of supporting them?and if i'm not wrong the first native american slaughters were ordered by the so-catholic and so-illuminated spanish kings.
ps:the french did hang their kings and they are doing a whole lot better than denmark i think.at least they got into the euro zone.russia is a completely different case due to the soviet passage but they sure aren't doing any worse than they were under the czars.didn't they become communists due to the czars' oppression?
ps2:i don't see why you are so agressive with americans.american history is not innocent and the modern danish history wouldn't be innocent either if denmark was of any importance in the world map(though an icelandic friend told me how denmark treated their independence issues).you seem to forget that without the U.S ww2 would have ended with denmark being the lego factory of the reich(maybe uncle hitler would even let you keep your king).and maybe this is what you wished for in the first place.
join the cult of errol\and you can have a beer\without having to quit smoking
www.superabound.altervista.org |
|
|
|
ivandivel
= Cult of Ray =
394 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2003 : 00:08:29
|
[/quote]
hmmm.an argument as old as democracy.better an enlightened oligarchy\monarchy or an elected and many times ignorant representation?i'd go for elected goverments all the way.berlusconi\bush or whatever stupid ass has been ever on power on whatever free country cannot be an excuse to override the people's will(good or bad).plus you can always choose not to reelect them but you are stuck with a dynasty for generations.
being one of the richest persons of the planet for doing nothing isn't my kind of social justice either.that old woman that calls herself owner of the united kingdom has done nothing in her life to earn those billions of dollars.
one last thing.i would never talk about a clever population.single individuals are clever,masses are not.when in a crowd a totally normal or even brilliant individual can react as a total ass.democracy is about correcting your errors(difficult but possible) monarchy is about being always right (impossible)
i don't remember who said that but it's a good description of democracy:
"democracy is a bad political system,yet the best we have"
join the cult of errol\and you can have a beer\without having to quit smoking
www.superabound.altervista.org
[/quote]
i didn't suggest that you'd have to choose between monarchy and democracy, as you seem to believe. All political powers in europes' monarchy's (except the mini-states like Monaco, Lichtenstein - if these countries count) is elected - and they have ALL political power - which it is hard to believe that you didn't learn in school. The monarchs are symbols, like Berlusconi is a symbol (and of what?). Any nation chooses which person they would like to have as a symbol.Wasn't it machiavelli (did i spell it correctly) that pointed that out - the pact between the leader and the people? What I was trying to communicate was that the el presidentes of the world seem to be elected more because of their symbolic value than their political message. They get elected because they have plenty symbolic value, yet have enormous political power. Now, is that a good arrangement (and please remember - it is possible to have different democratic arrangements)?
If you are a brilliant person, and react like an ass in a mass - maybe one was not such a clever person after all. Being in a mass is never an excuse. Being in a mass is in fact one of the cornerstones of human existence. |
|
|
|
Danishboy
- FB Fan -
Denmark
175 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2003 : 04:15:04
|
mum chein andalusia-Well Island got their independence, today Greenland and Færøerne has their own flag and national anthem, and they get moneysurport(pretty much).
But they dont want to lose the Queen, so itīs ina stalemate.
When for eksample a Danish factory wants to sell it products, maybe lets say Japan. The Danish goverment send the Crownprince to promote Danish design, or something else.
It has proven succesfull every time, the others people country are hornored by the visite, and maybe pay a little more attention to the Prince, than to another smart guy ina suit.
Itīs a way to bran your productes.
I can sense that you think, that they sit on their fat asses and do nothing all day.
It is not more far from the truth.
About the second world war, do you really think that Hitler would be satified with Europa? If he could have won over Russia, why stop there.
The US help, when they themselfs felt threatened, so dont make your country look like theyīr some Saints.
Thats just so typical, for a american.
Man of steel |
Edited by - Danishboy on 12/10/2003 04:18:29 |
|
|
|
glacial906
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1738 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2003 : 09:31:50
|
Tell me this, Danishboy: would your country, or any other in the world, do anything politically to help out just for the sake of good will? Usually what happens is that the "good will" demonstrated by any larger power who is helping out a smaller one lies in their best interests, and the good will comes secondary and only if it's convenient. Why do you think that the rebels in Serbia were being assisted by the Russians before WWI? Was it just because the Russians felt sorry for them? No, it was for political gain and hurting the Austrians. How about the British in the eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries forbidding any other nations from colonizing the U.S.? Was it just to protect the fledgling nation and let it grow? No, the British didn't want any more countries competing with it's trade market in America. You sit atop your high horse and criticize everyone else. Well, seems to me you're being pretty judgemental for being on a FB message board. You are really generalizing everyone (the U.S. in particular) except yourself. I am not an overly patriotic person but despite the flaws of the U.S., I am glad to have been born here. The U.S. has done no better or no worse than any other country in it's history. Human nature, not some innate tendency of countries, determines what course of action nations take -- and you and I share the same basic human nature as human beings, even though we are miles apart physically and a galaxy away politically. People will criticize the U.S. until it ceases to be the major world power, as they would any other country that was in it's position today. And how would you feel if someone like, oh I don't know, the Soviet Union (before it's breakup) was in the position of the U.S. today? You probably would've been gobbled up as some sort of "buffer state" against the capitalist west, and any attempt you made to exhibit any sort of personal incentive or voice would be brutally crushed. I don't think that mun chien andalusia, or myself for that matter, are trying to put the U.S. in the context of sainthood. But at the same time I do see a deliberate, definite attempt by yourself to villify the United States in particular, and I have no idea why.
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe.
Carl Sagan
|
Edited by - glacial906 on 12/10/2003 09:38:08 |
|
|
|
Danishboy
- FB Fan -
Denmark
175 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2003 : 11:50:11
|
glacial906-I thought we were talking about monacy!
Not about foreign policy, or who did what and why.
Man of steel |
|
|
|
mun chien andalusia
= Quote Accumulator =
Italy
2139 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2003 : 16:12:04
|
quote:
Originally posted by ivandivel
All political powers in europes' monarchy's (except the mini-states like Monaco, Lichtenstein - if these countries count) is elected - and they have ALL political power - which it is hard to believe that you didn't learn in school. The monarchs are symbols, like Berlusconi is a symbol (and of what?). Any nation chooses which person they would like to have as a symbol.Wasn't it machiavelli (did i spell it correctly) that pointed that out - the pact between the leader and the people? What I was trying to communicate was that the el presidentes of the world seem to be elected more because of their symbolic value than their political message. They get elected because they have plenty symbolic value, yet have enormous political power. Now, is that a good arrangement (and please remember - it is possible to have different democratic arrangements)?
If you are a brilliant person, and react like an ass in a mass - maybe one was not such a clever person after all. Being in a mass is never an excuse. Being in a mass is in fact one of the cornerstones of human existence.
[/quote]
ok i didn't want to reply to this topic but since i'm in i can't help it.
1st)
berlusconi is an ass and there is no doubt about it.two facts:
a)he is elected but not as a symbol but as a possible solution to the country's problems(let aside the fact that his promises were fake).you may like it or not but people chose him,nobody chose queen elisa though.she stands where she stands just because her father was who he was.nobody would ever consider berlusconi's son as the inheritor of italy's traditions.
b)nevertheless while on power he must be respected (certainly not like a monarch) as every democratical leader while on charge.a nation's leader is decided by the people of that nation and by nobody else.how would you consider g.w bush being offended by the queen just because he considers him a prick?a detail:even if berlusconi is the country's elected leader he is persecuted in the terms of law for his actions(i don't recall of a king being charged for anything).civilized nations choose their leaders for a limited period,if they don't like them they just dump them and forget that they elected them in the first place.
2nd)normal persons can act like mongoloids when in a crowd.never been to a football(soccer for americans) game?i'm the most pacific person in the world but i found myself hating the referee in a game (it was olympiacos-real madrid 3-3 for the record a pretty stolen match due to real's political power.including roberto carlos saving a goal with an arm etc...).another example?anti g8 demonstrations where everything is pacific and then somebody throws the first stone,the police replies and it ends everybody against everybody.it's not a case that exists a psychology of the masses.a single individual acts in a completely different manner when alone and when in a crowd.
join the cult of errol\and you can have a beer\without having to quit smoking
www.superabound.altervista.org |
|
|
|
glacial906
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1738 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2003 : 19:43:36
|
quote:
Originally posted by Danishboy
glacial906-I thought we were talking about monacy!
Not about foreign policy, or who did what and why.
Man of steel
That was in response to your saying how Americans had only gotten involved in WWII because we felt threatened, how we shouldn't feel like saints, which I'm pretty sure no reasoning American citizen does.
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe.
Carl Sagan
|
|
|
|
ivandivel
= Cult of Ray =
394 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2003 : 23:59:46
|
quote:
Originally posted by mun chien andalusia
quote:
Originally posted by ivandivel
All political powers in europes' monarchy's (except the mini-states like Monaco, Lichtenstein - if these countries count) is elected - and they have ALL political power - which it is hard to believe that you didn't learn in school. The monarchs are symbols, like Berlusconi is a symbol (and of what?). Any nation chooses which person they would like to have as a symbol.Wasn't it machiavelli (did i spell it correctly) that pointed that out - the pact between the leader and the people? What I was trying to communicate was that the el presidentes of the world seem to be elected more because of their symbolic value than their political message. They get elected because they have plenty symbolic value, yet have enormous political power. Now, is that a good arrangement (and please remember - it is possible to have different democratic arrangements)?
If you are a brilliant person, and react like an ass in a mass - maybe one was not such a clever person after all. Being in a mass is never an excuse. Being in a mass is in fact one of the cornerstones of human existence.
ok i didn't want to reply to this topic but since i'm in i can't help it.
1st)
berlusconi is an ass and there is no doubt about it.two facts:
a)he is elected but not as a symbol but as a possible solution to the country's problems(let aside the fact that his promises were fake).you may like it or not but people chose him,nobody chose queen elisa though.she stands where she stands just because her father was who he was.nobody would ever consider berlusconi's son as the inheritor of italy's traditions.
b)nevertheless while on power he must be respected (certainly not like a monarch) as every democratical leader while on charge.a nation's leader is decided by the people of that nation and by nobody else.how would you consider g.w bush being offended by the queen just because he considers him a prick?a detail:even if berlusconi is the country's elected leader he is persecuted in the terms of law for his actions(i don't recall of a king being charged for anything).civilized nations choose their leaders for a limited period,if they don't like them they just dump them and forget that they elected them in the first place.
2nd)normal persons can act like mongoloids when in a crowd.never been to a football(soccer for americans) game?i'm the most pacific person in the world but i found myself hating the referee in a game (it was olympiacos-real madrid 3-3 for the record a pretty stolen match due to real's political power.including roberto carlos saving a goal with an arm etc...).another example?anti g8 demonstrations where everything is pacific and then somebody throws the first stone,the police replies and it ends everybody against everybody.it's not a case that exists a psychology of the masses.a single individual acts in a completely different manner when alone and when in a crowd.
join the cult of errol\and you can have a beer\without having to quit smoking
www.superabound.altervista.org
[/quote]
what can i say? I strongly disagree. From the nurenberg trials most courts have rejected the mass is an excuse argument. Yep - there is a psychology of the individual, and the masses. It wasn't the point. The point was that it is not an excuse. Second - there are symbolic aspects that play roles in ANY election.I'll let it rest though. |
|
|
|
billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6214 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2003 : 02:18:35
|
quote:
Originally posted by mun chien andalusia
You seem to forget that without the U.S ww2 would have ended with denmark being the lego factory of the reich(maybe uncle hitler would even let you keep your king).and maybe this is what you wished for in the first place.
join the cult of errol\and you can have a beer\without having to quit smoking
www.superabound.altervista.org
Glacial:'We saved your asses in world war two!'
Danishboy:"Well, We saved your asses in world war three"
Glacial:'True!'
haha
Besides:
The Americans did get involved because they were threatened.
Don't get me wrong, I will be thankfull for what they did
forever!But I'm equally thankfull for all the Canadian and Russian people (who had way more losses than USA or Canada, but never really get credit for that)
I learned that the American President said that they wouldn't
fight for Europe again after World Ware One, the american people didn't want that. When Pearl Harbor happened, they simple had to, they were under attack. It's a fact, you can't deny that. Same for WW1, German submarines were shooting down US ships in the Atlantic Ocean. Without the Americans in WW1 and WW2,
Europe would have been destroyed and the USA wouldn't be so rich, but that's a whole other story.
"I joined the Culf of Frank/ And now I do not know what...to do" |
|
|
|
Danishboy
- FB Fan -
Denmark
175 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2003 : 17:07:29
|
quote:
Originally posted by glacial906
quote:
Originally posted by Danishboy
glacial906-I thought we were talking about monacy!
Not about foreign policy, or who did what and why.
Man of steel
That was in response to your saying how Americans had only gotten involved in WWII because we felt threatened, how we shouldn't feel like saints, which I'm pretty sure no reasoning American citizen does.
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe.
Carl Sagan
I have one opion, you another.
Back to the big question, who could be king of your country?
If you could chose from past to present, The Kennedys?
Man of steel |
|
|
|
mun chien andalusia
= Quote Accumulator =
Italy
2139 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2003 : 21:32:09
|
quote:
Originally posted by Danishboy
quote:
Originally posted by glacial906
[quote]Originally posted by Danishboy
[
Man of steel
Back to the big question, who could be king of your country?
If you could chose from past to present, The Kennedys?
Man of steel
that's the nice thing of democracy.NOBODY is good enough to be a king (that is someone who owns a country,it's citizens and it's resources).fuck kings.and to answer your question it's pretty easy to be a king as long as your father is one.i could be the king of denmark or whatever if my father was a king.and i bet your ass that i would be better at the job too.at least i have taste in women (cammila parker bowls?give me a break)and i don't give a fuck about their origins.
join the cult of errol\and you can have a beer\without having to quit smoking
www.superabound.altervista.org |
|
|
|
glacial906
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1738 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2003 : 22:24:49
|
quote:
Originally posted by Danishboy
quote:
Originally posted by glacial906
quote:
Originally posted by Danishboy
glacial906-I thought we were talking about monacy!
Not about foreign policy, or who did what and why.
Man of steel
That was in response to your saying how Americans had only gotten involved in WWII because we felt threatened, how we shouldn't feel like saints, which I'm pretty sure no reasoning American citizen does.
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe.
Carl Sagan
I have one opion, you another.
Back to the big question, who could be king of your country?
If you could chose from past to present, The Kennedys?
Man of steel
Well, I can't really give a definite answer with you skipping around on topics like that. I don't really know what you are talking about. When I responded to your last post about how you thought we had been talking about monarchy, I said it in response to YOU bringing up how the U.S. had only gotten involved in WWII because it threatened us. (I admitted that was true.) Now, you didn't give a response to that either, you just said we had different opinions. Well tell me what is your opinion on that matter, if you have one? I don't think there's any denying that countries do things that serve their own best interests, Denmark or the U.S. or anywhere else; how could someone dispute that? What country does anything for some innate morality? As sad as it seems I think a country would get gobbled up in an instant if it were to take the high road and put it's neck on the line just because it were the right thing to do. It's known as realpolitik. (Real politics. You do whatever is necessary for the good of your people, whether that includes lying to other countries, taking territory, or giving in to people's demand, you put aside all human tendencies of revenge or good will to do what is best for your country. Period.)
Then you jumped into asking me about who would make a good king for the U.S. I don't believe there is any such person, it's like asking what kind of jelly would go good on a filet mignon.
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe.
Carl Sagan
|
|
|
|
Danishboy
- FB Fan -
Denmark
175 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2003 : 02:14:41
|
glacial906-Well i just thought we should stay to the topic.
You used some very fine words, about real-politics and all. Maybe if i had the time, you could explain to me, but it really dosent interest me that much.
In europa we have a very old history, and the Us has none, well nothing worth talking about.
To know the future you must know your past.
I think that the problem with the world today is not the succes of the Us, but every one of us who lived in the cold-ages remembered the collapsed of the Sovietunionen, and the feeling of winning a great victory!!But did we win anything? Did it get any better? Have the everyday worker more money than before, or are the rich just getting richer?
But back to the bufferzone-talk, do you really think that the sovietunionen could have overthrown the "worlds oldest democracy"
I think not, but maybe iīm wrong.
Thatīs right we had a democracy, when you killed of eachother in the civil-war.
Man of steel |
Edited by - Danishboy on 12/12/2003 02:22:43 |
|
|
|
cvanepps
= Cult of Ray =
USA
442 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2003 : 05:49:04
|
Wow, Danishboy, you really are jumping all around...like House of Pain. And by the way, Glacial...the best jelly for filet mignon would have to be peach.
-= It's not easy to kidnap a fat man =-
http://christophervanepps.iuma.com |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
Topic Locked
