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El Barto
= Song DB Master =
USA
4020 Posts |
 Posted - 09/02/2003 : 20:02:21
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Where to start, shit...this is going to be a looooong post, so I commend anyone who's willing to stick with it. Also, it may seem very disjointed...I'm trying to get as much info out on the table.
So I met my girlfriend Megan a few years ago, back in 2000 when I met the Bennies. She was engaged at the time (she is now 25, I'm 20) and I didn't think much of it...that weekend was totally crazy anyway and I didn't talk to them anyway. A few months later I'm visiting the Bennies in PA and I meet Megan again; she's now Brett's (the drummer) girlfriend. The more I hang out there, the more I take a liking to her. Every time I go there I start feeling stronger for her.
FLASHBACK: This isn't the first time I've fallen for a friend's girlfriend. It's happened several times in the past. Why do I allow myself to do this, and how? I don't know, I'm shy...and it's easier for me to be myself around a friend or something. I'm not really risking anything, you know? Risking losing a chance with the girl. I tended to flirt with their girlfriends, which is a bad thing. I was never successful until this point. The more we'd hang out, the more I'd talk to her and impress her, so to speak. She was never serious with Brett anyway...it was just a "for the time being" sort of thing. I had only one real girlfriend prior to this, me being 15 and her 18. No sex, just fooling around. I was always just too shy to talk to girls.
June 2001: It's time for me to move from home. I'm 18 years old and just out of high school. It's a very hard time, I'm very depressed, crying a lot, etc....I'm leaving my home for god's sake, and I'm a home body. It was VERY difficult. Not to be cheesy, and to be completely honest, one thing was keeping me in check: I kept thinking that I'd get to see Megan more often. This kept me happy. I finally moved to PA and everything was going well.
July 2001: This is when things begin to climax, by the end of the month the shit will have hit the fan and the water will have boiled over. Without getting into too many details, Brett left town for a week. I decided this was my only chance. I remember the day as vividly as any other day in my life...I remember it from the moment I was woken up by Jeremy's phone call, asking me to come to the beach with him and Megan (I was apprehensive, but he said I'd see Megan in a bathing suit. I was showered and dressed promptly) until the extreme nervousness of sleeping next to her. I remember what was said, I remember what I did (there was no sex...nothing very sexual...)...It's all still clear. That weekend I ended up going back to MI and visiting...a lot of shit turned up that weekend while I was gone. We talked on the phone for several hours, learning more about eachother and the like. Needless to say, everyone knew by the time I got back what had happened. There was no fighting, I was kicked out of the band but brought back in...we 'toured' that August, and Brett moved to CO in September.
BACKGROUND: At this point, I am still an 18 year old male. I've never had sex. I've always wanted sex. I've never been in a very serious relationship...this would be my first. Megan was different. From talking to her on the phone, I trusted her. This is abnormal for me. I don't trust people off the bat. I'm very untrusting, sort of paranoid in a way, but I really and truely trusted Megan and everything she said. We talked about our interests and stuff and what we had in common, you know, shit like that. I was blown away by this girl. She was exactly what I was searching for. Now, I mentioned I've always wanted sex. I always wished I could have had sex with a lot of girls, a lot of different girls. I just came to accept the fact that while that is what my body desires, it's not who I am...I'm not a guy who can just go fucking around. I wanted to be in a serious, stable relationship, and that's what I saw in Megan. I wanted to find my partner and soulmate, and that's what I found in Megan. Once you reach perfection, or near perfection, what more do you need? Granted, she doesn't like computers that much, and I love them...she likes music, but not in the obsessive, need-to-know-everything way I do. My sense of humor...she likes it a lot of the time, not always. She likes to read books, I don't really like that. She doesn't really have any/many hobbies, per se, and that's where it gets difficult...anyhow.
Here we are, 2 years later. We've had our fair share of fights and arguments, but we are always able to openly talk about things. Where as some people might just shut down and not say anything, we work out the problems. We've come to a point where things are changing...she's now in grad school, and I'm still a 20 year old male, no college to my name. While I may have potential (or maybe I'm just kidding myself), I'm still working low paying jobs. Now comes in the religious issue...I grew up Catholic and resent all of it. I'm now full-fledged atheist, with personal opinions and issues to back myself up...you know, meaning I'm not just an atheist cause it's "cool to hate god" or something. I just despise organized religion...I don't despise the believing in god, but when it gets in the way of being logical and earthly realistic and human, that's when it pisses me off.
Since day one, we've talked about marriage. We moved in together last February officially. Prior to that, she spent all her non-work hours at my place or we spent it at her place. We've been inseperable for the entire 2 years. Lately, she's been worried about the future. I had, maybe foolishly, always stated that the odds of a relationship surviving aren't as high as failure...I mean seriously, statisticly most marriages fail. I've seen my sisters go through so many boyfriends, one of which was together with her boyfriend for 7 years and they broke up. It was just like, unsaid, that they'd get married. Everyone knew it, everyone talked about it, to the point where them marrying became a sort of reality. Throw on top of that my insecure nature, and how can I not say that? It's not to say that I nessarily think we're doomed...I'm just afraid of that.
Anyway, like I said...she's been worried about the future. She doesn't think we can get married because I don't believe in God. She says God has to be the center of the marriage, which I think it's totally fucked up. It's seperating people for an unrealistic reason, which is one of my supporting reasons why I dislike belief in God. The only thing you need is two people to love eachother truely and compromise and work out problems, etc, etc, and be happy. You know, am I way off or am I close? I don't think God is necessary because it's faith...you don't know if God is there or not. What you do know is that you're there with your partner and want nothing more than you and them to be there, together.
So yeah, I'm a little worried. She also thinks I need to experience life (which is not who I am...I'm a homebody...I love my computer) and have sex with other girls (I would like that, of course...what guy wouldn't?) but not at the expense of losing her. She thinks we're at different stages in our life (I've always been able to relate more with older people than people my age, so while I'm a very mature 20 year old, I still retain a bit of my childish ways...the more charming ones...to keep life interesting) What do you guys think? What do you think about God being at the center of marriage? Anyone know any atheists married to religious people? You married people seem to be happy...Sarah, you sound very happy in your marriage. I need some advice, serious advice. Tell me how you feel and don't be afraid to hurt my feelings or tell me how it is. PLEASE!
Addition: I also thought I should add a little bit about our sex life. Obviously in the beginning it was very active, and has diminished slightly, sometimes to the point of nearly never (once a week if lucky). We've had discussions/arguments about it...obviously I want more. She enjoys it while we're having it obviously, but something is causing her not to want to actually get into it...I dunno. She desires it less than I do. Obviously the fact that she's older and been through college, she's experienced. I'm still awesome in bed, but like, yeah...we don't have sex as often. That's the only point that I actually want sex with other girls. |
Edited by - El Barto on 09/02/2003 20:07:07 |
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ProverbialCereal
- FB TabMaster -
USA
2953 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2003 : 20:26:44
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Shouldn't this be in "General Frank Black Chat"? Just kidding.
I read your whole post. Although I don't have anything to say tonight, I will say you were clear in your thoughts and I understood alot of what you said.
I'm not sure I know of any atheist married to someone who believes in God. Alot of Christians (and I'm sure other religions) have God at the center of a marriage because they believe love comes from God, and therefore without God there wouldn't be real love between them. It would mostly be infatuation I guess. This is a deep topic, I dunno even know if I'm making sense. lol.
-Derek |
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This Is It
- FB Fan -
141 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2003 : 20:58:20
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I'll respond for the fact that I too am at a crossroads in my relationship where it seems decisions need to be made.
The problem seems to be in that you are looking at your religious differences in extremes. You're assuming that God is a grandfatherly fellow with a flowing beard sitting up in his throne amongst the clouds pulling levers that control every detail of existence. This is the image passed down for the past few thousand years by the Greeks, then the Hebrews, then the Christians. Many people have rejected this form of thought, but even if you do reject it, you probably believe in something even if that something is nothing. That we have no boundaries and that we're free to believe in what we wish is a philosophy in itself. You may not recognize an existence of an omniscient being separate from yourself, but you can recognize the order that links all existence whether you believe in Christ or Science. You may unknowningly have beliefs that are similar to many Eastern philosphies such as Taoism which simply state that there is a way, or Tao, to everything. God in the east is often used as a metaphor for the interrelationship in what we experience around us. The point being that to have different viewpoints of what God means is natural. Acknowledge that you and your girlfriend simply have two different views of the same thing as opposed to two opposite and separate views. You can search for someone with the exact views as yourself only to find that to have another person in such existence would negate your own reason for existence altogether. It's the differences in viewpoint that make living worthwhile. We can cooperate and share our views and achieve infinite knowledge, or we can fight to the death over who is right. If you show your girlfriend a free and open mind and she still rejects it, then your problems don't lie within the realm of religious views.
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Edited by - This Is It on 09/02/2003 21:00:47 |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2003 : 21:08:18
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After that last thread, I think I'll keep my advice to myself until I know exactly what I'm talking about. I do believe I said somethings of remote value in our last discussion on this topic (not really the God thing, but...). Then again, I do suffer delusions of grandeur. Ala R2-D2.
The God thing is obviously important for her, and for most people in that situation, it's the centre of their life. I'm sure you have yours, everyone does, and it inevitably shifts over time or at least the portioning changes. But if you can't share and enjoy sharing the core of the partner, then there are probably going to be problems. And it does sound like, even from what you've said, you are in different stages of your lives. You probably should experience single life for the sake of figuring out who you are (which sounds cheesy and cliched but I speak from personal experience that this is true). How can you know exactly what you want if you don't know who you are. And you don't. Nobody at 18 who's been dating (and therefore has really grown to be part of someone else instead of their own person) for any extended period of time (say 2 years) really does. You'll think you do. You'll wonder what I'm talking about and think that it's not that way for you, or that you're happy now and that won't change, but the reason that statistically you're doomed to failure is because almost everyone changes at those ages. Some people do it later. Some get it out of their system young. It sounds like you're in the former category, not intending to be offensive, but I think even from what you've said, you already know that. I'm not talking about sex with a bunch of girls. If that's something you feel you need to do, fine, but you'll find that there's a lot of change you'll go through when you've been on your own/single for awhile, without the constant 'crutch' that a serious girlfriend would provide.
Well, I ended up sort of giving advice anyway, didn't I. Well, I can't tell you what to do, just give you some food for thought. I had a paragraph of what I would do here, but it's gone. Not my place (or anyone's) to say. Good luck. |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2003 : 21:46:07
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I would ask yourself if the god issue is really the main problem (i'm an atheist and my wife was raised as a Methodist). I'm only reading what you wrote (obviously I don't really know what's going on), but the following passage sound like a warning:
"She also thinks I need to experience life (which is not who I am...I'm a homebody...I love my computer) and have sex with other girls (I would like that, of course...what guy wouldn't?) but not at the expense of losing her. She thinks we're at different stages in our life "
You probably are at different stages. She's in grad school and is probably working hard and meeting new people who have interests similar to her. Grad school can be a fun time, since as a cohort you are working your way through the difficult tasks of grad school. Intense new friendships are common. It may be bothering her that you aren't building a future in college or in career path job. And, she may be finding more in common with other grad students. Do you ever go out with the other grad students?
Good luck.
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2003 : 22:13:36
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for what it's worth, here are my thoughts:
i think you should focus less on whether or not you guys should get married, and focus more on yourself. you seem like a very smart guy, with potential to do way more than what you're doing.. have you thought about going to school at all? even at community college at night or something?
frankly i think 20 is WAY to young to get married. not that's it's that way for everyone, but for me, and most people i know.. what's the rush?
if she's suggesting that you need to sleep with other people and throwing out the "we're at different stages" line, those are not the best signs.. but if you guys communicate well, like you say, then that's a good sign.. there's no saying that you couldn't grow together and stay in the relationship.
in a nutshell: try to put aside your relationship worries and think about what you want out of life. try and find something you really like and pursue it (hopefully something that will pay the bills down the road - more so than part time jobs at Pizza Slut).. if you guys are still together a few years from now, excellent. if not, there are plenty of cute girls out there.
unfortunately you need to get out of the house to meet them though..
good luck (hope that didn't sound too harsh)
ps. sex always goes through ups and downs in a long term relationship. that's normal. if it's down for a loooong time then you might want to be concerned.
the religious difference thing should be something you could get past (reach some middleground on)..
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Edited by - floop on 09/02/2003 22:27:16 |
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theonecontender
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
565 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2003 : 22:55:15
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Why do you post such personal history on the internet?
p.s. Good luck! |
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2003 : 02:10:28
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He's among friends...?
re: religion..if you believe it's hocus-pocus bullshit (which it is; sorry Xians, if you send me some dragons and unicorns i may reconsider), and she's dellusional..err..believes in the Church and God, and has absolutely no doubts or plans to join the real world..she might be better off with someone who lives in the same fantasy world..which doesn't mean it's too late for you!
It's a 'big' part of any religerous persons' life, and tho i think it's silly, i can relate and understand where they're coming from.
The age thing is a serious consideration as well, especially at your ages..you're both rather young and will be going through considerable personal changes in the next few years..and it might not be in the same direction.
I don't understand why breaking up is considered such a terrible thing. You had a few good years together, hopefully you both grew and expanded from it. You've reached the point where it's time to move on. Go forth and prosper!
(Note: I probably have no idea what i'm talking about.) |
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Scarla O
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
947 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2003 : 04:56:04
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I think Dave's advice is good. |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6196 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2003 : 05:20:46
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Ok first of all I'm only 18 years old
so I'm not that experienced either
I recognize some of the problems you mention
Is God the center of a marriage?
1. No, the love between two people is
2. Yes, if you see God as love.
Does is it really matter?
I guess the real problem is
that she wants to go to church
or pray with you
My advice: Go to church with her, although you don't believe
in God, you will see what she likes about it, you will know
what you dislike about it. Sure you've been to church as a child
but this is different (maybe she goes to a whole other church?). Maybe you will even like something the priest(?) says, they often talk about life in general (well mine does) not only about vague God/Jesus/Holy Ghost-things.
Go with her, 2 or 3 times and talk with her what the problems are.
What you hate about organised believe.
Give it a change
note: DON'T SEE IT AS A TRIP TO SEE IF YOU WANT TO BE A CHRISTIAN AGAIN! YOU PROBABLY ALREADY KNOW THAT ANSWER. JUST GO AND SEE HOW EVERYTHING WORKS.
ask your girlfriend to explain her feelings for religion
---------------------------------
There are plenty things in religion
that you can take your own way
Read what you want to read
Hear what you want to hear
This is how Gays and Women are Discriminated by
christians. It's not really in the bibble, just the way
people read it. Well I'm not really here to talk about that problem
so let's move on--->
Therefore I can stay happy with things I don't believe
for instance:
The Bibble says that you should love God above everything else
That is absolutely impossible if you aks me
I love my girlfriend and friends and family way and way more
And I consider that they don't love God more than their relatives
But I do think God loves us
and that he's in someway important to us
I haven't really worked this out yet
But I believe God is in us all
and represents all our good things
(I'm really talking crap right now)
So in that way he's in all the people I love
Ain't it cool?
Religion doesn't have to be the problem
She should let you decide what you want to do
She should give you freedom
the freedom in religion you desire
Now the sex thing:
you must have slept with her a hundred times
you must have seen every part of her body naked
there's nothing left to be really spontanious (spelling?) about
Once a week sex at that stage is better than every day I guess
That's just boring. Then you would be sucking the creativity out of your sex life. The less sex you have, the better it gets (well be aware of the cold turkey effect. Still have sex with her once a week)
Sure there is a sexual drift
But do you really want her? No
Do you really need it? Yes
just play the trick you did when you were 14
shake hands with shorty!
sincerely,
Bill Goodman
aka
Yop
''it's not a box, it's a submarine'' |
Edited by - billgoodman on 09/03/2003 05:22:47 |
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blackpurse
= Cult of Ray =
USA
299 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2003 : 09:59:57
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Well, I'm gonna try to post this without sounding like some ol gramma, but I too think that -- at 20 -- you're younger than you think you are. I -- and everybody
I know -- certainly was. I think I told somebody else on the forum that the first thing you have to do in a relationship issue is stop and take a hard look at yourself and who you are and what your goals/wants/needs/values are. I will bet my next five paychecks that these will change for you in the next 5-10 years. And for Megan as well. I've never been a big proponent of solidifing a marrage/relationship/etc at 20. Maybe some of our folks did it, but I really think that the high divorce rate is due to the fact that people go rushing into things before they figure out who they are. And for most people, the 20s are the best time to really get out there -- even if you're a homebody -- and figure out what you want/need etc.
Hon, I hate to say this, but I think you're headed for your first major heartbreak. Not knowing you well enough, or Megan at all, what you've told us here includes some (almost cliché) red flags that signal the end of a relationship. She has said to you, in different words, but basically, the following things:
1) "I think you/we should start seeing other people"
2) "I think we're at different life stages and have different needs"
3) "I don't think a marriage between us would work" -- because of your difference in religious beliefs (or lack of them.) Whether or not your (or her) philosophies on God are valid is not the point. The fact is that they conflict -- and while not necessarily important to you, it is important to her -- and that's the point. You disagree strongly on an issue that she has stated is important to her and therefore not a point of negotiation. (Sidebar -- others have posted -- and I agree -- that you should take time to evaluate whether your are truly an athiest or simply anti-organized religion. I too am a "recovering catholic" and I have a strong aversion to organized religion, yet I find my beliefs to be very mystical and spiritual. If this is the case, I would suggest making an attempt to show her that you are spiritual, you just don't necessarily use the same vernacular).
4) She hasn't said this but she has shown "I don't have the same sexual appetite as you do these days." The quantity of sex indeed does diminish over time in long-term relationships, but usually there's a newborn to blame, although grad school can be as exhausting as a newborn (I'll argue that vehemently, but having not done grad school, I'd probably lose because of lack of personal experience).
But #s 1 and 2 are the red flags. This is a person who is gently trying to get out of a relationship without hurting anybody, an impossible feat. Breakups always hurt, and they hurt both sides. From what you've told us, it really seems like she's analyzed some of her goals/wants/needs/values and perhaps realizing that a long term relationship (with you, or anybody at this point for that matter) isn't fitting into her scheme. This does not make you the bad guy, or her the evil wench. And I don't think its an age difference, because 20 and 25 isn't really that far a stretch. But she is looking into the future, she may be a little bit ahead of you in terms of learning who exactly she is, and perhaps what she really wants is the guy with whom she can SHARE her flavor of spirituality. People who are really into their spirituality (note I am NOT using the word religion) tend to want to share that, and if you don't, that's not your fault or her fault. I will agree with other posters that maybe its time for you to be glad for two great years, and try not to resent each other too much in those especially yucky days when you first formally call it quits. I suspect the resentment may be high -- I could be wrong but it appears that you made the move to SC, PA, to accommodate her grad school, since in another post you mentioned you were moving with no job prospects. Making a big move is scary enough, now throw in this now-shaky relationship, ick. I totally relate to your reluctance to callig it quits and if you do break this up, I would totally understand a lot of anger and resentment on your part.
Now here's the part where I sincerely hope you will not take this as patronizing, but I've got 22 years on you, and my friend, as old as you think you are, you're only 20. I thiought I had it pretty much together when I was 20 and I look back on that and laugh. And I also shudder when I think of where I would be now had I stuck with whom I thought was Mr. Right at 20. (Probably jail, because I would have had to kill him and a self-defense defense didn't hold up real well in 1980). And for me (and a lot of people I know), I went through massive changes in my early to mid 20s. You just moved out of your mom's house two years ago -- that's a major milestone in and of itself. I think Megan's right -- as homebody as you are, you need to sow your oats, not just in relationships, but you need to skip around a few jobs -- (walk off some, get fired from others) play in a few more bands, and maybe start solidifying the method with which you're going to get out of minimum/low wage hell for the rest of your life. (I spent my 20s in an overly romanticized slacker existence, it was great, but by the time I hit 30 it got old…) Take her example and start trying to form your personal goals/wants/needs/values list. You said there's some fundamental differences on your end - f'rinstance she isn't as obsessive about music as you are. Hmmmmm, you're a musician, you're in a band, you spend an awful lot of time on a website devoted to one of your favorite songwriters … yet she's indifferent. All of this is pointing to what appears to be a really nice girl, a very intelligent girl, a thoughtful girl, but Not Ms. Right. You're only 20. I think you learned a lot from Megan, you had a great relationship, and perhaps moving out of town is going to do you lots of good. I think once you analyze your needs/wants/goals etc., Ms Right will turn up (BTW, Ms. Right will not be Ms. Perfect.)
I'm not going to sugar-coat this and say the next few months or even years will not suck. Post-breakups always suck, but my experience is that everybody I know with any kind of character or wisdom to them has had a few heartbreaks in their life, and has questioned their self-value as a result. In the meantime, I agree with others that you might want to take a few classes at Penn State anyway. You don't have to declare a major, just get into the feel of going to school, and frankly, those gen ed classes everybody has to take might help you start to put together the aforementioned needs/wants/values list -- if nothing else it will give you a vernacular of generally accepted labels to discuss them with. (I recommend a beginning philosophy course -- it's really fun to argue existence in a classful of usually Christians forced to be there -- and most philosophy teachers tend to be atheists anyway, so you'll hone good argument skills and be the teacher's pet to boot!) At the risk of sounding like Dear Abby, it will get you meeting people who are roughly your age, and in the same boat as you -- out of mom's house and out of town for the first time in your life, and at this point, not even searching for answers because first you have to figure out what the questions are.
If its any consolation, I didn't meet steaknsabre until I was 30, we weren't married till 36. Most of our friends/peers found their "partners" in their late 20s or 30s, and the marraiges are fairly solid -- I believe -- precisely because they had already shook out their personal bugs first. I'm not necessarily advocating waiting that long (this being pregnant at 42 shit is for the fucking birds -- excuse me but I've got 21 days to go and I'm real fucking crabby) but I am a huge advocate of not committing to anything -- person, job, vocation, philosophy -- at 20. You've got too many questions to figure out at this point, much less answers to them. Your original post, and many others you've made on this forum indicate you're an intelligent, thoughtful, and generally good person, so don't let this crash your self esteem. And stop comparing yourself to your sisters, peers, etc. YOU need to just take a little time out and decide what YOU want and what YOUR life is going to be.
"Sacred cows make the best burgers!"
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gracie
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
573 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2003 : 11:34:35
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jesus, just chill out, you think far too much.
i do not think you have to believe in god in order to get married or have a meaningful marriage. i do not believe in god and niether does my boyfriend but i certainly want to get married within the next few years ~(i'm 23 now).
being a women, i can't give you advice on whether you should sleep with more girls. my gut instinct says that you don't need to have sex with alot of girls to make you happy. it seems like you want a stable loving relationship with one women and that doesn't mix with sleeping about. i think there is a real pressure on men to sleep with lots of women and get wasted, to "enjoy" their youth by being hedonistc. you don't need to buy into that bullshit. if you're not happy in the relationship and want to save it, you and megan have to try and work it out. give it your best shot before you call it a day, you might regret it later if you just give up without a fight.
you may have to accept certain aspects of her religon, you have to decide whether it is worth the effort in the long term.
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2003 : 12:25:08
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| i agree. having sex with lots of women would be terrible. terrible terrible terrible. |
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El Barto
= Song DB Master =
USA
4020 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2003 : 12:36:12
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God, this thread is fucking depressing. Because of it I had to lay in bed for a good hour staring out the window with a blank stare on my face thinking about how horrible life is. It fucking sucks, you know...like, I fucking hate being 20 years old because through my entire life I've always been mentally older than my actual age. I've always looked up to adults and I've always tried to hang with people older than myself...it's just always been that way for me. I would have skipped kindergarden if my birthday wasn't after December 1st (I guess that's some weird ass law that you can't skip a grade if your birthday is after a certain date).
I think about it a lot...over and over...what my life would be like otherwise. I'm familiar with the fact that I will be changing, etc., but I've pretty much broken it down and decided that my future will consist of one or all of the following areas: Writing, Computers, and Music. These are my passions. I cam up with the whole theory a few years ago that people are born with certain talents and gifts, and life is a journey to discover these gifts, make them grow, and persue them as your life's work or whatever. I believe certain people have the creative edge that others don't, and I believe I have this creative edge...I'd like to live my life in a way where I take advantage of this creativity rather than work on computers my entire life because not everyone is creative and I shouldn't waste my talent.
I'm a loner...I don't have a desire to go out and meet all sorts of people and date all sorts of girls. I see a relationship as a permanent thing. I can't fathom or comprehend the idea that people get together in a relationship as a temporary thing...it just doesn't make sense to me. I want permanence to it...I want to know that the foundation that we build in a relationship is not in vein...sure one grows from being in a relationship and then quitting. Seriously though, do you know what I mean? I can't see myself breaking up with Megan, then dating all sorts of girls and dumping them and being dumped, etc. just to find something that I already have now.
My sexual desires have always been strong...since I've been a kid I've had a strong feeling towards females in general. Even being very young, I longed to see naked breasts. I don't know why...I just always have. I've been enjoying perhaps an unhealthy dosage of pornography for YEARS and well as "shake with shorty." I've always been attracted to good looking women but I know it's just a physical thing and I know that they're not what I'm looking for. In other words, yeah sure I'd fuck em but I don't want anything long term. I guess that's what being a guy does to you. I've always had overactive hoarmones, and I don't know why. No matter how many times we've had sex, I still desire sex with her. It's more than just a getting off thing...sex is a way where two people can get closer than any other humanly way possible. It's a union unlike any other, with the added bonus that it just feels good.
I know it's hard for everyone to give judgement or proper advice...since day one I never considered our relationship a normal relationship as normal relationships go. I never felt that our relationship could be compared to any other or judged by cultural or social norms or what have you. It's hard to say without seeing us on a day to day basis, but I tried to give the most clear explaination as possible. I know everyone means well with their advice, and I did ask to say how you truely felt.
I never meant to say I'm getting married at 20. That was really never the plan...at the earliest it would be once she got out of school. That give us more time to really grow and think about what we want out of life. There's nothing that I can think of that I want to do that requires me to break up with Megan. The only thing that comes close to it would be if I wanted to go to college now. I don't think I can get into Penn State main, and even if I do, I don't think Penn State main offers the major I'd prefer to get (Professional Writing...Creative Writing). I hate school and I can't imagine going back.
Ultimately, I can't imagine losing Megan. We've always had a sort of permanence to our relationship...it never had a mortatlity, it was always assumed we'd be together. I don't think we should just quit right now because statisticly we're doomed. That's fucking lame. If we still love eachother and want to be together, why can't we do that? Am I ruining my life? Being a loner homebody who doesn't really want a whole lot of real-world friends, am I missing out on a lot? Should I go home and live with my parents more and go to school? I don't want to lose Megan. FUCK.
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FRANK BLACK SATAN WORKSHIP BLACK MASS |
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El Barto
= Song DB Master =
USA
4020 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2003 : 12:36:48
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I also really want to hear what Sarah (mere) has to say...please sarah, help me out!
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FRANK BLACK SATAN WORKSHIP BLACK MASS |
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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2003 : 12:44:23
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| What, you don't want to hear what I have to say? Just joking. But mere has hardly been here for the last little while, she says this forum was beginning to become too negative. |
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This Is It
- FB Fan -
141 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2003 : 13:00:30
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| The advice isn't even important; it's your frame of mind. In a musical analogy you've probably listened to a song or album and thought it was crap, then in a less cynical, more optimistic mood you listened again and decided it was pretty good afterall. There's no facts of life. Perspective reigns. If everybody decides that the sky is green, then green it is. How you perceive and experience life is how it is. There's no other reality than what you experience. To me, the question isn't what the correct advice is so much as what technique will work best for you in gaining a perspective on life that will keep you mentally focused. You can spend an endless amount of time sorting your relationship into details and comparing and contrasting this and that, but you'll soon find that the details are infinite. Your perspective on the other hand is singular; right here, right now. Examine that perspective. Don't look at like it's an x-ray that you hang on the wall and examine, feel your perspective. How do you feel at this very moment? This exact moment is all that matters and it's where you need to focus all of your energy, This Is It my friend. |
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El Barto
= Song DB Master =
USA
4020 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2003 : 13:09:05
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Carolyn, I'd like to hear what you think too, of course. Thanks for putting it that way, This Is It. It's very true. A lot of times when I ask for advice, I'm not looking for an answer per se, I'm more or less looking for people's opinion or perspective, although obviously it's not as completely based on facts as my own because I can't list every fact of our relationship. When I hear what others have to say, it just gives me more to think about.
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FRANK BLACK SATAN WORKSHIP BLACK MASS |
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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2003 : 13:56:55
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Didn't somebody start an advice thread like Dear Floop or something?
I gotta read this thread again before I start spoutin shit. |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6196 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2003 : 14:17:48
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About having sex with lots of people (off topic?)
pornography is ok and all
but fornicating a lot of women is not
Physical you would be ok
But mentally
after your orgasm you would feel empty
after every orgasm you would feel even more empty
on topic:
since you're a loner (that doesn't have to be bad)
mentally you would be fucked if you fucked around
sure you'll have pleasure
but you need a soulmate
Megan is yours
you still love her
you want to be with her
that's fine
you don't need anymore
actually
''it's not a box, it's a submarine'' |
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Atheist4Catholics
= Cult of Ray =
USA
925 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2003 : 14:26:07
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Jim,
Tell her you want Frank Black to be at the center of your relationship - JK
Seriously though, being an atheist myself (surprised?) and coming from a very religious background (I was Christian for 20 years) I can understand your dilemma. When you've been brought up a certain way you have a difficult time seeing things outside your views. When I was a X-ian the thought of God not existing was about as plausible as believing in Zues or unicorns. Now that I'm an atheist, The Bible sounds like The Sword In The Stone to me. If she's a diehard God lover and you're not, I don't think it's going to work out. That said, if she truly loves you than she needs to understand that being an atheist is part of who you are as a person. If she can't be in a relationship with an atheist, than she can't be in a relationship with you. That's the bottom line.
As for the age thing, fuck it. I met my fiancee when she was 17 and I was 19. I left for college a month after we met and we had a long distance relationship for 3 years. It hasn't been all sunshine and roses, in fact it's been really hard sometimes, but here we are nine years later and we're getting married on the 20th of this month. People mature differently. 25 is definitely a hard time because you're usually just out of college and feel completely unsure of what to do next. Those 16 or so years of school where someone else schedules your time and tells you what to do are hard to recover from.
It sounds like you really want this relationship to work. It's not the end of the world if it doesn't, but you should do whatever you can to keep it going. Pretend to be open-minded about religion. Go to church with her a few times and warm the pew for a few hours. Try to have religious discussions with her that don't turn into fights. Compromise is the key as I'm sure you know already. You have to be willing to lose some battles and give up some of the things that you hold sacred.
Sexually things are bound to die down a bit. My fiancee and I can go months without having sex. Unless sex is the foundation of your relationship, don't let it bug you. Just let it happen when it happens. If you stress about it or try to force things it won't help.
www.mp3.com/clootie |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2003 : 15:18:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Carolynanna
Didn't somebody start an advice thread like Dear Floop or something?
I gotta read this thread again before I start spoutin shit.
Dear Floop. that's a good idea. |
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mereubu
= FB QuizMistress =
USA
2677 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2003 : 15:24:56
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Sweet n' sour Christ, it just took me twenty minutes to read all of this!
Jim, it looks like you've been offered a variety of perspectives here, and I'm not sure that mine will be all that illuminating, but here goes. The majority consensus here seems to be that one shouldn't form a permanent attachment at your age. That's probably the advice that I would lean towards too, except that it would be completely hypocritical of me! I met my husband when he was 19 and I was 20, we married within a year (so my honey could keep his financial aid and stay in college), and we're now in our fourteenth year together. I don't know if it's dumb luck or good chemistry or just compatibility of interests, but we're still devoted to each other to an almost stupid degree. That said, I can tell you that making a commitment as early as we did probably has not been the best thing for our careers. We made it through college and grad school together (and yes blackpurse, grad school kills sex just as surely as newborns do!) but were unwilling to go through the even temporary separation that following our academic & artistic ambitions would most likely have dictated. In other words, we've put all our eggs in one basket here, and if anything were to happen either of us, the other wouldn't have much to show except to say, "Hey, I had a really good relationship and we made a pretty neat kid." Also, since we were so young, we went through a number of uncomfortable growth spurts together, and I can clearly see points at which we might have cracked under the strain of balancing our own personal needs and the relationship, and it took a lot of work at these points to keep it all together. I don't think we truly grew up or settled down until our late 20's when we decided to have a kid.
Anyway, I don't know what to tell you in terms of what contributes to the longevity of a relationship. I do know that Bob & I have very similar tastes in music, we read the same books, we've acted together in the same plays, we feel the same way about most things and have the same idiotic sense of humor. We're both agnostic, but we'd consider going to church so that the kid has something to rebel against when she grows up. I'm not at all saying that people have to be alike in order to get along, but I know that shared experience is what my particular relationship is based upon.
I don't think there's any real virtue to sleeping with a lot of people just for the sake of doing it. My husband's never had sex w/anyone but me, and I haven't heard any complaints yet. I wish I hadn't had sex in the long-term relationship previous to this one, because I think I was not ready for all the baggage that comes with it and it made me get pretty deeply involved with someone who was really bad for me. I do think it's important, though, to have compatible sex drives and be willing to communicate about their needs, sex-wise (and as others have said, know when it's time to shake with shorty. Think you're doing ok there. ;-)
I do have to say that I shared your views on college when I was 18. I was raised in a family where I was forced to grow up really quickly, and I think it made me cynical at an early age. I felt older than everyone else, and I thought there was absolutely nothing that further education could offer me. I hated high school--it was nothing but a publicly-funded holding cell as far as I was concerned. I begrudgingly went away to college, and, to my surprise, I loved it. It was the first time that I ever got to do just what I wanted to do and follow my own curiosity about things. I feel like I got to have a whole happy childhood there that I had missed out the first time around (especially once I met my goofy future husband.) Anyway, never underestimate the positive impact of meeting other people who have inquiring minds. (Ugh. That sounds so tabloid!)
BTW, my next-door neighbors are a practicing Catholic and a devout Mormon, and they've been married for over forty years. It looks like they've found some sort of compromise that works for them.
<sigh> I don't know if this has been any help at all, but it's all I've got for today.
{This message brought to you by Vicodin. Thanks, TMJ!} |
Edited by - mereubu on 09/03/2003 15:27:56 |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2003 : 15:26:07
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quote:
Originally posted by billgoodman
About having sex with lots of people (off topic?)
pornography is ok and all
but fornicating a lot of women is not
Physical you would be ok
But mentally
after your orgasm you would feel empty
after every orgasm you would feel even more empty
i agree and disagree. i think if you have tons of ultra-casual sex partners, that will leave you feeling empty, ultimately, because sex is always better when there's an actual connection with the person (other than purely physical).. BUT at the same time, there's nothing wrong with having a few purely physical "relatinoships" either.. especailly after you've gone through a break up and you aren't really looking to jump into another relationship.
i mean, everyone has their needs, right? sometimes it's a good distraction, when you're in a place in your life where you aren't really looking for anything serious. |
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This Is It
- FB Fan -
141 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2003 : 15:31:58
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what is God to Christians? There's a multitude of aspects that can be used to define the word, but in the end, most Christians would agree that God is everything.
So what's everything to an atheist? It would seem that everything is, well, ...everthing. It's just what happens. So atheists say Everything, Christians say God. So it really doesn't matter from an atheists standpoint what word you use to symbolize everything. It can be God, or envelope, or bowtie, or dockers. So next time Megan wants to bring up your differences on God substitute the word God for everything and say "to me God is the symbolization for anything and everything in existence past, present, and future." end of argument. You will go on with a fulfilling relationship with a girl that loves you as much as you do her and in twenty years you will look back and thank me.
P.S. one more quick plug for eastern philoshies: atheists by definition are opposed to omnipotent beings and supreme beings and that type of god. That's not what god means to a Buddhist so really atheism applies to Christianity, Judaism, Islam, those types of practices. |
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2003 : 16:37:03
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hmm..how switching the CS switch to Mast..err..wrong thread.
What if you guys spend some time apart? Is there somewhere you can go for a week, and maybe you guys not talk for that time, and then see what it's like when you get back together?
And sorry for not wanting to re-read all the postings, but how committed is *she* to making this work? |
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El Barto
= Song DB Master =
USA
4020 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2003 : 18:13:14
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Thanks for the story Sarah, I specifically wanted to hear from you because I know you're happily married for so long and after being married young. The whole God and religion thing isn't a MAJOR MAJOR issue as it seems to be made on the forum...it's someone recent. We've always had discussions about religion. She grew up in a very christian family and her parents are very religious (her dad quit the semanary) and have gone from church to church. Apparently she was never super religious but as of late she's been digging christianity. If anything, I could accompany her to mass. Some of the music is cool and stuff...only if it's a Catholic mass. I think Catholics tend to me more realistic and logical than Christians, but that's lumping people together and that's just not right. Perhaps we should both explore eastern religion.
How committed is she? Last night she said something like "I have a hard time believing you're more hurt than I am." She's very committed and doesn't want to lose me.
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FRANK BLACK SATAN WORKSHIP BLACK MASS |
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mereubu
= FB QuizMistress =
USA
2677 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2003 : 19:21:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Carolynanna
What, you don't want to hear what I have to say? Just joking. But mere has hardly been here for the last little while, she says this forum was beginning to become too negative.
Eh, I'm back. Things seem to be mellowing out now that Mars (and Aunt Flo) is receding. |
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switchy
- Gigographer -
USA
324 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2003 : 23:10:16
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as a show of solidarity to Frank Black, I think we should all end our long-term relationships. (of course, that's easy for me to say.. being unlovable, and all.)
though personally i think El Barto fabricated this whole thing as an attempt to squelch the rumors surrounding his and Cult Of Frank's rainbow stars.
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2003 : 07:47:50
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| If I HAVE to be gay, then at least I get to be the smiley on the left. :) |
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speedy_m
= Frankofile =
Canada
3581 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2003 : 12:54:51
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| Aunt Flo.... GOLDEN! Oh, Cleveland. And mere. You tickle me in a way that if Loretta tickled me that way I'd say "Ya. That's nice. That's the spot". |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2003 : 13:06:47
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| For some reason I assumed it WASN'T a Family Guy reference, but I'd be curious to know, mere. |
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mereubu
= FB QuizMistress =
USA
2677 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2003 : 13:09:03
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| Glad to oblige. I've heard some folks refer to it as "Aunt Ruby", but I actually have an Aunt Ruby, so that doesn't quite work for me. I'd say, "My Aunt Ruby's coming to visit" and people would laugh. For the life of me, I couldn't tell why. So sad. |
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2003 : 13:30:26
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| My Aunt Ruby became my Uncle Rube..go figure. |
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mereubu
= FB QuizMistress =
USA
2677 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2003 : 14:35:57
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| Wow. How's that working out for her/him? |
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chickenwithtwoheads
= Cult of Ray =
Netherlands
391 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2003 : 15:52:30
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True love will find you in the end
Youll find out just who was your friend
Don’t be sad, I know you will,
But don’t give up until
True love finds you in the end.
This is a promise with a catch
Only if youre looking will it find you
‘cause true love is searching too
But how can it recognise you
Unless you step out into the light?
But don’t give up until
True love finds you in the end.
Daniel Johnston "1990" |
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