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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
 Posted - 08/22/2003 : 09:26:42
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I don't think she meant people are born gay and then turned straight.
I think that she meant that there is immense pressure to not be gay via social constructs/norms etc., alot of people stay in the closet for a long time. |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2003 : 09:28:38
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| I suspect that Scarla was probably saying that there are probably more genetically gay people than realize it, but they suppress it because it's 'normal' to be hetero and not to be gay. Again, that presupposes that you buy into the whole genetic theory... |
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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2003 : 09:29:42
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and I pretty much do, so far. And that's where some of the hardcore christians tend to freak out.
And who wrote that song,
"There's many colours in the homo rainbow,
don't be afraid to let your colours shine"... |
Edited by - Carolynanna on 08/22/2003 09:51:01 |
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This Is It
- FB Fan -
141 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2003 : 09:52:51
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It seems to me that many homosexuals feign heterosexuality, but at the same time it would seem that many heterosexuals feign homosexuality(See Girls Gone Wild volumes 2-4 for reference). The reasoning seems for the most part to be the same; they are endeavoring to be accepted.
He who can does - he who cannot, teaches. (George Bernard Shaw)
The only difference between doctors and lawyers is that lawyers merely rob you, whereas doctors rob you and kill you, too. (Anton Chekhov)
By all means marry; if you get a good wife, you'll become happy; if you get a bad one, you'll become a philosopher. (Socrates) |
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FrequencyOfGlow
- FB Fan -
USA
157 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2003 : 11:09:56
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Jesus Christ!!!!!! I simply wanted to say hi to any other gay Frank Black fans. It's a sense of community I was hoping to foster. Much like the FB Fans In Chicago and FB Fans in Nashville threads that popped up. Funny that those threads were NOT moved into the void of general chat.
The assumption that my original post was nothing more than an attempt to "hook up" is at the basest level homophobic and ignorant (yes Zsolt, I am refering to you). A few narrow-minded dullards start shaking in their boots because somebody says the word gay, and this thread is thrown to the back of the bus.
If this indeed the prevailing attitude of this forum, then I would just as soon opt out.
I like that lemur, I lick it. That's velvety! |
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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2003 : 11:15:14
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| Freq, nothing is simple on the forum and you know we love to debate. I just like to gain some insight. |
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This Is It
- FB Fan -
141 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2003 : 11:15:58
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| no reason to opt out. people are moving, flowing creatures. they're not stone carvings or pictures in time. maybe they put their foot in their mouth once or they just need to re-word their opinions more eloquently. try hard not to judge based on one, or two, or even a hundred instances. stay with it and see that the people on this forum are great human beings at best; poor communicators at worst. |
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FrequencyOfGlow
- FB Fan -
USA
157 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2003 : 11:19:21
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Carolynanna, I respect your thrist for insight and new outlooks. I love to debate like anyone. My favorite people in this world are those with differing opinions who want to defend them. I was just put off that my original intent for starting this thread has turned into the great debate and has brought out, in my opinion, some real ugly attitudes. I guess I should know better than to predict these things. I just wanted to make friends, is all.
I like that lemur, I lick it. That's velvety! |
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FrequencyOfGlow
- FB Fan -
USA
157 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2003 : 11:20:15
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OK, I've calmed down now.
I like that lemur, I lick it. That's velvety! |
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TRANSMARINE
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
2002 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2003 : 11:28:28
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Hi Freq...I'm not sure its spawned ugly attitudes, so much as interested attitudes, some rooted in uncomfortability and some rooted in understanding. I'm afraid most of this is mainly my fault, and I apologize for the furor it has created. But nevertheless, it's all out for grabs now.
I would like, however, to point out SIX threads in the Frank Black Forum I feel do not belong there and should be uprooted and redistributed to a 'safer' area:
JAINISM
I NEED A FRANK BLACK FRIEND
WHAT AMP DOES RICH GILBERT USE
DOUG SAHM
SOMETHING ABOUT MARY
EAST COAST BLACK OUT
These have got me feeling highly uncomfortable as a gay man.
Catchin' blue in his eyes that were brown
-bRIAN |
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This Is It
- FB Fan -
141 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2003 : 11:31:25
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quote:
Originally posted by TRANSMARINE
Hi Freq...I'm not sure its spawned ugly attitudes, so much as interested attitudes, some rooted in uncomfortability and some rooted in understanding. I'm afraid most of this is mainly my fault, and I apologize for the furor it has created. But nevertheless, it's all out for grabs now.
I would like, however, to point out SIX threads in the Frank Black Forum I feel do not belong there and should be uprooted and redistributed to a 'safer' area:
JAINISM
I NEED A FRANK BLACK FRIEND
WHAT AMP DOES RICH GILBERT USE
DOUG SAHM
SOMETHING ABOUT MARY
EAST COAST BLACK OUT
These have got me feeling highly uncomfortable as a gay man.
Catchin' blue in his eyes that were brown
-bRIAN
the off-topic area is more interesting than Frank Black chat anyways. How much can you talk about Frank Black anyways? Don't make the poor guy feel self-conscious. |
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TRANSMARINE
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
2002 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2003 : 11:51:03
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quote:
Originally posted by This Is It
[quote]Originally posted by TRANSMARINE
Hi Freq...I'm not sure its spawned ugly attitudes, so much as interested attitudes, some rooted in uncomfortability and some rooted in understanding. I'm afraid most of this is mainly my fault, and I apologize for the furor it has created. But nevertheless, it's all out for grabs now.
I would like, however, to point out SIX threads in the Frank Black Forum I feel do not belong there and should be uprooted and redistributed to a 'safer' area:
JAINISM
I NEED A FRANK BLACK FRIEND
WHAT AMP DOES RICH GILBERT USE
DOUG SAHM
SOMETHING ABOUT MARY
EAST COAST BLACK OUT
These have got me feeling highly uncomfortable as a gay man.
Catchin' blue in his eyes that were brown
-bRIAN
the off-topic area is more interesting than Frank Black chat anyways. How much can you talk about Frank Black anyways? Don't make the poor guy feel self-conscious.
[/quote
Hi This Is It,
Yes it does seem to be more interesting doesnt it? I dont think Frequency feels self-concious, and its not my intent to do so. I feel though that, because this is my favorite website, in some way there has been an injustice. Frequency's original thread basically asked "ARE THERE ANY OTHER GAY FRANK BLACK FANS OUT THERE?" and was deemed unimportant enough to be thrown into another forum. Fine. But it seems that a majority of the people against the thread are upset by the fact that it has the gay theme...as if sexual force is going to override the topic. Well, I'm gay, and 'sex' is not the first thought that pops into my head when I hear the word 'gay'. So what is it that freaks these certain few out? I have an equal amount of straight as I do gay friends. And like anyone of any 'persuasion' (I'm using it sarcastically of course) I seek out a little more those who are more like me...but its not discrimination. And I do kinda feel here there is some discrimination happening. The above topics I listed as not belonging in the Frank Black General Chat range from religion, to a movie, to a power crisis event, to a completely different artist, to a personals ad, and finally a product advertisment. If a personality can't fit in thee somewhere, then certainly NONE of the afore mentioned do either. Period.
Catchin' blue in his eyes that were brown
-bRIAN |
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FrequencyOfGlow
- FB Fan -
USA
157 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2003 : 13:59:18
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Yeah, what he said.
I like that lemur, I lick it. That's velvety! |
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This Is It
- FB Fan -
141 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2003 : 14:12:37
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quote:
Hi This Is It,
Yes it does seem to be more interesting doesnt it? I dont think Frequency feels self-concious, and its not my intent to do so. I feel though that, because this is my favorite website, in some way there has been an injustice. Frequency's original thread basically asked "ARE THERE ANY OTHER GAY FRANK BLACK FANS OUT THERE?" and was deemed unimportant enough to be thrown into another forum. Fine. But it seems that a majority of the people against the thread are upset by the fact that it has the gay theme...as if sexual force is going to override the topic. Well, I'm gay, and 'sex' is not the first thought that pops into my head when I hear the word 'gay'. So what is it that freaks these certain few out? I have an equal amount of straight as I do gay friends. And like anyone of any 'persuasion' (I'm using it sarcastically of course) I seek out a little more those who are more like me...but its not discrimination. And I do kinda feel here there is some discrimination happening. The above topics I listed as not belonging in the Frank Black General Chat range from religion, to a movie, to a power crisis event, to a completely different artist, to a personals ad, and finally a product advertisment. If a personality can't fit in thee somewhere, then certainly NONE of the afore mentioned do either. Period.
Catchin' blue in his eyes that were brown
-bRIAN
alrighty
I meant by talking about FB all the time, FB would be self-concious, not frequency. And I was just saying that this general forum is more interesting than the forum that's Frankblack and only Frankblack.
I understand yr point about seeking out people to talk with that you know you have common interests with. Like I know the FB message board is more fun to talk on than the, oh, lets say the Megadeath message board. It doesn't mean that I'm automatically going to get along with an FB forum member, but it's a better place to start. |
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TRANSMARINE
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
2002 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2003 : 14:33:42
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This Is It, I apologize for misinterpreting your last post. My bad. And you are one the top posters I appreciate in this thread, so thank you very much for your input. And yes...this message board is worlds more fun than a Megadeth board ! Peace.
Catchin' blue in his eyes that were brown
-bRIAN |
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speedy_m
= Frankofile =
Canada
3581 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2003 : 14:47:17
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| I don't find it difficult to understand how someone could be born gay (the "genetic" "theory"), I find it much more difficult to understand why someone who is not genetically gay would choose that lifestyle, despite the inherant difficulties. Like getting bashed pubically on a forum simply for making an innoccent comment. I don't like it when people wear their particular "cause" on their sleeve either, but no one trashed Jason for looking for Nashville FB fans. |
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TRANSMARINE
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
2002 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2003 : 15:03:19
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The whole genetics vs. socialistics viewpoint I believe is moot. Because no matter what I, or any gay person may say, there will always be a heterosexual explaination against it. Which is fine. Let them spend time trying to negate simplicity. I don't care what that minority class of stupid thinkers think. Speedy has hit it on the head. Why would any person of ANY group want to switch gears just for the sake of abnormality? Therin lies the bottom line. But this, I dont believe is a which-came-first? debate. I wanna get back to the issue at hand...Frank Black Rules! AND I WANT TO MEET AND SHARE MY ENTHUSIASM WITH OTHER GAY GUYS FOR THE BIG BALDIE! It's no different than a smoking section for crying out loud! (Except you CANT get second-hand gayness, El Barto and zSolt...contrary to your opinions.)
Catchin' blue in his eyes that were brown
-bRIAN |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2003 : 15:16:36
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Heh... second-hand gayness. Reminds me of Homer: "He didn't get you GAY, did he?!"
As for Mike, yeah, I don't understand why someone would choose the lifestyle. That was exactly what I said. A lot of people do a lot of things that I don't understand or wouldn't want to, which doesn't make me right or them wrong, we're just different. As for genetically, no, of course it's not difficult to understand, and that was also my point: it's an easy way out for people to say, "oh, it's born into them" or whatever they might say. But I find it difficult to believe there's a "gay gene". But you and I can have this debate (once again) in person as I believe that fostering debate was not the intent of this thread and I apologize to anyone whom I may have inadvertedly offended by my questions and theories and discussions.
Now then, back to your originally intended discussion. Have a gay old time! |
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mereubu
= FB QuizMistress =
USA
2677 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2003 : 15:18:41
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Brian, since your original attempt at setting aside a space has been pretty much co-opted and turned into the strange and tedious thing that it now is, I think you would be more than justified in starting a new thread in this area. "Cult of Gay" and "Teenager of the Queer" are both pure gold.
P.S. I'm sure everybody already knows by now, but Frank just donated his time & effort to covering "Sugar Daddy" for the Hedwig in a Box CD for the Harvey Milk School. I can't wait to hear it. |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2003 : 15:34:03
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| Nice... suggests a name and calls it 'pure gold'. I thought Black Rider was good too, if a little less direct (gay old time...). But I grudingly admit that yours are better. |
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El Barto
= Song DB Master =
USA
4020 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2003 : 16:01:26
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Thanks for labeling me a homophobe. Listen up, this is how the forum is run. Just by putting "Frank Black" in your thread doesn't qualify your thread to be allowable in the Frank Black chat forum. Some topics are more related to Frank Black than others, whether vaguely or not (Doug Sahm, and did you even read the Mary or Blackout threads?). If any of those tend to conversation which is completely seperate from FB, I will gladly move it.
Freq, I think you're very naive for thinking that posting a message on the internet saying "HEY I'M GAY, ANY OTHER GAY FRANK BLACK FANS OUT THERE!?!?" won't gather attention or debate or whatever. Welcome to earth. If you're willing to come to a public forum and declare subjects which you may deem personal or not, then you have to be willing to accept the response to said subject. I think it falls somewhere under that first amendment or something.
You're making it sound like by simply moving this thread to the GENERAL CHAT forum where it belongs I somehow up and called you a faggot or something, pardon my french (this word is strictly used as an example and despite others opinions on me, I wouldn't seriously use it in this tone). This is how the forum is run. If you don't like it, you don't have to stay. Sorry!
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FRANK BLACK SATAN WORKSHIP BLACK MASS |
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2003 : 16:02:10
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| Good point TRANS - i haven't really looked at those items, but they prolly should be in General as well..gawd knows i spend very little time in FB chat..hehhe |
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TRANSMARINE
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
2002 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2003 : 16:24:52
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You're making it sound like by simply moving this thread to the GENERAL CHAT forum where it belongs I somehow up and called you a faggot or something, pardon my french (this word is strictly used as an example and despite others opinions on me, I wouldn't seriously use it in this tone).
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FRANK BLACK SATAN WORKSHIP BLACK MASS
[/quote]
Then what are you trying to say, El Barto? Has it really come down to name-calling? LOL! If you wouldn't 'seriously use it in this tone', then maybe you should pardon your own french and transplant yourself somewhere else. Oh, I'm sorry...you just used it as an example. My bad. I feel a lot better now. Sheesh.
Catchin' blue in his eyes that were brown
-bRIAN |
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mereubu
= FB QuizMistress =
USA
2677 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2003 : 16:34:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Cult_Of_Frank
Nice... suggests a name and calls it 'pure gold'. I thought Black Rider was good too, if a little less direct (gay old time...). But I grudingly admit that yours are better.
I didn't suggest those names, silly boy! TRANSMARINE did in an earlier post.
Heh-heh, Black Rider. That's funny, too. |
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Chris Knight
= Cult of Ray =
USA
899 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2003 : 17:23:45
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I'll concede that some of the threads in the Frank Black chat are of just-as-questionable relevance as this one and that I was a bit over-eager to point out this thread's irrelevance. However, I stand by my original convictions. I've no problem at all with the existence of this thread or participation in it, and I do not agree that placement of it into the general chat area constitutes any form of prejudice. Anyway, I'll cease posting on this very miniscule matter and hope that you all can do the same, if only for the sake of returning this thread to its original premise. Peace out.
When the hell is Bravo gonna put Twin Peaks back on the air? |
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El Barto
= Song DB Master =
USA
4020 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2003 : 17:52:45
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TRANSMARINE: Read my fucking message for god's sake. The point went way over your head.
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FRANK BLACK SATAN WORKSHIP BLACK MASS |
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TRANSMARINE
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
2002 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2003 : 18:24:58
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Ok, El Barto. I reread it. It still makes no sense. Please rephrase and give me another chance. And knock off the language! Your WAY to passionate in your homophobia. LOL.
You know what? Why dont you reread it. First off, there's no reason for Frequency to feel that his simple inquiry would spurn such controversy. It shouldnt have. I think YOU did EL BARTO with post #12...you planted the seed of doubt as to the validity of Freq's inquiry. YOU are the niave individual...especially with the Freedom of Speech angle. Didn't Freq practice his right by his original post? And, yes, you fall under the same freedoms as the rest of us, and yet somehow you come across as if Freq's participation is secondary to the situation.
Next, your 'point' as you so call it about so-and-so equating the transplantation of thread to being referred to as 'faggot' is highly homophobic...I'm sorry to say, but it is! And then you go so far as to cushion the 'self-sacrifice' of 'I-would-never-say-this' by trying to sound empathetic. So watch out for the BIG mistake of putting words into others mouths or minds...because thats NOT what I (or anyone else for that matter) have said. From my position, I think the thread replanting is upsetting because it DID deal with Frank Black. It DID constitute eligibility to exist in the Frank Black General Chat. It DID warrant a reason for friendly people (without exclusion) to discuss their favorite artist and at the same time hone evolvement into more specific areas. Perhaps the fault lies in Freq's TITLE of the thread. If it were changed, but included the fact that Frank be the subject somehow and at the same time be labled 'gay-friendly', would that CALM YOU DOWN? I bet you would still move it. And one more thing...what DOES constitute a legitimate requirement for induction into the Frank Black General Chat? Because I previously listed SIX topics that are just as nebulous as THIS ONE.
And to end this post, I apologize to everyone for going out of the way to turn this into a rediculous debate. But like I said. This is my favorite website, and I'll go to the end of my rope to stand up for it. Thank you.
Catchin' blue in his eyes that were brown
-bRIAN |
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El Barto
= Song DB Master =
USA
4020 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2003 : 20:46:25
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You can make the rules when you become the moderator. This thread has absolutely nothing to do with Frank Black, short of being gay FB fans looking for other gay FB fans. If some guy posted looking for girls who love FB, you bet your ass it would end up in General Chat. What belongs in the FB forum? Chat about Frank Black and Frank Black related topics. As I said, when the topic becomes beyond FB, it gets moved. The East Coast BLACK-Out thread is FB-related, READ IT. Doug Sahm? Frank Black-related.
So go ahead, call me names. I don't give a fuck if you think I'm a homophobe, racist, whatever. Big fucking deal. And I still stand that Frequency was naive to think that posting such a message wouldn't stir something up. Have you looked at the other topics? Uh, we've discussed just about every other fucking subject under the sun...we get bored to the point where we have to make threads to talk about ABSOFUCKINGLUTELY NOTHING. Oh, someone posts something dealing with homosexuality...there's a new topic! Fuck you if you think I'M the naive one here...get a clue. Stop fucking victimizing yourself and Freq here. There's no fucking victims. He had all the right to post, and we had all the right to respond.
I don't think anyone would deny that I do a good job of moderating, moving threads to their appropriate places, deleting spam, and locking duplicate topics. Don't get all fucking pissy just because I moved a thread about homosexuality just because you yourself are a homosexual. If someone posted a thread for african americans looking for other african americans, it'd be put here. Plain and simple. If you wanna get so fucking testy and nit-picky, I'll go over the first two pages of threads and move those which don't belong. Then will you shut up?
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FRANK BLACK SATAN WORKSHIP BLACK MASS |
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Stuart
- The Clopser -
China
2291 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2003 : 21:01:33
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Ahhh, the human race! I cannot believe people are bitching about whether moving this thread is prejudicial.... thats ridiculous. This is not directly related to news about FB, so therefore it should go into the General Chat area. The way some people are harping on is as if the thread has been deleted.
Bacon....... Its not fantastic |
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El Barto
= Song DB Master =
USA
4020 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2003 : 21:03:46
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Thank you Stuart, you understand my frustration.
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FRANK BLACK SATAN WORKSHIP BLACK MASS |
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2003 : 23:32:29
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Hey Jim..lay off the nice gay man. =)
I think Jim does a great job of Modulating, and his decision with this particular topic isn't grossly inappropriate. It's on the cusp, either way could be argued. Regardless, i wouldn't call it blatent...and it probably doesn't require the harsh words we're seeing.
Would you boys simply kiss and make up?
(And TRANS - lay off the nice straight Modulator. =)
I must say tho - it makes me very happy to see this site suits so many strokes of folks. |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 08/23/2003 : 00:59:19
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| I came here looking for a Queer Eye for the Straight Guy thread and look at what I stumbled into. |
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TRANSMARINE
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
2002 Posts |
Posted - 08/23/2003 : 03:42:03
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Heh...yeah. This is getting old...as old as El Barto. It is kinda funny though seeing him lose his temper, as if modulating the forums is such a painstaking task...as if a gun is to his head. Poor, poor El Barto...so world-weary in the cosmos of cyberspace that a new topic doesn't seem to harm him...and yet when one does present itself he can only speak in colorful metaphores. Good Lord...hmmm...what to do now?
Catchin' blue in his eyes that were brown
-bRIAN |
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Zsolt G.
- FB Fan -
117 Posts |
Posted - 08/23/2003 : 15:09:41
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quote:
The assumption that my original post was nothing more than an attempt to "hook up" is at the basest level homophobic and ignorant (yes Zsolt, I am refering to you)
You forgot to mention how cute I am. Anyway, I guess I should apologize to El Barto because I think my complaining has probably caused him more grief than this is worth. But honestly, there is no advertising on this site, so it's not like he's making a profit off of this thing, so he should do as he likes. If he wants to kick me off, he would be so entitled. May I suggest however, that if there is enough demand, you should open a love-connections forum and let people get their freak on to their hearts content.
I'm curious though "Freq"...what exactly were you looking for with the intial post, if not a hook-up? I mean, there's no shame in sex, but if you're suggesting that you were only looking for other gay Frank Black fans because they have a intellectual perspective on Frank Black's music that you couldn't get from a gorgeous straight man like myself, I think you are a heterophobe, and missing out on a chance to seduce me. Actually, this reminds me that Frank is doing a cover of "Sugar Daddy" from Hedwig and the Angry Inch. I gotta take a cold shower, all this talk is making me HOT! |
Edited by - Zsolt G. on 08/23/2003 15:11:48 |
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miguel
- FB Fan -
USA
213 Posts |
Posted - 08/23/2003 : 15:24:12
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| uh.. yeah hi.. I'm asexual.. any other asexuals F.B. fans out there? |
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