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Atheist4Catholics
= Cult of Ray =
USA
925 Posts |
 Posted - 07/28/2003 : 14:50:30
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Wow. Is this the softer side of Ebb? Thanks for the compliments.
BTW - Can I say how much I LOVE Brank Flack's reviews. Comparing my "I'll Be Blue" to a game of Dungeons and Dragons is spot on in my opinion. I'm glad someone came on and gave a first impression analysis without feeling the need to soften the blows.
www.mp3.com/clootie |
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El Barto
= Song DB Master =
USA
4020 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2003 : 14:53:24
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Wow, I'm honored to be part of a cynic's top tracks. Glad you liked it :)
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FRANK BLACK SATAN WORKSHIP BLACK MASS |
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Chris Knight
= Cult of Ray =
USA
899 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2003 : 15:45:57
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| We're all waiting for the second half of YOUR review, Derek. ;) |
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Ebb Vicious
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1162 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2003 : 16:02:31
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i go back and forth, i guess i'm pretty mellow right now. probably because i've stayed away and not read much on the board before/since posting in this thread. i'm sure if i went digging i'd find plenty of retards to rag on.
but i'll just leave it at thanks for the ear candy. get to work on the pixies tribute. :)
edit: but if you're gonna be on the pixies tribute, you better reach down inside and find that howl, unless you do 'Lalala Love You'. ;) |
Edited by - Ebb Vicious on 07/28/2003 16:04:05 |
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molin
- FB Fan -
USA
15 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2003 : 19:04:00
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OK before I start I have to mention as a disclaimer that I am one of the B-side contributors, so bear in mind that I am likely all about sour grapes. Also, let me outline my unified theory of cover versions upfront.
To make a successful cover version you should usually meet one of these 3 requirements:
1) You/your band has a distinctive enough sound that you can cover the song straight, no major changes, and it will still have something to offer
2) You make a better version of a (possibly bad) orginal (maybe the execution was bad or the song itself just plain sucked).
3) You change the arrangement so as to make a semi-new song that merely alludes to the original
You can follow this rule and still fail miserably (see the Marilyn Manson and Rob Zombie cuts on the recent Ramones tribute CD), but I believe you ignore it at your peril.
Some examples so you know what side of the fence I'm on:
BAD:
The Ataris' version of Don Henley's "Boys of Summer" is bad because the singer sounds just like Don Henley and the song sticks pretty damn close to the original, even mimicking the original's guitar sound for the little breaks. You could alomst get away with putting the original into rotation instead without the teenyboppers noticing.
Britney Spears' version of Joan Jett's "I Love Rock & Roll" is awful because it sticks too close to the original for her vocal style, and it's just awful anyway.
Puff Daddy's reworking of "Every Breath You Take", while meeting requirement #1 by default, actually still uses too much of the original. The juxtaposition that takes place is decidedly awkward.
GOOD:
Limp Bizkit had a huge hit with George Michael's "Faith" because they reworked it to fit their audience and because they have a totally different sound than George Michael. Not a fan, making a point.
Similarly, Alien Ant Farm's remake of Michael Jackson's "Smooth Criminal" was a hit (though not a good song in my opinion) because of their distinctive sound (compared to MJ anyway).
Pearl Jam's version of Frank Wilson's "Last Kiss" is good because PJ has a distinctive sound, especially when compared to the 50's original, and also because it redeems what is probably one of the lamest songs of all time.
Jeff Buckley's version of Leonard Cohen's "Hallelujah" is so vastly superior to the original it's shocking, mostly because he was so damn talented he could sing the phone book, but also because there's a great song hidden in the original.
Finally, if you've heard A Perfect Circle's "Diary of a Madman/Love Song" thingy, you know they took two completely different songs, one of which is from another universe then they are musically, and made a successful integration which in some ways is superior to both originals.
Without any further ado, here's my notes. An asterisk (*) means I would put the song on my CD version of this collection.
Doog - Headache
Basically just a recreation of the (superior) original.
*Disintegrated Einstein - Czar
Sounds pretty good, I like the accordian. Rather than TMBG, this actually makes me long for a Nerf Herder version.
Asterid - His Kingly Cave
Pulled me in until Elvis came along. Too bad because this was primed to beat the original.
Jim McLuckie - I Will Run After You
Again, too much like the original.
*Crab Flank and the Chocktails - So Bay Update
While a standard remake, the vocals really add something.
Toomey-Zembo - Oddballs
Superior to the original by a hair, but a straight remake of what I consider to be one of Frank's least interesting tunes. This is exactly the kind of song that should have been re-arranged or given an Elvis voice or something.
*zenEQ - Men In Black
Definitely the most original interpretation in this collection. Not generally my cup of tea. Also, either too long or too repetitive.
CAK - Brackish Boy
Not much to set it aside from the original or compel a repeat listen.
Jason Phelan - Dog Gone
Ditto.
*Nam June Robot - I Could Stay Here Forever
Vocals are too soft by half, but the punchy drums in the chorus make the song for me.
Parchment Farm - 1826
Basically just a straight retread with sound effects as an afterthought. I like the voice well enough but would prefer to hear an original instrumentation to go along with it (rather than what amounts to this guy singing with the catholics).
*Michael DiSanto - Pure Denizen of the Citizens Band
This one is probably just unique enough to slip by.
Derek Olson - White Noise Maker
Not a good enough performance, and really just a straight cover anyway.
Christopher Van Epps - Skeleton Man
Good idea since the original is a bit weak and the reggae fits the tune well enough. Maybe I just don't like reggae or something, but I can't stand that guitar sound.
Peter Radiator - Cold Heart of Stone
Fairly straight-ahead cover, not much to get excited about.
*The Ohms - The Marsist
I like the keyboard sound, reminds me of "Return of the Living Dead" (Brains! More brains!). Vocals are too quiet.
P F Atlas - End of Miles
Decent enough conceptually but the vocals are too quiet and the solo guitar steps on them from time to time.
Neil Citter - How You Went So Far
Not digging the drum sound or the little tag at the end. Also, the distorted guitar needs to be louder, it's just creating a mud puddle down there.
*Clootie - I'll Be Blue
I like the intro and a lot of parts of the song. I don't like how it's got little bits of the original sticking out in places. The most egregious example being the guitar break, which would fit into the orginal but not in your version at all. Still good overall though.
Zipper - Whispering Weeds
Well I was wondering who would bust out with some pixies theme or other and here it is (at the end of the song). Hate the original song, not buying into this fairly straightforward rendition. |
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Ebb Vicious
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1162 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2003 : 20:39:23
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| to give a little of what molin gave; his version of 'abstract plain' is one of the worst B-sides, IMHO. he seems to have dellusions of vocal grandeur, and the guitars are mushy and boring. the real drums are a nice change from most of the covers, but sloppy and don't work as well as they might. if i got really stoned it might sound good to me, though. |
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mereubu
= FB QuizMistress =
USA
2677 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2003 : 20:42:32
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quote:
Originally posted by molin
Parchment Farm - 1826
Basically just a straight retread with sound effects as an afterthought. I like the voice well enough but would prefer to hear an original instrumentation to go along with it (rather than what amounts to this guy singing with the catholics).
Or gal, as the case may be (and is!) Poor blackpurse. I know you're a woman, V'ron! You rock! |
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Chris Knight
= Cult of Ray =
USA
899 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2003 : 22:06:39
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by molin
quote:
CAK - Brackish Boy
Not much to set it aside from the original or compel a repeat listen.
Parchment Farm - 1826
Basically just a straight retread with sound effects as an afterthought. I like the voice well enough but would prefer to hear an original instrumentation to go along with it (rather than what amounts to this guy singing with the catholics).
Aww! Bunnies are so cute! Still, it's good to see some controversial reviews. |
Edited by - Chris Knight on 07/28/2003 22:09:25 |
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molin
- FB Fan -
USA
15 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2003 : 23:44:45
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Oh the controversy! Sorry if I came off like Simon Cowell. I appreciate the input on my track, Ebb. Now that you mention it the guitars are pretty mushy. If I can't get a better sound next time , I won't even submit the thing.
RE: "delusions of vocal grandeur", didn't you just demand that people "find that howl"? Heh, leaving myself open for witty remarks, I know.. |
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brank flack
- FB Fan -
USA
32 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2003 : 00:55:28
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i see......
i personally can't really stand it when people cover people's songs. i guess i just don't see the point, especially frank songs. i have never covered one and never will.
i don't understand why little black francis hates me so. all i did was give my opinion. i thought it would be fun. too many people are afraid to be honest because you have some kind of community formed here. honesty helps people work harder and get better at what they are doing. there is a lot of talent and potential in each of the people that turned a version in. i think it should be focused towards crafting their own songs though. just like when frank covers a song i usually am veyr turned off. i can't think of a very good cover he has done. i know he didn't write it and that usually helps put the ball in motion. they usually seem like basic straight forward songs he picks. four chords and what not.....
okay i better shut my mouth as some people don't like what i think here....
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brank flack
- FB Fan -
USA
32 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2003 : 00:57:00
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| actually i didn't mind 'hang on to your ego' but it was very straight-forward just using different instrument sounds. |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2003 : 07:56:05
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quote:
Originally posted by brank flack
i see......
i personally can't really stand it when people cover people's songs. i guess i just don't see the point, especially frank songs. i have never covered one and never will.
i don't understand why little black francis hates me so. all i did was give my opinion. i thought it would be fun. too many people are afraid to be honest because you have some kind of community formed here. honesty helps people work harder and get better at what they are doing. there is a lot of talent and potential in each of the people that turned a version in. i think it should be focused towards crafting their own songs though. just like when frank covers a song i usually am veyr turned off. i can't think of a very good cover he has done. i know he didn't write it and that usually helps put the ball in motion. they usually seem like basic straight forward songs he picks. four chords and what not.....
okay i better shut my mouth as some people don't like what i think here....
Well, I don't agree, but you're welcome to say/think whatever you want here or anywhere. I can't think of a cover that Frank has done that hasn't come out sounding about a million times better. All the way back from Evil Hearted You, Black Rider, etc. The only one I didn't care for so much was Honeypie. Many of the artists who submitted covers have their own music as well, but this is sort of a fun break from that. Interpretation is as valid a form of expression as creation, and arguments could be made in either case as to which requires more creativity to do properly. On first thought, it might be obvious that it is the act of creation, but to really do something different with a cover, especially one that you love, is difficult because you have to force yourself away from just rehashing what is already there, which is not easy. I'm not saying we did a great job of it, but others on and off the album certainly have, and for me at least, Frank is the master of taking a song which I believe has no redeeming value and finding the great things in it and accentuating them.
Anyway, I say keep the reviews coming, whether glowingly positive or disturbingly negative (or somewhere in between). |
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Ebb Vicious
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1162 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2003 : 08:13:04
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quote:
Originally posted by molin
RE: "delusions of vocal grandeur", didn't you just demand that people "find that howl"? Heh, leaving myself open for witty remarks, I know..
yeah i did, and yeah, keep up the search. |
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blackpurse
= Cult of Ray =
USA
299 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2003 : 09:39:51
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quote:
Originally posted by mereubu
quote:
Originally posted by molin
Parchment Farm - 1826
Basically just a straight retread with sound effects as an afterthought. I like the voice well enough but would prefer to hear an original instrumentation to go along with it (rather than what amounts to this guy singing with the catholics).
Or gal, as the case may be (and is!) Poor blackpurse. I know you're a woman, V'ron! You rock!
Yeah, you would think that with the bluesmama lullaby humming in the beginning it would be clear that while I have some testosterone somewhere, alas, no Y chromosomes....
Ah, but steaknsabre have finally got our download and hopefully will be posting our comments. So far, in general, we have many good things to say about our co-conspirators in crime...
"Sacred cows make the best burgers!"
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Edited by - blackpurse on 07/29/2003 09:53:40 |
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El Barto
= Song DB Master =
USA
4020 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2003 : 12:57:59
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Honeypie...are you FUCKING CRAZY? You're trying to say the Beatles WHP is better than the Pixies? HAVE YOU LISTENED TO THE BBC VERSION LATELY!?!?!?!?!?
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FRANK BLACK SATAN WORKSHIP BLACK MASS |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2003 : 13:03:13
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| Yes, Mr. "I hate 80% of Frank's catalog", that's what I'm saying. :) No, I haven't listened to the BBC version lately, but I don't think it would change my mind. Yeah, Frank screams great, but something is lost in the cover. Of course, we've been over your hatred of The Beatles before, so I'm not surprised you don't like it. It's certainly not my favourite of theirs either. But I've got a NOT INSANE stamp on my hand, so I can definitely say I'm not crazy at least. |
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Steak n Sabre
* Dog in the Sand *
Uzbekistan
1013 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2003 : 14:10:56
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Yep, after a few aborted attempts, I now have a worthy copy burned off in CD format. The quick overall glance shows very solid production on everybodys tracks, and a fine job by Dean and Co. giving the final piece a professional feel. I'll be giving it a few more spins under a wide array of circumstances and influences before I'm ready to post reviews of the final and the B's.
"You can hypnotize me later..." |
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molin
- FB Fan -
USA
15 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2003 : 14:48:17
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| I'm with El Barto, the Beatles original "Wild Honey Pie", while an interesting diversion in the context of the white album, is almost guaranteed to be inferior to any and all cover versions. I mean, come on, it was done in one day by Paul when he was bored... |
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miguel
- FB Fan -
USA
213 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2003 : 15:28:47
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I have to say that I don't like the first version he did of hold on to your ego(I think with the pixies), the second is great. I can't stand the beach boys version.
Was boom chicka boom a cover? If so I kinda think that's a lame cover. boom chicka rocka chika rockaa chicka boom.
www.namjunerobot.com |
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Chris Knight
= Cult of Ray =
USA
899 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2003 : 15:41:24
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| I happen to love the Beach Boys version. I can't stand "I Know There's An Answer", though. |
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speedy_m
= Frankofile =
Canada
3581 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2003 : 15:46:36
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| The Beach Boys version was used in a Gap ad feat. Dennis Hopper and Christina Ricci. I'm not sure if it's the I know there's an answer verion, or ego, as they don't get to the lyrics within the commercial. |
Edited by - speedy_m on 07/29/2003 15:47:23 |
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speedy_m
= Frankofile =
Canada
3581 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2003 : 15:48:08
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| PS I LOVE Hang On To Your Ego as done on the Orange album. LOVE IT. |
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noexx
= Cult of Ray =
361 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2003 : 16:30:28
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pet sounds just came out in 5.1 dvd audio.
ryan |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2003 : 17:02:52
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| Yeah, I actually have to listen to them both again before I can comment HONESTLY on which I prefer... but I had to disagree with Jim as revenge for calling me a movie snob. :) |
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Atheist4Catholics
= Cult of Ray =
USA
925 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2003 : 17:51:06
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Pet Sounds 5.1?
God, talk about reaching into the toilet and feasting on vomit! Do something else goddammit! Leave it alone. Someone should put Brian Wilson and George Lucas on a desert island and keep them there so they can't ruin the few great things they've done. I don't think they should even have released it as a stereo mix. What's next, release data CD's with all the intruments separated so people can mix the songs at home? Bah!
BTW - Saying that cover versions are useless and that the bands involved could be using their energy and talent to produce originals instead is stupid. There are about 1,000 members on the forum from all over the globe that would not have taken the time to check these bands out had they not taken part in the tribute. I've been slowly listening to originals from each of these bands since it's release. We all owe a lot to Frank as an inspiration and motivator of our own music and we want to pay homage by taking a shot at some of his songs. Who cares if it's better or worse than the original? I don't think any of them are better, but that's because Frank does a great job putting out tracks that are arranged and performed to best suit the songs. There have been so many great covers in the past "All Along the Watchtower", "Easy". ""The Man Who Sold the World", "Head On" to name a few.
I think both versions of "Wild Honey Pie" suck because the song sucks ass. They're both interesting for about 30 seconds. "Hang On to Your Ego" is awesome if only because it made me want to check out Pet Sounds, but I also think it's a great New Wave rendition.
www.mp3.com/clootie |
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Kingmob999
- FB Fan -
57 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2003 : 19:19:40
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| Wow, Im really suprised that molin did such a harsh review on the cd. He should really use some of that energy towards his own music. really. |
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El Barto
= Song DB Master =
USA
4020 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2003 : 19:59:37
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I don't hate 80% of FB's catalog, nor do I hate The Beatles. I don't like the White Album as much as most people do, and certainly don't think it's one of their best. "Hang On To Your Ego" is most definitely better than the butchered "I Know There's An Answer" (another reason why Mike Love is an asshole). I think The Pixies version of "Hang On" (even tho it's just FB + drum machine) is superior to his FB version (cause it fucking rocks). Pet Sounds 5.1? God damnit.
Pet Sounds is the best album ever recorded.
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FRANK BLACK SATAN WORKSHIP BLACK MASS |
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MMD
- FB Fan -
United Kingdom
233 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2003 : 20:02:02
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quote:
Originally posted by noexx
pet sounds just came out in 5.1 dvd audio.
ryan
Haha I bought it on CD the other day and it was in mono! At least it was cheap anyway. |
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NimrodsSon
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1938 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2003 : 20:05:24
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| I don't really care all that much for the Beach Boys version. I mean, it's a great song but their version is kind-of annoying. Frank's is more smooth if you know what I mean. The Hang On To Your Ego lyrics are much better. I don't know which FB version I like better. They're both really different. |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2003 : 20:34:04
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quote:
Originally posted by El Barto
I don't hate 80% of FB's catalog, nor do I hate The Beatles. I don't like the White Album as much as most people do, and certainly don't think it's one of their best. "Hang On To Your Ego" is most definitely better than the butchered "I Know There's An Answer" (another reason why Mike Love is an asshole). I think The Pixies version of "Hang On" (even tho it's just FB + drum machine) is superior to his FB version (cause it fucking rocks). Pet Sounds 5.1? God damnit.
Pet Sounds is the best album ever recorded.
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FRANK BLACK SATAN WORKSHIP BLACK MASS
I thought somewhere you said you didn't like the Beatles, but the rest was just a jab for the movie snob thing. All cool. |
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sarah spinart
- FB Fan -
77 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2003 : 21:05:44
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you know, until i put this in the cd player, i hadn't really thought about how extraordinarily difficult it would be to cover a frank black and/or pixies song. i belt out lyrics with the best of 'em (i'm currently mildly obsessed w/"coastline"), but when it comes to actually doing so, there's a distinct line to be crossed: do you go ahead and do the song as though it's *your* song, or do you do the song like you're paying direct tribute to FB?
with "you ain't me", there seems to be an interesting mix of the two. i'll say right off - and this is not a negative remark re: any of the songs, mind you - that the coolest thing about this is that so much time was taken to do art, etc. for it and make it look great. i am a huge fan of robots. i like robots even more than i like pirates, and i really like pirates.
anyway, i just wanted to say that i'm really impressed with the results of this. in some cases, if i hadn't heard the original, i'd really dig the cover (examples: "headache", "i will run after you", "cold heart of stone"), but i can't get the original out of my head enough to truly appreciate them as they oughta be. (and the vocals on "cold heart of stone" are so eerily FB!!!) there are others that stand out to me more because they don't as easily evoke the original - disintegrated einstein is the *perfect* band name to describe their cover of "czar", if that makes any sense. "men in black" is similarly rockin' bizarre.
i'm pretty sure they're just fun synthesizer/whathaveyou noises (someone please enlighten me if i'm wrong/dumb, it happens a lot!) in "i could stay here forever", but there are a few points at which it sounds a bit like the singing saw. this led me to wonder what a really great saw player could do with some of the guitar solos on FB stuff, and how cool it could sound if they did it just right. which led me to wonder similar things about cellos - like, how great could a rasputina cover of "here comes your man" be?
"dog gone" is great!
if he's who i think he is, mike disanto's cover sounds just like his emails do. that totally rules.
and "skeleton man" begs the question: when do we get to hear the frank black reggae tribute album? it's only a matter of time.
i don't have the time/patience with myself to give a good commentary on every track, like some have done, but don't take that as anything against the songs i didn't mention: i don't think there's a bad track on here. it's pretty obvious that everybody put a lot of effort into this, and i think that's a pretty flattering tribute in itself. the whole thing made me realize just how great each song is on its own as well as being a part of an album. and i really liked that a lot of people did newer stuff, too.
and i'm sure (well, i'd hope, anyway) someone's already brought this up - i haven't read through anyone else's reviews so as not to influence my own thoughts! - but what the hell is up with the lack of woman on this thing!?!?! the crab flank and the chocktails song proves that a female FB cover can be superb! |
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sarah spinart
- FB Fan -
77 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2003 : 21:06:40
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| oh, and a big thanks to dean for sending it to me in the first place! |
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the swimmer
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1602 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2003 : 21:37:40
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quote:
Originally posted by sarah spinart
dog gone is great
Thank you very much Sarah. That means a lot to me. |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2003 : 22:03:20
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Anytime, Sarah. And, interestingly enough, the only two songs done with female leads made it on the album. Affirmative action? Not needed, they both were awesome (the other was 1826, just to preempt anyone else accidentally thinking somehow that Blackpurse is a man). Why were there not more? I don't know, but hopefully it will encourage others out there to get on board.
And your love of pirates leads me to wonder if you've encountered Monkey Island(tm) in any of your travels. |
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molin
- FB Fan -
USA
15 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2003 : 02:14:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Kingmob999
Wow, Im really suprised that molin did such a harsh review on the cd. He should really use some of that energy towards his own music. really.
Sorry to seem so "harsh". I was just dismayed there were so many close duplications of Frank's efforts. I mean, we all know Frank doesn't make an exact replica of a song he covers (though he does specifically mimic other artists' styles from time to time in his originals). That's what "cover bands" do at their gigs, and it's about all they're good for. I figured we'd be better than that around here.
Anyway, I was just trying to do my part in the community here and provide an honest review. Maybe there's no room for that sort of thing. |
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