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Robert Onion
- FB Fan -
USA
61 Posts |
 Posted - 10/11/2002 : 17:57:13
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What is your opinions on this album?
I think the majority here would say it's their least fave 'Frank Black' album. Also most will say it's very underrated.
I find Frank's lyrics on this not very...let's just say it doesn't seem like Frank put alot of thought into them than his previous 2 works. I think the artwork kind of reflects it.
For me there is a few classic songs but the rest is mostly forgettable tunes. Nevertheless i still think it's a good album.
-Robert- |
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Thomas
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1615 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2002 : 19:29:43
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I got Cult the month it was released. The problem I had was Teenager was so great that I couldn't stop listening to it. It took 2 years of waiting for a new cd, Catholics 1st, before I picked up Cult of Ray again. I liked Ray better on the second listen.
"It's the Nexus of the Crisis"
BÖCswu |
Edited by - Thomas on 10/11/2002 19:35:43 |
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Omer
= Cult of Ray =
275 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2002 : 19:47:43
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actually, Ray was the first FB I listened to, except 'Men of Steel'. As such, I think it is a great introduction to Frank's work.
It begins with one of the most experimental pieces he's ever done THE MARSIST, which I consider avant guard in the Velvet Underground tradition. MEN IN BLACK is one of Fran's best super rock/pop songs, unbelievably catchy. I admit that I don't care much for PUNK ROCK CITY, but it has a nice beat, and YOU AIN'T ME covers for it perfectly - the great guitar riff (only 3 notes!), and only FB could ever rhyme congratulatory with masturbatory.
Jesus was Right is also cool, although not a very 'important' song. I DON'T WANNA HURT YOU is just brilliant - a 'classic' song, with great, great lyrics (I wish you could be what's her name - and I could be King Kong). the instrumentals are both nice. KICKED IN THE TACHO is great with a strong punk beat and cool lyrics. The Creature Crawling I could do without, but DANCE WAR is great Punk. the title track remains one of my all time fav FB songs, a furay into heavy metal (well, kind of), and a song about Ray Bardubary - what more could u ask for? FInally, The last stand of... is a really great, sad song. |
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Little Black Francis
> Teenager of the Year <
3648 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2002 : 19:50:10
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the Cult of Ray was the first thing I ever heard by FB right around the time it was released. I was listening to Surfa Rosa a lot at the time but I really knew nothing about the man. My roommate brings home a brand new tape fo Cult of Ray and I was friggin hooked. I was like, this guy is still playing? Years later I am one of his biggest fans. So, I love the COR, I love playing all the songs on it, and... well that's it. Love it. Couple songs on it are not the best, but I listened to the shit of out of it, so I like it.
"Snooch to the Nooch" |
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Itchload
= Cult of Ray =
USA
891 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2002 : 19:55:18
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| Simiiar case to Mr. Black Francis. Cult of Ray was right when i got into Frank/Pixies. I didn't have the internet then...and had no way of knowing about "underground" music, because it was junior high and no one had a clue. I bought a music program for my computer, and had just gotten into the Pixies. I looked up their biography a few weeks later and my draw dropped as a I read about how Black Francis inverted his name to Frank Black and recorded some solo albums. I went to the store the next day and bought Teenager and Cult. Teenager seemed pleasant, but (as i was still pretty young) it wasn't "rockin" enough for me. I listened to Cult and immediately loved it, especially Frank's voice. My opinions have changed since then (mostly about Teenager), but Cult will always be the album that "sold" me on solo Frank. |
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mdisanto
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1140 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2002 : 21:24:12
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yah i like cult a lot. and i do like punk rock city eventhough some seem not to. the actual song Cult of Ray is probably my favorite on there, its so cool, "and i can't eat dirt cause it tastes so awful" ... and you said he didnt put thought into his lyrics?
-miked |
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El Barto
= Song DB Master =
USA
4020 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2002 : 21:57:47
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| I love Cult of Ray. It was my favorite for a very long time...now I'm confused as to what my favorite is. But in all honesty, I think my least favorite would have to be FB&TC, or...*DUN DUN DUNNNN* Teenager of the Year. |
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Stuart
- The Clopser -
China
2291 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2002 : 01:58:18
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Ive always been a fan of Cult of Ray... in fact this was the album which got me into Frank Black. I was already a fan of the Pixies and had all of their recordings when I saw COR on sale for 2 quid!!! I bought it thinking that even if FB's solo stuff was shit then I was not losing any money.
So, I started listening to the album and immediatley liked tracks such as The Marsist and obviously Men In Black, but I wasn't that impressed with many of the other songs. To be honest I only listened to it a couple of times and I didn't really give it much of a chance. Then I stumbled upon the Kitchen Tapes, which I thought were cracking. I'd say it was a mixture of COR and KT that got me listening to FB. From there I collected all of his work, and I'm of the opinion (although I say this with a little apprehension) that FB's solo work is better than the Pixies.
In terms of COR, this really took me about 3 years to fully get into, but I certainly wouldn't say it is his worst work (worst is a harsh term for a genius). I love pretty much all of the songs bar the instrumentals, which really don't do anything for me. My favourites are MIB, Marsist, Creature Crawling, You Ain't Me, KITT, Dance War, COR, and the Last Stand.
This is a cool album despite what anyone says, and in my opinion is on a par with the first Catholics album. |
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Robert Onion
- FB Fan -
USA
61 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2002 : 04:49:43
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It's Frank's last 'Frank Black' album. After he made this album i think he had gotten tired of writing about UFOs/space which dominated much of his early work. He moved on, which i think was a great move. He started to feel like he was becoming a parody of himself.
About the lyrics - i think it's his weakest effort. Songs like Jesus Was Right, Creature Crawling, The Marsist, Dance War don't have much lyric-wise. I mean devoting three songs about moshpits? Also one of the best songs on the album was originally a TOTY b-side.
And from what i read from Franks setlists from the past couple of years he plays very little off this album. I would love to know what he thinks of it. If anybody could paste a quote that would be great.
I still think it's a great record but i would not consider it one of his best. It gets over shadowed by his first two albums. That's my humble opinion.
Did Frank draw the cover?
-Robert- |
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Jayhawk
- FB Fan -
80 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2002 : 08:45:03
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Cult Of Ray was the first FB that I bought, and that was only about two years ago. I'm still relatively new in my "Frank Phase". I'll always have a soft spot for Cult Of Ray just because it was the first one I bought. It may be considered his "weakest", but it's still pretty damn good.
--Jayhawk |
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BLT
> Teenager of the Year <
South Sandwich Islands
4204 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2002 : 10:53:39
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| I was disappointed with Cult of Ray when it came out. Unfortunately, it eventually turned me off to FB for a few years. Many of the songs still sound forced-- especially "Punk Rock City", "Jesus Was Right", and "Dance War" (which I still consider his worst song). I thought the remake of "Men in Black" was a big improvement over the b-side version, and a few tracks still hold up very well, especially "The Cult of Ray". |
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Ten Percenter
- FB Enquirer -
United Kingdom
1733 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2002 : 13:15:38
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| Cult of Ray is my least favourite as well - and I agree about Dance War! I remember reading someone say that it reminded them of Thin Lizzy. But I really like some tracks: Men in Black, Creature Crawling, I don't want to hurt you and the Last Stand of Shazeb Andleeb (didn't like this track on the first listen but it is the one always play from this album |
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2002 : 13:23:42
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I really love CoR, it's still my fav... I pretty much agree with all Omer said. =)
- Dave |
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El Barto
= Song DB Master =
USA
4020 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2002 : 14:23:18
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| Actually, Cult of Ray was his first Catholics album, it's just credited as Frank Black. Check who plays on it :) |
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mdisanto
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1140 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2002 : 21:16:37
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what the hell, dance war is so cool, i mean its not complex at all really compared to many of his songs, but its so great
-miked |
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frankblackphx
= Cult of Ray =
USA
287 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2002 : 09:08:53
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| I totally agree with ten percenter, Men in Black, Creature Crawling, Last Stand, I don't want to hurt you and of course The Marsist are the best tracks. I do consider this my least liked Frank album but it was the follow up to Teenager Of The Year which in my opinion is the best album of all time. So there was obviously going to be a small let down. The one thing I do love about COR is Lyle's guitar playing. I think that it is definitely the best Frank album for guitar solo's. |
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Bartholomew
= Cult of Ray =
USA
344 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2002 : 14:43:31
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| Cult of Ray is as bad as Frank Black gets...which really isnÕt so bad at all when you compare it with most other artistÕs works. Just poor for Frank. Kicked in the Taco and Men in Black are definite keepers. On the Cult of Ray tour he only played 3 or 4 songs off the album. Almost all the material was from Teenager of the Year. Since I missed the TOTY tour I was over-joyed! Needless to say, I donÕt think even Frank liked this one much. My theory from reading all the interviews back then, was that he was pressing to make it in the mainstream--seemed bitter over KimÕs success in Breeders (at the time, and Christ who could blame him, what with the brilliance of Teenager being overlooked) and you can hear it in the songs (You ainÕt me?((wonder who that was about?)) I remember specifically hearing him complain about no one understanding his lyrics. That might explain the simplistic one's (for Frank, that is) on Cult... |
Edited by - Bartholomew on 10/18/2002 06:12:46 |
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OliverK
- FB Fan -
43 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2002 : 15:21:33
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| I like it. It's really geeked-out. |
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Spartacus
- FB Fan -
Australia
84 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2002 : 17:21:46
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I love Kicked In The Taco and Cult Of Ray-but have to agree that some of the songs are ordinary: Dance War, You Ain't Me. Still a great album, just not up to his other stuff.
'I thought that I would stay just for a while' |
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Chris Knight
= Cult of Ray =
USA
899 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2002 : 22:56:12
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| Funny thing, Cult of Ray was my FAVORITE F.B. album for a short time, though I eventually relegated it to "least good album" status like practically everyone else. The classics on the album would have to be "Men In Black", "I Don't Want To Hurt You" (Black's most pop-perfect and totally underrated), "Mosh, Don't Pass The Guy", and "Cult Of Ray" (a seemingly odd pick, sorta like "Every Time I Go Around Here" from the debut). There are quite a few subpar numbers, but the only real embarrassment on the album would have to be "You Ain't Me". That's my story and I'm stuck to it. |
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Chris Knight
= Cult of Ray =
USA
899 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2002 : 22:57:36
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| Also, it's better than Oddballs! |
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Leah
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
314 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2002 : 00:57:59
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Okay, so despite making an UTTER ARSE of myself by quoting a line from the Marsist as being from Men In Black, something which I have cringed about for days...
I still rate CULT as my fave. I love the fact that its a tight albumn, its Frank doing what he does best. Without being derogatory over the rest of his output, lets just say that I love the fact its short & snappy.
There are some great lyrical moments in there, and I think that its just what those people who prefere Trompe Le Monde as their fave Pixies albumn have been waiting for.
And I loved the tour t-shirt and got to see him twice that year too...
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Edited by - Leah on 10/15/2002 04:48:38 |
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Ten Percenter
- FB Enquirer -
United Kingdom
1733 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2002 : 01:55:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Bartholomew
Cult of Ray is as bad as Frank Black gets...which really isnÕt so bad at all when you compare it with most other artistÕs works. Just poor for Frank. Kicked in the Taco and Men in Black are the only keepers. On the Cult of Ray tour and he only played 3 or 4 songs off the new one. Almost all the material was from Teenager of the Year--Thank God. What an incredible concert! Needless to say, I donÕt think even Frank liked this one. My theory from reading all the interviews back then, was that he was pressing to make it in the mainstream--seemed bitter over KimÕs success in Breeders (at the time) and you can hear it in the songs (You ainÕt me?((wonder who that was about?)) I remember specifically hearing him complain about no one understanding his lyrics. That might explain the simplistic oneÕs on Cult...
I saw him on the tour - probably later on, and he played every track from Cult of Ray apart from the Cult of Ray itself. There were even a few heckles: 'Play stuff from your first two albums', but Frank favoured the new material. Shazeb Andleeb was great live - Dance War less so. irt was still a great night - he played Ten Percenter and finished with Announcement |
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frijol
- FB Fan -
USA
32 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2002 : 11:13:00
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He was trying way to hard.
The album sucked when it came out....and it still does. Not a bad thing, since it can happen to any good or great artist. It's just part of the process. |
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AdrianDenning
- FB Fan -
United Kingdom
7 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2002 : 11:40:11
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| 'Cult Of Ray' put me off Frank for around four years. Seriously. I was such a big fan until then. With retrospect, 'Cult Of Ray' isn't as bad as I initially thought it to be, but it's still my least favourite album of his. |
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BillyRadcliffe
- FB Fan -
USA
17 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2002 : 15:52:32
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well, here is what Mr. Black himself had to say about Cult of Ray. This is from the bio to promote the album. It gives some insight into why the album turned out the way it did, for better or worse.
Los Angeles, 4:45 am. The Frank Black "Cult of Ray" Bio. And within the year, my reign as "Teenager" is over. I celebrate by asking to be let out of my recording contract which is also nearly over. By now the company (4AD) and I are old friends, and they actually say yes (thanks); somebody reads a rumor on the superhighway of misinformation and the weeklies report that I've been dropped (thanks). Oh well. This sure beats my last job. While my manager makes arrangements for a new patron, I record most of an album and pickle it for a distant date. I play some of the cukes for a curious A&R man from London, who later tells my manager, "Frank doesn't know what he wants" I write a note to myself to tell future A&R types that
I want to sell lots and lots of records. Enter American Recordings. "Kid, making double albums is fine by us, but could you boil off some of the juice and give us something a bit more meaty?" So I bump things down to sixteen tracks, hire myself as sole producer, ask the Providence based country-stylie rhythm section 'les punks' to join in the meaty party; the red-headed wonder from Marin County remains as guitarriste. We cut it ("make hits" in magician's lingo) mostly live with a young engineer the employment agency sent over without so much as a tambourine overdub and boil, boil, boil it down to 13 numbers, clocking in a Trad. 40+ minutes. Carrot top has been playing us the newly re-mixed Who: Live at Leeds over and over, and through our Mancunian connections, find the man responsible so that he can mix our new record. It's called The Cult of Ray. "But, Frank, tell us about the songs and how it's different from back when you were in THE PIXIES?" Well, you got your geographic obsession,
conspiratorial paranoia, genetic alterations (hell, at this rate, given the current popularity of "X-Files," I might be buying a new yacht-type boat thing), pop culture and my frustration with it, lonely youth, a song I hope everyone can relate to, an instrumental you can kick my teeth to, universal violence, monsters, another instrumental (I try singing on these, but sometimes it just sounds better if I shut up), the pit, Mr. Angeleno himself, and last and perhaps most important of all, Shazeb Andleeb. "But, Frank, you didn't answer about the PIX..." Oh, yeah. "And how it's different." I guess on this album, more than ever, it's pure Frank. --Frankus Blackus Maximus
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Thomas
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1615 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2002 : 18:09:37
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quote:
Frankus Blackus Maximus
I wonder if that was the incarnation of him using Frankus Blackus?
"It's the Nexus of the Crisis"
BÖCswu |
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johndietzel
= Cult of Ray =
Burkina Faso (Upper Volta)
464 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2002 : 00:53:28
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I like Cult of Ray. Lately I have developed the curious belief that COR is his most Pixiesesque record. It's quirky, loud/quiet/loud and punkish. I mean the Marsist (one example) totally seems like it could fit in TLM or maybe even Bossa Nova [I do hate when he says "I didn't think so" in the start of the song].
By way of defending the Dance War type tracks, I don't think Frank was unaware what he was doing, which I think was paying homage to straight punk or at least Ramonesy sounds, much like he now does with the Stones. I am surprised with how many people are into the I Don't Wanna Hurt You song, which I can't stand--at least partly because it has a really terrible Meatloaflike title/chorus.
Also, reading the previous post, with the Frank quote, it makes me wonder about his whittling it down from a double-album to 16 and finally 13 tracks. So I guess had the original double-album worth of tracks made it, we would've heard like ten instrumentals? Or were the instrumentals that made it to COR really better than all the vocal-having others? Kinda weird.
Oh. I think of Jesus Was Right as the primative progenitor to So. Bay, which helps me like it. Plus I think Frank alludes to Jesus in better places and ways than most artists, this song being one example. And Dance War, it does have a kinda cheesy chorus, but I love the music in the verse.
RobertOnion: "I mean devoting three songs about moshpits?"
That made me laugh aloud. Hilarious
"Plain n' simp--the system's a pimp, but I refuse to be a ho."
Chuck D |
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JoshIAm
- FB Fan -
Australia
69 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2002 : 02:20:33
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As an Australian I'm not privvy to as much info and extras on Frank Black as you USAians (and others) - hey - I have to import the Black Letter Days CD for (whoever it is they pray to these days) sake!!!
But I must say that I've had no trouble at all embracing any FB albumn or song. Each one is different in the the evolution of a musician who started out kickass (or K-ass as I like to call it) and will die K-Ass. Comparisons are ample ground for a forum and make for a stimulting read but are ultimately and inescapably futile. |
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ramona
"FB Quote Mistress"
USA
3988 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2002 : 06:35:13
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| I have to love Cult of Ray because that was when I first got into Frank. Some friends were going to see him and brought me along and I was completely converted. I love 'The Marsist' and 'I Don't Want to Hurt You' - such really GREAT stand alone songs. |
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Itchload
= Cult of Ray =
USA
891 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2002 : 08:45:00
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| No, you'll note that the song that would have made it a double album are not more intrumentals. We're talking songs like "Announcement" and pretty much half the songs that made up Oddballs. "Village of the Sun" "Pray a Little Faster", "Baby That's Art". I think it would have made a great double album, sort of Teenager's punkier stripped down brother. |
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Izzy Stradlin
- FB Fan -
Netherlands
6 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2002 : 12:54:56
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Just listen to Lyle Workman guitar parts on The Cult of Ray....
Damm, what a guitarplayer. Rich Gilbert is just a clown compared to him!
When man was 5, devil is 6 Frank was gone to heaven |
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steveplymouthuk
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
639 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2002 : 17:38:19
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I love dance war. it always makes me wanna jump round the room.
__________________
I like distortion,
When I bar chord |
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FranknWeezer
= Cult of Ray =
USA
356 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2002 : 12:05:29
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Cult of Ray, the song, has got to be one of the greatest FB works ever. So upbeat, so many guitar changes, and phenomenal lyrics....
"In a dark place, in the deep sky, there's an old man, in a coffee can, and he's waiting, in the old rain...."
Damn that kicks.
FranknWeezer |
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Stuart
- The Clopser -
China
2291 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2002 : 17:41:25
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| I agree.... COR cannot be a crap album as there are alot of people who got into FB's music after listening to COR..... me being one of them. |
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stymie
= Cult of Ray =
385 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2002 : 21:12:56
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| Cult of ray was simply a turning point in style. It was a great album as they all were at some point. I think it is a work of art and all should give a experience. |
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