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glacial906
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1738 Posts |
 Posted - 09/23/2004 : 14:57:59
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I did like some elements of the Director's Cut but I kind of liked some of the elements of the narrative too from the original. Especially from the ending.
I did like how they made the end of the Director's Cut less hopeful and more ambiguous. I recall a scene from the original where Deckard and Rachel were flying over mountains in a helicopter...
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KimStanleyRobinson
* Dog in the Sand *
1972 Posts |
Posted - 09/23/2004 : 15:17:38
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Exactly!
I mean, forgive me for being less than dark here, but the juxtaposition of that hopeful ending with the rest of the extreme darkness of the movie...it just made it hit a little harder I thought.
Thats the ending you're talking about. They're in his car - the flying car - and the sun is shining in and the voiceover is happening.
I know the director's cut is supposed to give a little more of an implication that they're both replicants, but I liked how the first one implied that he was human and that he had finally found a hope or a love in a very dark world...that they would spend the rest of their time together exploring...ahh fuck it. I am cheese.
Sean Young is just damn hot, or she was then anyway.
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the head catatonic from the roller rink |
Edited by - KimStanleyRobinson on 09/23/2004 15:18:08 |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 09/23/2004 : 15:23:01
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He's a replicant? I completely never got that out of it...
I haven't seen the original, only the director's cut twice.
I agree with your assessment from the original, however, love in a dark time.
 "Join the Cult of Frank 2.0 / And you'll be enlightened (free for 1.x members)" |
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KimStanleyRobinson
* Dog in the Sand *
1972 Posts |
Posted - 09/23/2004 : 15:36:16
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Yeah - there's supposed to be some very subtle clues that Deckard is a replicant.
I have to confess that I did not formulate this hypothesis myself - picked it up on some board somewhere. I thought there might be merit to it but haven't had a chance to focus on the movie enough to test it.
Plus, I'm kinda stupid and probably wouldn't pick up the hints unless they were pointed out to me.
Again - could be bullshit I believed.
"A "director's cut" version was released in 1992 and it substituted some new scenes for the beginning of the film in which, in the original, Deckard provides a narration, and it also gives some hints that Deckard himself may be a replicant. Devotees of the film are divided on which is the better version."
http://www.thecityreview.com/bladerun.html
Ebb? You enough of a fan to say?
Care to illuminate?
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the head catatonic from the roller rink |
Edited by - KimStanleyRobinson on 09/23/2004 15:39:09 |
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glacial906
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1738 Posts |
Posted - 09/23/2004 : 16:26:04
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There was one point of evidence added into the director's cut that Deckard himself may be a Replicant. During one part he has a vision of a unicorn running through a forest. The image apparently doesn't mean anything to him, but toward the end of the movie, when he and Rachel are leaving from his apartment, he finds a little orgami unicorn left there by Gaff. (Edward James Olmos) This to me implied that the vision of the unicorn was a memory implant, much as had been given to Rachel in her recollection of the spiderweb outside her bedroom window when she was young.
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glacial906
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1738 Posts |
Posted - 09/23/2004 : 16:32:11
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| Damn this has got me wanting to watch the movie tonight... |
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KimStanleyRobinson
* Dog in the Sand *
1972 Posts |
Posted - 09/23/2004 : 16:43:28
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Yeah me too, but I have a gig.
Poignantly, I have the original and the first three Star Wars movies on order...well - If I win.
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the head catatonic from the roller rink |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 09/23/2004 : 16:47:34
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and then there's the fact that Ridley Scott (like an idiot) came out and blatantly said that "Deckard is a replicant"
so much for ambiguity
ist es möglich für ein quesadilla skrotum zu lecken? beim sprechen der quesadillas von LBF, ja. ja in der tatheheheheheheehehee! |
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KimStanleyRobinson
* Dog in the Sand *
1972 Posts |
Posted - 09/23/2004 : 16:57:55
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Dammit floop, we were geeking out, man!
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the head catatonic from the roller rink |
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Ebb Vicious
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1162 Posts |
Posted - 09/23/2004 : 19:27:28
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yeah deckard is a replicant. i try not to tell people that but it's blown already in this thread.
it's a lot more fun to realize it on your own. |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 09/23/2004 : 19:39:34
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i still vote for ambiguity.
even if stinking Ridley Scott says he's a replicant, that's his opinion.
that would be like Kubrick saying exactly what the ending of 2001 is all about. it would kind of ruin the fun of speculation.
ist es möglich für ein quesadilla skrotum zu lecken? beim sprechen der quesadillas von LBF, ja. ja in der tatheheheheheheehehee! |
Edited by - floop on 09/23/2004 21:06:52 |
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Ebb Vicious
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1162 Posts |
Posted - 09/23/2004 : 21:40:12
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there's no ambiguity in either of those, very bad examples.
some movies with some ambiguity:
+ Total Recall (was he really trying to infiltrate the rebellion or was he really caught turning good?)
+ American Beauty (who killed kevin spacey?)
+ Beaches (who wants to hear bette midler yowl like a dying cow... i mean sing?)
+ Star Wars : Episode I & II (wtf was george lucas thinking?) |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 09/23/2004 : 21:51:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Ebb Vicious
there's no ambiguity in either of those, very bad examples.
but it is ambiguous. there's nothing in the film that definitively states that Deckard is a replicant. the origami figures suggest it, but that is all. it depends on how you interpret it (despite what Ridley Scott says).
2001: so what does the ending mean?
other good ambiguous movies (other than the ones mentioned above):
JACOB'S LADDER - which life is is real life? or are they both his real life?
ROSEMARY'S BABY - is she insane, or are people really out to get her?
THE TENANT - same as ROSEMARY'S BABY
THE INNOCENTS - is the house haunted with those creepy kids, or is she delusional?
HENRY FOOL - is he running towards or away from the plane?
MULHOLLAND DRIVE - is she actually a fucked-up struggling actor living out some Hollywood delusion, or did some of that happen, or what the fuck?
MEMENTO - did he kill his wife or not?
ist es möglich für ein quesadilla skrotum zu lecken? beim sprechen der quesadillas von LBF, ja. ja in der tatheheheheheheehehee! |
Edited by - floop on 09/23/2004 22:07:43 |
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glacial906
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1738 Posts |
Posted - 09/23/2004 : 23:00:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Ebb Vicious
there's no ambiguity in either of those, very bad examples.
some movies with some ambiguity:
+ Total Recall (was he really trying to infiltrate the rebellion or was he really caught turning good?)
+ American Beauty (who killed kevin spacey?)
+ Beaches (who wants to hear bette midler yowl like a dying cow... i mean sing?)
+ Star Wars : Episode I & II (wtf was george lucas thinking?)
In American Beauty, I guess there is room for ambiguity, but I always thought it was strongly suggested that Col. Fitz killed Lester Burnham. I didn't think Caroline had the fortitude to actually kill her husband.
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glacial906
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1738 Posts |
Posted - 09/23/2004 : 23:07:34
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floop, in reference to your post about Blade Runner, I think that Ridley Scott ruined an important element of the film by emphasizing the fact that Deckard was supposed to be a replicant. I don't think that he had any intention of stressing this when the original movie came out in 1981. It's a pretty major element of the Director's Cut. I choose to ignore it, much like I choose to ignore "Batman Forever" and "Batman and Robin" as sequels to the Bat-franchise, and how many die-hard Star Wars fans choose to ignore completely "Phantom Menace" and "Attack of the Clones."
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Ebb Vicious
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1162 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2004 : 00:20:14
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ok first of all if you don't realize it's a fact that deckard is a replicant, then you haven't watched "blade runner" closely enough. there's more than just the unicorns. (psst, note the plural.)
if you don't know what the end of 2001 means then i'm not gonna tell you. like i said earlier, things like that are a lot more fun to figure out on your own.
the original ending for "american beauty" had the daughter and her boyfriend doing it, but he decided to not spell it out.
movies are fun. |
Edited by - Ebb Vicious on 09/24/2004 00:21:16 |
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n/a
deleted
4894 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2004 : 06:07:57
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Sigh. I watched blade runner the other night, I fucking LOVE this film. I first saw it when I was a ickle girl and I wept! I wept because it was beautiful, I wept for JF. Sebastian, I wept for Roy (I adore Rutger Hauer) didn't weep for Deckard and his boring pouty replicant girlfriend though heh heh. As far as Directors cut vs Original I'm a directors cut kind of girl, I like the bleakness of it. I got my favourite film quote of all time from blade runner home again, home again jiggedy jig
Total Recall is a bloody good example of film ambiguity, I change my mind every time I watch it. I think if Quaid/Hauser did switch sides it was satisfy the hollywood-cheese aspect of films, bastard comes good all for the love of his rebel woman type of thing, I don't think however basic human nature changes sufficiently for a total about turn from his alleged former incarnation. hmmmm. Plus that playback to himself video would be easy enough to fake in a civilisation where they can make arnie look like a big funny lady. I used to have such a lot of fun as a kid re-enacting one scene for my brothers with a red ping-pong ball stuck up my nose and one of those pronged pickled onion extractors, used to totally sick them out!
I was a weird kid
the room smelled like cupids gym
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Carl
- A 'Fifth' Catholic -
Ireland
11546 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2004 : 08:53:31
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| Three cheers for Rutgar Hauer("Like tears in the rain,"etc.)! The last movie I saw him in was 'Confessions Of A Dangerous Mind". The long-mooted ultimate-edition DVD OF 'Blade Runner' apparently is'nt going to be so spectacular after all, R.Scott was tinkering with it but I think it's only gona come out in some half-assed 'special' edition. Ah, well. |
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n/a
deleted
4894 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2004 : 09:10:14
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hurrah hurrah and hurrah
Blind Fury fucking hilarious, ditto Buffy the vampire slayer
the room smelled like cupids gym
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2004 : 09:16:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Ebb Vicious
if you don't know what the end of 2001 means then i'm not gonna tell you. like i said earlier, things like that are a lot more fun to figure out on your own.
the point remains: the ending is ambiguous/open-ended/what have you.
ist es möglich für ein quesadilla skrotum zu lecken? beim sprechen der quesadillas von LBF, ja. ja in der tatheheheheheheehehee! |
Edited by - floop on 09/24/2004 09:16:49 |
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The Holiday Son
= Quote Accumulator =
France
2010 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2004 : 09:55:13
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quote:
Originally posted by floop
MULHOLLAND DRIVE - is she actually a fucked-up struggling actor living out some Hollywood delusion, or did some of that happen, or what the fuck?
First part is a dream that happens after the last half hour of the film (which is real).
quote:
MEMENTO - did he kill his wife or not?
Yes, he did. |
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Ebb Vicious
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1162 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2004 : 10:02:17
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quote:
Originally posted by floop
the point remains: the ending is ambiguous/open-ended/what have you.
well it's ambiguous to you because you haven't figured it out.
but if you were dumb enough, every movie would be ambiguous. |
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Carl
- A 'Fifth' Catholic -
Ireland
11546 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2004 : 10:16:53
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Some movies/books/song lyrics, etc. are open to interpretation....by the way, DVD Review's site shows how access a 5 minute blooper-reel on the SW boxset:
www.dvdreview.com/html/hidden_features.shtml |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2004 : 10:37:34
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quote:
Originally posted by The Holiday Son
quote:
Originally posted by floop
MULHOLLAND DRIVE - is she actually a fucked-up struggling actor living out some Hollywood delusion, or did some of that happen, or what the fuck?
First part is a dream that happens after the last half hour of the film (which is real).
quote:
MEMENTO - did he kill his wife or not?
Yes, he did.
i don't think either of those are that clear cut
ist es möglich für ein quesadilla skrotum zu lecken? beim sprechen der quesadillas von LBF, ja. ja in der tatheheheheheheehehee! |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2004 : 10:38:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Ebb Vicious
quote:
Originally posted by floop
the point remains: the ending is ambiguous/open-ended/what have you.
well it's ambiguous to you because you haven't figured it out.
but if you were dumb enough, every movie would be ambiguous.
it's ambiguous because there are multiple multiple interpretations of it.
you may have yours, but other people have differing interpretations as well. i have my interpretation of the ending.. but i'm open-minded enough to understand that that's my interpretation. and that other interpretations are just as valid, since that's the nature of the work. it's not straightforward.
i'm glad you've figured it out for yourself though.
ist es möglich für ein quesadilla skrotum zu lecken? beim sprechen der quesadillas von LBF, ja. ja in der tatheheheheheheehehee! |
Edited by - floop on 09/24/2004 10:40:16 |
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ProverbialCereal
- FB TabMaster -
USA
2953 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2004 : 11:08:23
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I was going to hold off on buying the star wars DVD until a few months, but thanks to this topic and reading the review on that website I have to buy it tonight. Agh.
Join the Cult of Stromboli / They're good |
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Ebb Vicious
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1162 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2004 : 12:20:43
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like i said some movies are obviously ambiguous. 2001 is not.
just because a bunch of monkeys can't figure out the right answer to a calculus problem doesn't mean there isn't one.
edit: also for clarification, 2001 isn't a calculus problem. it's actually pretty obvious, imho. |
Edited by - Ebb Vicious on 09/24/2004 12:22:59 |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2004 : 12:26:01
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you still haven't told me what your interpretation of the ending is, smart guy
ist es möglich für ein quesadilla skrotum zu lecken? beim sprechen der quesadillas von LBF, ja. ja in der tatheheheheheheehehee! |
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soundofataris
= Cult of Ray =
USA
715 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2004 : 15:33:35
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read the novel. Its very clear and boring. I feel that the film is better, cause you can come up with your own interpretation of how/why Bowman(was that the character's name?) becomes a cosmic entity.
Its full of stars. |
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glacial906
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1738 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2004 : 20:21:27
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My God.
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VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
Posted - 09/25/2004 : 09:46:11
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quote:
I got my favourite film quote of all time from blade runner home again, home again jiggedy jig
Too bad nobody would actually KNOW it was a Blade Runner reference unless you told them.
Or maybe they would. I've never actually seen Blade Runner. It isn't like the screenwriters made up that line, though.
As for the original subject of the thread, I have no intention of getting the Star Wars DVDs, but yeah, I think the alterations were a pretty dumb idea.
"Signature quotes are so lame." --Nathan |
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n/a
deleted
4894 Posts |
Posted - 09/25/2004 : 10:13:47
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NEVER SEEN BLADE RUNNER?
( )
the room smelled like cupids gym
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TheCroutonFuton
- Mr. Setlists -
USA
1728 Posts |
Posted - 09/25/2004 : 10:34:25
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Forget it. Didn't mean to offend you.
"Freedom is a state of mind and the condition and position of your ass. Free your mind and your ass will follow." - Funkadelic |
Edited by - TheCroutonFuton on 09/27/2004 19:47:41 |
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Ebb Vicious
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1162 Posts |
Posted - 09/26/2004 : 08:14:11
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it's interesting that you assume that i cannot possibly understand everything in 2001.
how do you know how many times i've seen it?
how can you guess at my ability to unravel kubrick's symbolism?
the fact is, 2001 is not as complex as it seems. once you figure out kubrick's visual language, it becomes much easier. |
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bumblebeeboy2
> Teenager of the Year <
United Kingdom
2638 Posts |
Posted - 09/26/2004 : 08:25:23
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2001 is a tricky one, and my favourite film of all time to boot... it's possible that the film can be understood/interpretted differently to how the actual space odyssey books go. if you read the books, all 4 of them, then it's pretty obvious what the whole thing is about, as clarke loves to explain everything he can... i don't know, i don't think it's too hard to interpret, you don't have to look too deep into. it's hard having read the books too, as they all kind of merge into 1 and you end up with clarke's story rather than the collaborative effort that was the film...
Go go the average man! What are you looking for average man? The ain't nothing average about me man! |
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Star Wars DVD alterations
