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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
 Posted - 08/24/2004 : 09:33:38
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Looks like Target just might acquire the Hudson's Bay Company.
The Hudson's Bay Company is pretty much like the history of Canada in a nutshell. Its been around since 1670 for pete's sakes.
The only factor that makes it okay in my eyes is that it may take Wal-Mart down a notch or two. When will people realize that you can't give all the money to so few people. What will happen when there is no competition left? Is it really worth that buck or two that you saved?
Its just one more thing we can't keep here. We need some more people here so that we can run our own businesses effectively.
The things that will destroy us are: politics without principle; pleasure without conscience; wealth without work; knowledge without character; business without morality; science without humanity, and worship without sacrifice." |
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BLT
> Teenager of the Year <
South Sandwich Islands
4204 Posts |
Posted - 08/24/2004 : 09:45:22
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| People need to think past their wallets when they decide where to spend their money, but that's not easy in an age where so many live from one paycheck to the next. |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 08/24/2004 : 09:57:11
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Sad news indeed. This disease of megalithic companies will come back to haunt us. Seems ike anyone with a little foresight is doomed with the Cassandra Complex (i.e. Marshall McLuhan).
We never shop at WalMart anymore. There was a time when that was the only place I could shop though - like when I went to college in a small town and that was the only place to buy most anything. The dollar general store was filled with Mexican/Chinese-produced oddities that fell apart or had humorously decorated packaging, but very rarely had much use.
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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 08/24/2004 : 09:58:23
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True enough, but knowing that that buck or two that I saved might be off the back of some other poor soul who worked their ass off in a sweatshop is enough for me to go somewhere else. We're all going to live one payCHEQUE to the next when we all work for Wal-Mart because they own everything because we all shopped there to save that buck or two instead of promoting healthy competition.
Its called purchasing power for a reason folks.
(Yeah, this topic gets me worked up)
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"The things that will destroy us are: politics without principle; pleasure without conscience; wealth without work; knowledge without character; business without morality; science without humanity, and worship without sacrifice." |
Edited by - Carolynanna on 08/24/2004 10:13:58 |
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BLT
> Teenager of the Year <
South Sandwich Islands
4204 Posts |
Posted - 08/24/2004 : 10:59:21
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| I'm not sure what disturbs me most about the Walmartification of America. Is it the smaller businesses being eradicated by the conglomerates? Could it be the jobs driven overseas by the constant demand for cheaper labor? Or is it the sheer mediocrity of it all? |
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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 08/24/2004 : 11:30:58
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I wonder how exactly we're going to be able to have 70% Canadian content in our RRSPs when there's nothing Canadian left to invest in. Maybe I'll order me up some AirCanada for 7 cents a share...
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"The things that will destroy us are: politics without principle; pleasure without conscience; wealth without work; knowledge without character; business without morality; science without humanity, and worship without sacrifice." |
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pfeffa
= Cult of Ray =
Aruba
367 Posts |
Posted - 08/24/2004 : 11:31:47
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Why do discount stores always have a creepy smell? Is it all the plastic, tupperware, and polyester?  |
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frank_black_francis
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
895 Posts |
Posted - 08/24/2004 : 14:41:34
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| Hudson's Bay isnt exactly a State-Run company and I dont really get the point of considering a company that has a Native-Canadian exploitation and murdering history such an important part of heritage....oh the days of resource and native exploitation....teardrop. |
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KimStanleyRobinson
* Dog in the Sand *
1972 Posts |
Posted - 08/24/2004 : 14:45:32
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That smell is the smell of the dead rotting corpse of the free enterprise system, pfeffa.
Its either that or the pharmacy and its denizens.
...and the crowd goes MILD... |
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ObfuscateByWill
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1887 Posts |
Posted - 08/24/2004 : 17:45:51
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Haven't shopped Walmart for quite a while.
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I seek out and give my business to joints that use Union Labor.
Which is not friggin' easy!
*Shka-pow! You're Dead! |
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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2004 : 06:57:24
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quote:
Originally posted by frank_black_francis
Hudson's Bay isnt exactly a State-Run company and I dont really get the point of considering a company that has a Native-Canadian exploitation and murdering history such an important part of heritage....oh the days of resource and native exploitation....teardrop.
Well I guess it ain't a State-Run company,
and I never said it was a rosy history.
Point was, its just one more company we can't keep and it has a long history here. But if you like to give all your dollars to the yanks thats your perogative...
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"The things that will destroy us are: politics without principle; pleasure without conscience; wealth without work; knowledge without character; business without morality; science without humanity, and worship without sacrifice." |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2004 : 07:49:18
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I, too, would be sad to see yet another America take over yet another Canadian staple. Oh well, money is power I guess. Everything's on sale, all of it must go!
I like your sig, by the way, C... where's that from?
 "When 5000 posts you reach / Look as good you will not, hmmm?" |
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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2004 : 08:50:55
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Its Gandhi D.
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"The things that will destroy us are: politics without principle; pleasure without conscience; wealth without work; knowledge without character; business without morality; science without humanity, and worship without sacrifice." |
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Dallas
= Cult of Ray =
USA
725 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2004 : 08:55:29
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Ummmm, isn't Target French-owned?
Hate to break up the US bashing... |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
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Dallas
= Cult of Ray =
USA
725 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2004 : 09:09:23
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| Thanks, please proceed in the Yank bashing. |
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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2004 : 09:12:20
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Nope;
http://reason.com/links/links081704.shtml
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20040812.wxtarge0813/BNStory/Front/
More than US bashing its about a loss of all things Canadian in exchange for all things American. Not that I'm the most patriotic person ever, but its change (and not really for any good that I can see). You have to admit that it would be a tad stressful when you can see it coming and its too late.
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"The things that will destroy us are: politics without principle; pleasure without conscience; wealth without work; knowledge without character; business without morality; science without humanity, and worship without sacrifice." |
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Adam
= Cult of Ray =
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2004 : 09:19:16
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I don't know much about the Hudson Bay company, but they would be at fault in this instance also, or at least there owners or shareholders would be. Sure Target put an offer on the table, but that doesn't mean HB has to accept it. They did, I guess, which helps the walmartification of the US. Competition is good, but there is no need for a Walmart in every town. There is a Walmart in three of the four counties that border mine and people still wine that we need one. We do not need one and I hope we never get one.
Free the Heel! |
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Dallas
= Cult of Ray =
USA
725 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2004 : 09:21:30
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I look at businesses dispassionately. They have a life cycle and a purpose. The purpose is to make money for its investors.
I also don't romanticize the mom and pop shop. I lived in a small town that had a 1 grocer and 1 hardware store. They always underpaid their non-familial employees and had prices that had many people driving 20 miles for groceries to avoid them. The hardware store was worse. I had a brother and several friends who worked for that family business. The joke was that the only way to keep a job there was to never mention your pay. Its not always quaint. |
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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2004 : 09:33:53
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I'd agree with you Adam about faulting HBC but not for accepting a bid because like Dean said, everything is for sale. But rather, for not doing enough to change toward the current market climate. But then again, who can compete against Wal-Mart. HBC also has Zellers and Homeoutfitters.
Our second last Canadian department store was Eatons which folded in 1999. Before that we had Simpson-Sears (Simpson was the Canadian part of it) and then it became just Sears. Now, if this goes through, there will be none.
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"The things that will destroy us are: politics without principle; pleasure without conscience; wealth without work; knowledge without character; business without morality; science without humanity, and worship without sacrifice." |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2004 : 09:53:03
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Dallas:
As Apl said, it's about even the big fish being swallowed up by bigger fish until there are three or four multinational fish left in the pond. I should think someone so far on the right would appreciate that three or four multinationals stifles competition as much as big government.
As Carolyn said, it's also about the loss of another Canadian landmark to American money. This is hardly American bashing, it's more about losing everything that is Canadian to big money...
"When 5000 posts you reach / Look as good you will not, hmmm?" |
Edited by - Cult_Of_Frank on 08/25/2004 09:54:30 |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2004 : 09:58:16
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... also, you're right, HBC allowed themselves to be bought. I can't exactly fault them for it since, as you say, business is there to make money, but it's part of the problem. Just because someone offers you money, does that mean you must take it? Perhaps in business, the answer is yes. But I'd like to think there are people who aren't for sale, somewhere.
"When 5000 posts you reach / Look as good you will not, hmmm?" |
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Dallas
= Cult of Ray =
USA
725 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2004 : 10:04:46
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COF - Consolidation doesnt in and of itself stifle competition. If the big co's dont do a better job of bringing products to the market they will fail. If their corporate citizenship doesnt meet with community standards to the point of boycott or taking their business elsewhere they will fail.
The market is imminently better at deciding which stores survive and which dont then government regulations or even a handful of activists.
Also, don't overreact to my 'yank bashing' comment, I dont think that is what this thread was about. I was just reacting to the "yet another America take over yet another Canadian staple" and such and re-reading it looks like I was pissed or offended. Too much hyperbole from me on that one. |
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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2004 : 10:11:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Dallas
COF - Consolidation doesnt in and of itself stifle competition. If the big co's dont do a better job of bringing products to the market they will fail. If their corporate citizenship doesnt meet with community standards to the point of boycott or taking their business elsewhere they will fail.
Wal-Mart was the number one abuser of sweatshop labour last year.
Their corporate citizenship does not meet my standards yet they flourish. They do a better job of bringing goods to the market as they have huge economies of scale, but that also impedes competition.
I do admit though that it seems worse when it is a US company that does the taking over rather than another foreign corporation. This is because we are so inundated with US culture that there is resentment, though notice I am not completely faulting the US for this.
Next thing you know they'll be buying our maple syrup factories! ;)
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"The things that will destroy us are: politics without principle; pleasure without conscience; wealth without work; knowledge without character; business without morality; science without humanity, and worship without sacrifice." |
Edited by - Carolynanna on 08/25/2004 10:12:31 |
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Adam
= Cult of Ray =
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2004 : 10:12:18
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With all this consolidation in every industry, banking, walmarts and targets, and even the recreation industry, it will not be long before every town looks like the next one down the road. There will be no identity to anything. Take banking, BB&T was buying up everything left and right their region of east coast and mid atlantic. They are almost everywhere in this region. Even the ski industry is run by conglomerates(sp). Intrawest owned property all over NA and there resorts did not look alike, but had the same features. When they bought Snowshoe they dumped alot of money into it, which indeed made it better and the top desitination resort for its location, but it lost some of the feel it had before. There used to be two hotels and two restuarants on the top of the mountain, but now you can't stumble ten feet out of one bar before you hit another. I now prefer the local resorts in Canaan Valley that might not open as early, but if you just want to ski that is about all you can do there.
Free the Heel! |
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Dallas
= Cult of Ray =
USA
725 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2004 : 10:24:06
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Carolynanna - That would be wrong and I would join you in blocking the borders if it ever came to pass.
Adam - banking consolidation is a response to the world we live in. People travel more and want access to their bank accounts and funds wherever they are. Even in a single city, the Bank that has the most and most convenient locations generally wins. They are responding to customer desires. It also reduces the risk of the banks going under due to regional downturns in the economy or regional catastrophic events (hurricane, drought, etc.). Thats good for banks and people. |
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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2004 : 10:39:42
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I'm curious to see how well the 'virtual bank' fares.
The one that's part of our parent company can offer something like 2.8% on savings accounts because of the reduced expenses. They also have below prime leverage loans and mortgages because of that factor too. Strangely though, its not where I bank, hmmm....
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"The things that will destroy us are: politics without principle; pleasure without conscience; wealth without work; knowledge without character; business without morality; science without humanity, and worship without sacrifice." |
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Dallas
= Cult of Ray =
USA
725 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2004 : 10:45:27
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That would seem to go against your ethos Carolynanna. Their business plan succeeds on being able to provide services without employees. No tellers to pay or Bank managers. That is where the virtual comes in.
Also, in the states, 'real' banks are required to serve low and moderate income areas. If they dont they can be sanctioned and prohibited from entering any new markets until they have increased their low income presence. |
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Adam
= Cult of Ray =
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2004 : 11:01:50
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Dallas, sounds like you woek in the banking industry. I do as well. And I do agree that bank consolidation is good for some consumers who do travel etc. because their bank is where they are at all times. With that comes less competion and less comp. means less choices which in turn means higher bank fees and lower interest rates paid to depositors. That is bad for all consumers. A bank going under is never a good thing for the bank, its customers, or the community it serves, up neither is a buy out. You now have people who have been with local bank a for years, that knows the community and people, and now it is something else with a hq that could be states away. That is not a positive thing.
A new bank moving into an area is a positive thing because that creates choice and competition and that,I believe,is good for everyone.
As for e-banks, haven't 95% of them failed a few years back? Nice mention of the CRA. How long have you been in banking, Dallas?
Free the Heel! |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2004 : 11:04:41
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you guys are lucky to work in the baking industry. do you get free pastries?
ist es möglich für ein quesadilla skrotum zu lecken? beim sprechen der quesadillas von LBF, ja. ja in der tatheheheheheheehehee! |
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Dallas
= Cult of Ray =
USA
725 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2004 : 11:07:03
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Why do I feel like I have been 'outed'??
Impact on the community depends. In some communities a larger bank brings products/services that may not have been available before.
I'm not suggesting that all consolidation is good. Or good for everybody. Or that certain groups of people will be harmed by them. But, it has 2 sides and in the end the market (the consumers) will determine for itself what is the best way to go. Some markets embrace the big co's and others dont. |
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BLT
> Teenager of the Year <
South Sandwich Islands
4204 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2004 : 11:20:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Carolynanna
Next thing you know they'll be buying our maple syrup factories! ;)
I purchase only pure Vermont maple syrup. :oP |
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Adam
= Cult of Ray =
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2004 : 11:32:12
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Good point dallas, "the consumers decide which banks make it". The bank I work for is the largest in most of our market area" We just closed a branch in one of our markets because after being there 10yrs, we were only able to get 8% of the market share. The two local banks that had been there since the town was formed still had a 92% market share. So the consumers said "no way" to us. Plus I work for a MD hqed company and we just don't like the Marylanders where I live. No offense to anyone one from MD, I'm sure your all nice people.
Free the Heel! |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2004 : 11:34:38
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quote:
Originally posted by BLT
quote:
Originally posted by Carolynanna
Next thing you know they'll be buying our maple syrup factories! ;)
I purchase only pure Vermont maple syrup. :oP
pretty soon we'll own all of your dog sleds too. then what will you do? boycott using dog sleds? the entire economy will shut down.
ist es möglich für ein quesadilla skrotum zu lecken? beim sprechen der quesadillas von LBF, ja. ja in der tatheheheheheheehehee! |
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Cheeseman1000
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Iceland
8201 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2004 : 11:43:29
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The Canadian economy will have to exist entirely on ice hockey and lengths of hose.
Isn't that right?
Kind regards,
Dr. Simon
Specialist In Broken Hearts |
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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2004 : 11:44:07
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quote:
Originally posted by BLT
quote:
Originally posted by Carolynanna
Next thing you know they'll be buying our maple syrup factories! ;)
I purchase only pure Vermont maple syrup. :oP
Vermont??? Sacrilege!
"Canadian maple syrup is renowned for it's unique and rich flavors unlike anywhere else. Sold all over the world, it has become one of our biggest exports with good reason. The Canadian climate ensures that our maple syrup is abounding with taste and the richness of Canada due to the sweetness and quality of our sap."
For a list of recipes visit;
http://www.ontariomaplesyrup.com/book3.html
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"The things that will destroy us are: politics without principle; pleasure without conscience; wealth without work; knowledge without character; business without morality; science without humanity, and worship without sacrifice." |
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There goes another......
