| Author |
 Topic  |
|
glacial906
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1738 Posts |
 Posted - 06/24/2004 : 01:20:18
|
I have been thinking alot about religion lately. I don't know why. I just feel like it's the time in my life when I should quit straddling the fence and choose what exactly I believe.
Usually when I have a problem with deciding between one thing or another I like to get advice from both sides. The same can be said of this particular problem. But, what do you do if you want to believe in God, but the opposing evidence against God seems overwhelming, and you find yourself simply unable to put your faith in something so intangible? There is NO way for me to get a definitive answer on this one, and that is what is so scary. There have been times when I have wanted to believe in God, because it would seem very comforting to know that I could pray for guidance, or peace of mind or whatever. And I know plenty of people who do believe who tell me about difficult times in their lives, and after they pray either things get better, or God's plan for them is suddenly revealed. But then I think about all the inconsistencies with the Bible, and how totally illogical and anthropomorphic God actually is, and I find myself shying away from the whole idea.
Why is it that Christians villify atheism and science so much? If there is a Creator, why can't he have made the universe in the way that we now study science? (That is, why can't God have created evolution to advance species; made the Big Bang to create the cosmos, etc.)
Why would God deliberately allow inconsistencies in the Bible to confuse potential believers? Why would God have made the entire Earth 6000 something years ago, and then planted all the dinosaur and prehuman primate bones and then expect us to come up with all sorts of contingencies -- that fly in the face of rational hypotheses, mind you -- to explain where all these things came from? It just doesn't make sense to me.
One last thing: all of the answers that I've ever read in books or online, or gotten actual responses to for these questions have all been something like: "Well, it's not our place to question. Just believe, and all will be explained, if it is God's will." Well that just doesn't cut it anymore with me. Religion will attempt to satiate your desire for knowlege with the same tired hyperbole that it's used for millenia. Namely, just don't ask any questions. Or they will generalize all atheists and agnostics as denying the existence of God because "their hearts have hardened to the Lord," or "they have not truly given themselves to God." I don't consider myself a bad person for having doubts (and believe me, having been brought up Baptist it's an accomplishment having gotten this far...)
Yet, at the same time, I sometimes find myself worrying that if I were to die today I'd go to Hell.
Take me, break me, tell me a good one and maybe I'll cry
|
|
|
Little Black Francis
> Teenager of the Year <
3648 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2004 : 01:27:00
|
| I think I might be a satanist... but I've never had one |
 |
|
|
glacial906
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1738 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2004 : 01:30:27
|
What, you mean "had" as in the biblical sense? Me neither.
Take me, break me, tell me a good one and maybe I'll cry
|
Edited by - glacial906 on 06/24/2004 01:30:52 |
|
|
|
bedrock_barney
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
871 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2004 : 02:24:53
|
I think we had a godly debate on here about Christmas time - lots of excitable posting ensued.
I am firmly in the non believing camp. I just can't rationalise the existence of a God. We are all simply cognitive carbon based animals walking around on a large ball of rock circling a yellow star within a spiral galaxy. All it takes is one asteroid to meander a little too close and we'd all be gone. And it would have nothing to do with God, just astrophysics. The timescales are enormous and I find it impossible to comprehend the torturously slow process of evolution. But that's what I 'believe' based on what I have read in books and learned from television programmes.
I think I have posted before that religion has served as a safety blanket for humankind (and a method of controlling the populace by those in power). This is perfectly understandable when you consider how little knowledge existed before the 17th/18th centuries. People could not begin to understand the nature of the earth, why a moon circled close by and what all the little points of light in the sky at night were meant to be. Times were hard, life expectancy was short. People used God and the Church to help them through their tough lives.
However humankind has made huge scientific advances over the last 100 years or so. Huge overwhelming evidence points to an ancient earth thereby debunking the young earth creationist standpoint. I think the bible has elements of truth within it. For example there probably was a catastrophic flood at some point in the past and there may have been someone called Noah who gained notoriety for some reason. However I do not believe that a flood could have covered the earth in the way described in the bible (the science behind it simply doesn't work). The bible is a great storybook, an omnibus Aesops Fables if you like. Lots of tales all brought together in one big book. There may well have been a Jesus at some point but again I take issue with the son of God claim.
There is no heaven or hell - this is another example of the safety blanket and the need to control the population by fear in olden days.
The BBC conducted a poll a few months ago. I think about 60-65% of Brits believe in God but this rises to over 90% in the US. I suspect therefore it is much harder to not believe in God in the US than it is here. It's awfully hard to maintain a minority view. I just think of the stick (mainly good natured) that I get for being a vegetarian!! In a minority of about 7% with that one.
One final thing - I read somewhere that George Bush was sanctioning the placement of literature within the gift shop at The Grand Canyon which purports that the canyon was formed no more than 6,000 years ago during some kind of massive flooding episode. You could line up 1,000's of eminent scientists (and religious leaders) who would happily disagree with this extreme opinion. It's startling that outdated philosophies such as this still exist in the 21st Century.
 "I've rejoined the Cult of Ming / Star of favourite childhood movie of 1980" |
Edited by - bedrock_barney on 06/24/2004 02:27:27 |
|
|
|
Little Black Francis
> Teenager of the Year <
3648 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2004 : 02:29:41
|
I meant "had one" as "had a religion" that had bar codes associated with it... ehhahah
uh, how about the Cult of Frank [not talking about that guy who posts all the time, I think he's from Rvagina =)? I feel like I'm living in the new house of the pope. I've always been comfortable with the notion Frank Black is a preacher, derived from special materials in the universe and sent to this world skipping though time on some fucking comet so I can love him, that bloody stranger... Mr. Thompson to you LBF! Oh fuck, did I just use that punctuation markx
Um, Jainism seems kinda cool
I like aspects of all religions, but I've never had one
My little diddy ditty ? is this:
God was created by man to control the masses and regulate society when it was first born on this rock.
Other than that, it's all relative... unless I'm drunk and horny and bored... hahah never mind
if you read all that, I'm sorry, peace, I'm outttttaaaaaaaa heeereeeeeeeeeee
What's up with that Church of the Rockstar thing I know I could google it, just wondering if anyone around here has any idea what I am talking about.... (sanity check, shit is that mic on, fuck me)
Nature fucks Electronics. |
Edited by - Little Black Francis on 06/24/2004 02:34:46 |
|
|
|
TattooedJeebus
- FB Fan -
Canada
47 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2004 : 02:44:56
|
If you have to choose what to believe, it's not really a belief, now is it?
If you're getting cotton mouth, my mind is like an ocean... |
|
|
|
TheCroutonFuton
- Mr. Setlists -
USA
1728 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2004 : 02:50:58
|
quote:
Originally posted by TattooedJeebus
If you have to choose what to believe, it's not really a belief, now is it?
If you're getting cotton mouth, my mind is like an ocean...
Yes, I was going to say the same thing, Jeebus.
There is only good because there is evil. It's because the choice is always available to us. It's because we, as humans, have the ability to always choose between right and wrong. (Although sometimes it comes down to the lesser of two evils.)
"Freedom is a state of mind and the condition and position of your ass. Free your mind and your ass will follow." - Funkadelic |
|
|
|
Opaque
= Cult of Ray =
USA
251 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2004 : 03:53:49
|
Religion is scarey. Any time you collect up massive group of "like minded" people that are convinced that they exclusively are "right about everything" you can expect misery and suffering to follow.
"You've gotta listen for a weird, strange noise. Something out of the ordinary." - John Crichton |
|
|
|
Little Black Francis
> Teenager of the Year <
3648 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2004 : 04:08:29
|
OT
Ms. Opaque, you need to add Fb.net as a link to music on your favorite website or homepage link in your profile... come on now =)
Anyway, seriously.
Uh, nice site and nice work by the way
Post that link! |
|
|
|
fudd
= Cult of Ray =
664 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2004 : 05:13:39
|
quote:
Originally posted by bedrock_barney
The BBC conducted a poll a few months ago. I think about 60-65% of Brits believe in God but this rises to over 90% in the US. I suspect therefore it is much harder to not believe in God in the US than it is here. It's awfully hard to maintain a minority view.
It's the easiest thing in the world if you have a spine, a brain, and are willing to think about it a little. |
|
|
|
PsychicTwin
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1772 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2004 : 06:02:01
|
Religion = Opiate for the masses
Whoever said that was fucking right on.
I forfeit any kind of belief in a Christian "God" years ago. The great deal of physics, science, and evolutionary theory that I've learned in the past few years has all but extinguised this notion from my mind.
My dilemma is this-- I still feel like there must be a 'source' to it all. I'm an astronomy buff, so the 'big picture' is something I definitely take into account during my spiritual questioning. And the fact of the matter is...everything must have a source! There is something more to the picture! We might never ever know because we never have the means to. But, in the same way, the cells of our relatively vast body carry on their processes through functioning, sustaining themselves, propagating, and then dying.
As far as we know, our function in the vast and unfathomable scale of the universe is open to quite a bit of questioning. Even if the Big Bang theory is 100% correct, what caused this initially? Where does all the matter in the universe COME from? nothing is spawned for nothing, everything has a source. This is a pretty crude example, but what if we are essentially "cells" in a "body" of something that is so huge and so vast that we could not even hope to begin understanding it. And, considering the complexity of human life, imagining the nature of what we (any life in the universe, plus all intrinsic matter) might very well "compose" becomes astounding and overwhelming. And futile to even question. At least at this juncture...
You want to advance religion? Advance science! That way we don't have sycophants and power-hungry freaks poking with a stick in the dark. Or they'll still be around, but we can readily banish them to the shadows along with the Dark-Age mentality that they limit themselves to. But the rest of us will be asking the same questions, pushing the envelope with what we know of science and the physical world. Like rational human beings, we can assess the scientific evidence at hand and (at a snail's pace) reach some kind of greater truth about our true place in the existential realm, and whether there is actually one finite "source" for the cosmos. |
Edited by - PsychicTwin on 06/24/2004 06:03:11 |
|
|
|
frank_black_francis
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
895 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2004 : 06:25:37
|
As scary as organized religion is....scarier still is people who, define themselves spiritually by picking and and choosing elements of many different religious philosophy, and incorporate them in a bouliabaise of their own brand of religion (this often occurs in the Gay community).
Also weird are the many people who claim to be Buddhist, and follow the teachings of the Dalai Lama despite the fact that he suggests that you should not reject your original religion.
What I find weirder still is people who in a crisis of faith reject their religion without even discussing it with their priest, rabbi, cleric or minister....it seems to me that for something so important, you would exhaust all possible avenues... "I've tried nothing and I'm all out of ideas".
Inasmuch as people are 'lead' in organized religion, it is the same for atheism and agnosticm.
I dont think religion is scary, people are scary.
Bam Thwok, I crapped myself! |
|
|
|
ramona
"FB Quote Mistress"
USA
3988 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2004 : 06:45:25
|
I think there is huge comfort in believing there is a point to all of this, and that there is something BIGGER than us controlling what happens. I think that is the basis to religion in a lot of ways.
_____________________________________________________________________
I replace you easily, replace pathetically,
I flirt with any flighty thing that falls my way.
But how I needed you. When I needed you.
Lets not forget we are so strong... so bloody strong. |
|
|
|
fudd
= Cult of Ray =
664 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2004 : 07:15:46
|
quote:
Originally posted by frank_black_francis
Inasmuch as people are 'lead' in organized religion, it is the same for atheism and agnosticm.
?!?!?!
I was led to believe in a crock of shit, and saw through it. And I think this is the case with most of us. |
|
|
|
cvanepps
= Cult of Ray =
USA
442 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2004 : 08:21:34
|
I'm an atheist. Always have been, and for all the reasons Glacial and Barney have already said.
The argument I've always used is religion exists because people fear death. It's one of the really big unanswered questions of humankind. So they have some silly "be good and you'll go to heaven" or "be bad and you'll go to hell" nonsense. Phu-lease.
Look at the Greek Gods. They had a God to explain events that science could not yet explain.
"How does the sun move accross the sky?"
"Well, obviously, Apollo pulls it with his chariot."
Uh huh.
Are you going to tell me there's something "bigger than us controlling what happens." Why does there have to be a "point?" What is the "point" of an aardvark's life? Or an ant? Or a giraffe? To survive and make a living. Same for man.
-= It's not easy to kidnap a fat man =-
http://www.cvanepps.com |
|
|
|
ramona
"FB Quote Mistress"
USA
3988 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2004 : 08:43:50
|
I am not saying that there IS something bigger than us or that there is ANY point, I am saying I think that is why SOME PEOPLE are drawn to religions. Sheesh.
_____________________________________________________________________
It`s so shameful of me - I like you
because you`re not right in the head
and nor am I - and this is why
you`re not right in the head
and nor am I - and this is why
and this is why I like you
|
|
|
|
The Calistanian
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1342 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2004 : 08:44:25
|
*The Calistanian hears the word "religion" and steps in*
Religion is very scary...on the whole.
I totally understand why people are atheists. I myself am a Christian, but I understand that there are many people who profess to be Christians, but do not live like they are.
To try to answer your earth creation question, Glacial906, I believe the the existence of humans is 6,000 years. As for the creation of the earth, it could be untold billions of years old. The creative "days" don't necessarily mean 1,000 years = day. Therefore that would have allowed time for God to create the dinosaurs and had them die off. As for there purpose, I guess we don't really know. Maybe it was preparing the earth somehow for human existence. I mean, we do benefit from dinosaurs yet today.
1. I am a fsh with no i's.
2. You must be wearing Zubaz, 'cause you're daring to be different.
3. I am a man with 3 fingers...but that doesn't count my index finger nor my thumb. |
|
|
|
The Calistanian
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1342 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2004 : 08:46:01
|
I will say that most of religion, especially most professed Christian religions, offer terrible answers to Bible/life related questions.
1. I am a fsh with no i's.
2. You must be wearing Zubaz, 'cause you're daring to be different.
3. I am a man with 3 fingers...but that doesn't count my index finger nor my thumb. |
|
|
|
The Calistanian
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1342 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2004 : 08:50:42
|
quote:
Originally posted by glacial906
Yet, at the same time, I sometimes find myself worrying that if I were to die today I'd go to Hell.
Take me, break me, tell me a good one and maybe I'll cry
Hell is one topic I've never understood the reasoning behind.
Going back to original translations, "hell" means the grave.
It was a doctrine that developed during the early part of A.D.
If God is loving, and loves us like children, why would there be a hell?
If your child did something wrong, would you punish them by holding their hand over the stove for a long time, even just a moment? Of course not. That's ridiculous.
So is burning in hell.
1. I am a fsh with no i's.
2. You must be wearing Zubaz, 'cause you're daring to be different.
3. I am a man with 3 fingers...but that doesn't count my index finger nor my thumb. |
|
|
|
frank_black_francis
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
895 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2004 : 09:17:15
|
quote:
Originally posted by fudd
quote:
Originally posted by frank_black_francis
Inasmuch as people are 'lead' in organized religion, it is the same for atheism and agnosticm.
?!?!?!
I was led to believe in a crock of shit, and saw through it. And I think this is the case with most of us.
yea....but have you exhausted all possible answers....being atheist actually might be the easy answer for some...
Bam Thwok, I crapped myself! |
|
|
|
NimrodsSon
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1938 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2004 : 09:34:44
|
Within the last six months or so I've completely rejected my Christian upbringings, mainly because Christianity is so illogical and such a human-centered, egotistical religion. I would say that Christianity came about as man's excuse and justification for being the dominant species on the earth ("Made in the image of God"), and I just don't buy it. I'm not about to give my life to "God" so that I can be a part of a religion that is the major cause of all the world's problems (and it is--Judaeism brought about Islam and Christianity and all three of those combined have caused all the major problems and evils we are facing today) and is so damned hateful to all other forms of life other than humans. Vegetarians/animal rights activists, environmentalists, and even some human rights activists are all looked down upon in Christianity because "God gave humans dominion over the animals; it doesn't matter if we destroy the planet because (are you ready) THE LORD, JESUS WILL RETURN TO TAKE HIS CHILDREN HOME before WE destroy the earth (i.e. do whatever the Hell you want to the earth so you can speed up the return of Jesus); and in the case of the human rights activists, if their focus is primarily on the well-being of other humans, then they are not focused enough on God or "leading those humans to the Lord." Being raised a southern Babtist Christian with a five-point Calvanist father, I do occasionally fear that it all may be true and I might go to Hell when I die, and this is where it really gets funny and illogical on the part of the Christians! A Christian would say that it is "God tugging at my heart to come to Him" and when, after several years I finally no longer have that fear, they would say that "The Holy Spirit has left you and you are doomed to go to Hell." Of course, anyone who is born and raised a Christian and strays from those beliefs will fear that they may go to Hell, but that is only because the belief has been pumped into them their whole life and turning from something you have believed in your whole does not come easily. Of course, after several years you will no longer fear going to Hell, because it has become a way of life not to believe this. I have also accepted the fact that even if (which is a VERY unlikely if) Christianity is true, I would rather burn in Hell than be in Heaven worshipping a hateful, insensitive, uncaring God for eternity.
All that being said, I do believe that there could be a god--not the human-like God, who created us in his image, sitting up in Heaven on his royal throne with a crown on his head, but maybe a force or something (I really don't know). I believe in the self-transcendence of humans and the possibility for us to be one with this God if there is such a thing. I would like to call myself and agnostic mystic, but I am more a mystic in belief than practice. I've been reading a lot of mystic writings lately (currently the Bhagavad Gita and the Perrennial Philosophy by Huxley) and I hope to delve into myticism more as I learn more about it.
ˇViva los Católicos! |
|
|
|
NimrodsSon
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1938 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2004 : 09:39:22
|
Here's a great quote by Tom Waits: The interviewer asked him if he was religious.
"I don't know. The only trouble with going to Heaven is that I'm scared that there's no nightclubs up there. I think I'd rather go down there."
ˇViva los Católicos! |
|
|
|
The Calistanian
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1342 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2004 : 10:02:48
|
Government in the future will make an attempt to eliminate religion, as it is the cause of all the major problems on this earth.
Consider this:
Why would religious leaders bless soldiers going off to war, possibly even warring against people of their same denomination?
Why is the Pope's word ahead of what the Bible says?
Why has God's name been eliminated from the Bible?
Why is Mary worshipped, when the Bible commands only God to be worshipped?
Why is Christmas celebrated as Jesus' birthday, when he was not born on December 25th?
Why are Catholic priests forbid to marry, when the Bible says nothing of the sort?
There are "Christians" today who accept these things, are told they are wrong, and yet do not change.
1. I am a fsh with no i's.
2. You must be wearing Zubaz, 'cause you're daring to be different.
3. I am a man with 3 fingers...but that doesn't count my index finger nor my thumb. |
|
|
|
remig
* Dog in the Sand *
France
1734 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2004 : 10:23:40
|
Topic seems interesting but long posts, i don't have the time to read it right now.
Someone can resume it for me?
|
|
|
|
darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2004 : 10:35:32
|
quote:
Originally posted by The Calistanian
Government in the future will make an attempt to eliminate religion, as it is the cause of all the major problems on this earth.
Why would they try to eliminate it when it so often seems to serve their purposes? How much harder would it be to motivate people to march off to war if there wasn't religion?
I'm not a religous guy, but I think it's an exaggeration to blame all of our problems on religion. Is religion responsible for our environmental problems (habitat loss, extinctions, global warming, toxic pollution)? I suppose you could say some religions encourage exploitation of the environment, but others encourage stewardhip of the environment. I think that even in the absence of religion we would still be shortsighted and fail to make decisions that have short-term costs but long-term benefits, like preserving habitat or making fuels more expensive to encourage conservation. |
|
|
|
The Calistanian
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1342 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2004 : 11:30:43
|
quote:
Originally posted by darwin
quote:
Originally posted by The Calistanian
Government in the future will make an attempt to eliminate religion, as it is the cause of all the major problems on this earth.
Why would they try to eliminate it when it so often seems to serve their purposes? How much harder would it be to motivate people to march off to war if there wasn't religion?
I'm not a religous guy, but I think it's an exaggeration to blame all of our problems on religion. Is religion responsible for our environmental problems (habitat loss, extinctions, global warming, toxic pollution)? I suppose you could say some religions encourage exploitation of the environment, but others encourage stewardhip of the environment. I think that even in the absence of religion we would still be shortsighted and fail to make decisions that have short-term costs but long-term benefits, like preserving habitat or making fuels more expensive to encourage conservation.
Well, I don't think that government's elimination of religion will by any means solve human problems. There is nothing humans can do to reverse the atrocities (sp?) that have happened and are happening on a daily basis in the world. So, no, religion does not cause all of earth's problems...but they hold a large share of it.
And yes, religion does seem to do the governments well at this time. But what happens as more and more atrocities are committed in the name of "religion" or "God"? The masses as a whole are cooling off toward religion, and that will ultimately influence the governments. All it will take is for a few world leaders to be in office who don't have any religious ties, for governments to turn on religion. I believe more attention and responsibility will be given the United Nations in this matter, which, if they had any power whatsoever, could be devastating to religion if it decided to eliminate it.
I think most people enter the military or go off to war based on nationalistic pride more than anything else nowadays. Nationalism is scary too, and is becoming stronger than religion.
1. I am a fsh with no i's.
2. You must be wearing Zubaz, 'cause you're daring to be different.
3. I am a man with 3 fingers...but that doesn't count my index finger nor my thumb. |
|
|
|
TarTar
* Dog in the Sand *
1965 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2004 : 11:49:13
|
As far as I'm concerned, the Bible has nothing to do with the God they speak of in it. Not that I'm even sure if the God they speak of in the Bible exists, but if He does, I certainly don't think that the Bible is an accurate representation of Him.
"You gotta watch the mota, Thurston. Yr fuckin memory just goes out the window." |
|
|
|
The Calistanian
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1342 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2004 : 11:49:43
|
quote:
Originally posted by remig
Topic seems interesting but long posts, i don't have the time to read it right now.
Someone can resume it for me?
Heh, some of us have to make up for the lack of content in our "Hahaha", "Good point", and "Yeah" posts.
1. I am a fsh with no i's.
2. You must be wearing Zubaz, 'cause you're daring to be different.
3. I am a man with 3 fingers...but that doesn't count my index finger nor my thumb. |
|
|
|
Opaque
= Cult of Ray =
USA
251 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2004 : 13:38:17
|
quote:
Originally posted by Little Black Francis
OT
Ms. Opaque, you need to add Fb.net as a link to music on your favorite website or homepage link in your profile... come on now =)
Anyway, seriously.
Uh, nice site and nice work by the way
Post that link!
Akchally... I prolly will add it in at the next site update. And thank you.  Always nice to read positive feedback. Especially since I work so hard at it and all.
"You've gotta listen for a weird, strange noise. Something out of the ordinary." - John Crichton |
|
|
|
NimrodsSon
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1938 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2004 : 13:53:17
|
quote:
Originally posted by darwin
I'm not a religous guy, but I think it's an exaggeration to blame all of our problems on religion. Is religion responsible for our environmental problems (habitat loss, extinctions, global warming, toxic pollution)? I suppose you could say some religions encourage exploitation of the environment, but others encourage stewardhip of the environment. I think that even in the absence of religion we would still be shortsighted and fail to make decisions that have short-term costs but long-term benefits, like preserving habitat or making fuels more expensive to encourage conservation.
I wouldn't blame all our problems on religion. Some religions, especially eastern mystical religions such as Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, etc. are very peaceful and do encourage things like stewardship of the environment. I would, however, go so far as to say that Christianity and the religions it stems from are the causes of most, if not all of the world's problems, and I don't think that's an exaggeration. It certainly sounds silly and naive, but if you look back in history at the very root of all the world's problems, I'd say that Christianity, Judaeism, and Islam would play a very important role in 95% of them.
ˇViva los Católicos! |
Edited by - NimrodsSon on 06/24/2004 14:23:47 |
|
|
|
Bartholomew
= Cult of Ray =
USA
344 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2004 : 14:03:28
|
| I think you're thinking in too specific terms, Glacial. Forget religion. You can believe in God or some sort of higher power and not in the bible or the Koran or Harry Carry's Holy Cow book. I believe we are all connected, man and nature, to some type of higher force, but that's as far as I go. To me religion is silly, like a "greater power for dummies" source of belief. The silliness part doesn't bother me so much. What does is how mentally limiting it is to lock-in to the notion that only your specific belief is correct and everybody else is wrong. The argument I always give my wife against religion (a Christian, sigh...)is: if there is a God, would he really allow only this small fraction of people to ascend to Heaven and the rest be condemned to hell for eternity? What if you live in some freakin remote cave or something and have never heard the word? What would God then say, tough shit? Surely if there is a God, the bastard's a little brighter and more compassionate than that. Furthermore, if there is a God, would he not also want us to have an open mind (something very un-christianlike, believe me) and figure out what we believe ourselves, not have some preacher telling us this and that...etc. etc. Man, this works me up everytime. Funny too, that I live in a town with more church-goers per capita than most. Funny. Crying. Tears running down my cheek. |
|
|
|
The Calistanian
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1342 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2004 : 14:10:08
|
Balance is the key. God is reasonable, so we should take notice of the unreasonable things, like burning in hell, or whatever, and be confident that God would not be behind such a ridiculous idea.
1. I am a fsh with no i's.
2. You must be wearing Zubaz, 'cause you're daring to be different.
3. I am a man with 3 fingers...but that doesn't count my index finger nor my thumb. |
|
|
|
Cheeseman1000
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Iceland
8201 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2004 : 16:44:54
|
Calistanian, go look up the Christians v Atheists thread - you so do not want to get into this argument!
My end of the stick: if you're blaming religion for all this stuff and you don't believe any of them are correct, isn't the root cause just people anyway?
 "Ee-hee! Shamone!" |
|
|
|
VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2004 : 18:20:22
|
quote:
Why is it that Christians villify atheism and science so much?
Not ALL Christians are against science. I think quite a few scientists ARE Christians. It's just that the Christians who get most of the press are the wacko fundamentalist types who don't like to think for themselves.
quote:
As far as I'm concerned, the Bible has nothing to do with the God they speak of in it. Not that I'm even sure if the God they speak of in the Bible exists, but if He does, I certainly don't think that the Bible is an accurate representation of Him.
How very gnostic of you, TarTar.
I'm not religious, personally. I don't know that I would call myself an atheist, since that means you're sure there is no God, and I tend not to be sure about anything. I'm more of an agnostic. I don't have anything against other people practicing whatever religion they want, as long as they don't harm or try to enforce their beliefs upon others.
Cattle in Korea / They can really moo. |
|
|
|
darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2004 : 20:40:01
|
quote:
Originally posted by NimrodsSon
It certainly sounds silly and naive, but if you look back in history at the very root of all the world's problems, I'd say that Christianity, Judaeism, and Islam would play a very important role in 95% of them.
ˇViva los Católicos!
The Chinese are fucking up their environment pretty well they aren't any those 3 religions.
The main causes of our environmental problems are overpopulation and overconsumption. Do religions cause those? I don't know. |
|
|
|
floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2004 : 20:45:30
|
quote:
Originally posted by The Calistanian
Balance is the key. God is reasonable, so we should take notice of the unreasonable things, like burning in hell, or whatever, and be confident that God would not be behind such a ridiculous idea.
you'll burn in hell for that.
|
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
Religion is Scary
