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El Barto
= Song DB Master =
USA
4020 Posts |
 Posted - 05/22/2004 : 12:51:36
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I agree...government should not be allowed to create laws which control how people live their lives like this when no one is being hurt. And I also agree that hatred towards homosexuals is because of the Bible and ancient ways of living; people are afraid of what they don't understand.
Boycott cults and t's |
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ProverbialCereal
- FB TabMaster -
USA
2953 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2004 : 14:58:59
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Not all people are afraid of what they don't understand.
And also not all hatred towards homosexuals is because of the Bible. I'm sure there are many of non-Bible readers who hate homosexuals.
I think too many people blame too many problems on the Bible and Christianity (and other religions), when violence and hatred that apparently stems from these things is really the result of psychopaths within the sects and churches. Stupid people with their heads on backward are the problem as far as I see it.
I've known some churches to have gay elders and deacons.
Just quit a cult / going through withdrawal |
Edited by - ProverbialCereal on 05/22/2004 14:59:58 |
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jediroller
* Dog in the Sand *
France
1718 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2004 : 15:42:06
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Who ever proved that different-sex couples were sure to make a good job of raising children?
Why should we believe that gay couples will automatically raise gay children?
After all, most homosexuals have straight parents.
I can't help suspecting that under all that lurks the old prejudice: people still tend, irrationally, to associate "homosexual" and "paedophile". The extreme right-wingers play heavily on that.
The newspapers here are full of truly horrible stories about people abusing children (sometimes their own). The culprits are straight and married. No one ever questioned their right to procreate. And now they're telling us that George and Phil, or Kate and Paula, cannot be allowed to adopt because we don't know what effect gay parents could have on the kid's development? Who are they trying to fool? Why should gays be the target of automatic suspicion, when nobody ever questioned the right of known paedophiles, murderers, alcoholics, junkies or George Bush Sr. to have as many children as they like?
I'm sorry but that's not what I call "making sense."
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Everything I say to you is gonna come out wrong anyway |
Edited by - jediroller on 05/23/2004 01:32:16 |
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mun chien andalusia
= Quote Accumulator =
Italy
2139 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2004 : 19:55:50
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Ok. I'm passing for a Nazi idiot here and i don't like it. The issue is if gay couples should adopt children. My opinion remains that they should not. Human reproduction is what it is and you can't change it. For the record i am against sterile couples having artificially inseminated children too. A woman that cannot have children must not be legally authorized to have her sister conceive a child and then hand it to her.
 join the cult of errol\and you can have a beer\without having to quit smoking
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ramona
"FB Quote Mistress"
USA
3988 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2004 : 20:03:49
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I am glad your omnipotence knows no bounds. A God for all people! Just what we need.
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there's fire if you want it, let me know. I'm sick and tired of letting go... |
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broken part
- FB Fan -
226 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2004 : 20:25:28
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Let's see the tirade of abuse following this post:
I don't like gays. Its not because a man likes to butthole another man. I could care less about what people get up to in private. But the whole gay community is more than just gay (and I am not gay but I say this knowlegdelably since I live in London - the gay capital of Europe). They are a freak show. They don't talk like normal people, they don't walk like normal people (although there are understandable reasons here ;) ) and generally act like complete fuckin cretins. And it's this what I hold against them not their sexual preference per se. I think the same kind of argument was brough in another thread regarding trashy niggers ppl vs respectable black gentelmen. It's the same with faggots vs gays. I know that there are perfectly normal gay people that should be treated no different from the rest but they are lost in an ocean of depraved voyeurism.
I don't now how it's going down in the States but here belonging to a minority is somethiing to be comfortably used as an umbrella to fend off any criticism. So if he is black he cannot be a thief or you are racist. If he is gay he cannot be immoral less you're homophobic. And so on. |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2004 : 20:49:43
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mun chien, it sounds like you don't think gay couples should adopt because you think their children might turn out gay. (you use the term "maladjusted," which i take to mean gay). if you have nothing against gays, or homosexuality, then why would it concern you if more gay people are brought into the world?
and if you're talking about being "maladjusted" in a different way, what are you talking about? and what evidence do you have to back this up?
i agree with whoever said this is a non-issue. i can't believe that we're still grappling with this.. with all the other advances we've made, it's amazing to me that this is still such an issue.
and ramona hit the nail on the head. if two people have love to give, and they'd be responsible parents, they should be allowed. do you feel maladjusted because you were raised by a gay parent ramona?
with 1 out of every 4 marriages working out, straight couples aren't exactly giving themselves a good name either. i think the decision of whether someone should be a parent or not should have nothing to do with sexuality, and everything to do with how good they'd be as parents. there are SO FUCKING MANY people having kids who should not have kids. and people having kids who don't want kids. at least, like ramona said, this would be a couple who wants kids.. which is already a better scenario than the enviornment some kids are brought up in. |
Edited by - floop on 05/22/2004 21:16:33 |
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fudd
= Cult of Ray =
664 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2004 : 21:12:33
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| The Zen student David J said something like "You cannot go against nature/ Because if you do/ Go against nature/ It's part of nature too." Add to this the Golden Rule, and maybe someday we will live in a world where people can be themselves, live the way they want to, and not be scorned or restricted for it. What the hell business is it of yours whether people adopt, use technology to conceive, or walk or talk differently? Sorry for the rash words earlier. Wish I had saved them for broken part. |
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realmeanmotorscutor
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1764 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2004 : 21:20:41
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I don't know if it's that some of you just aren't reading people's posts or if it's that you don't care and have decided to generalize, assume and attack no matter what, but it's really pissing me off. Read a bit closer! There's nothing I hate more than when a person essentially says "please don't think I believe such-and-such" and then 5 people come along and say "it sounds like you believe such-and-such." READ!
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2004 : 21:37:44
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can you be more specific realmean?
if you're refering to my post, i did read, and stand by what i say. i think it's ironic to say "i don't have anything against gays" but at the same time worry that kids might grow up in an "unconventional" way. this kind of thinking, unconventional = bad, is what causes hatred and fear.
if you weren't refering to me, i apologize. |
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VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2004 : 21:50:30
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quote:
I don't like gays. Its not because a man likes to butthole another man. I could care less about what people get up to in private. But the whole gay community is more than just gay (and I am not gay but I say this knowlegdelably since I live in London - the gay capital of Europe). They are a freak show.
So you don't like the gay stereotype, and you're insisting that you "don't like gay people" because of this? Not all homosexuals are part of this "gay community" by any means.
quote:
I don't now how it's going down in the States but here belonging to a minority is somethiing to be comfortably used as an umbrella to fend off any criticism. So if he is black he cannot be a thief or you are racist. If he is gay he cannot be immoral less you're homophobic.
Well, if you think a person is immoral BECAUSE he's gay, then yes, you're homophobic. But maybe that wasn't what you were getting at.
Cattle in Korea / They can really moo. |
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jediroller
* Dog in the Sand *
France
1718 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2004 : 22:42:59
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Mun Chien, I don't think anyone who's been reading the forum for some time would mistake you for a Nazi idiot. I certainly don't. I disagree with your point of view, is all.
I think the traditional idea of family has imploded quite some time ago, and lots of people (including political leaders, who are mostly unable to go with change until it's bitten them in the ass, because they are certain that voters are deeply conservative, and religious leaders, because hypocrisy and reject of change is part of the job description) refuse to see it and talk about "family", meaning Daddy-Mommy-boy-and-girl, as something that has to be "protected".
But is it that precious? Will our civilization crumble if "marriage" ceases to mean the union of a man and woman intended for procreation? Well, if so, I have bad news. I'm married and don't plan to have children, and I'm not the only one. I'm proudly doing my bit for the Decline of Western Civilization.
That notion of marriage being exclusively created for man and woman comes from the very same set of rules that said that buggery was a mortal crime and that the woman should obey the man. We've overcome these, the rest will follow.
broken part, you need to stay home and keep the TV off during the next Gay Pride. You've seen one parade too many. Your post is obviously provocative, but it's not less dumb for that. The fact that you're fed a stereotypical image of "gay people" and that lots of homosexuals -- who are force-fed exactly the same stereotype -- ate it up, and ended up thinking that was the way they should behave so they can "be themselves", doesn't mean all gays are like that. Or want to be.
"I know that there are perfectly normal gay people that should be treated no different from the rest but they are lost in an ocean of depraved voyeurism." Well, I'm happy to see you were dedicated enough to count them so you can tell us where the majority lies. What would you think if I said, "I know there are perfectly normal white people but they are lost in an ocean of redneck racism", or "I know there are perfectly normal straight people but they are lost in an ocean of backward homophobia"?...
Think about it. Generalizations = lazy thinking.
[Edited to add this P.S.] Besides, if you've kept your eyes open long enough to notice the endless flow of pornography, sexual innudendo and nudity we're all being subjected to all day long, on TV, in movies and advertisement, you may have come to the conclusion that everybody is "lost in an ocean of depravity and voyeurism." And in this case why single out homosexuals?
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Everything I say to you is gonna come out wrong anyway |
Edited by - jediroller on 05/22/2004 22:49:07 |
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offerw
* Dog in the Sand *
South Africa
1264 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2004 : 01:17:17
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Very well said in both of your posts jediroller. Thank you.
wilhelm |
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ivandivel
= Cult of Ray =
394 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2004 : 03:28:02
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Gay people should have the opportunity to get married, and have the same rights - BUT -having children is not "a right". No it's not. Children are people, they should definetely not be used as weapons in a civil rights debate. So i don't see the problem with waiting until one has done a little more research on the topic.
Because, I did some fast searchs at ISI, and found this; most reviewers conclude that there seem to be little difference between children adopted by gay couples and sraight couples (breeders... - anyone heard kim deal talking about how they got their name?). However, they also conclude that it is too early to conclude... Partly beacuse of the methodological limitations/flaws of some of the studies, but mostly because there havent been enouhg research yes. There are also studies indicating that there are important differences - which may not be helpfull to the child. Thus, at the moment, there has simply been too little research on gay adoption. Also, the research seem driven by idealogists (from both sides) - and anyone who has done research knows you can come a long way with statistics in pushing your own arguments.
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GypsyDeath
Zapped Profile
3575 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2004 : 05:53:50
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Ok, I feel slightly ill from reading alot of these posts.
I have been bought up very much in the gay community. My mumis gay, and so is my uncle.
I look at my life, and me now, and look at alot of my friends - Theres no question where I would want to be. Right where I am.
When I was younger, I remember looking at straight couples kissing and going 'eww' cos it was a man and woman - I wasnt used to that at all.
I think i probably grew up a lot faster than alot of people my age, and understood, and saw, the evil of humans at quite an early age.
As well as prejudice.
But it shaped me to realise that humans come in all different shapes and sizes, but were all part of the same race. Totally controversial what im about to say, but I think everyone should be bought up by gay parents! ( im not totally serious here, that would defy the point of it)
When I was younger, i necver stereotyped, or was prejudice against anyone. I could not understand how any one could. As ive got older, i do stereotype a little, but i dont write off an entire group due to my preception of them.
Gay marriage. As someoe said, its such a non issue. I dotn think people realise that you have these gay couples which have been together for years, and then one dies. the partner doesnt get any of the rights a married couple does. such as insurance, and stuff like that. That is whats disgusting about it.
Im terrified of when the first gay marriage breaks up. it will be all over the news ' fags got stubbed out' or soemthing equally as bad. and then all the anti-gay marriage people will sit their smirking. But if that the case, shouldnt marriage in general be illegal?
Broken Part - London, gay capitol of europe? You dont get out much do you?
You dont like the way they walk? or speak? well I know HUNDREDS of straight people that I can not stand the way they walk, or speak, or their attitude in general. SO, i dont like straight people(that could make my love life quite difficult...). It doesnt work like that. Youre speaking about a small part of the community. There are lots of different 'types' of gay people. you seem to be only referring to men - whys this? do you have a problem with lesbians ? you say "they dont walk like normal peole" Im sorry, but who the fuck gave you the right to say what is normal and what is not? I can not believe you even said that. Unless you are speaking like how normal is preceived. But uinless you can give me an example of normal, id like you to explain exactly what is abnormal about my mother, and my uncle, and the people that I grew up with, as well as some of my closest friends. Because they dont ahve 8 eyes, 3 noses, any extra limbs. you know what, id say they are just like YOU and me.
So at least you recognise there are sectors of the community which are not like that.
I love you for what I am not,
I did not ask for what I have got.
You will get used to me.
Welcome to your new joy. |
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TheCroutonFuton
- Mr. Setlists -
USA
1728 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2004 : 05:54:14
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I never understood why people put the letter "a" in "pedophile" (paedophile)...haha, anyways!
I used to think I was gay, actually. In middle-school and my freshman year of high-school (well the beginning of it atleast) I was called "Fag." "Homo!" "Queer!" etc. etc. etc. Why? I'm the shy ugly kid in the back of the room who keeps to himself except for a few "weird" guy friends. I also didn't take porn when offered it...and of course, I'm a horny teenager so if I don't take it I'm automatically gay. After about 2 years I just figured I was gay since that's what everyone else seemed to find obvious. There was only one problem with this: I wasn't attracted to any men. None. How can I be gay when I'm not attracted to men?
Skip forward nearly two years (now): I have a girlfriend who is in college while all of my peers either don't have a relationship or are in the petty 2 week "high-school flings" that are purely sexual. Somehow I still get called gay. I've come to the conclusion that most young people are just insecure as hell about their own sexuality and have to find a reason to put someone else down. They'll create an image of the person they want to hate in their mind and hold on to it...even if it's fictional. Plus "gay", "fag", "queer", "homo" and etc are insults to non-gay people, apparently. Just think about it...how many times have you heard your "friends" call the Pixies "gay" or Frank Black a "fag" because they don't like the music? It's crazy...
Now...about gay marriages...it's fine by me. If they love eachother and want to why shouldn't they? As for the "gay adoption is wrong because society says it's wrong" thing...it's never going to change if they give into the pressure. Apl4eris made a great point about the racism thing...the gay people of America (and everywhere for that matter) need to take a stand and change things. People will keep on being raised to be homophobes.
Anyways..there'd my 20-odd cents on it. |
Edited by - TheCroutonFuton on 05/23/2004 06:02:21 |
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VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2004 : 10:33:04
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quote:
Think about it. Generalizations = lazy thinking.
All generalizations are always bad!
quote:
I never understood why people put the letter "a" in "pedophile" (paedophile)...
An archaic and/or foreign spelling of the word, perhaps? Or maybe just a mistake.
Cattle in Korea / They can really moo. |
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ramona
"FB Quote Mistress"
USA
3988 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2004 : 10:57:07
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quote:
Originally posted by floop
and ramona hit the nail on the head. if two people have love to give, and they'd be responsible parents, they should be allowed. do you feel maladjusted because you were raised by a gay parent ramona?
No, I do not. I think I was lucky enough to be raised by two parents who love(d) me unconditionally, one just happens to be gay. If I were describing my dad I would say he was loving, fun, brutally honest, immensely talented, and super cool. The GAY thing barely even factors in. It's just who he is - he has blue eyes, he's 56, he's gay. It's a moot point.
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there's fire if you want it, let me know. I'm sick and tired of letting go... |
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BLT
> Teenager of the Year <
South Sandwich Islands
4204 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2004 : 12:42:07
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| When I was 18, I dated a 16 year old. Her parents were still legally married, living in the same apartment, but not really a "couple." Her father was gay. He used to pick up guys in the park and bring them home. Her mother had fought it for a while and finally grew apathetic about the situation. She should have kicked him out or left, but evidently didn't have the guts. Anyway, a few years after I split up with her, she moved up to Berkeley to go to school and "joined the other team," so to speak. Mutual aquaintances told me she became a dyke. I'm just letting you people know that every gay parent isn't a fucking ball of joy and it does have an effect on kids sometimes. |
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ProverbialCereal
- FB TabMaster -
USA
2953 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2004 : 12:51:49
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Yeah, good point. There are surely gay broken homes. Just as there are straight broken homes.
When gay marriage is legalized, I wonder how the statistics of "gay divroce" will compare to "straight divorce."
Just quit a cult / going through withdrawal |
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darkoutsider
= Cult of Ray =
USA
285 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2004 : 14:01:08
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quote:
Originally posted by BLT
When I was 18, I dated a 16 year old. Her parents were still legally married, living in the same apartment, but not really a "couple." Her father was gay. He used to pick up guys in the park and bring them home. Her mother had fought it for a while and finally grew apathetic about the situation. She should have kicked him out or left, but evidently didn't have the guts. Anyway, a few years after I split up with her, she moved up to Berkeley to go to school and "joined the other team," so to speak. Mutual aquaintances told me she became a dyke. I'm just letting you people know that every gay parent isn't a fucking ball of joy and it does have an effect on kids sometimes.
What does that prove? I have friends that go out to college and become FLAMERS!! and they had straight parents. That has no effect on the children's future. There's no proof. It's just chance really. Straight parents have gay kids too.
But that's just my opinion, I could be wrong. |
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ramona
"FB Quote Mistress"
USA
3988 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2004 : 14:15:31
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quote:
Originally posted by BLT
When I was 18, I dated a 16 year old. Her parents were still legally married, living in the same apartment, but not really a "couple." Her father was gay. He used to pick up guys in the park and bring them home. Her mother had fought it for a while and finally grew apathetic about the situation. She should have kicked him out or left, but evidently didn't have the guts. Anyway, a few years after I split up with her, she moved up to Berkeley to go to school and "joined the other team," so to speak. Mutual aquaintances told me she became a dyke. I'm just letting you people know that every gay parent isn't a fucking ball of joy and it does have an effect on kids sometimes.
Again, this is also true for many people with two straight parents. When I was 13 my best friends dad left her mom for another women, which fucked up my friends opinion of men and her trust of people in general. For every bad story about gay parents, there is one about straight parents and vice versa. Life is not fucking perfect, no matter who your parents are and there is only so much you can blame on them. People need to take responsibility for their OWN lives.
Also, why is gay parents having gay kids so shocking? No one complains or talks about the "effect" when straight parents have straight kids.
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there's fire if you want it, let me know. I'm sick and tired of letting go... |
Edited by - ramona on 05/23/2004 14:22:21 |
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ramona
"FB Quote Mistress"
USA
3988 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2004 : 14:20:00
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quote:
Originally posted by BLT
Mutual aquaintances told me she became a dyke. I'm just letting you people know that every gay parent isn't a fucking ball of joy and it does have an effect on kids sometimes.
Sorry to keep commenting on this - but one last thing. Why is her being a "dyke" bad? And also, she probably always was one. It's not like changing your hair.
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there's fire if you want it, let me know. I'm sick and tired of letting go... |
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2004 : 14:29:25
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Aye BLT - the 'gayness' wasn't a factor in the split, apparently the relationship was over, what difference does it make who's fucking who? Perhaps if society were more supportive or even tolerant of 'other' lifestyles, people would be able to make better decisions earlier in life, rather than waiting half their lives before 'coming out'.
I'm really saddened by the people on here who are opposed to gay marriage or gay adoption. I have yet to read *one* substantial argument against either.
A gay union is NO DIFFERENT than a straight one. It's TWO PEOPLE WHO LOVE EACH OTHER AND HAVE MADE A COMMITMENT TO EACH OTHER. It doesn't matter if they're from different countries, have different skin colors or are the same gender. The end is the same. And yeah, there will be dysfunctional gay parents, just as there are dysfunctional straight ones. At least the kids from the gay families will be more TOLERANT.
I'm surprised we haven't seen this line:
"Opposition to gay marriage is gay."
hehe
 Join the Cult of the Flying Pigxies - I'm A Believer! |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2004 : 16:24:06
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Ramona/Darkoutsider, I think the point BLT was trying to make is this:
BLT: "I'm just letting you people know that every gay parent isn't a fucking ball of joy and it does have an effect on kids sometimes."
So all he's trying to 'prove' is that there's it's not all perfect on the other side, which I find it hard to believe anyone could take exception with. Don't be so defensive!
On an unrelated note, not being against it (i.e. being tolerant) doesn't necessarily mean you are all for it. I think this is the problem that some politicians have. Being tolerant just means that it's not doing any harm to anyone else, so what is the big deal? This is my feeling on gay marriage. I don't see what the big deal is. Two people love each other, good for them. There are far bigger problems in society than that. :)
 "When 5000 posts you reach / Look as good you will not, hmmm?" |
Edited by - Cult_Of_Frank on 05/23/2004 16:25:25 |
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ramona
"FB Quote Mistress"
USA
3988 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2004 : 16:46:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Cult_Of_Frank
Ramona/Darkoutsider, I think the point BLT was trying to make is this:
BLT: "I'm just letting you people know that every gay parent isn't a fucking ball of joy and it does have an effect on kids sometimes."
So all he's trying to 'prove' is that there's it's not all perfect on the other side, which I find it hard to believe anyone could take exception with. Don't be so defensive!
Yeah, I can read, Dean. I never said he was trying to "proove" anything, I simply stated that that is true for anybody, no matter WHO your parents are. I also never said anything about having a gay parent was perfect, all I said was having people who love you gives you a great headstart. In my opinion.
I disagreed with the tone of his post and saying this girl "became a dyke" and I think I stated it fairly. Please don't tell me not to be defensive, as I think it states here, I already have a father. Thanks.
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there's fire if you want it, let me know. I'm sick and tired of letting go... |
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ramona
"FB Quote Mistress"
USA
3988 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2004 : 16:48:54
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PS. If I WAS being defensive, I think I've earned the right. This topic has become somewhat about having gay parents, and I happen to have a gay parent (as we all know by now!). So, there ya go. When you have a gay parent, you can come back and tell me not to be so defensive and maybe I will feel like you aren't bossing me around.
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there's fire if you want it, let me know. I'm sick and tired of letting go... |
Edited by - ramona on 05/23/2004 16:50:25 |
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Adnan_le_Terrible
* Dog in the Sand *
France
1973 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2004 : 17:13:41
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quote:
Originally posted by El Barto
I agree...government should not be allowed to create laws which control how people live their lives like this when no one is being hurt. And I also agree that hatred towards homosexuals is because of the Bible and ancient ways of living; people are afraid of what they don't understand.
Boycott cults and t's
I am surrounded by many Jewish and Muslim people in France and unfortunately, they're not very tolerant towards homosexuality either.
However, I must say that being quite "gay friendly" (especially after witnessing horrible sufferings of a friend of mine when he told about his homosexuality to his parents and relatives), I must say that I remember seeing two boys of my age kissing when I was 5 years old, and how I was freaked out about it. I guess homophobia is a natural feeling that straight people have, and it's only when you get to know gay people that you can change.
My point is that we are not born tolerant. It's something that must be taught. I understand why some people from the forum are annoyed by certain remarks, but they should also understand that other people are not as open-minded as they are, because they had a different life experience.
I keep feeling like people are just looking at screens and web sites all the time, but do they ever do anything? Or go out and say anything to anyone? I'm not so sure anymore. |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2004 : 18:03:24
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quote:
Originally posted by BLT
When I was 18, I dated a 16 year old. Her parents were still legally married, living in the same apartment, but not really a "couple." Her father was gay. He used to pick up guys in the park and bring them home. Her mother had fought it for a while and finally grew apathetic about the situation. She should have kicked him out or left, but evidently didn't have the guts. Anyway, a few years after I split up with her, she moved up to Berkeley to go to school and "joined the other team," so to speak. Mutual aquaintances told me she became a dyke. I'm just letting you people know that every gay parent isn't a fucking ball of joy and it does have an effect on kids sometimes.
like ramona already asked, why is her becoming a lesbian a bad thing? this self-perpetuating cycyle. it's like saying, "i don't have against gays, and there's nothing wrong with homosexuality, but god forbid that someone should turn out gay."
the fact that she grew up in an unstable household had nothing to do with her dad being gay. he could just as easily have been sleeping around with women and it would be equally fucked up. you're right, her mom should have kicked him out. not because he was gay, but because sleeping around and bringing other people home. that's not a healthy example for a kid from parents of any kind of marriage. obviously he didn't love her or his daughter, or he would have done the responsible thing and just gotten the fuck out.
no one's trying to argue that growing up in a gay family is better, or problem free. just that they're equally valid. marriages and parenting rely on the individuals involved. gay or straight.
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BLT
> Teenager of the Year <
South Sandwich Islands
4204 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2004 : 18:03:52
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When did I say that her being a dyke is bad? Nor did I say I was against gay marriage. I told a true story about a gay person who was an insensitive asshole. The reason I told this story is because, in reading this thread, I got the impression that some people think everything would be just peachy with gay marriage or gay parents if only the rest of this cruel world could only be tolerant of them.
And I know that he heavily influenced her attitudes because she was my girlfriend and I talked to her about it. I'm sure that her home would have been just as "broken" if he'd been bringing women home instead of men. (And don't tell me it wasn't a broken home because he was just "experimenting with his sexuality" or something.) But that doesn't change the fact that the guy was a prick with no morals. He doesn't deserve immunity from criticism because he was gay. Idealism won't change my opinion of something I witnessed firsthand almost 20 years ago. |
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Adnan_le_Terrible
* Dog in the Sand *
France
1973 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2004 : 18:13:39
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One more thing. About the adoption of children by gay couples - I agree that it is less biologically "natural" than straight couples having a child. But is being an orphan natural? These kids who are adopted, they don't have parents.
I keep feeling like people are just looking at screens and web sites all the time, but do they ever do anything? Or go out and say anything to anyone? I'm not so sure anymore. |
Edited by - Adnan_le_Terrible on 05/23/2004 18:52:54 |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2004 : 18:20:39
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quote:
Originally posted by BLT
When did I say that her being a dyke is bad? Nor did I say I was against gay marriage. I told a true story about a gay person who was an insensitive asshole. The reason I told this story is because, in reading this thread, I got the impression that some people think everything would be just peachy with gay marriage or gay parents if only the rest of this cruel world could only be tolerant of them.
And I know that he heavily influenced her attitudes because she was my girlfriend and I talked to her about it. I'm sure that her home would have been just as "broken" if he'd been bringing women home instead of men. (And don't tell me it wasn't a broken home because he was just "experimenting with his sexuality" or something.) But that doesn't change the fact that the guy was a prick with no morals. He doesn't deserve immunity from criticism because he was gay. Idealism won't change my opinion of something I witnessed firsthand almost 20 years ago.
i don't think anyone would argue that he deserves immunity becauase he's gay. like you said, he's a prick. that has nothing to do with him being gay.
i'm just curious what her becoming a lesbian has to do with anything. by bringing it up, in the context of everything else you said, it seems like you're implying that that was one more thing that went wrong because she had a gay parent.
i'm curious about something.. how soon after dating you did she decide to become a lesbian? :) |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2004 : 18:31:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Cult_Of_Frank
So all he's trying to 'prove' is that there's it's not all perfect on the other side, which I find it hard to believe anyone could take exception with. Don't be so defensive!
but no one was arguing that it was perfect on the "other" side.
quote:
On an unrelated note, not being against it (i.e. being tolerant) doesn't necessarily mean you are all for it.
i think this is part of the problem too. not that everyone should be all for it, and hoping their kids turn out gay or something. .
but i just find that so many people say they don't have anything against it, but really they do. like my sisters in-laws. they'll say, "it doesn't bother me, they can do what they want' on one hand.. but then make comments about how they're "freaks" and "sick people" etc. |
Edited by - floop on 05/23/2004 18:35:45 |
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ramona
"FB Quote Mistress"
USA
3988 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2004 : 19:58:41
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BLT, you never said being gay is bad, that is absolutely true. But when you said she "became a dyke" - it just sounded like you were saying that was a negative thing. Sorry if I misperceived you.
Again, I never said being raised by a gay parent was perfect and I don't think anyone else here did either. I think (or I HOPE) we are all grown up enough to realize that there are pros and cons to every situation. Again, life is what you make it - but I STILL think if you have a foundation of two people who want you (and I think what we STARTED talking about was two gay parents adopting kids, not someone who is just figuring out that they are gay and dealing with that in a shitty way like your friends dad) and will raise you in a stable environment is a GOOD THING. No matter WHO those two people are. That is pretty much the only point I've been trying to make.
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there's fire if you want it, let me know. I'm sick and tired of letting go... |
Edited by - ramona on 05/23/2004 19:59:57 |
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Slick
- FB Fan -
23 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2004 : 20:13:03
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| Most gay people were molested as children/teens. |
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Topic |
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Gay Marriage? What do you think?
