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Erebus
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1834 Posts |
 Posted - 03/12/2004 : 15:43:49
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http://www.naplesnews.com/npdn/pe_columnists/article/0,2071,NPDN_14960_2701728,00.html
Naples Daily News
Morton Kondracke: Dems lead in '04 smear campaign
By MORTON KONDRACKE, Newspaper Enterprise Association
March 4, 2004
[excerpted]
It's conventional wisdom now that this may be one of the nastiest presidential campaigns ever. But those keeping score should observe that, right now, the muddy epithets thrown at President Bush outweigh those thrown at Democrats by tons.
That's not the way things are being reported, though. The media seem to be uncritically accepting the Democratic charge that any criticism of Sen. John Kerry's, D-Mass., public record is "sliming" or "smearing."
But for months now, Democrats have accused Bush of being a "liar" who "misled" or "deceived" the nation into the Iraq war; a "usurper" who "stole" the 2000 election in Florida; "a right-wing extremist" on tax, social and foreign policy; and a "menace to the nation's basic liberties," owing to his employment of Attorney General John Ashcroft.
Former Vice President Al Gore said Bush had "betrayed" the country in Iraq. No major Democrat said afterward that Gore had gone too far.
Democrats claim that Republicans either have questioned or will question their patriotism in this campaign, but actually the only accusations of lacking patriotism have come from Democrats.
Sen. Bob Graham, D-Fla., when he was a candidate, said that Bush's Iraq policy was "anti-patriotic at the core." Last September, Kerry said that Bush "lives out a creed of greed for he and his friends" and that it was "unpatriotic" for Bush's "friends" (i.e., corporate executives) to move jobs offshore. It was a regular staple of retired Gen. Wesley Clark's campaign to say that Bush's policies were "not patriotic."
Howard Dean, when he was a candidate, charged that Ashcroft "is no patriot. He's a direct descendant of Joseph McCarthy." [snip]
On the other hand, the Bush campaign has every right to raise doubts about Kerry's record and programs, including on defense issues. And the media ought to cry foul when the Kerry campaign tries to put such discussion off limits.
Kerry spokeswoman Stephanie Cutter, for instance, said about criticism of Kerry's defense record: "These attacks and smears against us are just one more example of the fundamental need to change the direction of the nation from Bush's extreme agenda."
Kerry said in mid-February that "given the record of this administration and their stunning lack of vision, the Republican attack machine may well have no choice but to resort to smear and fear."
In a public letter to Bush last Saturday, Kerry implied that Bush was questioning his Vietnam service and said "it has been hard to believe that you would choose to reopen these wounds for your personal political gain."
In fact, the Bush campaign and the GOP have acknowledged time and again that Kerry was a war hero and is due honor for his service, but that his record on defense and foreign policy is open to criticism.
Indeed, it is. Kerry is on record as opposing the MX missile, the B-1 bomber, the Tomahawk missile, the Apache helicopter, the Patriot missile, the Harrier jet and the F-15 fighter aircraft and has called for deep cuts in the intelligence budget. [snip]
Education Secretary Rod Paige referred to the National Education Association as a "terrorist organization" — clearly it was hyperbole, not a real accusation — and was carpet-bombed into an abject apology.
Besides that, no Republican of any stature has yet thrown what could even remotely be described as a low blow. If that changes, I'll scream. But so far, if anyone's "sliming," it's Democrats. And the media should call them on it.
Morton Kondracke is executive editor of Roll Call, the newspaper of Capitol Hill.
Copyright 2004, Naples Daily News. All Rights Reserved.
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2004 : 15:50:30
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| Are we really going to do this for 8 months? Should I post reactions to the first Bush ads? First ad: upsets firemen and families of the 9/11 victims. Second Ad: upsets Arab Americans. I hope the Republicans keep spending their $200 million so effectively. |
Edited by - darwin on 03/12/2004 15:53:01 |
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El Barto
= Song DB Master =
USA
4020 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2004 : 16:00:39
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Give me a fucking break. I just read on Yahoo! last night that Bush was the first to release a negative ad about the democrats...fucking give me a break.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/ap/20040312/ap_on_el_pr/bush_ads
Who really gives a fuck. Who needs this back and forth bullshit. Who needs this "who threw the first stone shit." What's fact is that Bush is a horrible piece of shit and should be dragged out of the White House, ASAP. Oh, and it's not that it's a smear campaign, I'd say it's more like a truth campaign.
 "Join the Cult of Brit / And let your oral hygiene go out the window." |
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Erebus
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1834 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2004 : 16:18:25
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Here're a few things you should know about the "upset" families. That whole reaction to the Bush ad references to 9/11 was staged. The Dems knew Bush would run on it and had all their partisan ducks lined up to make sure the media lapped up their "outrage". And the media is totally in on the deception. Expect more of the same, from both the Dems and their media lapdogs.
"Let me show you a little evidence that'll back-up what I'm saying. I went through an AP article entitled 9/11 Victims' Kin Angered by Bush Ads that features 9/11 relatives who are "outraged" over Bush's ads and I googled every person who had an angry reaction. Interestingly enough, 5 out of the 6 people interviewed had an ax to grind with George Bush. The people who trashed Bush in this one are...
-- Coleen Kelly who is a member of an anti-war group called "Peaceful Tomorrows" & spoke at an anti-war rally with Susan Sarandon.
-- Jeff Zack & Harold Schaitberger are the spokesman and president of the International Association of Fire Fighters Union who "gave Kerry an early endorsement in the presidential race".
-- I found no previous attacks on Bush by Barbara Minervino who "questioned whether Bush was "capitalizing on the event"'.
-- Like Colleen Kelly, David Potorti is part of an anti-war group called Peaceful Tomorrows. Here's a quote from an interview he did at Buzzflash back in October of 2003,
"I feel like the foreign policy of the Bush Administration is almost like a second assault on us. We had this terrorist attack and now it's almost like we have this other attack from our own government which is doing things which clearly are not in our interests, and clearly are not reducing the chances of another terrorist attack happening again. Sometimes I feel quite assaulted from all quarters. And it's just a very odd place to be -- to feel like your own government is not operating in your best interest."
-- Kristen Breitweiser has been claiming for quite a while that the Bush administration is covering up/refusing to investigate 9/11. Read more about it in this 2003 article called "Four 9/11 Moms Battle Bush" -- and yes, Breitweiser is one of the moms battling Bush.
Come on folks, this article is a joke! We don't have any polling data, we don't know how the reporters chose these people to quote, we don't know how many pro-Bush quotes weren't included, all we have are 5 out of 6 people who the reporters MUST HAVE KNOWN were going to trash Bush before they even talked to them.
This piece is liberal bias at its worst and if AP had any integrity, they'd issue a public apology for putting out this sort of slanted bilge.
***Update #1***: The plot thickens! It seems that one of the people criticizing Bush in this article has actually campaigned for Kerry. From "Schaitberger Stumps for Kerry"...
"After Kerry’s surprise victory in Iowa, IAFF General President Harold Schaitberger spent the last week in New Hampshire on the campaign trail helping to keep Kerry’s momentum going.
"I spent a week here in New Hampshire because John Kerry represents our future. In my thirty plus years on the line, no Presidential candidate has ever embraced the fire service and the IAFF like John Kerry. He is our Real Deal," said General President Schaitberger.
...As co-chair of the Kerry for President campaign and President of the first union to endorse John Kerry, Schaitberger’s visit generated significant press coverage.
So they're quoting a "co-chair of the Kerry for President campaign" in the article without even telling their readers about it? Could AP be any more deceptive?
Hat tip to Little Green Footballs for finding this.
***Update #2***: This just keeps getting better and better. Apparently Peaceful Tomorrows has received millions not only from US taxpayers -- which is mind-blowing in and of itself -- but it has also received "4.3 million...from the Howard Heinz Endowment". Boy, it's funny how that worked out isn't it?"
That's "Heinz" as in Mrs. Kerry.
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Cheeseman1000
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Iceland
8201 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2004 : 16:28:14
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I think this is fair proof that all politicians are slime.
 "Join the cult of scone/And succumb to the power of the cream tea" |
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ramona
"FB Quote Mistress"
USA
3988 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2004 : 18:26:26
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I was going to post a response more than this, but it will just cause fights and make me annoyed. So, carry on. I won't be reading this topic again, if anyone cares.
Which I am sure you don't. 
**************************************************
"The problem with her and I is that, you know the song Pretty Woman? I prefer the Roy Orbison version and she prefers the Van Halen version, and this has been the source of our pain." - Frank Black, on his divorce |
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speedy_m
= Frankofile =
Canada
3581 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2004 : 19:19:15
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| It seems the only people who think there are major differences between Demorcrats and Republicans, both in what they beleive and how they conduct their affairs, are Democrats and Republicans. Keep fighting the good fight, Erebus! If you won't defend poor George W., who will? |
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El Barto
= Song DB Master =
USA
4020 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2004 : 19:35:40
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Wow! That's some amazing detective work, Erebus! You found out that people who dislike Bush have something bad to say about him. Bravo. EREBUS FOR PRESIDENT.
"Join the Cult of Brit / And let your oral hygiene go out the window." |
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ObfuscateByWill
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1887 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2004 : 03:11:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Erebus
Indeed, it is. Kerry is on record as opposing the MX missile, the B-1 bomber, the Tomahawk missile, the Apache helicopter, the Patriot missile, the Harrier jet and the F-15 fighter aircraft and has called for deep cuts in the intelligence budget. [snip]
Ok.
So.. he opposes death from afar, death from above, death from afar, death from above, death from afar, death from above and death from above.
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I have a co-worker who has just recently returned from serving 11 months in Iraq. He was part of a ground crew assigned to either a single helicopter of a group of helicopters.
He will often brag about how many iraqis his pilots killed.
His unit made some sort-of promotional videos that they gave to the guys when they were returning home. Great stuff.
Lots of explosions. Lots of smiling soldiers standing next to destroyed homes. Lots of men shooting off into the distance, pausing for a moment, then turning to one of their comrades and giving a big thumbs up.
Soundtrack by Slayer, Drowning Pool and, of course, AC/DC.
*Another pointless post. |
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GoddessTheory
= Cult of Ray =
USA
675 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2004 : 07:26:46
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| I know we can subscribe to topics and all that but is there an alert or a message we can get when Erebus decides to post something that's not going to start a fight to be "controversial"? |
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Erebus
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1834 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2004 : 08:07:27
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quote:
Originally posted by speedy_m
It seems the only people who think there are major differences between Demorcrats and Republicans, both in what they beleive and how they conduct their affairs, are Democrats and Republicans. Keep fighting the good fight, Erebus! If you won't defend poor George W., who will?
Just wanted to note that the purpose of the posts was to alert all to ongoing media bias, without which the Dems would be of little consequence. Point taken regarding lack of difference between Dems and Repubs, with the exception of execution of foreign policy. |
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Erebus
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1834 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2004 : 08:10:29
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quote:
Originally posted by GoddessTheory
I know we can subscribe to topics and all that but is there an alert or a message we can get when Erebus decides to post something that's not going to start a fight to be "controversial"?
Given the frequency of arational slams of Bush and the Republicans, this comment is laughable. Those who speak with one voice, and march to one beat, should welcome controversy. "Don't surround yourself with yourself. Move on back two squares" |
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benji
> Teenager of the Year <
New Zealand
3426 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2004 : 08:10:47
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why has the media turned on Bush?
they were once his bed-buddies, but from what erebus is saying, they've turned on him...
why, when he had them eating out of hand for the last few years?
 "I joined the Cult of Frank / I think that man deserves a DB!" |
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amor es revenge
- FB Fan -
31 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2004 : 09:48:37
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because he's sleazy, and they're starting to realize it...finally
no signature- I can't write so well |
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Erebus
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1834 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2004 : 10:02:51
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http://www.thehill.com/news/031104/kerry.aspx
Conservation group under fire for Kerry endorsement
By Sam Dealey
With the League of Conservation Voters’ (LCV) endorsement of Sen. John Kerry (D-Mass.) for president, Republicans are again crying foul over the role played by philanthropist Teresa Heinz Kerry in her husband’s presidential run.
Since 2000, Heinz and foundations she influences have given nearly $1 million to the LCV, members of its board and the groups those board members represent.
“This demonstrates again the cozy relationship between these groups and Democratic candidates, and why the process needs to be transparent,” said Christine Iverson, spokeswoman for the Republican National Committee. “After years of these groups trying to pass themselves off as nonpartisan, third-party organizations, it’s now become clear that they’re essentially working for the Democratic Party, and in this case John Kerry.”
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amor es revenge
- FB Fan -
31 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2004 : 10:08:36
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this is absolutely no different from how W. used Enron money and private planes to woo the Supreme Court justices during the whole Election debacle....don't try to act like both sides dont do this sort of thing, erebus
no signature- I can't write so well |
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realmeanmotorscutor
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1764 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2004 : 10:15:09
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quote:
Originally posted by El Barto
Wow! That's some amazing detective work, Erebus! You found out that people who dislike Bush have something bad to say about him. Bravo. EREBUS FOR PRESIDENT.
"Join the Cult of Brit / And let your oral hygiene go out the window."
This really deserves to be repeated. Erebus, it's not like they have a personal vendetta against Bush. Bush didn't sleep with their spouses, you klnow? They oppose what he stands for. So, what you GD point? As far as I can tell you've never had any firm argument on this board.
 "I joined the Cult of Popeye / The CoF required my good eye" |
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Erebus
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1834 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2004 : 10:34:04
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quote:
Originally posted by realmeanmotorscutor
quote:
Originally posted by El Barto
Wow! That's some amazing detective work, Erebus! You found out that people who dislike Bush have something bad to say about him. Bravo. EREBUS FOR PRESIDENT.
So, what you GD point? As far as I can tell you've never had any firm argument on this board.
Don't understand this last part. What do you mean? Thanks. |
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Erebus
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1834 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2004 : 10:38:58
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quote:
Originally posted by amor es revenge
this is absolutely no different from how W. used Enron money and private planes to woo the Supreme Court justices during the whole Election debacle....don't try to act like both sides dont do this sort of thing, erebus
Assuming you're correct to compare the two, the difference is in the way the mainstream media will cover them. The moronic "undecided" voters will hear all about Bush's apparent shortcomings and little about the many transgressions of Kerry and his campaign. And please don't resort to alleging that the press was tough on Clinton. Remember Jaunita Broaddrick! |
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amor es revenge
- FB Fan -
31 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2004 : 11:10:17
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I had no intention of bringing up Clinton. There's no need.
Bush has been doing quite a bit of "smearing" himself. Don't forget about all the criticism of Kerry (a Vietnam vet) coming back from the war and protesting our actions there. In my opinion, who has more right to criticize our actions in a war than the people who have actually done the fighting and seen the bullshit?
no signature- I can't write so well |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
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amor es revenge
- FB Fan -
31 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2004 : 12:40:04
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one thing that's interesting about that ad is the "firemen" carrying the coffin draped with an American flag are all actually actors
no signature- I can't write so well |
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Gratefuljason3
- FB Fan -
60 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2004 : 13:51:20
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quote:
55% of responsdants thought the Bush ad showing NYC after 9/11 was inappropriate. 41% thought it was appropriate.
There seems to be a concentrated effort to make us forget what happened on 9/11; why are people so shocked when Bush simply wants to remind us? After all, there are still a shit-load of bloodthirsty terrorists hell-bent on destroying each and every one of us. Madrid or Bali anyone? I don't really agree with Bush on anything, except for his handling of the war on terror. And with the very survival of our wonderful republic at stake, that's just enough to get my vote in '04. |
Edited by - Gratefuljason3 on 03/15/2004 13:55:38 |
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Dallas
= Cult of Ray =
USA
725 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2004 : 15:07:09
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The difference that Kondracke is pointing out (and he is a LIBERAL folks if you didnt know) is that the Dems are using slime. The republicans and Bush have done what can be called 'negative' advertising. But, they are pointing out Kerry's votes and comments from history. No attacks, no "lying, crooked" name calling. That is all coming from the Dems.
That is Kondracke's point. Again, he is an avowed liberal who supported Clinton and then Gore.
Its easier to just attack Erebus rather than consider why a leading Liberal voice would feel this way. |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2004 : 15:18:39
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Where would a person find this ad? I'd like to see it.
And let's keep it sophisticated, folks. Disagree in disbelief and debate all you wish, just try to avoid "using slime" to put it one way. :)
 "Join the Cult of Frank / And you'll be enlightened" |
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Cheeseman1000
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Iceland
8201 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2004 : 15:26:16
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How about using Slimer? I'm sure he'd make a good campaign manager for sure.
 "Join The Cult Of Frank/In Ten Words Or Less" |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2004 : 15:44:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Dallas
The difference that Kondracke is pointing out (and he is a LIBERAL folks if you didnt know) is that the Dems are using slime. The republicans and Bush have done what can be called 'negative' advertising. But, they are pointing out Kerry's votes and comments from history. No attacks, no "lying, crooked" name calling. That is all coming from the Dems.
That is Kondracke's point. Again, he is an avowed liberal who supported Clinton and then Gore.
Its easier to just attack Erebus rather than consider why a leading Liberal voice would feel this way.
First of all Kondracke is not a liberal. I obviously haven't watched everything from him (I rarely watch Fox) but I have seen him on many shows and never have seen him support Clinton or Gore. Fox may like to frame him as a liberal, but that doesn't make him one. Perhaps you can give a link showing him suporting Clinton or Gore or giving a liberal stance.
Next, it so ridiculous that the Republicans are crying foul. Lee Atwater (a Republican strateigist) mastered the art of negative campainging. In the last week there was an article published on the MSNBC web site about how much McCain still dislikes Bush for the personal attacks he unleased on him in South Carolina 4 years ago. Here's a link and a quote:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4506988/
The good ol' boy supporters of the Bush team savaged McCain and his family, spreading vicious rumors about their character and racial makeup. No direct tie to the campaign has been found. But none was needed. The boys didn't have to be told what to do. They knew. They'd done it before, to others.
To me, the conservatives crying foul only shows that they can't take what they can dish out.
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El Barto
= Song DB Master =
USA
4020 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2004 : 18:56:55
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Who cares who is doing what...the question is, do you really want that cunt in the white house for another 4 years. If so, why?
"Join the Cult of Brit / And let your oral hygiene go out the window." |
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Gratefuljason3
- FB Fan -
60 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2004 : 19:27:45
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quote:
do you really want that cunt in the white
That's the kind of slime the article is talking about. It does nothing to further your own cause and simply makes the author appear sophomoric, immature and insincere. If people wish to engage in a dialectic discourse, by all means... But enough with the childish invective. |
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amor es revenge
- FB Fan -
31 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2004 : 06:22:36
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I think he's simply giving his opinion. He feels that Bush is a cunt. "bush" is after all, another word for "cunt".....
no signature- I can't write so well |
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Dallas
= Cult of Ray =
USA
725 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2004 : 07:35:47
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Darwin your post is hilarious. Now liberals who disagree with democrats arent liberal? The man voted for Clinton and Gore. He is a registered Democrat and has been his whole life.
He is a liberal, but, he has a brain and he has eyes. You cant see or grasp the fact that a Liberal can see a gutter-level campaign, even when, SHOCK, it comes from a democrat. That is how ridgid your thinking is. If Kondracke actually believes what he is writing, then "he is not a liberal". Whatever.
Also your riff on McCain/Bush blew itself out of the water. Nothing untoward was done by people who work for Bush or directed by people who work for Bush. As you admit yourself, so, obviously it is a moot point.
Also...this just in...Lee Atwater has been dead for over 10 years...thats right, the boogeyman is dead...it is safe for liberals to come crawling out of their hiding spaces... |
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amor es revenge
- FB Fan -
31 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2004 : 07:52:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Dallas
Darwin your post is hilarious. Now liberals who disagree with democrats arent liberal? The man voted for Clinton and Gore. He is a registered Democrat and has been his whole life.
He is a liberal, but, he has a brain and he has eyes. You cant see or grasp the fact that a Liberal can see a gutter-level campaign, even when, SHOCK, it comes from a democrat. That is how ridgid your thinking is. If Kondracke actually believes what he is writing, then "he is not a liberal". Whatever.
That's not what Darwin said at all. you're twisting his words. And yes, it's very possible for someone to be a non-liberal Democrat, sport.
quote:
Also your riff on McCain/Bush blew itself out of the water. Nothing untoward was done by people who work for Bush or directed by people who work for Bush. As you admit yourself, so, obviously it is a moot point.
You're digging yourself a hole saying nothing untoward was done by people who work for Bush....do you really want to stick with that statement in light of all the strong words that the Bush administration threw around about Iraq's "imminent threat" and their phantom WMD's?
no signature- I can't write so well |
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Dallas
= Cult of Ray =
USA
725 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2004 : 08:33:38
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Another neophyte steps in...
Uhhhh, those of you who actually read newspapers and have a clue can skip this. This is remedial work for amor...
Hans Blix
Kofi Annan
Jacque Chirac
V Putin
Albert Gore
Bill Clinton
John F. Kerry
Tony Blair
GW Bush
and more and more
That is just a partial list of people who claimed that Iraq had WMD's right up until the Liberation. Blix was quoted as saying that he thought there were 100's of gallons of anthrax in Iraq days before the liberation began.
You've got it! It was a new world order conspiracy taking place over a decade so that GW Bush could invade Iraq.
If Bush lied they all lied. For a decade. Do you even think through your propaganda? If Bush is a liar, what are all these other people?
Think it through, you can do it, keep at it, your so close, aww forget it. |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2004 : 09:35:01
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Dallas you haven't given me anything to show me that Kondracke is a liberal, just your opinion. Perhaps you can provide some proof of him being a registered Democrat or voting for Gore or Clinton. In my opinion, he's the closest thing to a liberal that Fox News can stand, but that doesn't make him a liberal.
The liberals are out and now their fighting rough like the Republicans have been doing for the past 15 years. And, so far it's working. |
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amor es revenge
- FB Fan -
31 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2004 : 09:36:37
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paty close attention, dallas, you may learn something. Let's take Clinton for example. He never used his supposed belief that Iraq had WMD's to invade the country in order to boost his approval ratings due to him making a fool out of himself (as Bush had with his statements that we would not stop until we had captured Osama dead or alive....and we still haven't). Clinton also didn't earn us the scorn and disdain of the entire U.N. as your buddy bush did. I'd say that makes it a slightly different level of sleaziness.
no signature- I can't write so well |
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GoddessTheory
= Cult of Ray =
USA
675 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2004 : 09:38:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Dallas
Another neophyte steps in...
Think it through, you can do it, keep at it, your so close, aww forget it.
Dallas, can you make a valid point without resorting to being a smart ass about it, or is that all part of the fun of your superiority complex? |
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Topic |
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Dems Lead in '04 Smear Campaign
