| Author |
 Topic  |
|
darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
|
|
amor es revenge
- FB Fan -
31 Posts |
 Posted - 03/16/2004 : 09:45:33
|
actually, he was being a dumbass, because I was posting on this topic before he was, yet he thinks I"m just jumping into the debate. He obviously only read the last post before his and thought he knew what the hell was going on
no signature- I can't write so well |
 |
|
|
Dallas
= Cult of Ray =
USA
725 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2004 : 10:25:17
|
Darwin, you win, the guy says he is a liberal, votes for every liberal he can when he gets the chance, has been active in progressive and democratic politics since he was a kid, was married to a labor activist and on and on. Its hilarious that this guy has been active in Washington for DECADES as a liberal commentator (16 years speaking from the left on PBS) but as soon as he calls a pig a pig, he has no credentials. Another attempt at creating a false-reality. Forget the decades this guy has under his belt, his votes, his activism, YOU know better. whatever.
Amor you have more opinions than knowledge. Sorry if that comes off as superior, but, you either dont understand the facts or you choose to ignore them. Note that you haven't/can't refute my post. It isnt GWB's lie. It is EVERY leader in the free worlds lie over the last decade. Why did they all lie? To further GWB's evil plan to liberate millions of suffering Iraqi's? Scorn of the UN? France/Germany/Russia were bought and paid for by Saddams oil money. Those countries were playing what is called an Oil for lives game. They got oil and Saddam got to kill/rape/maim/oppress any Iraqi's he saw fit. That my friend is what you call 'good scorn', give me some more of it actually.
I have no idea why or if McCain is mad at GWB. I could care less also. |
|
|
|
amor es revenge
- FB Fan -
31 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2004 : 10:29:38
|
the Oil for Lives game is exactly what we did in Iraq, dal. Keep in mind, we gave the Hussein's Iraqi's money, weapons, training in the 80's.....and no, what you said didn't come off as superior. It came off as ignorant
no signature- I can't write so well |
|
|
|
darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2004 : 10:35:35
|
quote:
Originally posted by Dallas
Darwin, you win, the guy says he is a liberal, votes for every liberal he can when he gets the chance, has been active in progressive and democratic politics since he was a kid, was married to a labor activist and on and on. Its hilarious that this guy has been active in Washington for DECADES as a liberal commentator (16 years speaking from the left on PBS) but as soon as he calls a pig a pig, he has no credentials. Another attempt at creating a false-reality. Forget the decades this guy has under his belt, his votes, his activism, YOU know better. whatever.
I guess you can't find any proof for your claims (registered Democrat, voted for Gore and Clinton). Sorry, your word ain't enough. |
Edited by - darwin on 03/16/2004 10:37:04 |
|
|
|
Dallas
= Cult of Ray =
USA
725 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2004 : 10:56:52
|
Darwin, where is your intellect? Send the guy an email and ask him those questions if you want. I havent given you my word on anything, I just passed along Kondrackes own statements about his life. He is a writer, someone with even a bit of intellectual curiousity would do a little reading themselves before making factually inaccurate statements about the guy.
This is funny BTW. Anyone with even a passing knowledge of Kondracke knows exactly where he stands in the political spectrum. Your continued posts on this subject shows how willing you are to opine on something you have absolutely no knowledge of. Prove it to you? What a joke, you haven't even familiarized yourself with the guy or his writings. |
|
|
|
darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2004 : 11:22:45
|
quote:
Originally posted by Dallas
Darwin, where is your intellect? Send the guy an email and ask him those questions if you want. I havent given you my word on anything, I just passed along Kondrackes own statements about his life. He is a writer, someone with even a bit of intellectual curiousity would do a little reading themselves before making factually inaccurate statements about the guy.
This is funny BTW. Anyone with even a passing knowledge of Kondracke knows exactly where he stands in the political spectrum. Your continued posts on this subject shows how willing you are to opine on something you have absolutely no knowledge of. Prove it to you? What a joke, you haven't even familiarized yourself with the guy or his writings.
How about supporting your claims? You haven't passed on anything. "I just passed along Kondrackes own statements about his life." Where is this? I haven't seen you send this.
I have done some research (with google) and when I put search for Kondracke and liberal all I find is people questioning whether the guy is really a liberal. You've stated "facts" about the guy that you think prove he's a liberal. I've asked you to support those "facts". You apparently refuse to. So, why should I believe them. The whole point is that this LIBERAL says Kerry is playing dirty. Well, proving that the guy is LIBERAL seems to pretty important for the argument. Whether you want to support your argument is obviously up to you. I have seen Kondracke (I waste too much time watching political shows) and the guy doesn't seem like a liberal too me.
Also: I think I've been fairly civil in this thread. I don't agree with you or with Erebus, but I haven't insulted you or questioned your intellect. I've seen you in action before. You insult and try to bully people and then you occassionally pull back and issue an apology. But, the next time a political thread comes up again, you are back to your rude and condescending behavior. You are always using the ploy of discounting other's opinions with phrases like "what a joke", "it's funny", "your posting is ridiculous". But, I won't call you names or imply that you're stupid. That's in your playbook. |
|
|
|
Dallas
= Cult of Ray =
USA
725 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2004 : 11:41:10
|
Darwin, your first post stated: "First of all Kondracke is not a liberal. I obviously haven't watched everything from him (I rarely watch Fox) but I have seen him on many shows and never have seen him support Clinton or Gore."
The guy has stated multiple times on television that he voted for Clinton twice and Gore in 2000. I KNOW that because I saw it. So I know that you are misrepresenting Kondracke from the jump. I also know he is a self-described liberal. I know who his wife was and her politics. I've watched and read him excoriate conservatives. He is also tough on Democrats or any politician who is operating in bad faith. So, forgive me for being incredulous.
Also, this subject is funny to me. Trying to convince you that Kondracke is a liberal, with 'beyond a shadow of a doubt' evidentiary requirements is FUNNY. It gets funnier the more it continues. That isn't a debate technique it is a reaction to something I find humorous.
Also, I hope you saved up enough venom to lecture amor for calling me a dumbass. That must have savaged your sense of fair play and comradery. Or is your dismay at the tenor of my post just another political statement? |
|
|
|
GoddessTheory
= Cult of Ray =
USA
675 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2004 : 11:51:35
|
quote:
Originally posted by GoddessTheory
quote:
Originally posted by Dallas
Another neophyte steps in...
Think it through, you can do it, keep at it, your so close, aww forget it.
Dallas, can you make a valid point without resorting to being a smart ass about it, or is that all part of the fun of your superiority complex?
Maybe you need to reread.
Just because STITCHES (amor, mcmikey) is the way he is doesn't mean you have to resort to that.
As Darwin said, make a point but quit being condescending about it. |
|
|
|
darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2004 : 11:53:32
|
You haven't provided a SINGLE piece of evidence that Kondracke is a liberal. Not one. That's a pretty low level of "evidentiary requirements".
What happens between you and amor is your business. I've been civil to you. You've questioned my intellect. I will now try to steer clear of participating in "discussions" with you. I know you probably don't care. I'm just stating my plans. |
Edited by - darwin on 03/16/2004 12:02:33 |
|
|
|
Dallas
= Cult of Ray =
USA
725 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2004 : 12:05:01
|
Sorry Goddess theory but I won't be censored. I'll post/write however I want to. There is nothing in this thread I would apologize for.
Maybe you should find another cause. |
|
|
|
GoddessTheory
= Cult of Ray =
USA
675 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2004 : 12:13:31
|
Dallas no one said anything about censoring so you can't play that tune.
Obviously you have no intention of even trying to understand the point. You will continue being a condescending jerk instead of just getting your point across in a civilized manner. Say what you want, be a republican jesus freak for all I care, just don't be rude about it was the point.
Sorry tough guy. I almost forgot how tough you were. |
|
|
|
Erebus
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1834 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2004 : 12:30:08
|
quote:
Originally posted by darwin
You haven't provided a SINGLE piece of evidence that Kondracke is a liberal. Not one. That's a pretty low level of "evidentiary requirements".
Based upon years of watching him, especially on the McLachlan Group, I agree with Dallas's characterization of Kondracke. But I could not find any "proof" in the courtesy bios I found via google. His history with Newsweek, New Republic, and NPR is suggestive but hardly conclusive. I have long thought of him as a sane lefty that I would expect to have voted for Clinton and Gore. |
|
|
|
Dallas
= Cult of Ray =
USA
725 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2004 : 12:30:36
|
Goddess - Thanks for the object lesson in hypocrisy. Your post is full of name calling and a complete lack of civility. Plus the condascending attitude about what YOU think is acceptable discourse.
Physician, heal thyself.
Seriously, you really didnt notice that you were being a complete hypocrit in your attack post? |
Edited by - Dallas on 03/16/2004 12:31:36 |
|
|
|
GoddessTheory
= Cult of Ray =
USA
675 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2004 : 12:46:11
|
Yeah I noticed.
Because I knew you'd comment on it. You can see it in other's posts but not in your own.
Thanks for proving my point. |
|
|
|
Dallas
= Cult of Ray =
USA
725 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2004 : 12:51:42
|
| You are right, I can see hypocrisy from a mile away...again, before casting stones about who is a namecaller or condascending or just plain rude, perhaps you should step out of your glass house... |
|
|
|
Erebus
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1834 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2004 : 13:02:37
|
Nagourney Buries the Lede Again
This time it's in Paragraph #8.
By Mickey Kaus
Updated Monday, March 15, 2004, at 12:18 PM PT
http://slate.msn.com/id/2096850/
Nagourney buries the lede again: Isn't the news in the latest CBS/New York Times poll that it shows Bush inching ahead--that the current (pre-Spanish election) campaign dynamic, including Bush's advertising launch, has been working at least slightly in the President's favor? A month ago CBS had Kerry over Bush by five percent, but in the new poll Bush leads Kerry 46 to 43 even without Nader. The NYT's Nagourney and Elder comically don't get around to imparting this information until paragraph #8, choosing instead to emphasize the anti-incumbent suggestion that "Bush and Kerry enter the general election at a time of growing concern among Americans that the nation is veering in the wrong direction." That puts the lede two paragraphs lower down than readers found it in the days before the 2002 midterms, when Nagourney buried the big news (that the Republicans were surging) in paragraph 6. Who's going in the wrong direction? ... Note: Rasmussen's tracking crack shows no pro-Bush trend. But Nagourney wasn't reporting on the Rasmussen poll. ... 6:36 A.M.
|
|
|
|
El Barto
= Song DB Master =
USA
4020 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2004 : 13:06:47
|
You know what, we're on page 2 and I can't help but notice that Dallas and Erebus have not given a reason why Bush should be reelected for another 4 years.
 "Join the Cult of Brit / And let your oral hygiene go out the window." |
|
|
|
GoddessTheory
= Cult of Ray =
USA
675 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2004 : 13:12:00
|
quote:
Originally posted by El Barto
You know what, we're on page 2 and I can't help but notice that Dallas and Erebus have not given a reason why Bush should be reelected for another 4 years.
"Join the Cult of Brit / And let your oral hygiene go out the window."
You never will. It will all be grand-standing and macho posturing far as I can see. |
|
|
|
Dallas
= Cult of Ray =
USA
725 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2004 : 13:22:20
|
| That was rude Goddess. Also condascending. |
|
|
|
Erebus
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1834 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2004 : 13:35:15
|
quote:
Originally posted by El Barto
You know what, we're on page 2 and I can't help but notice that Dallas and Erebus have not given a reason why Bush should be reelected for another 4 years.
I'm on the run right now but you deserve at least a brief reply. First, on domestic issues, though the Repubs are to the left of where the Dems were twenty-five years ago, they at least offer the possibility of a slower rate of descent into the morass of runaway social welfare spending. Second, Bush has the important things right on national security, whereas it is the "optimism" and appeasement from the Dems which permits the rise of those who would oppose us and the global will to freedom. Yes, that's a quick and dirty draft, but that's why I would say the USA would be better off were Bush to be reelected. |
|
|
|
GoddessTheory
= Cult of Ray =
USA
675 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2004 : 14:18:49
|
Rumsfeld Caught Lying, Yet Again, On "Face the Nation." But This Time, a Journalist Actually Threw It In His Face.
This excerpt in which Rumsfeld is caught in a brazen lie by Bob Schieffer of CBS from "Face the Nation":
SCHIEFFER: Well, let me just ask you this. If they did not have these weapons of mass destruction, though, granted all of that is true, why then did they pose an immediate threat to us, to this country?
Sec. RUMSFELD: Well, you're the--you and a few other critics are the only people I've heard use the phrase `immediate threat.' I didn't. The president didn't. And it's become kind of folklore that that's--that's what's happened. The president went...
SCHIEFFER: You're saying that nobody in the administration said that.
Sec. RUMSFELD: I--I can't speak for nobody--everybody in the administration and say nobody said that.
SCHIEFFER: Vice president didn't say that? The...
Sec. RUMSFELD: Not--if--if you have any citations, I'd like to see 'em.
Mr. FRIEDMAN: We have one here. It says `some have argued that the nu'--this is you speaking--`that the nuclear threat from Iraq is not imminent, that Saddam is at least five to seven years away from having nuclear weapons. I would not be so certain.'
Sec. RUMSFELD: And--and...
Mr. FRIEDMAN: It was close to imminent.
Sec. RUMSFELD: Well, I've--I've tried to be precise, and I've tried to be accurate. I'm s--suppose I've...
Mr. FRIEDMAN: `No terrorist state poses a greater or more immediate threat to the security of our people and the stability of the world and the regime of Saddam Hussein in Iraq.'
Sec. RUMSFELD: Mm-hmm. It--my view of--of the situation was that he--he had--we--we believe, the best intelligence that we had and other countries had and that--that we believed and we still do not know--we will know.
|
|
|
|
Gratefuljason3
- FB Fan -
60 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2004 : 14:37:51
|
GoddessTheory,
Last year, only a few short months before the war in March, The United Nation's Children's Commission estimated that, "4400-4800 Iraqi children are dying every month as a result of diseases which are easily treatable, malnutrition, or of starvation outright." Source: www.unicef.org
Perhaps you can enlighten us as to why we should have continued to appease Saddam while so many children were dying?
At 4,500 per month, we have saved over 60,000 lives through this military action. WMD or not. |
Edited by - Gratefuljason3 on 03/16/2004 14:42:13 |
|
|
|
Erebus
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1834 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2004 : 14:40:29
|
| Considering what Dems defended during the Clinton years, that excerpt involves as much lying as 2+2=4. Pretty weak GT. |
|
|
|
Gratefuljason3
- FB Fan -
60 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2004 : 14:52:23
|
This is all the justification for war anyone needs:
UK Guardian: "Over 300,000 Uncovered In Saddam's Mass Graves"
Saturday November 8, 2003 7:46 PM
By BASSEM MROUE and NIKO PRICE
Associated Press Writers
BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) - Saddam Hussein's government is believed to have buried as many as 300,000 opponents in 263 mass graves that dot the Iraqi landscape, the top human rights official in the U.S.-led civilian administration said Saturday.
Sandy Hodgkinson said the administration has been sending forensic teams to investigate those grave sites reported to U.S. officials. So far, the existence of about 40 graves has been confirmed.
``We have found mass graves with women and children with bullet holes in their heads,'' she said.
President Bush has referred to Iraqi mass graves frequently in recent months, saying they provide evidence that the war to drive Saddam from power was justified.
But some human rights activists have criticized the U.S.-led administration in Iraq for moving too slowly to protect grave sites and begin excavations, and have expressed skepticism that it will ever fully identify who is buried in the mass graves.
``There is just no way - technologically, financially - that they're going to deal with mass graves on this magnitude,'' said Susannah Sirkin of Physicians for Human Rights in Boston.
The U.S.-led administration held a workshop Saturday to train dozens of Iraqis to find and protect the mass grave sites. Hodgkinson said the workers would be crucial in protecting the sites from desperate relatives trying to dig for evidence of their missing loved ones.
In the weeks after the U.S.-led war drove Saddam from power, relatives damaged some grave sites, using bulldozers that mangled bodies and scattering papers and clothing that could have been used to identify remains.
The largest mass grave discovered so far, a site near the southern town of Mahaweel believed to hold at least 3,115 bodies, was damaged by relatives searching for remains. But officials say most of the mass graves haven't been disturbed.
Mass graves ``tell the story of missing loved ones such as where, when and how they were killed,'' Hodgkinson said. ``Truth and proper burial is the first step toward reconciliation.''
Iraqi Human Rights Minister Abdul-Basit Turki said that in addition to families' need to find the bodies of missing relatives, excavating mass graves is important in building criminal cases against members of the former regime.
International tribunals handle prosecutions for atrocities in the former Yugoslavia, where tens of thousands of missing are believed buried in mass graves, and Rwanda, in which many of the 500,000 victims of a 100-day killing spree in 1994 were buried in communal pits.
But for Iraq, the United States has insisted any trials be conducted by a new Iraqi legal system that is still being developed.
Neither Iraq nor the United States are signatories to the International Criminal Court and it would take a vote of the U.N. Security Council to create a special tribunal for Iraq, which is considered unlikely.
Many human rights groups agree that Iraqis should lead the legal process, but say international participation is crucial for it to be legitimate and impartial. Some have been hesitant to participate in excavations before the legal system is in place.
``Mass graves really can corroborate witness testimony and documents which show what happened in a crime,'' Hodgkinson said, although she cautioned: ``a mass grave by itself won't tell you who did it.''
Hodgkinson said the majority of people buried in the mass graves are believed to be Kurds killed by Saddam in the 1980s after rebelling against the government and Shiites killed after an uprising following the 1991 Gulf War.
Hodgkinson said the investigation process would be similar to that used in Bosnia after its 1992-95 war. But she cautioned that if Bosnia is any indication, the process in Iraq will be long and complicated.
In Bosnia, she said, it has taken nine years to unearth 8,000 of the 30,000 bodies believed buried in mass graves.
Human rights activists say U.S. authorities in Iraq have been much slower to address the problem than were authorities in Bosnia. In Bosnia, said Sam Zia-Zarifi of Human Rights Watch, ``within the first year there were 25 teams in and a (U.N.) tribunal in place.''
In Iraq, some international teams that were hoping to begin their work before winter have delayed their arrival because of violence, including the bombing of the U.N. headquarters in Baghdad.
At a donor conference last month, more than $100 million was requested for uncovering mass graves. The donations, which are expected to come in the form of equipment and personnel, would be used over five years, Hodgkinson said.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-3364919,00.html
|
|
|
|
VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2004 : 17:41:18
|
quote:
How about using Slimer? I'm sure he'd make a good campaign manager for sure.
But he'd accept money from the Hi-C lobby! They did make Ecto Cooler, after all.
Join the Culf of Buttoms / Correctly spelled cults are so passé. |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
Dems Lead in '04 Smear Campaign
