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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6012 Posts |
 Posted - 10/04/2022 : 23:50:23
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I do think his singing in Pagan Man is hard to listen to
Haunted House too, "way-hey-hey-ey-ey"
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3909 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2022 : 01:16:27
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Funny how different songs resonate with us all in uniquely different ways. You have come across as quite forgiving of FBF's singing Bill as he matures; I mean I recall you saying something recently that you just like anything he does because you like his vocals - or something like that - and here's me praising the vocals on one of his new songs while you're not so keen?
I think the meaning of Doggerel is not refering to the content of the album, but the variation in opinion across each track from the fans. |
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sdon
= Cult of Ray =
France
779 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2022 : 04:14:57
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ok, I've been relistening to all 2.0, including Women of War, Hear Me Out, Mambo Sun, Human Crime...
If I had to pick 2 or 3 tracks from each of these albums to make a 'best of', based on my personal tastes, it would go like this:
- Bag Boy
- Indie Cindy
- What Goes Boom
- Oona
- All the Saints
- Los Surfers Muertos
- Death Horizon
- Nomatterday
- Get Simulated
- Doggerel
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"Aristophanes! (gong sounds)"
"Fucking up my devotion!"
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Edited by - sdon on 10/05/2022 06:43:04 |
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johnnyribcage
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2022 : 05:12:13
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I’m not tracking with the vocal comments. Just sounds like good old FBF to me.
I had a bad reaction to your public hobby writings. |
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Bedbug
> Teenager of the Year <
2965 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2022 : 05:43:45
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quote:
Originally posted by sdon
ok, I've been relistening to all 2.0, including Women of War, Hear Me Out, Mambo Sun, Hear me Out...
If I had to pick 2 or 3 tracks from each of these albums to make a 'best of', based on my personal tastes, it would go like this:
- Bag boy
- Indie Cindy
- What Goes Boom
- Oona
- All the Saints
- Los Surfers Muertos
- Death Horizon
- Nomatterday
- Get Simulated
- Doggerel
--
"Aristophanes! (gong sounds)"
"Fucking up my devotion!"
A lot of my favorites made your list. It’s a fun exercise to take the best of 2.0, jump in a time machine, and imagine how that album would have been received |
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Brank_Flack
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
910 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2022 : 06:17:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Bedbug
quote:
Originally posted by sdon
ok, I've been relistening to all 2.0, including Women of War, Hear Me Out, Mambo Sun, Hear me Out...
If I had to pick 2 or 3 tracks from each of these albums to make a 'best of', based on my personal tastes, it would go like this:
- Bag boy
- Indie Cindy
- What Goes Boom
- Oona
- All the Saints
- Los Surfers Muertos
- Death Horizon
- Nomatterday
- Get Simulated
- Doggerel
--
"Aristophanes! (gong sounds)"
"Fucking up my devotion!"
A lot of my favorites made your list. It’s a fun exercise to take the best of 2.0, jump in a time machine, and imagine how that album would have been received
I think this would make a good thread of its own. I was thinking of starting one, but wanted to wait for Doggerel to settle a bit first. |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6012 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2022 : 06:27:18
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quote:
Originally posted by pot
Funny how different songs resonate with us all in uniquely different ways. You have come across as quite forgiving of FBF's singing Bill as he matures; I mean I recall you saying something recently that you just like anything he does because you like his vocals - or something like that - and here's me praising the vocals on one of his new songs while you're not so keen?
I think the meaning of Doggerel is not refering to the content of the album, but the variation in opinion across each track from the fans.
Haha touché
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
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Troubles A Foot
= Cult of Ray =
USA
818 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2022 : 08:54:39
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quote:
Originally posted by johnnyribcage
I’m not tracking with the vocal comments. Just sounds like good old FBF to me.
Yeah. I read those posts with utter confusion. Like listening to Surfer Rosa and being like "ew, I don't like how he's yelling, and the "ooooooh" notes in Where Is My Mind are too high up, and it's too high when he sings "Gigantic""
I just don't even understand the issue. Seems more like weird Pitchfork-y type of criticism. His voice is what it is. I've been trying to see if I ever had a thought like this about his singing and I can't think of anything. I'm not really a "eh, don't like that, do it again" type of listener when it comes to somebody's singing. |
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Ziggy
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
2411 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2022 : 09:54:14
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quote:
Originally posted by billgoodman
I do think his singing in Pagan Man is hard to listen to
Haunted House too, "way-hey-hey-ey-ey"
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
I really enjoy everything about 'Haunted House', although I get your point re: 'Pagan Man'. Reminds me of some moments on NSE.
Really liked blasting the album out on some very long drives lately. |
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johnnyribcage
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2022 : 10:22:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Ziggy
quote:
Originally posted by billgoodman
I do think his singing in Pagan Man is hard to listen to
Haunted House too, "way-hey-hey-ey-ey"
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
I really enjoy everything about 'Haunted House', although I get your point re: 'Pagan Man'. Reminds me of some moments on NSE.
Really liked blasting the album out on some very long drives lately.
Speaking of NSE, I’m pretty sure the vocal melody in The Lord Has Come Back on the lines “everyone’s invited” and “we are united” are directly lifted from Lake of Sin (behind the green fern / just threw the clean worm). I think there are a few other things pulled from solo songs. Makes sense to me - not many folks have heard a lot of those songs. Pulling some ideas into the Pixies idiom would get more ears on them. Hell, Steve Miller rewrote My Dark Hour into Fly Like an Eagle.
I had a bad reaction to your public hobby writings. |
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Bedbug
> Teenager of the Year <
2965 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2022 : 11:43:01
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quote:
Originally posted by johnnyribcage
quote:
Originally posted by Ziggy
quote:
Originally posted by billgoodman
I do think his singing in Pagan Man is hard to listen to
Haunted House too, "way-hey-hey-ey-ey"
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
I really enjoy everything about 'Haunted House', although I get your point re: 'Pagan Man'. Reminds me of some moments on NSE.
Really liked blasting the album out on some very long drives lately.
Speaking of NSE, I’m pretty sure the vocal melody in The Lord Has Come Back on the lines “everyone’s invited” and “we are united” are directly lifted from Lake of Sin (behind the green fern / just threw the clean worm). I think there are a few other things pulled from solo songs. Makes sense to me - not many folks have heard a lot of those songs. Pulling some ideas into the Pixies idiom would get more ears on them. Hell, Steve Miller rewrote My Dark Hour into Fly Like an Eagle.
I had a bad reaction to your public hobby writings.
I agree with this general idea too. I swear I keep hearing either Bel Espirt or Plaster of Paris somewhere on this album, and also Don’t Get Me Wrong. I would love it if he would pull more stuff from solo FB albums into 2.0 songs. |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6012 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2022 : 13:22:58
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Yes, Don't get me wrong is somewhere in it
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6012 Posts |
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Troubles A Foot
= Cult of Ray =
USA
818 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2022 : 13:58:33
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I don't think he's "pulling" things from other songs. Songwriters just use the same melodies without realizing it. I've done this and everyone I'm a fan of has done this especially throughout a career that spans decades. A lot of Frank Black songs have similar chord progressions, vocal tics and melodies because that's just what makes somebody's style. It would be a lot of needless work for him to actually go back and select bits to reuse on a conscious level like that. It's probably not really conscious, and even debatable how much of the melody is even reused at all (I don't agree that Vault of Heaven has the same one as Cyrus, different notes.) He's not getting away with some sneaky melody theft. He's just pumping out songs and this will typically happen with anybody.
On the TMBG Tumblr where the band answers questions people always point out melody similarities and ask if its intentional. They're always like "Nope!" |
Edited by - Troubles A Foot on 10/05/2022 14:04:35 |
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Brank_Flack
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
910 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2022 : 14:23:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Troubles A Foot
I don't think he's "pulling" things from other songs. Songwriters just use the same melodies without realizing it. I've done this and everyone I'm a fan of has done this especially throughout a career that spans decades. A lot of Frank Black songs have similar chord progressions, vocal tics and melodies because that's just what makes somebody's style. It would be a lot of needless work for him to actually go back and select bits to reuse on a conscious level like that. It's probably not really conscious, and even debatable how much of the melody is even reused at all (I don't agree that Vault of Heaven has the same one as Cyrus, different notes.) He's not getting away with some sneaky melody theft. He's just pumping out songs and this will typically happen with anybody.
On the TMBG Tumblr where the band answers questions people always point out melody similarities and ask if its intentional. They're always like "Nope!"
Agreed. I can "see" the Lake of Sin/Lord Has Come Back Today similarity if I really squint, but it's almost more him hitting the same note or two than lifting a melody. |
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johnnyribcage
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2022 : 15:49:14
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Yeah I’m not saying he’s purposefully taking things from previous songs, I was kind of tongue in cheek with that one.
I had a bad reaction to your public hobby writings. |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6012 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2022 : 21:25:26
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quote:
Originally posted by billgoodman
This is a good way to listen to the album again:
https://timstwitterlisteningparty.com/pages/replay/feed_1149.html
You can hear a clip of Frank streaming in Nomatterday
Love it, but I think I prefer the cool version of the final mix
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
Screaming
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
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sdon
= Cult of Ray =
France
779 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2022 : 23:46:27
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quote:
Originally posted by billgoodman
Yes, Don't get me wrong is somewhere in it
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
I hear Don't Get Me Wrong subliminally in the verse of Haunted House and of Get Simulated :)
I don't have pills or the thrills to survive... Dont'get me wrong
--
"Aristophanes! (gong sounds)"
"Fucking up my devotion!"
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Edited by - sdon on 10/06/2022 06:16:40 |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6012 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2022 : 00:00:14
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quote:
Originally posted by sdon
quote:
Originally posted by billgoodman
Yes, Don't get me wrong is somewhere in it
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
I hear Don't Get Me Wrong subliminally in the verse of Get Simulated :)
I don't have pills or the thrills to survive... Dont'get me wrong
--
"Aristophanes! (gong sounds)"
"Fucking up my devotion!"
That's the one!
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3909 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2022 : 00:58:41
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| Anyone else picking up a bit of Chris Rea from Doggerel, around the start? It's not really that much of a problem though.. still one of the best album enders he's ever recorded. |
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Troubles A Foot
= Cult of Ray =
USA
818 Posts |
Posted - 10/07/2022 : 06:31:47
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As I've heard the album like 8 times now, I'm starting to get a sense of the lyrics and I have to say I am pretty let down by many of them.
Nomatterday is just so simple that I don't find anything very interesting in it. Vault of Heaven I think is pretty interesting lyrics but fairly repetitive. Dregs of Wine I also like the lyrics. Haunted House is cute but...maybe I'm not getting into the spirit of things (pun intended) but I just wish the lyrics were better. I guess when I feel like "I could have written these" I feel kind of disappointed. Lord Has Come back is OK but it's also not grabbing me lyrically.
Thunder and Lightning is a really good song but the lyrics do nothing for me at all. Moon is the worst lyrics he's ever written (did anyone see Joey's tweets about the criticism of this song during the listening party?) Who's More Sorry now is intriguing but still very sparse, there's not a lot to hook into there.
I dunno, maybe I'm the problem. Frank's done his share of more straight forward lyrics and they usually don't bother me, in fact I welcome it on a Catholics album. It sometimes feels weird to hear Joey screeching his guitar and then Frank sings something so silly or simple on top of that, as opposed to off-putting and weird and scary or mysterious.
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johnnyribcage
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 10/07/2022 : 07:40:01
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I’m fairly certain the title of the album pretty much explains the simple lyrics. One of the 2 definitions of the word is “verse which has a monotonous rhythm, easy rhyme, and cheap or trivial meaning.” So in that sense, it’s basically a concept album.
Edit: to be clear though, I love the album and I find the approach to lyrics this time around to be quite refreshing. Sometimes, especially on the last 3 albums, there have been a lot of overly clever or just over-baked / overthought sounding lyrics, too intentionally obtuese or telling a story that frankly isn't interesting (Catfish Kate). I'm digging the simplicity here.
I had a bad reaction to your public hobby writings. |
Edited by - johnnyribcage on 10/07/2022 07:44:36 |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6012 Posts |
Posted - 10/07/2022 : 09:06:20
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I love Catfish Kate, would take it over any of the slow burners of the new record
I'm Dutch so I can't understand the lyrics on a deep profound level anyway
But I think I get your point
The second half of Nomatterday has some weird word play right?
feast of burden
Beast of famine
Easter Bunny
I really like those lines combined with the melody
Some lyrics are undercooked IMHO:
Woah
Hey
So yeah
How's that
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
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johnnyribcage
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 10/07/2022 : 10:01:18
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quote:
Originally posted by billgoodman
I love Catfish Kate, would take it over any of the slow burners of the new record
I'm Dutch so I can't understand the lyrics on a deep profound level anyway
But I think I get your point
The second half of Nomatterday has some weird word play right?
feast of burden
Beast of famine
Easter Bunny
I really like those lines combined with the melody
Some lyrics are undercooked IMHO:
Woah
Hey
So yeah
How's that
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
I like the music for Kate and the lyrics are fine. I rarely have a complaint about any of his lyrics. It just popped into my head for an example. But I don’t find that story particularly compelling.
Anyway though… again I think that may have been the point - hence the title of the album. You don’t have to get the lyrics on a deep profound level since they aren’t deep and profound - on purpose. And many reviews of the last few albums Made a point to cite awkward lyrics and such. So maybe that was an inspiration to strip it down to the frame.
That said, I love the hey and woah. It works as kind of a thing you’d say to a buddy that was drunk and actually pissing in a fountain. You’d say “woah… hey man, don’t piss in the fountain,” then probably walk away so people don’t think you’re with him. Anyway I like it.
Also there are a lot of really simple / trite lyrics on the first 3 pixies releases. There goes my gun literally only has 11 words. Hey what do ya know, your lovely tan belly is starting to grow, Uriah hit the crapper. Elevator lady elavator lady elavator lady. And so on.
I had a bad reaction to your public hobby writings. |
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The Maharal
= Cult of Ray =
961 Posts |
Posted - 10/07/2022 : 11:16:10
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I think Moon is tied with Long Rider for worst lyrics. Just slay it and COME ON are possibly the WOAT Pixies bits.
Not a huge fan of the lyrics in Dregs either: We done run out of all our tricks / We flew a plane with lion tamers / Back to Brazil in 66 /End of the world and I don't blame her. All sounds jarring. |
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Troubles A Foot
= Cult of Ray =
USA
818 Posts |
Posted - 10/07/2022 : 18:52:23
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quote:
Originally posted by johnnyribcage
Also there are a lot of really simple / trite lyrics on the first 3 pixies releases. There goes my gun literally only has 11 words. Hey what do ya know, your lovely tan belly is starting to grow, Uriah hit the crapper. Elevator lady elavator lady elavator lady. And so on.
Sitting here astounded at the examples of "simple/trite lyrics" being used there. What the. |
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Troubles A Foot
= Cult of Ray =
USA
818 Posts |
Posted - 10/07/2022 : 18:52:58
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quote:
Originally posted by The Maharal
Not a huge fan of the lyrics in Dregs either: We done run out of all our tricks / We flew a plane with lion tamers / Back to Brazil in 66 /End of the world and I don't blame her. All sounds jarring.
Those are good lyrics |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6012 Posts |
Posted - 10/07/2022 : 21:56:16
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Re: Lion tamers
I love that verse, because I like his delivery
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
Edited by - billgoodman on 10/07/2022 22:23:35 |
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Bedbug
> Teenager of the Year <
2965 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2022 : 01:08:48
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| Did Joey co-write the lion tamers line? |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6012 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2022 : 01:18:35
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I don't think so
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
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johnnyribcage
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2022 : 04:54:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Troubles A Foot
quote:
Originally posted by johnnyribcage
Also there are a lot of really simple / trite lyrics on the first 3 pixies releases. There goes my gun literally only has 11 words. Hey what do ya know, your lovely tan belly is starting to grow, Uriah hit the crapper. Elevator lady elavator lady elavator lady. And so on.
Sitting here astounded at the examples of "simple/trite lyrics" being used there. What the.
It’s not an insult. I love those tracks. And the lyrics. Nothing wrong with simple. A song with a handful of words and 2 short verses with a short chorus repeated over and over is a staple of rock and pop songwriting. All Together Now is a great Beatles track and there’s nothing to it. He’s counting, listing colors, and chopping trees.
I'm not sure if my comments are getting conflated with other comments complaining about the lyrics or what. I'm just trying to tie the actual definition of "doggerel" to the lyrics on this album, and others. The words "simple" and "trite" are literally in the definition of the word, which has a couple definitions / uses, as many words do, and maybe he's referring to all the definitions.
I think it's deliberate, and represents both a songwriting exercise (40 songs in 3 weeks or whatever) and a specific approach, as well as some kind of message and concept.
We can debate our interpretations of what constitutes a simple lyric, but I'm pretty confident in my evaluation of something like Levitate Me or There Goes My Gun being pretty simple. I'll give you that "trite" may not apply. But whatever you call it, he's keeping it simple on this new one.
I had a bad reaction to your public hobby writings. |
Edited by - johnnyribcage on 10/08/2022 05:28:33 |
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johnnyribcage
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2022 : 05:09:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Troubles A Foot
quote:
Originally posted by The Maharal
Not a huge fan of the lyrics in Dregs either: We done run out of all our tricks / We flew a plane with lion tamers / Back to Brazil in 66 /End of the world and I don't blame her. All sounds jarring.
Those are good lyrics
Agreed.
I had a bad reaction to your public hobby writings. |
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Bedbug
> Teenager of the Year <
2965 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2022 : 15:14:32
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quote:
Originally posted by billgoodman
I don't think so
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
Joey co-wrote Pagan Man and what else? I thought there was one more |
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johnnyribcage
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2022 : 15:23:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Bedbug
quote:
Originally posted by billgoodman
I don't think so
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
Joey co-wrote Pagan Man and what else? I thought there was one more
The press on Dregs had Charles providing the lyrics but there may have been other revelations in interviews that I missed.
I had a bad reaction to your public hobby writings. |
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tamefan
- FB Fan -
Canada
183 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2022 : 18:13:51
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quote:
Originally posted by johnnyribcage
I’m fairly certain the title of the album pretty much explains the simple lyrics. One of the 2 definitions of the word is “verse which has a monotonous rhythm, easy rhyme, and cheap or trivial meaning.” So in that sense, it’s basically a concept album.
I had a bad reaction to your public hobby writings.
Interesting. Maybe Charles is juxtaposing melody/harmony with a simpler approach to lyrics. I certainly prefer that hypothesis to the one that says "Charles was just lazy or uninspired." This album doesn't strike me as hastily or carelessly crafted. So maybe the lyrics are intentional. In either case, the lyrics don't bother me one bit, so imma return to happily bopping along to these tunes. |
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Doggerel
