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Jason
* Dog in the Sand *
1446 Posts |
 Posted - 10/01/2022 : 02:01:14
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More thoughts:
I gave "Doggerel" the Late Night in the Car test and it was beautiful. Frank always makes great driving music.
"Thunder and Lightning" is a major song. It sounds like a Neil Young radio hit from 1973. It's my new favorite.
"Pagan Man" has a beautiful melody and the whistling solo is an inspired touch.
In one of the recent interviews, Frank said that the Pixies were making music that's more "cinematic" than they have before and that's a good word for this. "Doggerel" has a mood and it doesn't stray far from it. When I play it, I don't think about singles. I think about the whole thing and how it hangs together. |
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Stevio10
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
1122 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2022 : 02:27:16
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quote:
Originally posted by oddball
The harmonies between Charles and Paz on practically all songs are so beautiful. I think that's where some of the typical Pixies quirkiness lies this time around. I don't recall hearing harmonies to this extent on any other Pixies album. My favorites so far are Pagan Man, Who's More Sorry Now, Thunder and Lightning, and Haunted House.
-oddball
Totally agree with this about the harmonies. This album seems to be more Peter, Paul and Mary than Husker Du. |
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The Maharal
= Cult of Ray =
996 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2022 : 02:28:01
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Some more random thoughts:
You're Such A Sadducee is great - it simultaneously reminds me of the BTE demos (the frankness of the lyrics) and the sonic sheen of The New Pornographers (of course AC Newman and BF share massive pop sensibilities and I doubt BF has ever listened to them but there's definite Neko vibes here with Paz and the nice overlaying of vocals at the end).
The title track - what a lovely groove. Paz is used well here too.
I agree with pot about Get Simulated being reminiscent of the Kills. It's quite restrained but sharp. Someone on Youtube said it reminded them of Sparks, another interesting comparison. It reminds me of certain Grinderman and Future of the Left tracks which were quite menacing. But in reality it's Il Cuchaiao reworked. Il Cuchaiao has(n't) gone away.
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Edited by - The Maharal on 10/01/2022 02:34:10 |
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3910 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2022 : 04:16:51
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| Thinking about adding The Lord Has Come Back Today as an Eighth Finger? |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6214 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2022 : 04:23:47
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quote:
Originally posted by pot
Thinking about adding The Lord Has Come Back Today as an Eighth Finger?
Love Paz on This
This is their own Winterlong
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3910 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2022 : 04:36:23
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I looked up what Sadducee means (because I'm not a professor of ancient theological history) and the internet says it means this:
"Sadducee (noun) a member of a Jewish sect or party of the time of Christ that denied the resurrection of the dead, the existence of spirits, and the obligation of oral tradition, emphasizing acceptance of the written Law alone"
Interesting - I wonder if there is an etymological connection with the word Saddhu, used to describe the holy Indian Men of the Hindu religion? |
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johnnyribcage
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1301 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2022 : 04:51:51
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There’s some Eighty Five Weeks DNA in Thunder and Lightning
I had a bad reaction to your public hobby writings. |
Edited by - johnnyribcage on 10/01/2022 04:55:01 |
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cptnpasty
- FB Fan -
Spain
161 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2022 : 06:10:39
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I think I read in one of the reviews that the rhyming of Sadducee with "so sad to see' was embarrassing. These people don't know who they're dealing with—this is the guy who rhymed "I met a curator" with "I thought I would date her" and I'm GLAD he did. GLAD, I tell you.
I think it's good to just remember that we're lucky to have this music. I personally couldn't give a loose green shit about comparisons between 1.0 and 2.0. I've been listening to this guy's stuff since '88. He is incapable of making a record that doesn't have something on it that moves in to me and stays. And he's done that for me for THIRTY-FOUR years. WithOUT a break.
Gawd bless 'im, and all who sail in 'im.
www.guillermostitch.com |
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3910 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2022 : 06:27:09
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Got no issues with the rhyming of Sadducee and "so sad to see" - I like the lyrics of that song i think it's one of the strongest tracks on the album. I don't care if it's a song about nothing either, or if about the time he met met a Rabbi and accidently caught one of his guitars strings on his beard.
Some of the other lyrics are complete cheese though. |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6214 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2022 : 08:12:38
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quote:
Originally posted by cptnpasty
I think I read in one of the reviews that the rhyming of Sadducee with "so sad to see' was embarrassing. These people don't know who they're dealing with—this is the guy who rhymed "I met a curator" with "I thought I would date her" and I'm GLAD he did. GLAD, I tell you.
I think it's good to just remember that we're lucky to have this music. I personally couldn't give a loose green shit about comparisons between 1.0 and 2.0. I've been listening to this guy's stuff since '88. He is incapable of making a record that doesn't have something on it that moves in to me and stays. And he's done that for me for THIRTY-FOUR years. WithOUT a break.
Gawd bless 'im, and all who sail in 'im.
www.guillermostitch.com
Great post!
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
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Bedbug
> Teenager of the Year <
3159 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2022 : 08:13:23
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Doggerel the album, where do I start?
I really, really, really like it a lot. It's terrific.
Best album of 2.0, and I love BTE and like IC and HC (and demos and singles of course).
At first I thought of Doggerel as a sequel to BTE, but now not so much.
I think the lyrics are a lot deeper than realized, case in point Vault of Heaven.
I actually think the three singles are the 3 weakest songs, and that's obviously a good thing.
First album where I did not do much comparing to 1.0. Just loved it for what it is (while of course not really thinking of it as a Pixies album anyway, who cares).
And to risk being annoying, the title of Who's More Sorry Now? made me think of Mrs. John Murphy, and then when I saw that the lyrics refer to a mannequin (last referenced in You Ain't Me) I thought even more so. But who knows.
Frank and company: great job, great album, great music, great singing, just great all around. Really digging it. And great to read everybody's thoughts on this. I hope we are all taking the time to enjoy listening to new FBF songs in 2022. That's cool. |
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picpic
* Dog in the Sand *
Belgium
1874 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2022 : 13:39:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Bedbug
And to risk being annoying, the title of Who's More Sorry Now? made me think of Mrs. John Murphy, and then when I saw that the lyrics refer to a mannequin (last referenced in You Ain't Me) I thought even more so. But who knows.
Ha ! Nice catch.
Who’s Henry David Thoreau ?
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"Service Unavailable" |
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Troubles A Foot
= Cult of Ray =
USA
961 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2022 : 14:26:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Bedbug
And to risk being annoying, the title of Who's More Sorry Now? made me think of Mrs. John Murphy, and then when I saw that the lyrics refer to a mannequin (last referenced in You Ain't Me) I thought even more so. But who knows.
Oh, yes, you nailed it.
"Split your sails" or "split your sales", hm? |
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Troubles A Foot
= Cult of Ray =
USA
961 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2022 : 15:06:36
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quote:
Originally posted by picpic
I also preferred Vaults of heaven in its 1st incarnation (which is obviously Cyrus from bte demos?)
I would not agree with this. It's a few notes of the melody are similar for one part, unless I'm missing something. These are two completely different songs. Cyrus is awesome. Heaven is...just sort of there for me. |
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Brank_Flack
* Dog in the Sand *
Canada
1019 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2022 : 15:49:12
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Second listen and I quite enjoyed it this time around, after being apprehensive the first time. the mid-tempo songs grew on me quite a bit. Whereas the first time I thought they sounded like a forced mish-mash of Frank Black + Pixies 2.0, they sound much more natural, flowing, and confident this time around.
I liked Quabear's (sorry if I've misspelled) suggestion a few pages ago about there being shades of the self-titled album - the chorus for Who's More Sorry Now transported me back to Teenager of the Year. (Sidenote: lots of synths/keys on this album. Maybe invite EDF into the studio?)
I need to re-iterate how much I love the first half of Nomatterday and the intro/Leonard Cohen parts of Doggerel. I'm floored by both. For the latter, it's amazing Charles has such a new vocal trick up his sleeve. I'd love to see that sound explored a bit more. Meanwhile, I agree with - I think it was sdon? - that the first half of Nomatterday may be the highlight of Pixies 2.0.
One worry I do have, which was also reiterated above, is that it indulges in the Indie Cindy problem of dragging songs on too long by over repeating choruses. It didn't bother me this time around, but I worry it might make me tire of the album quicker. We'll see.
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3910 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2022 : 15:51:26
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| I'm drunk on Doggerel (even though I'm actually listening to something else right now though) how do I sober up from my asphyxiated state? |
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3910 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2022 : 16:05:45
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I don't like their Lyric Videos they are doing for this album, I think they've done it before under the direction of Dalgety?
They're nothing special and I don't want the words of the song to be a part of the visuals, unless I specifically select the subtitles option
Anyway Haunted House just came up on my NWO Interface (coincidence) and it still sounds good - great vocals from both Frank and Paz at the end - the most Bossanova 2.0 track I think they've done so far maybe? |
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Brank_Flack
* Dog in the Sand *
Canada
1019 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2022 : 16:14:34
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| Hm, I can kind of understand the Bossanova reference for the verse, but wouldn't pair the two as quickly. I think Magdelina could have been on Bossanova and no one would have blinked. All the Saints and Los Surfers Muertos (sp?) also sound more Bossanov-ian to my ears. |
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3910 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2022 : 16:25:52
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The video to Velouria is nothing special, but it's still amazing
Because it's the Pixies
Need to relisten to Magdelina - we've all got our own album brain connections - what separates us is not what we see together, but what we don't |
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Bedbug
> Teenager of the Year <
3159 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2022 : 16:31:47
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One minor complaint I would have (since I need to keep my forum membership credentials current) is that some of songs maybe don't know how to end? Not even that they go on too long, but just that they feel like they drift off (not fade out) and then just sort of end at some point. Not a real complaint at all, but something I was mildly aware of.
For those who are using the phrase "mid-tempo," how many mid tempo songs do you count on TLM or Boss? If any. |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6214 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2022 : 16:32:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Brank_Flack
Hm, I can kind of understand the Bossanova reference for the verse, but wouldn't pair the two as quickly. I think Magdelina could have been on Bossanova and no one would have blinked. All the Saints and Los Surfers Muertos (sp?) also sound more Bossanov-ian to my ears.
Yes! Love those songs, cause I'm teambossanova
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
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johnnyribcage
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1301 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2022 : 19:21:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Bedbug
For those who are using the phrase "mid-tempo," how many mid tempo songs do you count on TLM or Boss? If any.
I haven’t been reading the thread in extreme detail, but I know I specifically said there were a lot of mid-tempo Bossanova style chuggers on this, which is maybe where it started? I didn’t mean it as anything other than an observation. I love Bossanova.
I threw the term midtempo out there as a musician. I assume I started it, but I didn’t look that deep on the thread. A lot of stuff I’d call that you could count a couple different ways either in a 4/8 or 4/4, or some kind of cut time for the strings over a half time beat - doesn’t matter. I’m talking about the chugga chugga thing, again, as an observation. I don’t know what other people mean by it, but if you read my original comment I think it speaks for itself in context.
Just to be clear - “mid tempo,” when the good old Ribcage is talking about it, isn’t a bad thing. I love it. And I’m leaning towards Doggerel being one of the best if not maybe the best 2.0 album yet (reserving that though since I need a couple years with it to determine that).
Bossanova “midtempo” 4 on the floor chuggers, to me, include Is She Weird, Ana, All Over the World, Dig for Fire, Down to the Well, The Happening, Stormy Weather, Havalina… most of the album really.
Fewer of those on Trompe. But a lot of Pixies songs fall into that groove. I don’t think it’s out of the ordinary. Or bad.
I had a bad reaction to your public hobby writings. |
Edited by - johnnyribcage on 10/01/2022 19:33:39 |
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sdon
= Cult of Ray =
France
786 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2022 : 22:45:55
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Yeah, media was always trying to compare 2.0 to Surfer Rosa or Doolittle, but this album is quite close to Bossanova (especially the drumming, Joey's surf notes, and Charles' soft vocals almost like on Ana) and a bit to Trompe Le Monde (Dalgety's production has reached its best at last, some vocal delivery on Nomatterday reminds me of Subbacultcha, and the sparse interventions of Paz could have been on TLM)
I would personally rank Doggerel higher than BTE, more listening potential in the long term
Doggerel
BTE demos
IC
BTE
HC
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"Aristophanes! (gong sounds)"
"Fucking up my devotion!"
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6214 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2022 : 22:55:28
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If I was the Pixies manager I would call for a Bossanova and TLM renaissance. Just play 10-15 songs of COP, SR and Doolittle a night and the other 20-25 are Bossanova, TLM, Doggerel and some of BTE (yes please), IC and HC.
That would make so much sense. And I don't think they will lose any interest in tickets.
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
Edited by - billgoodman on 10/02/2022 22:56:09 |
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Bedbug
> Teenager of the Year <
3159 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2022 : 02:39:32
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And I if I were the manager, i would say “we’re going to have you be performing live versions of your entire solo catalog, starting with a Broadway opera of TOTY directed by David Lynch.”
Also, I know it’s early, but like Sdon I would rank Doggerel #1 of all 2.0 content.
Dog
BTE
B-TE
IC
HC
Poor Head Carrier, nobody ranks you above dead last anymore |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6214 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2022 : 03:05:03
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I do think HC is better than IC, as an album
Not all the individual songs
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
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Brank_Flack
* Dog in the Sand *
Canada
1019 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2022 : 06:17:51
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Too early for this to mean anything, but as of now
BTE
Doggerel
IC
HC
(B-TE)
Doggerel and IC could flip. I agree with billgoodman that HC might work better as an album, and that Doggerel does indeed work better as an album, but that IC has the best concentration of songs out of any of them. To evoke Troubles a Foot, it's not a very digestible album but it is an interesting one. |
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Ziggy
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
2463 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2022 : 06:30:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Brank_Flack
Too early for this to mean anything, but as of now
BTE
Doggerel
IC
HC
(B-TE)
Doggerel and IC could flip. I agree with billgoodman that HC might work better as an album, and that Doggerel does indeed work better as an album, but that IC has the best concentration of songs out of any of them. To evoke Troubles a Foot, it's not a very digestible album but it is an interesting one.
Yeah I'd agree with that. I still listen to BTE a lot, and the sequencing/collection of songs is great.
I could quite happily strike a couple of songs off Doggerel, but the high points (Nomatterday, Haunted House and the final three) are very good indeed. The chord sequences on Nomatterday are wild - proper COR era rhythm work too! Can't wait to hear all the songs live.
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Brank_Flack
* Dog in the Sand *
Canada
1019 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2022 : 07:01:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Ziggy
quote:
Originally posted by Brank_Flack
Too early for this to mean anything, but as of now
BTE
Doggerel
IC
HC
(B-TE)
Doggerel and IC could flip. I agree with billgoodman that HC might work better as an album, and that Doggerel does indeed work better as an album, but that IC has the best concentration of songs out of any of them. To evoke Troubles a Foot, it's not a very digestible album but it is an interesting one.
Yeah I'd agree with that. I still listen to BTE a lot, and the sequencing/collection of songs is great.
I could quite happily strike a couple of songs off Doggerel, but the high points (Nomatterday, Haunted House and the final three) are very good indeed. The chord sequences on Nomatterday are wild - proper COR era rhythm work too! Can't wait to hear all the songs live.
What songs would you strike off, out of curiosity? So far the only one I would consider is The Lord Has Come Back Today, which seems a little light weight to me. Who knows though, we're talking about Frank Black songs, so in three months it could be my favourite.
I've really come around to Pagan Man, which I might have excised after my first listen. Sure Frank could have worked on Joey's lyrics a bit, but it's such a sweet melody. While Frank's falsetto is not my favourite of his voices, it has a certain wide-eyed innocence here that I find appealing. |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6214 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2022 : 07:08:15
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Still think Paz should have sung that one. Pagan Man with a female voice, and HER voice to be exact
And instead of the whisteling a violin solo
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
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Bedbug
> Teenager of the Year <
3159 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2022 : 07:10:15
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I just listened to the whole album without interruption on my headphones while shopping for Halloween candy.
Is it the best album since Bluefinger?
Definitely
Is it the best album since Dog in the Sand or even TOTY?
Possibly
How close is it to reaching 1.0 levels?
As close as you could hope for
Also, I am going to push that Haunted House song on everybody as the next big Halloween song to listen to (whether or not that’s a thing).
Doggerel is a fantastic album. I’m really impressed |
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johnnyribcage
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1301 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2022 : 07:18:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Bedbug
I just listened to the whole album without interruption on my headphones while shopping for Halloween candy.
Is it the best album since Bluefinger?
Definitely
Is it the best album since Dog in the Sand or even TOTY?
Possibly
How close is it to reaching 1.0 levels?
As close as you could hope for
Also, I am going to push that Haunted House song on everybody as the next big Halloween song to listen to (whether or not that’s a thing).
Doggerel is a fantastic album. I’m really impressed
I’m with you. I’ve been teeing this up to my few friends that would know or care that this is the best thing he’s done since Bluefinger.
I had a bad reaction to your public hobby writings. |
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cptnpasty
- FB Fan -
Spain
161 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2022 : 08:14:54
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I'm cptnpasty and I approve this message
quote:
Originally posted by Bedbug
Doggerel the album, where do I start?
I really, really, really like it a lot. It's terrific.
Best album of 2.0, and I love BTE and like IC and HC (and demos and singles of course).
At first I thought of Doggerel as a sequel to BTE, but now not so much.
I think the lyrics are a lot deeper than realized, case in point Vault of Heaven.
I actually think the three singles are the 3 weakest songs, and that's obviously a good thing.
First album where I did not do much comparing to 1.0. Just loved it for what it is (while of course not really thinking of it as a Pixies album anyway, who cares).
And to risk being annoying, the title of Who's More Sorry Now? made me think of Mrs. John Murphy, and then when I saw that the lyrics refer to a mannequin (last referenced in You Ain't Me) I thought even more so. But who knows.
Frank and company: great job, great album, great music, great singing, just great all around. Really digging it. And great to read everybody's thoughts on this. I hope we are all taking the time to enjoy listening to new FBF songs in 2022. That's cool.
www.guillermostitch.com |
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cptnpasty
- FB Fan -
Spain
161 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2022 : 08:52:24
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I'm cptnpasty and I approve this message
quote:
Originally posted by Bedbug
Doggerel the album, where do I start?
I really, really, really like it a lot. It's terrific.
Best album of 2.0, and I love BTE and like IC and HC (and demos and singles of course).
At first I thought of Doggerel as a sequel to BTE, but now not so much.
I think the lyrics are a lot deeper than realized, case in point Vault of Heaven.
I actually think the three singles are the 3 weakest songs, and that's obviously a good thing.
First album where I did not do much comparing to 1.0. Just loved it for what it is (while of course not really thinking of it as a Pixies album anyway, who cares).
And to risk being annoying, the title of Who's More Sorry Now? made me think of Mrs. John Murphy, and then when I saw that the lyrics refer to a mannequin (last referenced in You Ain't Me) I thought even more so. But who knows.
Frank and company: great job, great album, great music, great singing, just great all around. Really digging it. And great to read everybody's thoughts on this. I hope we are all taking the time to enjoy listening to new FBF songs in 2022. That's cool.
www.guillermostitch.com |
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Bedbug
> Teenager of the Year <
3159 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2022 : 13:22:02
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Let’s talk about how well produced Get Simulated is.
Besides the fact that it sounds like one of your favorite Frank Black songs, it’s the opposite of brick walled, am I right?
We complained so much about the bzzzzzxzzzx in so many of the 2.0 songs, it’s so good to hear a FBF song you can hear.
One of the gems for sure |
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Doggerel
