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Troubles A Foot
= Cult of Ray =
USA
959 Posts |
 Posted - 08/09/2022 : 15:59:36
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quote:
Originally posted by billgoodman
Listening on head phones do you think there some rough editing in the
first "Heaven" in the first chorus.
Frank suddenly sounds very alone and dry?
Yes. I hear it too. That is weird, it almost sounds like a mistake. The backing vocals disappear. The next time it happens they don't, EVEN WHEN OTHER INSTRUMENTS DROP OUT and things are supposed to be quieter. |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6214 Posts |
Posted - 08/09/2022 : 21:44:20
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It sounds like a mistake!
Like the time for editing was running out
Or Charles left and they had to fly in that word from a demo
Clunky!
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
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Jason
* Dog in the Sand *
1446 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2022 : 01:35:44
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The two advance tracks hint at a moody, smokey kind of record, the kind of music you might play while driving at night, which is cool with me. I've got room in my soul for that. I like "mature" Pixies. I'd go for a Pixies acoustic album and a Pixies country album, too.
Frank is almost 60 and when talented songwriters who keep going reach that age, they often get to this cool place where they're no longer playing the "gotta have a big single" game or the "gotta get noticed" game. Their legacy is sealed and now they kinda free-float and any new record they put out can be anything.
As I type this, I'm listening to Bob Dylan's "Time Out of Mind", a really groovy, lovely album that I only started to like in the last year or two (I'm a late bloomer when it comes to appreciating Dylan). Out of curiousity, I looked up how old he was when it came out in 1997. Dylan was 56 and I love where he was at when he was 56.
Frank is 57. I'm looking to hearing where Frank's at when I finally hear "Doggerel" as a whole thing. |
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3910 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2022 : 01:37:04
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| Listened to both tracks back to back - still underwhelmed - I noticed though that they both sem to have this signature Joey twang in them? just as the song launches into the main verse on VoH anyway Joey goes wah.. wah.. wah.. wah..? it's like Dalgety's just taking key sounds associated the Pixies back catalogue and splicing them together into "new material" it's all turning out quite fake - but it is what it is for a man with a solid back catalogue of songs spanning three decades you can't complain if he maybe runs out of steam - there's only so many ways you can arrange a set of chords and words in the style of your style before repeition and monotony start to set it |
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Ziggy
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
2463 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2022 : 01:38:09
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quote:
Originally posted by billgoodman
It sounds like a mistake!
Like the time for editing was running out
Or Charles left and they had to fly in that word from a demo
Clunky!
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
Very odd!
That wordless 'chorus' with Paz singing works better on the record than live.
The mix is very odd - with Joey's riff coming in really loudly. Reminds me of the 'faders up to 11' volume boost in the Classic Masher chorus. |
Edited by - Ziggy on 08/10/2022 01:46:54 |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6214 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2022 : 03:22:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Jason
The two advance tracks hint at a moody, smokey kind of record, the kind of music you might play while driving at night, which is cool with me. I've got room in my soul for that. I like "mature" Pixies. I'd go for a Pixies acoustic album and a Pixies country album, too.
Frank is almost 60 and when talented songwriters who keep going reach that age, they often get to this cool place where they're no longer playing the "gotta have a big single" game or the "gotta get noticed" game. Their legacy is sealed and now they kinda free-float and any new record they put out can be anything.
As I type this, I'm listening to Bob Dylan's "Time Out of Mind", a really groovy, lovely album that I only started to like in the last year or two (I'm a late bloomer when it comes to appreciating Dylan). Out of curiousity, I looked up how old he was when it came out in 1997. Dylan was 56 and I love where he was at when he was 56.
Frank is 57. I'm looking to hearing where Frank's at when I finally hear "Doggerel" as a whole thing.
Love this take
Thanks man
And I think Dylan's "Love and theft" was even better
Maybe my favorite of his
Can you imagine FBF doing a record like that. Yes I can!
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6214 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2022 : 03:33:09
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When talking about the (odd) mix;
Are there keys on it? Like a (soft) synth or plain keyboard?
I'm not sure, but in the last two Joey-themes they seem to be
Some faux strings?
In the intro there's some background that also sounds like fake violins to me
Could be the reverb from one of the guitars
Guess that's it
I have heard pads like that in the podcast on other songs too
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
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Brank_Flack
* Dog in the Sand *
Canada
1019 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2022 : 04:16:22
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quote:
Originally posted by billgoodman
quote:
Originally posted by Jason
The two advance tracks hint at a moody, smokey kind of record, the kind of music you might play while driving at night, which is cool with me. I've got room in my soul for that. I like "mature" Pixies. I'd go for a Pixies acoustic album and a Pixies country album, too.
Frank is almost 60 and when talented songwriters who keep going reach that age, they often get to this cool place where they're no longer playing the "gotta have a big single" game or the "gotta get noticed" game. Their legacy is sealed and now they kinda free-float and any new record they put out can be anything.
As I type this, I'm listening to Bob Dylan's "Time Out of Mind", a really groovy, lovely album that I only started to like in the last year or two (I'm a late bloomer when it comes to appreciating Dylan). Out of curiousity, I looked up how old he was when it came out in 1997. Dylan was 56 and I love where he was at when he was 56.
Frank is 57. I'm looking to hearing where Frank's at when I finally hear "Doggerel" as a whole thing.
Love this take
Thanks man
And I think Dylan's "Love and theft" was even better
Maybe my favorite of his
Can you imagine FBF doing a record like that. Yes I can!
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
I'm intrigued by this comparison, but I'm not quite ready to bite. Yes TOOM is a smokey album released by a mid-to-late 50 year old, but it is also a masterwork of songwriting. Unless I'm wrong - it's first two singles would have been Love Sick and Not Dark Yet? Those are both staggering songs.
(Side-note, I'm in agreement with the above post - 'Love & Theft' is my favourite Dylan record.)
There is a precedent of monumental records being released by artists in their 50s. I'm thinking in particular of Leonard Cohen's "I'm Your Man" (53 - one of Charles's favourites) and "The Future" (58?). Again, smokey but with monumental songs.
Likewise Nick Cave was 55 when "Push the Sky Away" was recorded and 59 when "Skeleton Tree" was released (it was recorded over a two year period so harder to pick a certain date). More ambient records, but you still have absolute monsters like Jubilee Street, Higgs Bosom Blues, I Need You, Skeleton Tree, etc.
There was an article around here a while back that one's 50s is the period most akin to one's 20s for creativity. I think BTE made good on that promise, at the very least. |
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Bedbug
> Teenager of the Year <
3156 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2022 : 05:42:05
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Maybe the mistake people are hearing in the mix of Vault of Heaven is a mistake like the ones Stanley Kubrick films are full of?
I would love if Frank was doing the Dylan in his 50s thing, but that is quite ambitious for sure.
Maybe even the selection of Vault as a single means something, like an Anti-single, maybe not |
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QuaBear
- FB Fan -
USA
66 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2022 : 07:06:35
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| At first, I thought the song was OK....but it's certainly grown on me. |
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Brank_Flack
* Dog in the Sand *
Canada
1019 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2022 : 08:24:31
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quote:
Originally posted by QuaBear
At first, I thought the song was OK....but it's certainly grown on me.
Yes, I haven't listened to it again today, but the main hook from the verses has already popped into my head a few times today. |
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Troubles A Foot
= Cult of Ray =
USA
959 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2022 : 08:25:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Jason
Frank is almost 60 and when talented songwriters who keep going reach that age, they often get to this cool place where they're no longer playing the "gotta have a big single" game
This is the exact opposite of my impression. Pixies no longer have weird, random songs or left turns on the albums. It's all a bunch of songs desperate to be a big hit single. That is my problem with BTE and even with Head Carrier. Pixies are now a band that seems to want to make pleasant, listenable rock music that is kind of desperate to be a big radio hit. It's not in the slightest what I want Pixies to be, even if some of the songs are perfectly good songs. |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6214 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2022 : 08:59:36
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Nothing sounds like a big modern rock song though
So if they are going for that they are clearly doing it wrong
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
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Troubles A Foot
= Cult of Ray =
USA
959 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2022 : 09:04:37
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I didn't say they're doing it right. The modern music scene is a garbage fire and old rock bands don't fit into it at all.
But all Dalgety seems to care about is filling the album with songs that could be played (and ignored) on the radio. Every song on BTE is essentially a single. Big pop hooky chorus, huge production, all the typical formula stuff pop singles do.
It's insane to me that's what the Pixies are now. What I love about Frank's songwriting are the "oddballs", and that Pixies albums did whatever they wanted to do and had lots of weird songs, short crazy songs, etc, etc. It's all just so dull now. |
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Brank_Flack
* Dog in the Sand *
Canada
1019 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2022 : 09:58:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Troubles A Foot
I didn't say they're doing it right. The modern music scene is a garbage fire and old rock bands don't fit into it at all.
But all Dalgety seems to care about is filling the album with songs that could be played (and ignored) on the radio. Every song on BTE is essentially a single. Big pop hooky chorus, huge production, all the typical formula stuff pop singles do.
It's insane to me that's what the Pixies are now. What I love about Frank's songwriting are the "oddballs", and that Pixies albums did whatever they wanted to do and had lots of weird songs, short crazy songs, etc, etc. It's all just so dull now.
I think I understand where you're coming from, but I disagree that there aren't oddballs in the recent catalogue. Just from BTE, for example, I don't think any of these songs fit your description: This is My Fate, Ready for Love, Los Surfers Muertos (sp?), Birds of Prey, etc. |
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Bedbug
> Teenager of the Year <
3156 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2022 : 10:02:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Troubles A Foot
I didn't say they're doing it right. The modern music scene is a garbage fire and old rock bands don't fit into it at all.
But all Dalgety seems to care about is filling the album with songs that could be played (and ignored) on the radio. Every song on BTE is essentially a single. Big pop hooky chorus, huge production, all the typical formula stuff pop singles do.
It's insane to me that's what the Pixies are now. What I love about Frank's songwriting are the "oddballs", and that Pixies albums did whatever they wanted to do and had lots of weird songs, short crazy songs, etc, etc. It's all just so dull now.
This is why I quit being a Ween fan when chocolate and cheese came out. I was like “what is this mainstream garbage? Ween is dead!” But then I went back to them and obviously I dig it all now
I agree that 2.0 just doesn’t sound like 1.0 at all (though both had deceptively simplistic lyrics) but I still like this 2.0 sound. It’s just good FB music. |
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Skatealex1
* Dog in the Sand *
1670 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2022 : 10:41:08
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I do also get the kind of sense they are trying to me kind of epic rock/pop songs. Hard to say how it might differ if Frank was releasing as a solo artist. I guess only he would know that.
I think the new songs aren't bad but I wouldn't mind a little more off the cuff kind or weirder tracks. Interested to see how the full album sounds anyway. |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6214 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2022 : 10:49:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Brank_Flack
quote:
Originally posted by Troubles A Foot
I didn't say they're doing it right. The modern music scene is a garbage fire and old rock bands don't fit into it at all.
But all Dalgety seems to care about is filling the album with songs that could be played (and ignored) on the radio. Every song on BTE is essentially a single. Big pop hooky chorus, huge production, all the typical formula stuff pop singles do.
It's insane to me that's what the Pixies are now. What I love about Frank's songwriting are the "oddballs", and that Pixies albums did whatever they wanted to do and had lots of weird songs, short crazy songs, etc, etc. It's all just so dull now.
I think I understand where you're coming from, but I disagree that there aren't oddballs in the recent catalogue. Just from BTE, for example, I don't think any of these songs fit your description: This is My Fate, Ready for Love, Los Surfers Muertos (sp?), Birds of Prey, etc.
Seconded
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
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Stevio10
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
1122 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2022 : 11:16:25
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I see a similar parallel between Pixies now and the Kinks in the late 70's and 80's. After their classic British Invasion period of the 60's / early 70's then their somewhat unpopular mid 70's albums they found larger popularity (particularly in the US) with a heavier sound incorporating genres they helped to influence or became popular along the way.
Listen to Superman or Misfits and it sounds a million miles from classic Kinks. But there are good songs from that period. Maybe not classic albums compared to their vintage but they outlived a genre or movement they helped create and made the most of their second shot at commercial success. |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6214 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2022 : 11:26:59
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A few days back I said something about how they should market this record as their cinematic one
so I don't expect another Broken Face.
Today I read the pr for Doggerel again. It's pretty clear, so joke's on me:
Guitarist Joey Santiago says, “This time around we have grown. We no longer have under two-minute songs. We have little breaks, more conventional arrangements but still our twists in there.”
Vocalist/guitarist Black Francis adds, “We're trying to do things that are very big and bold and orchestrated. The punky stuff, I really like playing it but you just cannot artificially create that shit. There's another way to do this, there's other things we can do with this extra special energy that we're encountering.”
So with the remarks on being Universal, Cinematic in interviews we already had "more conventional" , "big bold" and "orchestrated"
It worked out fine on BTE to be honest. Really like that one.
Stoked for Doggerel. Even if it doesn't deliver the FBF goods.
Oh and yes, I'm seeing them tomorrow for the first time in 6 years!
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
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Jason
* Dog in the Sand *
1446 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2022 : 11:53:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Stevio10
I see a similar parallel between Pixies now and the Kinks in the late 70's and 80's. After their classic British Invasion period of the 60's / early 70's then their somewhat unpopular mid 70's albums they found larger popularity (particularly in the US) with a heavier sound incorporating genres they helped to influence or became popular along the way.
Listen to Superman or Misfits and it sounds a million miles from classic Kinks. But there are good songs from that period. Maybe not classic albums compared to their vintage but they outlived a genre or movement they helped create and made the most of their second shot at commercial success.
YES. I love this. This is the really interesting conversation to me.
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3910 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2022 : 03:18:27
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quote:
Originally posted by billgoodman
Oh and yes, I'm seeing them tomorrow for the first time in 6 years!
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
Cool man. And if the weather's anything like Scotland this week it'll be a grand day, and there's a full moon to bring out your inner doggerel.
Love to be hitting that gig I could do with a night out in old Amsterdam again it's been too long! Reckon I'll probably have to take blood pressure pills if I ever return it's been so long it'll be pure culture shock seeing all the mooi meisjes again.. |
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Sprite
* Dog in the Sand *
1335 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2022 : 14:07:09
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Took a few goes but I am digging this track. I think this and Moon On dovetail quite nicely. Hearing the smokey comment above, I am quite OK with a more mellow vibe. Not a fan of the drums though, I don't like this cymbal going with the beat (same on Human Crime). Think it's a producer tick and not a good one. But overall I think these are best single combo so far on Pixies 2.0. Still very optimistic about the new album. And I think the artwork splash on Spotify for these two songs is the best of the new era.
I don't get this Pixies are trying to produce big hit rock/pop songs at all. It was the same back in day - Debaser, Euphrates, Gigantic, HCYM, Levitate Me, WIMM, Gouge they are all great pop songs. I've always thought the Pixies have far more in common with Abba or Buzzcocks than Nirvana or Sonic Youth. Yes I get some of the wonderful and weirdo stylings from the early days are gone. But I mean we are talking about music written in the flush of youth. Charles never lost his sense of melody which is what I dig most of all. |
Edited by - Sprite on 08/11/2022 14:08:36 |
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Troubles A Foot
= Cult of Ray =
USA
959 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2022 : 14:28:41
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I've said this before but the reason Doolittle is so fun is because every other song is a great single and every other song is a bizarro insane Pixies nightmare.
That's what I feel is lost now. It feels like Dalgety wants every song to be played on the radio. Yes, even slightly weirder ones like Birds of Prey, etc. They are still very polished sounding for a mainstream audience.
And Surfer Rosa, I mean yeah, Gigantic and WIMM are singles. What about the rest of the album?
I just think Dalgety has a very boring approach to the band and their albums and also his own personal tastes. I want to hear what would happen with a new producer. |
Edited by - Troubles A Foot on 08/11/2022 14:30:55 |
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3910 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2022 : 14:40:48
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quote:
Originally posted by SpriteI've always thought the Pixies have far more in common with Abba or Buzzcocks than Nirvana or Sonic Youth.
Interesting take. Lots to unpack there. |
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3910 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2022 : 14:50:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Troubles A Foot
It feels like Dalgety wants every song to be played on the radio.
Happened to turn BBC Radio 6 on the other day just as River Euphrates came on - it was one of those real turn the volume up and enjoy the endorphine rush moments.
Can't really see any of Dalgety singles having quite the same impact - not even in 30 years time when we all might be back to living like 19th century peasants again. Actually in that particular future dystopia it might be (hypothetically) quite a buzz to spontaneously hear a Dalgety song if (say) there's no electrity powered music anymore and you find an old iPod with just enough battery left to play one song.
There's a question for the forum: Not wishing to digress off thread too much of course - but what if you lived in a nightmare futuristic dystopian world like Mad Max or something like that and you haven't heard any music played on any music system for years - just the distant memories of all your favourite Pixies songs. What if you found an iPod with the entire Pixies catalogue on it and there was just enough battery left to listen to one song. What Pixies song would you choose? |
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Troubles A Foot
= Cult of Ray =
USA
959 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2022 : 17:06:26
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| Good question. I would choose...damn. Dig For Fire? Motorway to Roswell? Those two mean a lot to me. |
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3910 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2022 : 21:47:26
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| I might just go for River Euphrates again - bearing in mind a great deal of time will have passed before the aforementioned apocalyptic scenario comes into play, hypothetically. I'm thinking if I'm stuck in some desert and there's a heatwave and all the various steam punk factions are fighting over fuel then I could imagine that I am actually in the Gaza Strip and I've run out of gas while listening to Frank Black sing about that very thing. Then, going forward any time I actually run out of gas (which I expect would happen frequently) the Pixies would pop into my head again making everything less bad. |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6214 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2022 : 23:18:21
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Velouria or Ana
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3910 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2022 : 23:56:24
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quote:
Originally posted by billgoodman
Velouria or Ana
Very good choices |
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Sprite
* Dog in the Sand *
1335 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2022 : 02:12:14
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| River Euphrates (single), All over the World or No.13 Baby (with the extended outro somebody put up on You Tube) |
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Sprite
* Dog in the Sand *
1335 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2022 : 02:22:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Troubles A Foot
I've said this before but the reason Doolittle is so fun is because every other song is a great single and every other song is a bizarro insane Pixies nightmare.
That's what I feel is lost now. It feels like Dalgety wants every song to be played on the radio. Yes, even slightly weirder ones like Birds of Prey, etc. They are still very polished sounding for a mainstream audience.
And Surfer Rosa, I mean yeah, Gigantic and WIMM are singles. What about the rest of the album?
I just think Dalgety has a very boring approach to the band and their albums and also his own personal tastes. I want to hear what would happen with a new producer.
I'd add Cactus and Bone Machine. I'd be happy with a new producer but I am not sure it would make so much difference. Imagine if Dalgety had produced every Pixies 2.0 record, we'd all be going bring back Gil Norton. When I heard Gil was producing the first comeback album I was stoked. But in the end while Indie Cindy of course has some great moments it's still quite flawed and I don't think Gil got the best out of them (mind you losing your bass player in the middle of recording didn't help). I listen to BTE so much more than IC. |
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3910 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2022 : 02:28:03
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| Also good choices (especially All Over The World - I love the second half of that song it takes me back to sitting on the train the day after they played 3 songs at the SECC in 1991) I feel I have derailed the thread off the main topic (again) so maybe this should have it's own thread.. |
Edited by - pot on 08/12/2022 02:28:19 |
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Bedbug
> Teenager of the Year <
3156 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2022 : 05:33:53
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Of the 35 songs at Amsterdam concert 6 are 2.0. That seems to be the ratio they have been doing. I still think if they could add in a few from IC and a couple more from HC and BTE then everybody would be happy. Well, not everybody probably.
I'm trying to think of a word that rhymes with Dalgety so that one of you forum musicians can write a song about him. |
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Brank_Flack
* Dog in the Sand *
Canada
1019 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2022 : 05:40:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Sprite
I don't get this Pixies are trying to produce big hit rock/pop songs at all. It was the same back in day - Debaser, Euphrates, Gigantic, HCYM, Levitate Me, WIMM, Gouge they are all great pop songs. I've always thought the Pixies have far more in common with Abba or Buzzcocks than Nirvana or Sonic Youth. Yes I get some of the wonderful and weirdo stylings from the early days are gone. But I mean we are talking about music written in the flush of youth. Charles never lost his sense of melody which is what I dig most of all.
Some good points here that I agree with. Charles is and always has been a great writer of melody. Also a great writer of oddballs, but a lot of the early Pixies thrashers and weirdos were the pure distillation of youthful nervous energy.
One part I have to quibble with: Kurt Cobain was also a great writer of melody who also listened to a lot of Abba and the early Beatles. As we've read a million times, Kurt Cobain wanted to rip off Debaser because he thought it was a perfect "pop" song. So I do think Nirvana and the Pixies have a very similar DNA (even if there are sharp points of departure). I'll admit Nirvana was my first love as a tweenager and pointed me towards the Pixies as a teen. |
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Doggerel
