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Bedbug
* Dog in the Sand *

2233 Posts

Posted - 10/25/2019 :  18:40:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Please

pot
> Teenager of the Year <

Iceland
3191 Posts

Posted - 10/25/2019 :  22:25:13  Show Profile  Visit pot's Homepage  Reply with Quote
17.4 Million people voted for it, and they all knew what they were voting for so it needs to be done

The following infomercial from the 1970's explains it better than anyone can

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWkmYraB3Rs
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Bedbug
* Dog in the Sand *

2233 Posts

Posted - 10/26/2019 :  03:52:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Wow, that was indeed interesting, thank you
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <

Iceland
3191 Posts

Posted - 10/26/2019 :  06:44:46  Show Profile  Visit pot's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Consistent the levels of madness currently surrounding the affair.

Where you from bug? I mean, I can have a go at summarising the current political landscape of "the UK" if you like but would it be for the educational pursuits of someone who lives within the UK or somewhere else, eg. America or Mainland Europe?
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <

Iceland
3191 Posts

Posted - 10/26/2019 :  08:17:56  Show Profile  Visit pot's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Well I don't know much about the history of the EU and how the UK joined it (through a referendum in the 70's) or the Maastricht Treaty, but this is what I know:

The EU started off as a kind of treaty between the nations of Europe for trading, but more recently with the development of the EU Parliament and the EU Commission it has started to become more hegemonic and (some feel) undemocratic (since the EU Parliament can't raise bills to be passed, they can only vote on them and the EU Commission is comprised several members who are appointed by the EU Parliament and who make all the decision behind closed curtains). So naturally some people, from both the left and the right have issues with the construction of the EU, and it has been labelled a "gravy train" by many.

A right wing faction in the UK called the ERG (European Research Group) and UKIP (the UK Indpendence Party which recently branched of into The Brexit Party) and headed by Nigel Farage lobbied the government for years to hold a referendum on leaving the EU. They argued (among other things) that the EU and the trade rules which it imposes on the UK are too restrictive and don't allow the UK to trade as freely with the rest of the world as it might otherwise, and they think this is having a negative impact on the UK economy.

Part of being in EU member is that we are a member of the Customs Union and the Single Market, and one of these things sets tariffs on all imports and exports so that countries can't exploit lower tariffs by importing/exporting through other countries in the EU (since there is free movement of goods/people) and gives certains countries unfair economic advantages over others. The ERG don't like this.

The EU referendum in 2016 was not a legally binding referendum, but an advisory referendum (cf. the Scottish Independence referendum in 2014 that was legally binding). The UK government at the time pledged that they would honour the result of the 2016 referendum, however since we live in the UK in a parliamentary democracy, and our elected representatives are there to do what's in/or what they think is in the interest of the country the problem so far has largely been around the fact that despite the government pledging to honour the result of the referendum they still need the UK parliament to agree on it through voting on it, and the current 650 elected MPs are all about as split over it all as the country. Some want to stay in the EU, some want to leave, some want to leave but stay in the Customs Union, some want to leave but stay in the Customs Union AND Single Market, and some want another referendum since many (including myself) beleive that people were not aware of, or informed about the true consequences of leaving the EU and many will have changed their mind.

When Theresa May held the snap election in 2017 it was because she believed that she could win it and gain seats, because at the time the tories only had a majority in parliament of (i think) 2 seats and she needed parliament to vote Brexit through and with some of her own party (incluiding herself) being remainers it would be easier if she increased her back benches. She also called the election in order to run her campaign on deliver Brexit, thus giving further legal consent to the government's pledge to honour the result of the referendum.

However, she lost the election and there was a hung parliament. So in order to remain in power the only thing she could do was propose a coalition with one or more of the other parties, and the only party who would deal with her then were the DUP. The LIb Dems previously went into coalition with the tories in 2010, however this was not possible again in 2017 because the Lib Dems are a strongly remain party and will not compromise on that. The DUP (Democratic Unionist Party) in Northern Ireland are kind of right wing like the tories and they want Northern Ireland to stay in the UK. She offered them a bribe of £1Billion in return for their votes in parliament, however it was not a coalition as such and many people (to this day) are not very happy about it, not least Scotland because it disproportionately awarded money to NI. Lawyers have tried to take the government to court over this and failed (because they were blackmailed I heard).

One of the biggest hurdles to getting Brexit through parliament is The Good Friday agreement (which was agreed by Tony Blair's Labour government
in 1997) and led to peace in NI, a cessation of IRA activity in exchange for ceratin conditions. One of the conditions was that there would be no border in Ireland, and if the whole of the UK leaves the EU then there will have to be a customs border between Ireland and Northern Ireland again and noone in Ireland anywhere wants that because it could lead to a return to sectarian violence. The IRA have recently threatened to attack any border guards if they are returned, so it's quite a serious matter.

So this is the main reason why the UK government can't get their stupid Brexit deals through parliament, because they have failed to offer a compromise over the Irish Border issue that has satisfied the DUP (who they need to vote for it).

Labour have proposed that we leave the EU but remain in the customs union, and that would solve this problem but the the ERG (who are hardline "no deal" Brexiters) don't like that because (it is said) they themselves will stand to gain from leaving the EU since the EU have just abolished some loopholes they were using to evade paying tax.

The SNP have propsed that we leave the EU but remain in both the Customs Union AND the Single Market, but the government has point black refused to listen to Scotland or compromise with us, which has led to a resurgence in the the independence movement. We are hoping for another Scottish independence referendum next year but we need the UK government to sign a Section 30 order which makes the result legally binding and they have refused to do that (so far).

If we remain in the CU & SM then we as UK citizens will retain free movement in the EU, and this is what I and many are hoping for. Alterantively the EU are considering offering all the UK citizens the chance to apply for EU citizenship if we leave.

So currently we remain in deadlocked situation, with the tories losing the support of the DUP and removing the whip from 20 odd of their MPs because they voted against the whip so they are what is known as a "zombie government". Everyone wants an election to sort this out, but in order for that happen it needs to be voted through parliament AND it requires 2/3 of parliament to vote for it. In 2011 David Cameron introduced the Fixed-Term Parliament Act which tied the government to 5 years in office, and an interim election could only happen if 2/3 voted for it. This was designed to secure the tories in power for (at least 5 years) because they didn't have a big majority. However it has lately become an obstacle towards them getting an election, and the opposition parties are refusing to vote for it until Boris Johnson takes a No Deal Brexit off the table (knowing they currently hold all the cards).

A no deal brexit would be a disaster for many businesses since all the details about trade between the UK and Europe will have to be renegotiated and this could take years. In any event, if we eventually leave the EU and CU and SM there will have to be years of negotiation anyway, so any final date of leaving is only the start.
And Scotland voted to remain by 62% (as did NI). Every constituency in Scotland voted to remain, yet we are being dragged out against our will AND Boris's last deal he failed to get through offered NI the chance to remain in the CU and SM (which the SNP offered as a compromise right from the start). So naturally Scotland is not very happy with this bullshit at all...

We were told by the UK government in 2014 in teh run up to the Scottish independence referendum that "the only way to stay in the EU is to vote to stay in the UK." Now they are trying to drag us out of the EU against our will and refusing to let us run another referendum. The tories are rats and can't be trusted on anything and I personally hate the f**king lot of them!

I hope that helps anyway bugsters. I'm not looking through all that for types or grammar fuck ups sorry. Feel free to ask any questions, I've been following this closely and it's all quite interesting and educational for me about how the UK parliament actually works. It really is a joke, it's like we're stuck in the 12th century or something.
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <

Iceland
3191 Posts

Posted - 10/26/2019 :  11:14:38  Show Profile  Visit pot's Homepage  Reply with Quote
By the way I voted for Brexit in 2016. I'm one of the 17.4 million.

The Scottish referendum got 3 years to prepare. The Brexit vote was annouced and had in 3 months. People were not informed about the full details of the referendum and were lied to so the result can't be used for the UK to just leave the EU, seriously?

I voted out of principles, and not knowing the consequences. I still disagree with there being an EU Comission but I now want to just stay. The main reason for that is I want to retain the ability to jump on a plane for £30 and land in Amsterdam 1 hour later and then go and sit in bars and smoke weed. It seems like a lame reason to want to stay in the EU but when you've lived for ten years under the rule of law in the UK and ..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oolEWYrK_Oo

Edited by - pot on 10/26/2019 11:18:20
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <

Iceland
3191 Posts

Posted - 10/26/2019 :  13:39:55  Show Profile  Visit pot's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I think we need to stop this

I think we need to stop this now, and reflect on everything?

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Discoking
= Cult of Ray =

Belgium
891 Posts

Posted - 10/26/2019 :  22:27:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
thanks for writing that out.

have you ever voted in an election to the european parliament, pot?


it's educational
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Bedbug
* Dog in the Sand *

2233 Posts

Posted - 10/26/2019 :  23:43:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Pot I love you

I will take the time to read all that this week. Thank you for taking the time, seriously.

I am from the States
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <

Iceland
3191 Posts

Posted - 10/27/2019 :  02:25:34  Show Profile  Visit pot's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I've never voted in the EU Parliament elections no, although I would have voted SNP in the elections last May but I had to leave due to unforseen circumstances (breaking ankle) and didn't arrange a postal vote in time.

I stopped voting after 1997 due to Tony Blair, but restarted in 2014 for the independence referendum.

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Bedbug
* Dog in the Sand *

2233 Posts

Posted - 10/28/2019 :  06:01:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
What does this mean:

"Alterantively the EU are considering offering all the UK citizens the chance to apply for EU citizenship if we leave."
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <

Iceland
3191 Posts

Posted - 10/28/2019 :  07:51:54  Show Profile  Visit pot's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Bedbug

What does this mean:

"Alterantively the EU are considering offering all the UK citizens the chance to apply for EU citizenship if we leave."



Part of being in the EU is all citizens of member states have free movement within the EU. Some states that are not members of the EU like Switzerland have an agreement with the EU for free movement within what is known as the Schengen Area, which isn't entirely the same. The UK opted not to be a member of the Schengen Area, however as part of (I think) membership of the Single Market UK citizens have free movement within the EU (and reciprocaly citizens from other EU member states have freedom of movement within the UK). I'm not sure if we need to be both a member of the Customs Union and the Single Market to retain these rights outside of the EU, but I know that being part of the Customs Union alone isn't enough. As part of this deal we are also afforded the right to stay in any EU country indefinately, without requiring a VISA or a VISA for work. We also get free healthcare, and I have enjoyed some of these benefits for a few years living in Holland. If we leave the EU AND the Customs Union and the Single Market UK citizens will lose these freedoms and it has been suggested that we will be required to apply for some sort of VISA at a cost of £7 that will allow us to stay in the EU for up to 90 days at a time (then we have to leave for 90 days before we can return).

Recently though some EU officials have hinted that they might offer UK citizens the chance to retain some of the benefits of being a citizen in a member state of the EU (not least since leaving the EU is going to adversely affect a lot of ex-pats living in some EU countries at present) by offering us the chance to apply for citizenship of the EU (which we still currently have but stand to lose). I don't know the details of this proposal, or what it will involve and I don't think anyone really does at this time. However I think it just means citizenship of Europe, like being a citizen of a country. The right to live there and work there.

Some countries have offered some concessions already for UK citizens who have settled there, and Scotland has offered some for EU citizens living in a working in Scotland.

Some people living in the UK stand to lose pensions they worked for for many years in the EU if we leave.
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Discoking
= Cult of Ray =

Belgium
891 Posts

Posted - 11/04/2019 :  22:17:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
so, pot, how are you going to vote in december?
are you voting tactically, against brexit, or will you vote for the party or person that works best for you in general.

is there any chance the conservatives and brexit won't win the election?

i heard the system with electoral districts is quite unfair. if you live in the wrong place, your vote doesn't really count towards the end result. so even if most people vote against brexit (indirectly, as this is an election, and not another brexit referendum), brexit mps could still get a big majority. is that true?


it's educational
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <

Iceland
3191 Posts

Posted - 11/05/2019 :  01:27:21  Show Profile  Visit pot's Homepage  Reply with Quote
The electoral system is usually rigged in some way in favour of the tories. They are well known for changing constituency boundaries to redistribute votes in their favour.

I'll be voting SNP, same as in 2017. I spoiled my ballot paper in 2015, but now I am so fed up with the way things are and these rotten tory b*****ds that I will vote for whoever is best placed to get rid of them. I quite like the SNP, but I'm not 100% happy with them. I have some gripes (mainly their drug policy which reflects the standard "treat drugs as a health issue" trope and panders to the misonception that medical cannabis is good/recreational is bad, but we'll tolerate it) but overall the SNP are one of the most progressive parties in the whole of the UK at the moment. Even the EU tends to agree with that.

I used to be a Labour voter (until I voted Tony Blair in in 1997 and he instantly turned out to be a George W Bush ass licking, warmonger) but more recently Jeremy Corbyn has restored the party to it's original (some may say Marxist) socialist values, and not everyone in the party (particularly the red tory Blairites) are happy with him, hence the media onslaught of antisemitism and being an IRA terrorist symapthiser. Neither of these allegations have any basis in reality but the right wing factions have used them consistently over the past 3 years to smear him.

So, basically I'm in Scotland right on the Border to England. And I actually am right on the border, I have to walk to England for all my shopping (which is handy for things like beer since the SNP instroduced their nanny state MUP (Minimum Alcohol Price) law a few years ago. My constituency was one of the 12 SNP constituencies won back by the tories in 2017. Previously, in 2015 the SNP took nearly all the 59 seats in Scotland (bar one tory and one Lib Dem I think) and so more or less all these seats are marginal tory versus SNP seats which means a lot of people will be either voting for the SNP or (hopefuly at least) voting SNP tactically to oust the tories. Right now the SNP are polling high and look set to sweep most or all of the seats in Scotland again, like in 2015.

Scotland has always traditionally been a Labour voting country, however since the #indyref in 2014 most of the left wing Labour voters have switched across to the SNP leaving the political landscape in Scotland pretty much dominated by SNP versus the unionist tory vote. Labour have pissed off a lot of people in Scotland through their unionist policy and recent denial to allow us to have a 2nd #indyref2 in light of the change in the political landscape since 2014 (when we were promised that we would stay in the EU). The Labour party was also formed in Scotland at the start of the 20th century by a Scotsman called Keir Hardie.

So overall what we are looking at is... quite complex. The tories and Labour are split by the Brexit result, which is why we have seen some tory MPs resigning and defecting to the Lib Dems (who are pledging to revoke Article 50 if elected, which is unlikely). The Lib Dems are often called the Yellow Tories and I presonally think their hidden agenda is to split the left wing/remain vote and enable another tory government. However, The Brexit Party are going to stand 600 candidates against the tories and they have offered a pact with them but the tories rejected this so hopefully (fingers crossed) they willl split the right wing/tory brexit vote enough to give Labour enough seats to either win (unlikely) or be the largest party in another hung parliament.

Nobody really knows what's going to happen. Everyone (most people) thought the tories would win in 2017 since they were polling the highest. I, however predicted a hung parliament then and I was right. I'm predicting another hung parliament in this one (which most people are) and so the result I'm personally holding out for (please god) is that Labour take a slight majority of seats in a hung parliament and can then form a coalition government with the SNP (and maybe the Greens?) if only just to see those smug tory b****ds faces from the opposition benches as they look across at Jeremy Corbyn as PM and Ian Blackford as deputy PM.

That would be good for both Scotland and the UK (especially the disadvantaged who have been hit so hard by the tory's ruthless austerity policy during the last decade) and I'm sure the SNP would make the granting of a Section 30 order to hold a 2nd #indyref2 in 2020 a red line. But how Scotland would then vote in light of a new government is unclear. The political landscape in Scotland has consistently meant that we are never really truly represented in UK parliament so we really need to be fully autonomous politically. I would like to hope also that a new Labour/SNP government would have the good sense to completely reform/overhaul the parliamentary system in the UK in favour of proportional representation (and get rid of the House of Lords!).

There is also a campaign to oust Boris Johnson by a new Labour candidate (they only need a 5% swing to do so) and this would be the first time in history that a sitting PM will have lost his seat in an election, so fingers crossed for that too.

And the SNP are going to do their best to oust Jo Swinson (the new leader of the Lib Dems) who refused to enter a pact with Labour and the SNP a few weeks ago to oust the tories through a Vote of No Confidence and form a temporary caretaker government with Jeremy Corbyn as PM (because she thought he was too divisive). Jo Swinson, who was part of the tory/Lib Dem coalition 2010-2015 who voted with the tories for a number of policies that has brought nothing buy hardship and suffering to the poor and disabled and driven many people to suicide/death from starvation. Stupid b***t playing student politics. If we end up with another tory government for 5 years and a hard Brexit then it'll be her fault!

As much as I have my difference with Corbyn he is a good, honest, decent politician who would do his best for people who have been hit hardest by tory austerity, and save the NHS etc. Some think he is too old and frail but he has worked tirelessly, travelling up and down the country (by train) holding conferences and apparently (at the ripe old age of 70) he jogs.

EDIT: Seems like Labour are now looking to adopt what was the SNP's policy to compromise on Brexit right from the start: remain in the Customs Union and Single Market! I'd be happy with that as it would mean I'd retain the freedom to live and work in Europe as long as I wanted. But the ERG wont like it...

Edited by - pot on 11/05/2019 03:16:55
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Discoking
= Cult of Ray =

Belgium
891 Posts

Posted - 11/06/2019 :  02:27:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
fingers crossed for boris losing his seat. 5% sounds achievable.

would there be much point to a brexit where the UK stays in the customs union and single market? how different is that from staying in the EU altogether?
the UK would have to follow all the EU trade rules, but won't have a say in them anymore (as they would no longer be represented in the EU parliament) ...
but i guess that's also going to be situation in any other brexit scenario, after new trade deals with the EU have been made: EU is going to stick to their rules. they won't change them for a deal with the UK. UK will have to follow. right?

and why did corbyn insist on becoming the PM after that vote of no confidence? couldn't they have found a candidate everyone was happy with?
you can blame that lib dem woman, but doesn't it entirely depend on how you look at it? might as well blame corbyn for demanding to become the PM (career over case), if you follow my (not very well informed, i have to admit) point of view.


it's educational
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <

Iceland
3191 Posts

Posted - 11/06/2019 :  03:27:58  Show Profile  Visit pot's Homepage  Reply with Quote
The way a Vote of No Confidence works is the party with the 2nd highest number of seats gets first shot at forming a coalition government. A VONC would therefore automatically default to Jeremy Corbyn in the first instance. If no agreement can be reached then it triggers a general election.

Of course, in order to ensure a VONC goes through the opposition parties will negotiate beforehand, and the sticking point last time was Jo Swinson. Corbyn didn't demand anything, or needed to demand anything. This is how the system works.

It's not very fair if there was a VONC and it defaulted to whoever Jo Swinson thought was the best person for caretake PM. She wanted Ken Clarke, a self-confessed alcoholic who (when he was Chairman of the Cambridge University Conservative Association) invited former British Fascist leader Sir Oswald Mosley to speak for two years in succession, prompting some Jewish students to resign in protest. Ken Clarke was also part of the government that was being voted out of confidence. It's like having a general election and there's a hung parliament and Jo Swinson saying she didn't want the leader of the party with the most votes to have first shot at forming a coalition. She was happy to join David Cameron's cabinet in 2010 though. See season 5 of Peaky Blinders for more on Oswald Mosely, who is portayed as a character in it.

Jo Swinson complains that Corbyn is divisive, presumably refering in some part to his alleged failure to deal with so called anti-semitism allegations within his own party, but she's happy to go with Ken Clarke.

And one Corbyn's biggest critics from within his own party, Margaret Hodge? (who is recorded calling him a "f**king antisemite") oversaw the destruction of a old Jewish cemetary while she the Councillor for the London Borough of Islington. Jewish cemetaries are considered sacred and the local Jesish community were up in arms about it being bought and redeveloped. While she sat on her arse and did nothing though, who was out campaigning to save this Jewish cemetary? Jeremy Corbyn. That's how much of a "f**king antisemite" he is! All the man has done is try to bring his party together, and do what's right for everyone, in the face of smears from all sides including his own deputy leader (who he blocked the Labour party members from having him deselected).

As for leaving the EU, I actually voted for Brexit on the basis that I didn't want to be under the rule of the EU Commission. Like many people I didn't fully understand the consequences and complexities of the whole situation. So I guess "leaving the EU" meant and means different things to different people. If we leave the customs union and single market we will still have to spend years negotiating trade deals and tarifs. I fail to see how we will be in a better position to negotiate outside of these unions though?

I honestly don't fully understand how it all works. I don't actually think anyone in the entire world does.

As for Boris, I heard a rumour he is considering relocating to stand in his home constituency or something (not sure)?

I hope that toffee-nosed pencil case Jacob Rees-Mogg gets the boot anyway. He's my number one hopeful for getting voted out. He really is a odious little man, and his comments yesterday about Grenfell have not gone down well with the country (he suggested the residents should have had the common sense to ignore the advice from the fire brigade and try to get, by walking down hundreds of flights of stairs into fire and smoke!). The guy is a f**king MORON! He's dumber than Donald Trump. And he'a a stuck up, racist tory b... Hopefully this will turn the voters against him, he's in a safe seat though.
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trobrianders
> Teenager of the Year <

Papua New Guinea
3302 Posts

Posted - 11/06/2019 :  15:35:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The UK should never have left the EU. England should have left the UK
1. England automatically expelled from EU
2. EU left holding stinky bag of Ireland, Scotland,Wales and NI.

The whole Brexit process was always really about the drawn out realisation that England needs to be free of the UK not only the EU.

_______________
Ed is the hoo hoo
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <

Iceland
3191 Posts

Posted - 11/07/2019 :  00:22:06  Show Profile  Visit pot's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by trobrianders

The UK should never have left the EU. England should have left the UK
1. England automatically expelled from EU
2. EU left holding stinky bag of Ireland, Scotland,Wales and NI.

The whole Brexit process was always really about the drawn out realisation that England needs to be free of the UK not only the EU.

_______________
Ed is the hoo hoo



And presumably (in this fantasy reality of yours) the nu-UK parliament would be re-assembled at stinky Holyrood, in stinky Edinburgh?
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trobrianders
> Teenager of the Year <

Papua New Guinea
3302 Posts

Posted - 11/07/2019 :  03:26:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by pot

quote:
Originally posted by trobrianders

The UK should never have left the EU. England should have left the UK
1. England automatically expelled from EU
2. EU left holding stinky bag of Ireland, Scotland,Wales and NI.

The whole Brexit process was always really about the drawn out realisation that England needs to be free of the UK not only the EU.

_______________
Ed is the hoo hoo



And presumably (in this fantasy reality of yours) the nu-UK parliament would be re-assembled at stinky Holyrood, in stinky Edinburgh?

Aye, that'd be braw. Never gonnae happen.

_______________
Ed is the hoo hoo
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <

Iceland
3191 Posts

Posted - 11/07/2019 :  08:11:09  Show Profile  Visit pot's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by trobrianders
Aye, that'd be braw. Never gonnae happen.



Say's who, the loony yoon brigade?

"It'll never happen" has oft been said..

If the government insists on dragging Scotland out of the EU against the will of the voters, and refuse to grant a Section 30 order then the Scottish Government will hold a referendum anyway, next year and if the result comes back leave we will have a mandate to leave the union and we will leave. We already have a mandate.

Edited by - pot on 11/07/2019 08:12:08
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trobrianders
> Teenager of the Year <

Papua New Guinea
3302 Posts

Posted - 11/07/2019 :  12:14:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
No, I mean England will never quit the UK.

Scotland's will was to remain in the UK and abide by UK decisions, including referendum decisions. Scots that say otherwise aren't Scots, they're the lackeys of international capital.

_______________
Ed is the hoo hoo
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <

Iceland
3191 Posts

Posted - 11/07/2019 :  12:26:38  Show Profile  Visit pot's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by trobrianders

No, I mean England will never quit the UK.

Scotland's will was to remain in the UK and abide by UK decisions, including referendum decisions. Scots that say otherwise aren't Scots, they're the lackeys of international capital.

_______________
Ed is the hoo hoo



England wants to quit the UK as well.

Who are you anyway? Some guy from an island in the Pacific. Are you a British ex-pat?

Referenda run on lies and possible electoral fraud don't count for shit. Westminster is rotten to the core and the entire world can see that now. When Scotland demands our freedom we will have the world on our side if the bastards decide to go all Spain vs Catalonia on our asses.

This shit cannot continue and Scotland is not going to stand for it.

England IS the UK. 533 English constituency MPs vs 40 Welsh, 18 NI and 59 Scottish? Let them try and tell us we can't go our own way next year.

And we need their permission to leave? F**k Westminster!
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trobrianders
> Teenager of the Year <

Papua New Guinea
3302 Posts

Posted - 11/08/2019 :  00:28:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Any referendum you don't win is illegitimate? There's a word for people like that; Anti-democrat. Fascist is a better word.

Scotland won't vote to leave the UK. Scots don't have that kind of confidence. They're dependent on free stuff from England. Scots are angry but not at England. They're angry at themselves for being so weak. Scots would fight to stop England leaving the UK.

_______________
Ed is the hoo hoo
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <

Iceland
3191 Posts

Posted - 11/08/2019 :  00:36:24  Show Profile  Visit pot's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by trobrianders

Any referendum you don't win is illegitimate? There's a word for people like that; Anti-democrat. Fascist is a better word.

Scotland won't vote to leave the UK. Scots don't have that kind of confidence. They're dependent on free stuff from England. Scots are angry but not at England. They're angry at themselves for being so weak. Scots would fight to stop England leaving the UK.




Keep your sorry arse gammon insults to yourself.
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trobrianders
> Teenager of the Year <

Papua New Guinea
3302 Posts

Posted - 11/08/2019 :  00:54:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
What are you going to do when Scots vote a second time to remain in the UK?

_______________
Ed is the hoo hoo
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <

Iceland
3191 Posts

Posted - 11/08/2019 :  01:01:03  Show Profile  Visit pot's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Ah. Now I know what your name means: Trollbrianders

If the tone of the debate continues to descend into the gutter, then I'm afraid Bedbug you'll have to get the low down on Brexit and the General Election from elsewhere. Sorry, but I don't need to read this sort of bile, or listen to tired cliches that appear to be presented in some sort of an effort to get a rise out of me.
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trobrianders
> Teenager of the Year <

Papua New Guinea
3302 Posts

Posted - 11/08/2019 :  05:14:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Victim much? One of Krankie's victims?

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Ed is the hoo hoo
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Discoking
= Cult of Ray =

Belgium
891 Posts

Posted - 11/08/2019 :  09:30:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
lololololo!


it's educational
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <

Iceland
3191 Posts

Posted - 11/08/2019 :  10:42:51  Show Profile  Visit pot's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Glad you all find the devastation this tory government has brought to poor, sick and disabled people's lives over the past ten years, Grenfell, Windrush, the dismantling of our vital services, food banks, drug addiction spiraling out of control, homelessness rising as a result of Universal Credit payments being delayed, people with no arms or legs or people who've got 6 weeks left to live being told they can't get any help from the state and are fit for work, homeless people being attacked by gangs, people taking their own lives because they can't feed themselves, mothers of children with life threatening epilepsy having to travel to Europe and remortgage their houses to saves their kids lives so FUCKING HILARIOUS! I wont bother engaging a civil debate about politics on here again.

Edited by - pot on 11/08/2019 10:44:17
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Discoking
= Cult of Ray =

Belgium
891 Posts

Posted - 11/08/2019 :  18:58:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
yes, that's what we all find, obviously.



it's educational
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trobrianders
> Teenager of the Year <

Papua New Guinea
3302 Posts

Posted - 11/09/2019 :  13:04:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by pot

Glad you all find the devastation this tory government has brought to poor, sick and disabled people's lives over the past ten years, Grenfell, Windrush, the dismantling of our vital services, food banks, drug addiction spiraling out of control, homelessness rising as a result of Universal Credit payments being delayed, people with no arms or legs or people who've got 6 weeks left to live being told they can't get any help from the state and are fit for work, homeless people being attacked by gangs, people taking their own lives because they can't feed themselves, mothers of children with life threatening epilepsy having to travel to Europe and remortgage their houses to saves their kids lives so FUCKING HILARIOUS! I wont bother engaging a civil debate about politics on here again.

Poor, sick and disabled? Have you got a checklist or something? Stop whining, get a job and be of use.

_______________
Ed is the hoo hoo
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <

Iceland
3191 Posts

Posted - 11/09/2019 :  13:32:37  Show Profile  Visit pot's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by trobrianders
Poor, sick and disabled? Have you got a checklist or something? Stop whining, get a job and be of use



What do you do for a living?




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trobrianders
> Teenager of the Year <

Papua New Guinea
3302 Posts

Posted - 11/09/2019 :  14:02:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by pot

quote:
Originally posted by trobrianders
Poor, sick and disabled? Have you got a checklist or something? Stop whining, get a job and be of use



What do you do for a living?


I get paid huge sums of public money to slash funding to poor, sick disabled people for the sole purpose of keeping you an unhappy adolescent well into middle age.

_______________
Ed is the hoo hoo
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <

Iceland
3191 Posts

Posted - 11/09/2019 :  14:07:51  Show Profile  Visit pot's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by trobrianders

quote:
Originally posted by pot

quote:
Originally posted by trobrianders
Poor, sick and disabled? Have you got a checklist or something? Stop whining, get a job and be of use



What do you do for a living?


I get paid huge sums of public money to slash funding to poor, sick disabled people for the sole purpose of keeping you an unhappy adolescent well into middle age.

_______________
Ed is the hoo hoo



Look at my post in the art section about my new wesbite. In there you will find (against my will) the address of where I live in the "United Kingdom" Webistes are all registered to addresses and you need to pay to hide this information.

Who are you? I remember years ago you had a wife who was coming from South America to Edinburgh and was asking for advice on where to go, right?

If you are going to talk down to me then I would like to know who you are.
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trobrianders
> Teenager of the Year <

Papua New Guinea
3302 Posts

Posted - 11/10/2019 :  01:58:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by pot

quote:
Originally posted by trobrianders

quote:
Originally posted by pot

quote:
Originally posted by trobrianders
Poor, sick and disabled? Have you got a checklist or something? Stop whining, get a job and be of use



What do you do for a living?


I get paid huge sums of public money to slash funding to poor, sick disabled people for the sole purpose of keeping you an unhappy adolescent well into middle age.

_______________
Ed is the hoo hoo



Look at my post in the art section about my new wesbite. In there you will find (against my will) the address of where I live in the "United Kingdom" Webistes are all registered to addresses and you need to pay to hide this information.

Who are you? I remember years ago you had a wife who was coming from South America to Edinburgh and was asking for advice on where to go, right?

If you are going to talk down to me then I would like to know who you are.

How are your poor, sick disabled people today? Where do you keep them? In the cupboard? Under the bed?

_______________
Ed is the hoo hoo
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Bedbug
* Dog in the Sand *

2233 Posts

Posted - 11/11/2019 :  06:13:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Iíve really enjoyed this thread.

Not sure I understand more than I did before, but I feel the feelings.
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