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picpic
* Dog in the Sand *

Belgium
1791 Posts

Posted - 09/17/2019 :  01:13:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Fuck, the demos rocks.
Were those recorded in early 2018 before the actual sessions ?
Joey in particuluar sounds fantastic. I don't know if it's better than BTE, but he sounds... fresh (off-pressure, maybe ?)

___
"Service Unavailable"
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johnnyribcage
* Dog in the Sand *

USA
1112 Posts

Posted - 09/17/2019 :  04:00:15  Show Profile  Visit johnnyribcage's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by picpic

Fuck, the demos rocks.
Were those recorded in early 2018 before the actual sessions ?
Joey in particuluar sounds fantastic. I don't know if it's better than BTE, but he sounds... fresh (off-pressure, maybe ?)

___
"Service Unavailable"



Remember Joey and Paz posting Instagram pics of the band at Sonelab in Easthampton back in March? I assumed these were recorded at those sessions. I donít know though, thatís just my guess.


I had a bad reaction to your public hobby writings.
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stuczuba
= Cult of Ray =

416 Posts

Posted - 09/17/2019 :  04:36:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Sprite

Try this. It's just the MP3s. I have to head to work now.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/18c2yjs61q7c54a/BTE_demos.zip?dl=0





Thank you!

Real 60s, garagey vibe to these. Joey's magnificent in places.
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jake3
- FB Fan -

United Kingdom
210 Posts

Posted - 09/17/2019 :  04:43:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by johnnyribcage

quote:
Originally posted by picpic

Fuck, the demos rocks.
Were those recorded in early 2018 before the actual sessions ?
Joey in particuluar sounds fantastic. I don't know if it's better than BTE, but he sounds... fresh (off-pressure, maybe ?)

___
"Service Unavailable"



Remember Joey and Paz posting Instagram pics of the band at Sonelab in Easthampton back in March? I assumed these were recorded at those sessions. I donít know though, thatís just my guess.


I had a bad reaction to your public hobby writings.



I don't know where it was at (though Sonelab would make sense) but yes the March 2018 date is correct.
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McDutchie
= Cult of Ray =

Netherlands
260 Posts

Posted - 09/17/2019 :  05:01:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sprite, you're a hero!

I'm listening to them alphabetically now, but for those who care about sequencing, this should be the track list in the correct order, based on the timestamps in the .zip:

1. The_good_works_of_Cyrus.mp3
2. Please_dont_go.mp3
3. Chapel_Hill.mp3
4. Caught_in_a_dream.mp3
5. Mal_de_Mar.mp3
6. Hey_Debussy.mp3
7. Under_the_Marigold.mp3
8. How_I_learned_to_earn_rewards.mp3
9. I_just_cant_break_it_to_you.mp3
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Troubles A Foot
= Cult of Ray =

USA
361 Posts

Posted - 09/17/2019 :  05:11:27  Show Profile  Visit Troubles A Foot's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Well on first listen I already love this collection of songs more than the album. I kind of knew that would happen. And Frank is right, they do sound more like early Pixies, also still like Catholics (Please Don't Go) in that raw way.


Hoping for high quality mp3s or a digital release from the band soon, but these sound pretty good too.
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rivum
- FB Fan -

Canada
223 Posts

Posted - 09/17/2019 :  05:42:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
wow and here I was thinking we were treated with a stellar album. now to hear the demos also it's like having two christmases a week apart!
I kinda thought one of the demos would have been the demo for daniel boone that they played a snippit of in episode 11 of the podcast.
actually, I thought a bunch of these demos would have been early versions of the BTE songs (like things we've heard on the podcast). but these are whole other songs. she-it...what a treat this is!
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Ziggy
* Dog in the Sand *

United Kingdom
2256 Posts

Posted - 09/17/2019 :  05:43:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thank you for sharing!
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Sprite
* Dog in the Sand *

1010 Posts

Posted - 09/17/2019 :  05:45:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You're all most welcome and glad to hear they are good, I still haven't listened to 7 of them yet!
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SmurfyX
- FB Fan -

USA
18 Posts

Posted - 09/17/2019 :  06:15:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Sprite

You're all most welcome and glad to hear they are good, I still haven't listened to 7 of them yet!



You're beautiful thank you forever.
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picpic
* Dog in the Sand *

Belgium
1791 Posts

Posted - 09/17/2019 :  06:25:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Troubles A Foot

Well on first listen I already love this collection of songs more than the album.

I follow you on that.
I don't know if those are "better" songs, but it's less formal less polished, more spontaneaous. I don't know. It sounds more like rock 'n roll than BTE to me. Maybe it's just production-wise. Less is better.

And the bonus is: these demos won't be recycled into new songs for the next records. So we'll probably have 20+ brand new songs again in within 3 years

___
"Service Unavailable"

Edited by - picpic on 09/17/2019 06:27:10
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picpic
* Dog in the Sand *

Belgium
1791 Posts

Posted - 09/17/2019 :  06:33:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
("hey Day-boossy" is stuck in my head)

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"Service Unavailable"
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Ziggy
* Dog in the Sand *

United Kingdom
2256 Posts

Posted - 09/17/2019 :  06:59:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The Good Works of Cyrus, Under the Marigold and Hey Debussy are my favourites so far.

Edited by - Ziggy on 09/17/2019 09:18:24
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sdon
= Cult of Ray =

France
764 Posts

Posted - 09/17/2019 :  07:22:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
thanks Sprite !!!

sounds raw and nice
but the songs seem inferior, and don't have any 'gothic' vibe, which seemed to be a pre-requisite
I understand that they were left as demos for this album

full-band Please Don't Go is disappointing when you know the solo live version, in which BF really *begs*... here it's already too polished and sunny






--
"Aristophanes! (gong sounds)"
"Fucking up my devotion!"

Edited by - sdon on 09/17/2019 12:51:22
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yarbles
= Cult of Ray =

USA
565 Posts

Posted - 09/17/2019 :  09:01:04  Show Profile  Visit yarbles's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sdon

thanks Sprite !!!

sounds raw and nice
but the songs seem inferior, and don't have any 'gothic' vibe, which seemed to be a pre-requisite
I understand that they were left as demos for this album

full-band Please Don't Go is disappointing when you know the solo live version, in which really *begs*... here it's already to polished and sunny

--
"Aristophanes! (gong sounds)"
"Fucking up my devotion!"




I don't think the direction of "gothic" came about until later on, closer to the actual sessions in December 2018. These demos seem to be the ones recorded in March 2018, as posted about on Instagram by Paz and Joey. I'm guessing there was just a batch of demos, they gravitated towards the ones that actually made the album and then wrote more in the studio... those were the "gothy" ones. These are the other rockers that didn't fit that mood.
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Troubles A Foot
= Cult of Ray =

USA
361 Posts

Posted - 09/17/2019 :  09:31:16  Show Profile  Visit Troubles A Foot's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by picpic

quote:
Originally posted by Troubles A Foot

Well on first listen I already love this collection of songs more than the album.

I follow you on that.
I don't know if those are "better" songs, but it's less formal less polished, more spontaneaous. I don't know. It sounds more like rock 'n roll than BTE to me. Maybe it's just production-wise. Less is better.





Oh yes yes...I listened to them again today. I should be specific:

I agree exactly. I don't know if these songs are better. But I know that they feel more exciting to me and they feel like rock 'n roll, like you said. This feels more like a band having fun and there are times this actually sounds like Surfer Rosa, which HEY I DIDN'T KNOW YOU COULD EVEN DO THAT?? Or even like Devil's Workshop or something, maybe my favorite Catholics album because they sound like they are in a garage and banging songs out fast. (To be clear: I absolutely love Dog in the Sand for how beautiful and lush it sounds...I'm not anti-polished production!)

I appreciate the new album and there's some cool production techniques in it, but damn the thing is slick as hell...I don't mind slick. Frank Black self-titled is slick. Most bands I love are slick. But I don't know. Hearing these songs it felt like traveling back in time a few years before everything got so digital and autotuned and ultra compressed. If they put these 9 songs out as an album (with maybe 1 or 2 more) I may be confused at first but I think I'd massively respect it..It just sounds like they are a real band (I mean, I know they are a real band...) and having fun and rocking and rolling and just thank you Frank for putting this stuff out.

To sum up, these two releases are the exact thing to make me obsess over production and artistic philosophies with music as I often do anyway. I'll be thinking about this all month, I bet.

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johnnyribcage
* Dog in the Sand *

USA
1112 Posts

Posted - 09/17/2019 :  09:46:41  Show Profile  Visit johnnyribcage's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Troubles A Foot

quote:
Originally posted by picpic

quote:
Originally posted by Troubles A Foot

Well on first listen I already love this collection of songs more than the album.

I follow you on that.
I don't know if those are "better" songs, but it's less formal less polished, more spontaneaous. I don't know. It sounds more like rock 'n roll than BTE to me. Maybe it's just production-wise. Less is better.




I appreciate the new album and there's some cool production techniques in it, but damn the thing is slick as hell...I don't mind slick. Frank Black self-titled is slick. Most bands I love are slick. But I don't know. Hearing these songs it felt like traveling back in time a few years before everything got so digital and autotuned and ultra compressed. If they put these 9 songs out as an album (with maybe 1 or 2 more) I may be confused at first but I think I'd massively respect it..It just sounds like they are a real band (I mean, I know they are a real band...) and having fun and rocking and rolling and just thank you Frank for putting this stuff out.




I agree with everything you said (except Iím not sure I hear any Surfer Rosa in there - need to listen some more). Unfortunately, Iím afraid the days of Charles formally releasing anything nice and raw like these demos are behind us. I mean, he released these, but not as an album and he made sure to highly limit their distribution.

I think at least some of the reason for this is his professional results releasing rawer, rougher material in the past. From FB&C on, with some exceptions, almost everything he put out was fairly raw sounding - even the efforts that they really focused on (DITS). Still very live sounding (because it was!). He was rewarded with dwindling sales and increasing irrelevance. Even as the Pixies reunion was banging on all 8 cylinders, his solo releases were largely ignored or scoffed at as being some kind of cynical ploy or something. Iíve read some ridiculous shit about them. So he finally said screw it, after a couple decades of this, itís not working, so Iím going back to the tired and true methods. Which I think is fine - I love the new Pixies material.

Youíre right though, that live, rocking sound is hard to beat. And I think those demos were him throwing a bone to those of us that adore that stuff without making a big deal out of it.


I had a bad reaction to your public hobby writings.

Edited by - johnnyribcage on 09/17/2019 09:59:43
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tamefan
- FB Fan -

Canada
105 Posts

Posted - 09/17/2019 :  10:50:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Joey's guitar tone on Hey, Debussy sounds like Pavement.
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picpic
* Dog in the Sand *

Belgium
1791 Posts

Posted - 09/17/2019 :  11:31:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
[i]Originally posted by johnnyribcage[
Youíre right though, that live, rocking sound is hard to beat. And I think those demos were him throwing a bone to those of us that adore that stuff without making a big deal out of it.


Thats exactly how I feel. Very, very cool move.

And the fact that it sounds like old Pixies stuff is mainly Joey playing without many FX. And also for some odd reason BF voice somehow sounds like heís 10 years younger on these too. Anyone feeling this ?

___
"Service Unavailable"

Edited by - picpic on 09/17/2019 11:34:04
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johnnyribcage
* Dog in the Sand *

USA
1112 Posts

Posted - 09/17/2019 :  11:39:31  Show Profile  Visit johnnyribcage's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I think I Just Canít Break It To You is, for, maybe my instantly favorite Charles song in the last decade.

Thatís a hot take, by the way ;)

I had a bad reaction to your public hobby writings.

Edited by - johnnyribcage on 09/17/2019 11:56:41
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Troubles A Foot
= Cult of Ray =

USA
361 Posts

Posted - 09/17/2019 :  11:58:31  Show Profile  Visit Troubles A Foot's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:


And the fact that it sounds like old Pixies stuff is mainly Joey playing without many FX. And also for some odd reason BF voice somehow sounds like heís 10 years younger on these too. Anyone feeling this




Yes, not only that, but Paz weirdly sounds more like Kim here than in any other song I've heard (not that she should "sound like Kim" as a rule.) Like these songs really do sound like early Pixies mixed with solo Frank in a way that is very pleasing to me.

I'm struggling with this cause I really do like the new album and I appreciate how lush it is and the production of it I think is really impressive...but...maybe it's some hipster part of me that wants all that gloss taken away...I am just absolutely loving these demos.

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sdon
= Cult of Ray =

France
764 Posts

Posted - 09/17/2019 :  12:58:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Troubles A Foot

quote:


And the fact that it sounds like old Pixies stuff is mainly Joey playing without many FX. And also for some odd reason BF voice somehow sounds like heís 10 years younger on these too. Anyone feeling this




Yes, not only that, but Paz weirdly sounds more like Kim here than in any other song I've heard (not that she should "sound like Kim" as a rule.) Like these songs really do sound like early Pixies mixed with solo Frank in a way that is very pleasing to me.

I'm struggling with this cause I really do like the new album and I appreciate how lush it is and the production of it I think is really impressive...but...maybe it's some hipster part of me that wants all that gloss taken away...I am just absolutely loving these demos.





I agree with both of you about how exciting those demos sound, the Pavement and Sonic Youth vibe, the naturally young voices, the not-so-compressed feeling... And even some Surfer Rosa references, minus Albini's specific way of positioning mics.
Nonetheless, I prefer the songs on BTE
Maybe I would have preferred BTE songs if they sounded like those demos, but that's pure conjecture

This may be the sound Joey was alluding to, in post-HC interviews, when he referred to "rawer, less pop"

Probably not Dalgety's cup of tea, or at least not his vision of how Pixies should sound to make a successful record

--
"Aristophanes! (gong sounds)"
"Fucking up my devotion!"

Edited by - sdon on 09/17/2019 13:03:24
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johnnyribcage
* Dog in the Sand *

USA
1112 Posts

Posted - 09/17/2019 :  13:01:23  Show Profile  Visit johnnyribcage's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I agree that on the whole the BTE songs are clearly the stronger material. I think it all shook out just right, as we got 2 great albums that both hang together quite nicely and have their own vibes.


I had a bad reaction to your public hobby writings.
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Ziggy
* Dog in the Sand *

United Kingdom
2256 Posts

Posted - 09/17/2019 :  13:02:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by picpic

quote:
[i]Originally posted by johnnyribcage[
Youíre right though, that live, rocking sound is hard to beat. And I think those demos were him throwing a bone to those of us that adore that stuff without making a big deal out of it.


Thats exactly how I feel. Very, very cool move.

And the fact that it sounds like old Pixies stuff is mainly Joey playing without many FX. And also for some odd reason BF voice somehow sounds like heís 10 years younger on these too. Anyone feeling this ?

___
"Service Unavailable"




I do think there's an element of pitch-shifting on this mp3s from the record speed potentially... Cyrus seems a fraction sharper than standard tuning for example.

Enjoying Charles' guitar tone on these too. As much as I like the fuzz on the BTE/HC songs at times, this sounds a little cleaner but still crunches.

Edited by - Ziggy on 09/17/2019 13:03:52
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sdon
= Cult of Ray =

France
764 Posts

Posted - 09/17/2019 :  13:05:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ziggy

quote:
Originally posted by picpic

quote:
[i]Originally posted by johnnyribcage[
Youíre right though, that live, rocking sound is hard to beat. And I think those demos were him throwing a bone to those of us that adore that stuff without making a big deal out of it.


Thats exactly how I feel. Very, very cool move.

And the fact that it sounds like old Pixies stuff is mainly Joey playing without many FX. And also for some odd reason BF voice somehow sounds like heís 10 years younger on these too. Anyone feeling this ?

___
"Service Unavailable"




I do think there's an element of pitch-shifting on this mp3s from the record speed potentially... Cyrus seems a fraction sharper than standard tuning for example.



You may be onto something here
Please Don't Go seems abnormally high too

--
"Aristophanes! (gong sounds)"
"Fucking up my devotion!"
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Ziggy
* Dog in the Sand *

United Kingdom
2256 Posts

Posted - 09/17/2019 :  13:20:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ziggy

quote:
Originally posted by sdon

quote:
Originally posted by Ziggy

quote:
Originally posted by picpic

[quote][i]Originally posted by johnnyribcage[
Youíre right though, that live, rocking sound is hard to beat. And I think those demos were him throwing a bone to those of us that adore that stuff without making a big deal out of it.


Thats exactly how I feel. Very, very cool move.

And the fact that it sounds like old Pixies stuff is mainly Joey playing without many FX. And also for some odd reason BF voice somehow sounds like heís 10 years younger on these too. Anyone feeling this ?

___
"Service Unavailable"




I do think there's an element of pitch-shifting on this mp3s from the record speed potentially... Cyrus seems a fraction sharper than standard tuning for example.



You may be onto something here
Please Don't Go seems abnormally high too

--
"Aristophanes! (gong sounds)"
"Fucking up my devotion!"





Really enjoying Caught In A Dream now. That and Chapel Hill (which seems the most unfinished of all the demos) were definitely redone in the BTE sessions weren't they? Have I missed any others?

It really does feel like we're in a great era for FBF material.


Edited by - Ziggy on 09/17/2019 13:20:55
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johnnyribcage
* Dog in the Sand *

USA
1112 Posts

Posted - 09/17/2019 :  13:22:56  Show Profile  Visit johnnyribcage's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Pitch difference could be intentional - these guys are Beatles fans, and they pioneered that trick to go for a specific sound. This almost certainly was cut from a digital master so unless they accidentally pulled a 48/44k mistake in the final digital master, i wouldnít blame the vinyl. Maybe. But pretty much no one does all analog... could have been from tape I suppose. With Charles I guess that wouldnít surprise me. Probably digital though. Spriteís turntable may have been running fast - I havenít a/bíd but it sounds to me to be identical to my record. Iíd have to check to be sure though.


I had a bad reaction to your public hobby writings.

Edited by - johnnyribcage on 09/17/2019 13:24:59
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Sprite
* Dog in the Sand *

1010 Posts

Posted - 09/17/2019 :  13:27:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ziggy

quote:
Originally posted by picpic

quote:
[i]Originally posted by johnnyribcage[
Youíre right though, that live, rocking sound is hard to beat. And I think those demos were him throwing a bone to those of us that adore that stuff without making a big deal out of it.


Thats exactly how I feel. Very, very cool move.

And the fact that it sounds like old Pixies stuff is mainly Joey playing without many FX. And also for some odd reason BF voice somehow sounds like heís 10 years younger on these too. Anyone feeling this ?

___
"Service Unavailable"




I do think there's an element of pitch-shifting on this mp3s from the record speed potentially... Cyrus seems a fraction sharper than standard tuning for example.

Enjoying Charles' guitar tone on these too. As much as I like the fuzz on the BTE/HC songs at times, this sounds a little cleaner but still crunches.



That's good sleuthing there. I noticed afterwards the mat had a slight warp on one side. Maybe that's it? I could redo them without the mat I guess.
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Troubles A Foot
= Cult of Ray =

USA
361 Posts

Posted - 09/17/2019 :  13:38:23  Show Profile  Visit Troubles A Foot's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Ahahahaha oh my god it is hilarious we all were saying how young they sound and it's cause of possible pitch shifting. Amazing.
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Ziggy
* Dog in the Sand *

United Kingdom
2256 Posts

Posted - 09/17/2019 :  13:44:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Sprite

quote:
Originally posted by Ziggy

quote:
Originally posted by picpic

quote:
[i]Originally posted by johnnyribcage[
Youíre right though, that live, rocking sound is hard to beat. And I think those demos were him throwing a bone to those of us that adore that stuff without making a big deal out of it.


Thats exactly how I feel. Very, very cool move.

And the fact that it sounds like old Pixies stuff is mainly Joey playing without many FX. And also for some odd reason BF voice somehow sounds like heís 10 years younger on these too. Anyone feeling this ?

___
"Service Unavailable"




I do think there's an element of pitch-shifting on this mp3s from the record speed potentially... Cyrus seems a fraction sharper than standard tuning for example.

Enjoying Charles' guitar tone on these too. As much as I like the fuzz on the BTE/HC songs at times, this sounds a little cleaner but still crunches.



That's good sleuthing there. I noticed afterwards the mat had a slight warp on one side. Maybe that's it? I could redo them without the mat I guess.




You've done us a tremendous service ripping and these!

I was figuring out the chords to Cyrus (a tremendously satisfying song to play) and that's where it struck me.

Would absolutely love a digital/physical release of these and all the other non-album tracks.
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johnnyribcage
* Dog in the Sand *

USA
1112 Posts

Posted - 09/17/2019 :  13:54:59  Show Profile  Visit johnnyribcage's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Troubles A Foot

Ahahahaha oh my god it is hilarious we all were saying how young they sound and it's cause of possible pitch shifting. Amazing.



Guys I honestly donít think there is any pitch shifting going on here really. And Sprite, donít adjust your turntable I just played your file along with my record, and it was pitch perfect, and I know for a fact my set up is dead on.


I had a bad reaction to your public hobby writings.

Edited by - johnnyribcage on 09/17/2019 13:56:19
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johnnyribcage
* Dog in the Sand *

USA
1112 Posts

Posted - 09/17/2019 :  14:13:01  Show Profile  Visit johnnyribcage's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Speaking of Please Donít Go, I feel like thatís the one above all the others that sounds like a straight up lost track from Svn Fngrs.


I had a bad reaction to your public hobby writings.
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hammerhands
* Dog in the Sand *

Canada
1577 Posts

Posted - 09/17/2019 :  14:58:41  Show Profile  Visit hammerhands's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Is the book that comes with the CD the same content as the booklet with the vinyl?

Edited by - hammerhands on 09/17/2019 15:08:25
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tamefan
- FB Fan -

Canada
105 Posts

Posted - 09/17/2019 :  15:06:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
21 songs in total, more than an hour of music... the most since teenager of the year. whew
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hammerhands
* Dog in the Sand *

Canada
1577 Posts

Posted - 09/17/2019 :  15:09:04  Show Profile  Visit hammerhands's Homepage  Reply with Quote
This is now clarified on the store page:

ďIncludes new album download code. Download does not include bonus tracks or demos.Ē
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