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Stevio10
= Cult of Ray =

United Kingdom
867 Posts

Posted - 08/27/2019 :  01:50:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by pixie punk

quote:
Originally posted by billgoodman

quote:
Originally posted by Stevio10

Anyone else curious why Tom Dalgety had them do 3 covers when they probably already knew they wouldn't be on the album?



iTunes exclusive
Spotify exclusive
Or another platform?

I'm surprised they are not part of the deluxe boxset
https://wmg.jp/pixies/discography/21245/ Japanese edition #13 Untitled Bonus Track? Probably the others will be available in other markets.
---------------------------
BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?



PUERTO RICO PIXIE



Good find! What were the other covers other than Grow Fins by Captain Beefheart?

I listened to Grow Fins the other day out of curiosity, sounds like a break up song where he's going to grow fins to return to the sea to hook up with a mermaid. Typical FB fare then!
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pixie punk
> Teenager of the Year <

2858 Posts

Posted - 08/27/2019 :  02:36:03  Show Profile  Visit pixie punk's Homepage  Reply with Quote
"The final track, "Pixies Interview", is a six-minute interview with the band immediate following their Fallout Shelter performance. It gives a brief introduction to the band and captures everyone in their youthful glory, having fun with one another, and savoring the afterglow of a really great set. The interview ends with the band requesting the DJ play Captain Beefheart's "Grow Fins" -- a track Santiago describes as real music not just "barcore", the category to which he claimed the Pixies belonged. Fittingly, "Grow Fins", a bluesy bit of Beefheart brilliance, is one of the more accessible songs in the notoriously dense and complicated band's catalog. Leave it to the Pixies to bring challenging music to the masses, make it easy to digest and then to blow our collective minds".(Stevio10 I have no idea what the other two covers are).

PUERTO RICO PIXIE
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Sprite
= Cult of Ray =

961 Posts

Posted - 08/27/2019 :  06:55:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
So that means the Bonus Track #13 is an interview and not a song?
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Active Duck
~ Abstract Brain ~

United Kingdom
399 Posts

Posted - 08/27/2019 :  08:59:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Sprite

So that means the Bonus Track #13 is an interview and not a song?



Is the quote about Come On Pilgrim... It's Surfer Rosa?

https://soundblab.com/reviews/albums/20941-pixies-come-on-pilgrim-it-s-surfer-rosa
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Sprite
= Cult of Ray =

961 Posts

Posted - 08/27/2019 :  09:33:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ah...good spot.
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pixie punk
> Teenager of the Year <

2858 Posts

Posted - 08/27/2019 :  11:10:03  Show Profile  Visit pixie punk's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Sprite

So that means the Bonus Track #13 is an interview and not a song?

No,that quote was from a review from the release that included the Fallout Shelter performance and interview.

PUERTO RICO PIXIE
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Sprite
= Cult of Ray =

961 Posts

Posted - 08/27/2019 :  11:50:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
OK thanks for clarifying. I am not listening to the rest of the podcasts until the album comes out but I am curious:

Is there any hint that these 3 covers versions were recorded in addition to the 12tracks + 9demos?
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<

Netherlands
5348 Posts

Posted - 08/27/2019 :  12:06:01  Show Profile  Click to see billgoodman's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
Yes a song by T-Rex and the other one is also revealed

---------------------------
BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
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Sprite
= Cult of Ray =

961 Posts

Posted - 08/27/2019 :  12:29:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
oooh Yummy :)
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sdon
= Cult of Ray =

France
758 Posts

Posted - 08/28/2019 :  23:21:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Paz is singing like Kim Gordon in the latest episode

--
"Aristophanes! (gong sounds)"
"Fucking up my devotion!"
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<

Netherlands
5348 Posts

Posted - 08/29/2019 :  00:12:36  Show Profile  Click to see billgoodman's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
Yes! Good call, I also still think she's sounding a bit like Kim Deal
An Indie-vibe

---------------------------
BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
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sdon
= Cult of Ray =

France
758 Posts

Posted - 08/29/2019 :  04:03:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm rather surprised by how much impact Dalgety has, as a producer and not only a sound engineer. Or that's what the Podcast seems to emphasize (maybe because of who financed it)

He is shown as the one :
- "selecting" among the demos
- scheduling the sessions
- making the daily agenda move forward, working fast to maintain a sense of emergency
- going back to a song for new takes or additions
- influencing song structure
- advising on lyrics
- adding arrangements
- proposing harmonized vocals
- creating 'signature' intros with unusual instruments, mere objects, audio effects...
- coaching Joey !
- choosing the sequencing of tracks...


At least, it seems BF and Paz are aligned on some of the Pixies "ethics" or "aesthetics", lyrically of course, but also their rejection of samples, not because they are samples but because they break the spirit of recording "here and now"

I imagine Dalgety doing the mixing alone (or with editing assistants), with very little input from the band, if any

I guess Norton had the same approach, but was it to such extent?
Maybe Albini too, calling the Pixies kittens, and imparting even more of his aesthetics


--
"Aristophanes! (gong sounds)"
"Fucking up my devotion!"

Edited by - sdon on 08/29/2019 04:06:15
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pixie punk
> Teenager of the Year <

2858 Posts

Posted - 08/29/2019 :  06:20:27  Show Profile  Visit pixie punk's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Feeling like there's a catfish swimming in my brain.Loving it more after listening to Paz and Charles dual vocals on Episode 10.

PUERTO RICO PIXIE
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<

Netherlands
5348 Posts

Posted - 08/29/2019 :  08:22:05  Show Profile  Click to see billgoodman's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sdon

I'm rather surprised by how much impact Dalgety has, as a producer and not only a sound engineer. Or that's what the Podcast seems to emphasize (maybe because of who financed it)

He is shown as the one :
- "selecting" among the demos
- scheduling the sessions
- making the daily agenda move forward, working fast to maintain a sense of emergency
- going back to a song for new takes or additions
- influencing song structure
- advising on lyrics
- adding arrangements
- proposing harmonized vocals
- creating 'signature' intros with unusual instruments, mere objects, audio effects...
- coaching Joey !
- choosing the sequencing of tracks...


At least, it seems BF and Paz are aligned on some of the Pixies "ethics" or "aesthetics", lyrically of course, but also their rejection of samples, not because they are samples but because they break the spirit of recording "here and now"

I imagine Dalgety doing the mixing alone (or with editing assistants), with very little input from the band, if any

I guess Norton had the same approach, but was it to such extent?
Maybe Albini too, calling the Pixies kittens, and imparting even more of his aesthetics


--
"Aristophanes! (gong sounds)"
"Fucking up my devotion!"




He is running the show! I guess it's what a producer needs to do, but you are right

---------------------------
BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
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picpic
* Dog in the Sand *

Belgium
1778 Posts

Posted - 08/29/2019 :  16:21:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Not sure about Albini. The band had already written most of Surfer Rosa and sounded like Surfer Rosa on stage when they recorded the album.
On Doolittle I read somewhere Charles presented demos to Norton and there was a real pre production work done on the songs

___
"Service Unavailable"
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<

Netherlands
5348 Posts

Posted - 08/29/2019 :  17:23:33  Show Profile  Click to see billgoodman's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
Albini was pretty vocal about his influence on their songs
I'm Amazed lost a part because of it

---------------------------
BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
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Troubles A Foot
- FB Fan -

USA
226 Posts

Posted - 08/29/2019 :  19:23:28  Show Profile  Visit Troubles A Foot's Homepage  Reply with Quote
As someone who has produced bands etc, as I imagine many here have, even I am pretty surprised at how much Dalgety shapes the songs. I guess in my eyes the songwriter shapes the song and the producer makes it sound good, or organized, but coming up with structural stuff is really surprising to me, and telling the band members how to play and how to sing even surprises me a bit...you just wouldn't think they'd need to be told. I've done that for my friends recording at my place when they seem particularly lost or confused, but in general I don't suggest things like that because they know how they want their songs to be, as do I when I am working with a producer for my own songs.
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<

Netherlands
5348 Posts

Posted - 08/29/2019 :  19:44:49  Show Profile  Click to see billgoodman's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
Even Pixies can get lost sometimes
Many pop producers nowadays take songwriter credits on all the spngs
---------------------------
BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?

Edited by - billgoodman on 08/29/2019 19:47:41
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Jamie
- FB Fan -

USA
61 Posts

Posted - 08/29/2019 :  20:36:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I assumed the 9 demos on the deluxe edition would be the songs that were recorded and left off the album, but I think the latest episode implies they aren't. It mentions there were 19 songs recorded in total, 3 of which being covers. We know the covers aren't on the demo album, so that would only leave 4 recorded songs. I guess it could be a combination. Has anyone kept track of the songs that have been mentioned in the podcast as being left off the final album?
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sdon
= Cult of Ray =

France
758 Posts

Posted - 08/29/2019 :  20:46:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Chapel Hill and Caught in a Dream
So that leaves two others from the sessions

And probably 5 that are earlier demos



--
"Aristophanes! (gong sounds)"
"Fucking up my devotion!"
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Stevio10
= Cult of Ray =

United Kingdom
867 Posts

Posted - 08/30/2019 :  23:37:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sdon

I'm rather surprised by how much impact Dalgety has, as a producer and not only a sound engineer. Or that's what the Podcast seems to emphasize (maybe because of who financed it)

He is shown as the one :
- "selecting" among the demos
- scheduling the sessions
- making the daily agenda move forward, working fast to maintain a sense of emergency
- going back to a song for new takes or additions
- influencing song structure
- advising on lyrics
- adding arrangements
- proposing harmonized vocals
- creating 'signature' intros with unusual instruments, mere objects, audio effects...
- coaching Joey !
- choosing the sequencing of tracks...


At least, it seems BF and Paz are aligned on some of the Pixies "ethics" or "aesthetics", lyrically of course, but also their rejection of samples, not because they are samples but because they break the spirit of recording "here and now"

I imagine Dalgety doing the mixing alone (or with editing assistants), with very little input from the band, if any

I guess Norton had the same approach, but was it to such extent?
Maybe Albini too, calling the Pixies kittens, and imparting even more of his aesthetics


--
"Aristophanes! (gong sounds)"
"Fucking up my devotion!"




I'm quite surprised with this too. Seems with Head Carrier they had the songs written before and had pre production time but with the new album it seems to be mostly written or evolved in the studio.

Kinda goes against what Joey said a while back when discussing what direction they thought the next album would go when he said they would 'take the pop out of it'.

Tom appears to have a strong vision for the band and of course he has his own profile and goals.

While it's clear the band really like Tom maybe for the next next album we'll see the likes of O Little Cloud and other rejects back with Gil?
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The Maharal
= Cult of Ray =

867 Posts

Posted - 08/31/2019 :  00:04:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I just want Eric Drew Feldman back.
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Bedbug
* Dog in the Sand *

2164 Posts

Posted - 08/31/2019 :  03:31:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
EDF producing O Little Cloud is about as good a wish as I could imagine for 2.0.

I know practically zero about music production, so I'll just take it from you guys that this Tom fellow is a little more hands on than we should expect. I liked just about everything I heard from him on the podcasts. Album is out in a few weeks and I'm really looking forward to it.
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Brank_Flack
= Cult of Ray =

Canada
658 Posts

Posted - 08/31/2019 :  03:55:59  Show Profile  Click to see Brank_Flack's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Maharal

I just want Eric Drew Feldman back.



I would've said that before, but I think the production on BTE sounds better than NSE (the last time this was tried) thus far.

I've actually liked many of Tom's suggestions. I think his instrumental for Ms. Mark of Cain is great, I think he's done a goodjob of trying to get Charles/Joey to do more eccentric takes on tracks, etc. The snippets we've heard from the demos and final version Bird of Prey sound night and day, and a lot of that positive change sounds like its from Tom.

Edited by - Brank_Flack on 08/31/2019 06:17:47
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Ziggy
* Dog in the Sand *

United Kingdom
2253 Posts

Posted - 08/31/2019 :  05:32:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I've particularly enjoyed hearing Tom's contributions, and how well the band have responded to them. The extra vocals for 'Graveyard Hill' in the most recent episode was another interesting element.
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<

Netherlands
5348 Posts

Posted - 08/31/2019 :  07:00:47  Show Profile  Click to see billgoodman's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
I believe a lot of producers are also very hands on
Especially in this day and age

---------------------------
BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
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Bedbug
* Dog in the Sand *

2164 Posts

Posted - 08/31/2019 :  14:33:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I was listening to TLM in the car today, and , as a civilian, it's just impossible for me to imagine where the producer's influences would be. Yes, I can tell the difference between a Steve A record and Gil N record, but the TLM album just sounds like our man and his crew doing what they do. I can't imagine Norton saying, "how about on this take you change one of the chorus lines to THIS AIN'T NO FUCKIN AROUND." Or, "hey Eric, how about some nice piano on the outro." But to those of you who know more, is that that sort of stuff that would have happened?
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two reelers
= Cult of Ray =

Austria
967 Posts

Posted - 08/31/2019 :  17:47:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
SA is at one end of the spectrum. He is not a producer, but an excellent recording engineer. The style of Cone on pilgrim and Surfer Rosa is the most "true" Pixies style and sound.
GN goes one step further. He for sure has a vision of a sound for a specific album (but not a specific band sound.). But he has no intent to interfere with the creative output (=songs) of the band. These albums have his sound, but are still "true" Pixies songs.
In best (worst) Jon Tiven style, TD imposes his likings on the songs themselves and changes them. This waters down the originality, spontaneity and urgency of the songs. I really don't like the results. If a producer wants to make music, he/she should start his/her own band, and not disrespect the artists they are producing by adding what the producer likes.

I joined the cult of Souled American / 'cause they are a damn' fine band
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The Maharal
= Cult of Ray =

867 Posts

Posted - 09/01/2019 :  04:04:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'd be very happy with EDF just there in the studio helping out on keys, song ideas, etc., to provide a bit more variety. I've listened to only one of the podcasts thus far (will listen to the rest at some stage) so can't comment too much on TD's input.

I just want Charles to be Charles again and its usually EDF he works best with.
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<

Netherlands
5348 Posts

Posted - 09/01/2019 :  04:34:33  Show Profile  Click to see billgoodman's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
Steve Albini claims he 's just a engineer but he put his stamp on Surfer Rosa
I mean editing I'm Amazed (and making fun of the band later on that he could do that)
Putting studio charter on the final mix without the bands knowledge
Mixing Kim's backing vocal in favor of Frank's lead vocal

It is just a matter of semantics, but you can easily argue that he produced that record


---------------------------
BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
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sdon
= Cult of Ray =

France
758 Posts

Posted - 09/01/2019 :  09:04:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'd like Albini to work on another Pixies album

--
"Aristophanes! (gong sounds)"
"Fucking up my devotion!"
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<

Netherlands
5348 Posts

Posted - 09/01/2019 :  09:28:38  Show Profile  Click to see billgoodman's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
Me too

---------------------------
BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
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Troubles A Foot
- FB Fan -

USA
226 Posts

Posted - 09/01/2019 :  11:38:57  Show Profile  Visit Troubles A Foot's Homepage  Reply with Quote
The one time I recorded an album with a guy who acted as producer/engineer (it was a tiny tiny studio and just one guy there), some days I felt like he was a little TOO hands off, like it may have been nice if he had ideas for the songs or out of the box thinking, because to me that would give the impression he was thinking about them and enjoying them. I remember thinking he seemed a bit indifferent to my songs and the few times he had some spark of an idea, even if I disagreed with it, I really appreciated that he felt inspired by my song and wanted to collaborate.

HOWEVER...If he did that TOO MUCH or was too pushy about it or wanting to alter the song structure too much, I would feel kind of outnumbered and frustrated at straying too far from the songs as I wrote them. I'd be open to the idea of say, putting a little intro on the song. But if a producer said "cut the 3rd verse, you don't need it" (as a bass player said to me once), I'd feel very annoyed and like the song was under attack.

So it's a balance. From the Pixies podcast in my humble opinion, the producer is going a bit farther than I would expect, but most of his suggestions feel pretty reasonable to me, if maybe a bit unremarkable (they all are kind of generic ideas, I'm actually surprised there isn't more crazy unpredictable ideas.). My main surprise is I had no idea Frank needed any direction for his singing and I figured he knew what he wanted to do already when stepping up to the mic.
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Bedbug
* Dog in the Sand *

2164 Posts

Posted - 09/01/2019 :  12:46:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If Frank doesn’t care as much he probably welcomes someone(s) who cares more, like Tom and Paz.
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Bedbug
* Dog in the Sand *

2164 Posts

Posted - 09/06/2019 :  01:38:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Charles’ sandwich shop. Great episode on Daniel Boone
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