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sdon
= Cult of Ray =

France
527 Posts

Posted - 09/06/2016 :  02:07:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
"That on and on and on bit is kinda nauseous too. "
Yes, it's the most disappointing part, but it's short enough

--
"Aristophanes! (gong sounds)"

Edited by - sdon on 09/06/2016 02:08:30
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pixie punk
* Dog in the Sand *

2474 Posts

Posted - 09/06/2016 :  02:10:18  Show Profile  Visit pixie punk's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Bedbug

Loving these 3 HC songs so far, especially Tenament Song (considering it better than most of Bossanova, which I love).

Talent is also starting to give me a CoR feel, which is a good thing.

I'm glad he's doing what he's doing.

http://www.themetropolist.com/music/single-reviews/single-review-pixies-tenement-song/

PUERTO RICO PIXIE
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Stevio10
= Cult of Ray =

United Kingdom
646 Posts

Posted - 09/06/2016 :  02:32:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
From the little I've heard of the album, in terms of quality of songs alone, I'm happy to make an earl comparison to Bluefinger - IMHO a very good thing.
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LUTINS
- FB Fan -

France
182 Posts

Posted - 09/06/2016 :  04:47:05  Show Profile  Click to see LUTINS's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote

Tenement song, already a classic like Monkey....

the new class lesson Pixies

http://www.lesinrocks.com/inrocks.tv/video-tenement-song-nouvelle-lecon-de-classe-pixies/

After Um Chagga Lagga released last July and Talent in August, the Pixies attack in September with a brand new song as great as its predecessors, Tenement Song. This time accompanied by a cartoon clip, title marks a return to what the group does best: rock ballads incisors also effective, so Monkey's Gone To Heaven. It remains to wait for the 30th of this month to discover all Head Carrier, a new album at the moment can only seem promising.




http://blackolero.blogspot.com/
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Bedbug
= Cult of Ray =

374 Posts

Posted - 09/06/2016 :  05:31:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Pixie Punk

Thank you for the link to that review.

The man is killing it on these songs.

"Rodent infested guitars."

And I have no beef with Deal whatsoever, she was a great part of the supporting cast, but Tenement Song makes it very clear how Paz is it.
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Brank_Flack
= Cult of Ray =

Canada
587 Posts

Posted - 09/06/2016 :  05:50:21  Show Profile  Click to see Brank_Flack's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
Nice verses, but holy over produced choruses Batman.
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hammerhands
* Dog in the Sand *

Canada
1520 Posts

Posted - 09/06/2016 :  06:28:08  Show Profile  Visit hammerhands's Homepage  Reply with Quote
The chorus is very reminiscent of something...I can't quite put my finger on.
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picpic
* Dog in the Sand *

Belgium
1159 Posts

Posted - 09/06/2016 :  06:55:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Bedbug
And I have no beef with Deal whatsoever, she was a great part of the supporting cast, but Tenement Song makes it very clear how Paz is it.


She sounds ok with overdubs, effects or in harmonies (in the studio), but her "bare" singing voice onstage sounds kind of bland and a bit annoying. Imho.

___
"Service Unavailable"
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pot
* Dog in the Sand *

United Kingdom
2371 Posts

Posted - 09/06/2016 :  07:35:50  Show Profile  Visit pot's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Bedbug

Loving these 3 HC songs so far, especially Tenament Song (considering it better than most of Bossanova, which I love).



What an outrageous thing to say
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Bedbug
= Cult of Ray =

374 Posts

Posted - 09/06/2016 :  07:39:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Picpic

I''m hearing what you're saying and I do not disagree necessarily. We all know the sweetness of Deal.

My point is that if I give Tenement Song an 86/100 rating with Paz, I can't see giving it higher than an 86/100 with Kim. I don't find myself missing her (no hard feelings).

(By the way, I don't know how to quote other members' comments, so that's why I'm putting your name at the front of my thing.
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Bedbug
= Cult of Ray =

374 Posts

Posted - 09/06/2016 :  07:47:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Pot

Yeah, maybe it is outrageous, and I love Bossanova, but over the last 20+ years I've found myself skipping a bunch of it (but never 5,6,7 or 10.).
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natenate101
= Cult of Ray =

USA
679 Posts

Posted - 09/06/2016 :  08:19:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
One thing that sticks out about the songwriting is that the title of the song almost always gives away the chorus, before you even hear it. UCL, Talent and TS all include and repeat their own titles a bunch in the chorus (and verses for the latter 2). BF has done that before of course, but not to this extent. A quick glance at the lyrics for HC again and almost every song follows that pattern. Only Bel Espirit and to some extent Plaster of Paris don't follow it, though they do include the words themselves. So I ask, is this lazy songwriting or just simplifying things as much as possible?

My biggest gripe so far is the lyrics and choruses not being dense or dynamic enough, I would say especially in the choruses. This may be due to keeping the tracks shorter, but for me increasing the tempo as opposed to shortening the length of the songs, was the best way to approach the next phase after IC.

By biggest positive is that the music itself is faster,
punchier, and more catchy than anything off IC.

Edited by - natenate101 on 09/06/2016 08:21:53
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yarbles
= Cult of Ray =

USA
420 Posts

Posted - 09/06/2016 :  08:22:55  Show Profile  Visit yarbles's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I don't know if I'd go as far to say I like Tenement Song more than Bossanova, but I definitely got Bossanova vibes from it the first time I heard it. And that my friends is a very good thing in my book.

I like all the new songs. I think it's probably because I'm not expecting anything from the band.... I'm still in the mindset that I can hardly believe the band is making new music again. So whatever we get is just additional icing on the the delicious cake that is the entire classic Pixies back catalogue.
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sdon
= Cult of Ray =

France
527 Posts

Posted - 09/06/2016 :  09:04:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by natenate101

One thing that sticks out about the songwriting is that the title of the song almost always gives away the chorus, before you even hear it. UCL, Talent and TS all include and repeat their own titles a bunch in the chorus (and verses for the latter 2). BF has done that before of course, but not to this extent. A quick glance at the lyrics for HC again and almost every song follows that pattern. Only Bel Espirit and to some extent Plaster of Paris don't follow it, though they do include the words themselves. So I ask, is this lazy songwriting or just simplifying things as much as possible?

My biggest gripe so far is the lyrics and choruses not being dense or dynamic enough, I would say especially in the choruses. This may be due to keeping the tracks shorter, but for me increasing the tempo as opposed to shortening the length of the songs, was the best way to approach the next phase after IC.

By biggest positive is that the music itself is faster,
punchier, and more catchy than anything off IC.



Good analysis. To me it's really lazy songwriting, more than a taste for simple repetitive pop.
What I liked before the IC demos with Dubs surfaced, is that BF posted (or was it Violet) that he had to go in the basement or whatever, at night, for some serious WORK. I feel that's what missing. HC Lyrics appear to have been written in a hurry (apart from some verses, or songs like Classic Masher or even Um Chagga Lagga). They were more complex / poetic on IC (Boom, Indie Cindy, Bagboy, Silver Snail, Andro Queen,...), though not always (Magdalena, Hexe chorus, Ring the Bell chorus, Jaime Bravo chorus)

The music on HC is faster than on IC as recorded, but some live versions of Boom, Hexe, Bagboy, Indie Cindy, Greens and Blues... were really fast and better this way.
Speed per se is not defining Pixies, I'd say it's more the atmosphere and/or the change of pace. But catchiness is a trap if you oversimplify.

Finally, several people noted that Head Carrier (the song) has a Bossanova feel.
And Tenement Song a bit as well. At first, when I heard Bagboy (+ Boom and Hexe), I thought that IC could have been some Trompe 2.0. Maybe HC is Bossanova 2.0? And we're slowly going back the years...



--
"Aristophanes! (gong sounds)"

Edited by - sdon on 09/06/2016 09:05:45
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Bedbug
= Cult of Ray =

374 Posts

Posted - 09/06/2016 :  09:27:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think the man's lyrics on songs with the Pixies label have always been a bit "lazier" if you will than stuff like TOTY or Dog in The Sand. Didn't he write Ana in the studio as they were about to record it? And lots of 1.0 songs have titles = choruses (Caribou, Planet to name two).

I would love it if he were using 2.0 to tear down 1.0, like suicide by iconoclasticism.

Not saying that he is
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Stevio10
= Cult of Ray =

United Kingdom
646 Posts

Posted - 09/06/2016 :  10:09:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think the new songs follow the same structure of all their singles/hits tbh. Verse into title chorus = wave, debaser, hcym, gigantic, velouria, ive been tired, monkey, dig for fire, Alison, there goes my gun, greens and blues, what goes boom, into the white...etc

Sure, everyones ears/brains respond differently. Personally, I grew up listening to shitty sounding cassettes on shitty sounding speakers - and I loved music in spite of that. Maybe that's why I don't mind the production on new songs.

My only real issue is with BF's vocals. I've thought for a little while that Pixies music is very quite youthful. Yet his voice has matured so it makes a little mismatch. Know you can't combat age but I think he's yet to establish his best vocal style on new material.

What Goes Boom has best vocals for me, it has a great range and could fit on any post Surfer Rosa album, can't say that about any of the others yet.

But that's a tiny critique/fear which I'm sure will be irrelevant when I listen to the album in full.
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natenate101
= Cult of Ray =

USA
679 Posts

Posted - 09/06/2016 :  10:16:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Stevio10

I think the new songs follow the same structure of all their singles/hits tbh. Verse into title chorus = wave, debaser, hcym, gigantic, velouria, ive been tired, monkey, dig for fire, Alison, there goes my gun, greens and blues, what goes boom, into the white...etc

Sure, everyones ears/brains respond differently. Personally, I grew up listening to shitty sounding cassettes on shitty sounding speakers - and I loved music in spite of that. Maybe that's why I don't mind the production on new songs.

My only real issue is with BF's vocals. I've thought for a little while that Pixies music is very quite youthful. Yet his voice has matured so it makes a little mismatch. Know you can't combat age but I think he's yet to establish his best vocal style on new material.

What Goes Boom has best vocals for me, it has a great range and could fit on any post Surfer Rosa album, can't say that about any of the others yet.

But that's a tiny critique/fear which I'm sure will be irrelevant when I listen to the album in full.



The difference with these current songs is that the verses aren't that complex and there is a lack of Bridges or digressions in the overall song to distract from the repetition/simplicity of the choruses. You see what I'm saying? Having 4-5 songs per album follow along that pattern is ok, because it all comes out in the wash. Having every track like that on an album stands out like a sore thumb.

As for What Goes Boom, I agree that BF's vocals on that song were awesome.

Again, I like all 3 songs released to different degrees and I still feel confident I'll prefer HC to IC in terms of replay value. But I agree with those that are saying these last 2 songs have lowered my expectations a bit as opposed to UCL which I was very pleasantly surprised by.

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McDutchie
- FB Fan -

Netherlands
216 Posts

Posted - 09/06/2016 :  10:33:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sdon

[] To me it's really lazy songwriting, more than a taste for simple repetitive pop.
On that note, I keep reading and hearing in interviews that the other band members don't pay any attention to Frank's lyrics. David only listens to the instruments, Paz just learns the words and doesn't wonder what they could mean, and Joey outright says he doesn't give a shit.

None of them seem to have the least bit of appreciation for the fact that they are working with one of the most brilliant and underrated songwriters in all of the United fucking States of goddamn America. It bloody irks me and makes me wish he went solo again. (Then I think of his family who are living well off the Pixies and feel selfish.)

Anyway, no wonder then he got lyrics-lazy.
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picpic
* Dog in the Sand *

Belgium
1159 Posts

Posted - 09/06/2016 :  10:56:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by natenate101
The difference with these current songs is that the verses aren't that complex and there is a lack of Bridges or digressions in the overall song to distract from the repetition/simplicity of the choruses.


True. Much more verse/chorus/verse since IC. Difference is: songs were longer and sometimes very repetitive on IC. Now they are shorter and faster. But the structure is similar.

Maybe BF tried so many song structures over the years, having already explored that territory, he now sticks again to verse/chorus/verse songwriting.

quote:
Originally posted by McDutchie
None of them seem to have the least bit of appreciation for the fact that they are working with one of the most brilliant and underrated songwriters in all of the United fucking States of goddamn America


Maybe they just don't react as fans. And I don't think BF has been underrated. Maybe his "solo" work was. But the whole band has been enjoying their cult status for a long time now. That's not what I would call being underrated.

___
"Service Unavailable"
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McDutchie
- FB Fan -

Netherlands
216 Posts

Posted - 09/06/2016 :  10:58:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by picpic
And I don't think BF has been underrated. Maybe his "solo" work was.

Yes, that's what I was referring to.
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sdon
= Cult of Ray =

France
527 Posts

Posted - 09/06/2016 :  12:28:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Bedbug


My point is that if I give Tenement Song an 86/100 rating with Paz, I can't see giving it higher than an 86/100 with Kim. I don't find myself missing her (no hard feelings).



I can very much see how Kim Deal would bring some touch of weirdness.
Paz's vocal lines are very predictable and "academic" (+ production, autotune or overdub make them rather bland, except for the distortion on UCL)
Kim, as a lead singer herself, really masters strange harmonies and offset scansion.
Only she could invent what she did on I Bleed, Debaser, Velouria, Subbacultcha...

Kim could have made Tenement at least 90/100
And Kim's biggest contribution, I am now sure of that, was to act as a filter to Charles songs and to challenge him into making Pixies songwriting instead of generic FB songwriting. BF may not be aware of that, and many will disagree (Peter Radiator), but if Joey said 80% of the Pixies sound was him, I think 80% of the Pixies signature was Kim (implicit or explicit influence on Charles, or being a sort of muse allowing him to access the proper vibration). Of course, BF is the living and driving force behind those songs, but he needed Kim as a magic mirror to produce his best compositions.
Maybe he can find it again, but I feel other members just don't give enough of a fuck (as with the lyrics, or the audio production), while Kim was extremely demanding.

I realize that I miss her.
Not her antics, or her stage presence, but her trademark, her "soul"

--
"Aristophanes! (gong sounds)"

Edited by - sdon on 09/06/2016 12:34:00
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natenate101
= Cult of Ray =

USA
679 Posts

Posted - 09/06/2016 :  12:41:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sdon

quote:
Originally posted by Bedbug


My point is that if I give Tenement Song an 86/100 rating with Paz, I can't see giving it higher than an 86/100 with Kim. I don't find myself missing her (no hard feelings).



I can very much see how Kim Deal would bring some touch of weirdness.
Paz's vocal lines are very predictable and "academic" (+ production, autotune or overdub make them rather bland, except for the distortion on UCL)
Kim, as a lead singer herself, really masters strange harmonies and offset scansion.
Only she could invent what she did on I Bleed, Debaser, Velouria, Subbacultcha...

Kim could have made Tenement at least 90/100
And Kim's biggest contribution, I am now sure of that, was to act as a filter to Charles songs and to challenge him into making Pixies songwriting instead of generic FB songwriting. BF may not be aware of that, and many will disagree (Peter Radiator), but if Joey said 80% of the Pixies sound was him, I think 80% of the Pixies signature was Kim (implicit or explicit influence on Charles, or being a sort of muse allowing him to access the proper vibration). Of course, BF is the living and driving force behind those songs, but he needed Kim as a magic mirror to produce his best compositions.
Maybe he can find it again, but I feel other members just don't give enough of a fuck (as with the lyrics, or the audio production), while Kim was extremely demanding.

I realize that I miss her.
Not her antics, or her stage presence, but her trademark, her "soul"

--
"Aristophanes! (gong sounds)"



Hmm, not sure there is much evidence that Kim challenged or effects Charles' songwriting. I can see how she can effect the music but the songwriting seems to be his and his alone bar a few songs. If you mean that maybe she challenged him or influenced him subconsciously but her work with the Breeders, maybe.

BF has a completely different life now than he did then, obviously. And he has written so many songs in so many styles. Maybe this is just where he is at.
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The New Bolero
= Cult of Ray =

381 Posts

Posted - 09/06/2016 :  12:43:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by hammerhands

The chorus is very reminiscent of something...I can't quite put my finger on.




I understand if I'm the only one hearing it--but I think CONVOY, the 70s novelty trucker song, is what I'm picking up.

Here's the link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnJEeHND_lQ

Go right to the 3:10 mark and listen to that chorus. Something about it.
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hammerhands
* Dog in the Sand *

Canada
1520 Posts

Posted - 09/06/2016 :  13:05:33  Show Profile  Visit hammerhands's Homepage  Reply with Quote
There was a movie with that.
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peter radiator
= Cult of Ray =

USA
552 Posts

Posted - 09/06/2016 :  13:50:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
"Convoy" is one of my favorite singles from that time period. It's also one of the only songs I ever attempt at karaoke nights.

There is a wonderfully mysterious story behind the song, and its composer and performer, "C.W. McCall."

I would not be surprised if FBF is well aware of the song and its genesis, what with his interest in both outsider rock artists and CB Radio.

In fact, come to think of it, the story of "C.W. McCall" would make a great, future, Wiki-researched Pixies tune...

--

"Real music is out there and real people are making it." ~ Webb Wilder
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pot
* Dog in the Sand *

United Kingdom
2371 Posts

Posted - 09/06/2016 :  14:02:58  Show Profile  Visit pot's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Bedbug

Pot

Yeah, maybe it is outrageous, and I love Bossanova, but over the last 20+ years I've found myself skipping a bunch of it (but never 5,6,7 or 10.).



I only ever listen to it when I'm drunk now, and it still sounds great, because it's great and drunken nostalgia.

The only Pixies tracks I ever skip are sometimes The Monkey Song and all the ones on Indy Cindy. By applying that assumption, mathematically I have in theory listened to Indy Cindy an indeterminate number of times up to infinity.
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Arm Arm Arm
= Cult of Ray =

998 Posts

Posted - 09/06/2016 :  15:08:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by McDutchie



None of them seem to have the least bit of appreciation for the fact that they are working with one of the most brilliant and underrated songwriters in all of the United fucking States of goddamn America. It bloody irks me and makes me wish he went solo again. (Then I think of his family who are living well off the Pixies and feel selfish.)




This is a good thing, McDutchie.

Think about how creatively paralyzing that would be, collaborating with someone they consider brilliant. It would just make them self-concious.

While I understand your point, remember that they all knew Frank (or Charles) before they were famous, which is important as well. Their history enables them to work with him and not see him as this brilliant songwriter operating above them.

I agree, he is brilliant but I think their perspective keeps things healthy for all of them.

cheers
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pot
* Dog in the Sand *

United Kingdom
2371 Posts

Posted - 09/06/2016 :  21:05:54  Show Profile  Visit pot's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I think they are being paralysed by the legacy of Pixies. They're either trying too hard or not hard enough to live up to that. Who am I to criticise their efforts? I've never written a song in my life. I also take the point raised about Charles' more mature vocals that sometimes don't seem to work anymore and just sound like a normal Frank Black song. The new albums aren't really working out for me, but hey thanks anyway Pixies. You make better post-Pixies Pixies albums than I ever could.

Edited by - pot on 09/06/2016 21:06:21
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Stevio10
= Cult of Ray =

United Kingdom
646 Posts

Posted - 09/07/2016 :  00:19:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I don't think it's lazy songwriting - I think it's by design the songs have removed a lot of foreplay (for want of a better word).

They spent a lot of time on these songs, writing, pre production and even discussed how it should sound before writing had begun. Sure there are songs left over that have most likely evolved (Masher, oona).

I can't think of a Pixies song without the chorus coming to mind first. Sure I like the intricacies and build up but it's always the chorus. Tenement Song is no different for me really liking it.

Reminds me a little of Death Cab For Cutie, Crooked Teeth

https://youtu.be/uJuc8vFjx3s
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sdon
= Cult of Ray =

France
527 Posts

Posted - 09/07/2016 :  01:27:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
^^ I don't agree with the chorus thing, I mean it's not my feeling

To me, a lot of Pixies songs are memorable for their first verse: Bone Machine, WIMM, Cactus, River Euphrates, Debaser, I Bleed, Tame, Gouge Away, Planet of Sound, Alec Eiffel, Motorway to Roswell
The genius is there, and then the chorus flows almost logically from there

Whereas now, it sounds sometimes like a collage, it's not as fluid

--
"Aristophanes! (gong sounds)"

Edited by - sdon on 09/07/2016 01:28:43
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picpic
* Dog in the Sand *

Belgium
1159 Posts

Posted - 09/07/2016 :  01:36:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Tons of Pixies songs each have their own non-verse/chorus/verse structures.

Alec Eiffel. Chorus ? What chorus ?
Is Rock Music a 2-minutes chorus ?

Less crazy since IC for sure.

___
"Service Unavailable"
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pot
* Dog in the Sand *

United Kingdom
2371 Posts

Posted - 09/07/2016 :  03:40:03  Show Profile  Visit pot's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Verse chorus verse chorus, chorus repeating song title over and over is just lame and the Pixies are better than this.
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sdon
= Cult of Ray =

France
527 Posts

Posted - 09/07/2016 :  03:41:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Cactus doesn't seem to have a chorus
Nor Sad Punk, Subbacultcha (or very short), Trompe (song), Bird Dream...

--
"Aristophanes! (gong sounds)"
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sdon
= Cult of Ray =

France
527 Posts

Posted - 09/07/2016 :  03:43:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by pot

Verse chorus verse chorus, chorus repeating song title over and over is just lame and the Pixies are better than this.



+ songs having the word "song" in their title is a rather poor device

--
"Aristophanes! (gong sounds)"
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pot
* Dog in the Sand *

United Kingdom
2371 Posts

Posted - 09/07/2016 :  03:52:35  Show Profile  Visit pot's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I snapped and listened to the other three songs, Baal's Back, Classic Masher and Head Carrier and I like them more than Tenement Song. I also think Classic Masher is a great title for a song. It's just not the old Pixies and they never will be again and that's obviously kind of sad, but it's OK because there are tons of great new indie bands everywhere as well.

http://pitchfork.com/news/66975-watch-pixies-debut-new-head-carrier-songs/
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