| Author |
 Topic  |
|
koabac
- FB Fan -
11 Posts |
 Posted - 01/22/2014 : 19:48:06
|
Sorry, gotta rant here for a second...
I don't know about you guys, but I think the reaction to the new Pixies material has been bizarre. From the "official" critical reaction to the blogs, the opinions go from "this is great!" to the meanest, most hostile contempt. I've actually, literally seen each and every song off both EP's be called the "best" and also the "worst" of the new stuff by different people. I've seen people who love it call people who hate it "deaf nostalgia idiots" and people who hate it call people who love it the exact same thing. I don't remember ever seeing this kind of polarized reaction to any music - and it's not even ONLY polarized - there's every reaction in between, too.
Most people who don't like the new music also seem to compare it to Black Francis/Frank Black's solo career as if that automatically dismisses it as bad. To me, this clearly means they never really listened or gave a chance to his solo career. Why is there such hostility towards Black Francis, anyway? Do people really not see that if you're a Pixies fan, you're a fan of Black Francis songs sung by Black Francis? That's, like, 98% what the Pixies were - and if you REALLY think Kim Deal makes or breaks Pixies music, then you must not love "Bossanova" or "Trompe Le Monde" because the only way you can really tell she's there is if you read the liner notes and it says she's the bass player. After their beloved Pixies broke up, the exact same guy who was the creative force behind the Pixies just continued on making great album after album. Honestly, I think "Cult of Ray" is a great skate-punk album. "Honeycomb" is a great alt. country album. He explored a huge range of styles and really learned his craft, all the while keeping his unique point of view and voice as a songwriter. What's not to love? Also, for those who only want to hear "Pixies-style" songs from him, there's easily 4 or 5 ALBUMS worth of "Pixies-Style" songs scattered throughout his solo career that are as good as anything the Pixies ever did.
I, personally, love the new Pixies material and have followed and loved Black Francis since Surfa Rosa, all through his solo career, up to the present and have been blown away by the breadth, scope, consistency, brilliance and courage of his work. Some people are actually accusing Black Francis of being CAREERIST as if he is cynically raping his fans with this new music as some kind of "money grab." Careerist?!! Black Francis?!! Seriously? I couldn't think of an artist who could care less what audiences and critics expect from him and if he had wanted to pander to audiences and make money, he wouldn't have made virtually ANY of the career/creative choices he has ever made. It's hard to think of any artist who has MORE integrity than Black Francis. The cynical money-grab move would be to keep playing the old, safe stuff and not risk everything by releasing new music - like Kim Deal wanted. Being over cautious about one's "legacy" is so lame and anti-Pixies anyone who suggest it should be embarrassed. What great creative artist ever kept pumping out the same kinda thing over and over without changing their style, risking everything, and following their muse wherever it led them? Dylan, the Beatles, Elvis Costello, David Bowie, Tom Waits, Nick Cave - on and on - the BEST artists know it's hard to hit a moving target and explore their art and craft, critics and audiences be damned. Yet here we are 40 years after Dylan went electric, shouting "Judas" at Black Francis for not recreating "Surfer Rosa" by the numbers. Please understand, I don't dislike Kim Deal in anyway, I just think she's given WAY too much credit. The Pixies are to the Breeders what Nirvana was to the Foo Fighters. Dave Grohl is a great songwriter and musician, but Kurt Cobain was from another planet - like Black Francis.
The huge swing in opinion suggests to me that people aren't being really subjective about the new music, itself, and have made up their minds before they ever heard it. That could also be true for some people who love it, although, I think it's more likely true of people who hate it with so much hostility. If some of them were told Kim Deal WAS playing on the new tracks, I honestly believe a lot of people would have liked the same songs they hate because she's not on them. I swear I could surgically remove 8 certain songs out of the Pixies early music and, if no one had heard them before, slap them on two EP's and release them now and everyone would be saying the same things about THEM. At the same time, if you slipped a few of these new songs into their old albums and made others B-Sides, these same people would be saying how those songs are some of the Pixies best stuff. A song like "What Goes Boom" could have easily been on "Trompe Le Monde" and, imo, it's better than "Space (I Believe In)." I've listened to all the new songs on shuffle mixed in with the old Pixies songs and, seriously, they fit right in pretty seamlessly.
Don't get me wrong - I DO understand some of the criticism of the new material. Honestly, I think the real problem is the production. For some reason, Gil Norton seems to have squashed the songs with compression, squeezing some of the life out of them. And, yeah, sure, they do lack a bit of the old spontaneous, loose insanity of some of their earlier work, but so did much of "Trompe." None of their albums sound like one another and even the songwriting, from album to album, seems to have different approaches. The thing is, virtually all these Pixies "signature" song elements can be found throughout the new songs, as well (not to mention throughout Black's solo work). There ARE time signature and dynamic shifts, there ARE screams, growls and whispers, there ARE Santiago's amazing counterintuitive melodic and harmonic screeches, gurgles and blasts, there ARE twisted lyrics about sex and aliens. What defines the Pixies' "sound" that's missing? The songs may be a little "straighter" than, say, "Broken Face" or "Hey," but a lot of their songs are pretty straight ahead musically like "Wave of Mutilation" or "Letter To Memphis."
Finally, I wish Kim Deal (and maybe the others, as well) had the balls to record the songs Black Francis first offered them in 2006 that ended up on scattered on "Bluefinger," "Svn Fngrs" and "Christmass" (great albums all of them) because those would have made fantastic Pixies songs that I think may have been more satisfying to the people mentally resisting these newer songs (and refusing to listen to the solo albums, so they missed them). In interviews, Black Francis, himself, seems to suggest even he was a little uptight about finally writing songs specifically for the Pixies now, as opposed to that first explosion of creative inspiration back in 2006. "Indie Cindy" apparently is about this very issue. I have no doubt that as he relaxes into it, the new stuff will keep getting better and better - and it's great already. The new songs are certainly getting a triumphant reaction live from what I've read.
Anyway, thanks so much for letting me rant. I needed to bitch about this because it's been bugging me. I am alone in these feelings? What do you guys think? |
|
|
picpic
* Dog in the Sand *
Belgium
1875 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2014 : 20:35:55
|
I personaly really like both EPs (with my preference for EP-1 and its real gem: Indie Cindy, a song that contains about everything I love in the Pixies ! and proves that they are still an amazing band).
But I don't have any problem with people disliking the new EPs (or any other record). The main reason behind those people being so vocal about it is IMHO because they must consider the original Pixies to be an immaculate Cult rock band entroned in the Pantheon of Cult rock bands. Like some paintings in museums, they don't want them to change or make anything new.
For my part, as much as I love everything the Pixies (and Frank solo) did in the past, I just can't wait for what they will do in the future and I like what they're doing now. Even if their "heyday" has passed, I really don't care. And I don't care either if any new music is just "average" quality. Not a problem for me.
I prefer a band that's experimenting new thing and continues to make art than four people resting on their laurels.
___
"Service Unavailable" |
 |
|
|
Joey Joe Jo Jr. Chabadoo
* Dog in the Sand *
1091 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2014 : 00:28:03
|
Big woop-dee-doo !
++++ |
|
|
|
Discoking
* Dog in the Sand *
Belgium
1141 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2014 : 01:19:46
|
i don't care what others think about music. so it's not bugging me at all.
personally, i'm going to let the new eps sink in a bit more, slowly. i think i'll enjoy them even more once they sound familiar.
i don't feel the need to rate everything, let alone rate everything immediately, so there's no stress there.
keep on truckin'! chillax!
 it's educational |
|
|
|
koabac
- FB Fan -
11 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2014 : 04:52:25
|
Well, yeah, of course none of the above rates with "cancer" and "war" as a big problem facing mankind, and Black Francis, as usual, already set the "Big woop-dee-do!" tone, himself, about all these issues with "Who cares? It's only a rock and roll band" type statements, but being a long time member of this board who has yet to post, I had some catching up to do with, say, for instance, someone with 931 posts on a Frank Black-related DISCUSSION FORUM, all of which, I'm sure, were of enormous importance to the safety and security of planet Earth..
I mean, I just assumed THIS was the place to analyze and discuss a Pixies-related subject that interests you and the last place a passionate dissection of the Pixies new music, along with an examination of how and why people are reacting strangely towards it, would be dismissed out of hand.
My point isn't that I care if someone else does or doesn't like any particular music, it's that there's something strange to me about WHY the reaction has been what its been and why some people have been making SUCH a big "woop-dee-do" about a band they liked releasing music they don't like that much. It seems like something, deeper, more psychosomatic is in play with this new music and that's what interests me.
Although, now I'm also interested in why someone would join a music discussion forum if they think discussing music-related issues is silly. Oh well. |
Edited by - koabac on 01/23/2014 04:57:13 |
|
|
|
fumanbru
* Dog in the Sand *
Canada
1462 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2014 : 05:57:51
|
i like your take koabac. i too find it strange at the wide range of opinions. i think if the new music was really truly awful i think there would be a much higher percentage of people really unhappy with the ep's. and it's a mystery to me why some people absolutely love the pixies but arent't interested in his solo material. it's the same guy driving the bus! maybe it's just because fbf has such a wide range of music styles and sounds and some people just relate to a certain sound. i love all of it! love the new material and excited about more new music, touring, and interviews.
 "I joined the Cult of Frank/ cause I'm a real go-getter!"...long live snitz!! |
|
|
|
natenate101
= Cult of Ray =
USA
895 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2014 : 07:03:03
|
Its not really that difficult to understand why different people feel different ways about music, is it?
I love the new stuff, but can easily see why some may not. Whether this is due to expectations, comparing to Pixies 1.0/Frank solo/Catholics/BF, the production, the no Deal stuff, etc.... |
|
|
|
Jason
* Dog in the Sand *
1446 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2014 : 09:29:37
|
There is a distinct lack of consensus here. For every bad review, you can find a good review. I find this amusing and healthy.
I'm with most of koabac's points (I continue to not give half-a-damn about the compression thing). |
|
|
|
simibaby
= Cult of Ray =
405 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2014 : 09:53:12
|
What I'm gonna say here has nothing to do with the individual songs, of course..............But I love the concept of a FULL new album (or CD)of like 11 to 13 songs as an entirety. Since these are the first, new Pixies songs after all these years, a whole album released at once would've been my preference. But that's just the way I've always treasured my music. Of the 8 new tunes I basically LOVE 4-5 of them LIKE A LOT 2 ans could do without 1 (or two)? But woulda loved it all released as one whole album "THE FIRST NEW PIXIES STUDIO ALBUM IN 22 YEARS!"
(as the old adverts used to say.) Opening track on that new 12 song Pixies album woulda been "BAGBOY"!!!
It's all good anyway. lol!
|
|
|
|
sdon
= Cult of Ray =
France
786 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2014 : 10:23:51
|
Time will tell where those tracks stand.
Psychologically, or psychosomatically, as koabac said, there may be something to find.
I know several people who were as uberfans as I was, and who don't like the new songs at all.
And they do not think in terms of production, lyrics, Deal... They're just saying "the Pixies? In 2014? What's the point?"
To them it's like a regression. They're not in the emotional state they were in 20-25 years ago, when they were teenagers or young adults discovering a music so drastically new, dangerous, poisonous, different, seductive... that resonated with their own guts and feelings... They're just not interested in going back there.
But to me, what they fail to understand is that the Pixies neither. They've all matured, gained perspective on life and on rock n' roll, too.
I find those new Pixies incredibly interesting (and I've already said here how much I rate anything done together by Charles & Joey higher than FB solo), but I can totally understand that other listeners have trodden other paths and cannot just find any interest in Pixies now.
--
"Aristophanes! (gong sounds)" |
Edited by - sdon on 01/23/2014 10:32:48 |
|
|
|
Jason
* Dog in the Sand *
1446 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2014 : 10:45:10
|
Me, I don't care about the Pixies at all. There's nothing sacred or magical for me about the band. I don't compare these songs to stuff from the 80s and early 90s. I don't even think about that. I just want new songs from Frank. He's a great songwriter. I'll take his latest stuff in whatever form he wants to present them. If this is it, I'm in. It's been a fun ride, I say.
Pretty much every record that Frank has made in the past couple decades has gotten wildly mixed reviews. These new Pixies EPs are no different, except that more people are listening and the reviews are higher profile (they're the TOP review on Pitchfork that day instead of the second or third review in smaller print below the big one). Otherwise, it's same old, same old. |
|
|
|
Jason
* Dog in the Sand *
1446 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2014 : 11:49:53
|
Also, it might be constructive to note that, for all the controversy, the whole US tour looks to be on the verge of selling out:
http://www.pixiesmusic.com/new/ |
|
|
|
peter radiator
= Cult of Ray =
USA
667 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2014 : 12:46:39
|
Welcome to posting here, koabac.
FWIW, I agree with the many of the points you made in your first missive in this thread, and have been a bit disappointed/mystified by the overall reaction to the EPs myself - as one might surmise from my recent musings.
I think all of the new material released so far actually blends quite nicely with (and complements) their earlier catalog - in different ways and to different degrees. Not that it would have had to for me to appreciate it...
I hope you will continue to offer up your perspectives. :)
~ Peter Radiator
"Real music is out there and real people are making it." ~ Webb Wilder |
Edited by - peter radiator on 01/23/2014 13:30:02 |
|
|
|
simibaby
= Cult of Ray =
405 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2014 : 13:09:17
|
| Agree w/ Jason. The P's or any band, are neither sacred, mystical or any of that. To me, A SONG is either great/good/meh or whatever. |
|
|
|
koabac
- FB Fan -
11 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2014 : 17:26:13
|
Jason and simi - I agree totally on the Frank focus. For those of us who just stuck with him after the pixies broke up, there became no real distinction between any of his "bands" - it's all just Charles Thompson songs backed by whomever he was playing with at that time, although everyone may have personal favorite albums or eras.
I hear you about the compression thing, Jason, it doesn't really bother me, either. I was just focusing on the production as a possible reason some people may not be hearing all the Pixie-ish goodness there in the tracks.
peter radiator - thanks for the kind welcome. It is appreciated :) |
|
|
|
brickisred
- FB Fan -
France
141 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2014 : 01:12:20
|
I think part of the problem is that Black Francis has often made statements that downplay his ambitions and the motivations behind the Pixies. For instance, many people take for granted his statement that money was the main reason for the reunion. However, he has made a lot of statements that contradict the negative ones. Personally, I have always considered that everything Black Francis says about his music has to be taken with a grain of salt. He is able to both feed and attack the Pixies legend, sometimes in the very same interview.
I am one of these people who are totally unable to have an objective opinion on the new songs. I may be one of the few who is fully aware of it and this is why I have not expressed my opinions in this forum. I often listen to the songs and this is always the same frustrating result: I do like this one but do I like it as much as I like the old ones? I do not like this one, or I do not really like it, or... well, I do not know if I like it or not. It will take time, maybe a couple of years before I can really make a clear personal judgement.
My take is that as long as the Pixies release new songs, there is a good chance that among them some will eventually stand the test to time and will rate among their best ever. Maybe one of them, independent from its quality, will become as well known as Where Is My Mind (a song that I like but has never been in my top 20 or 30 Pixies songs). Maybe they will release EPs and albums that are so so or just good, and then one day will issue a new masterpiece. Because the most important thing about the Pixies right now is that they are likely to record in the future songs that have not been written yet, and this is really an exciting thought. |
|
|
|
natenate101
= Cult of Ray =
USA
895 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2014 : 02:43:21
|
quote:
Originally posted by brickisred
Because the most important thing about the Pixies right now is that they are likely to record in the future songs that have not been written yet, and this is really an exciting thought.
Agreed on this, very exciting to see what comes after these Wales sessions bunch. Now that the rust is shaken off and with Joey and David both having said the next stuff will be more hard rocking. |
|
|
|
The New Bolero
= Cult of Ray =
394 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2014 : 05:05:31
|
| Back in 04 when the reunion started and we got Bam Thwock and the Zevon cover I remember Kim started rolling out the protect the legacy stuff but Frank restlessly saying something like the hell with the legacy and he'd piss all over the legacy if it meant a chance at recording new Pixies music. Anyone else remember that piss on the legacy quote? |
|
|
|
tedbra
- FB Fan -
17 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2014 : 20:48:20
|
Just like 25 years ago, these songs are getting no airplay and I love it. Not many people in the states liked Pixies 1.0, then over time and with the help of Fight Club and the reunion, many came around to a sound that was way ahead of it's time, but 20 years later it didn't sound so different because so many bands had imitated them, so it was easier for these late comers to get it.
I found this to be true with my own friends. I was head over heels for the Pixies in 1994, a year after the breakup, so brutal, but none of my friends really were. Then when the reunion came around, all the sudden all my friends loved the Pixies.
I'm hoping this is what's happening again. Of course none of those newbies are going to like the new stuff, they don't have an ear for music, because if they did they would have liked the Pixies before the reunion.
I love that it's all for the true fans again. God, I hope this made sense.
Ted |
|
|
|
simibaby
= Cult of Ray =
405 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2014 : 21:16:51
|
| Made a lot of sense.....right from the heart peace |
|
|
|
Stevio10
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
1133 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2014 : 01:46:38
|
I agree with all your points koabac and had the same thoughts and frustrations.
After a lot of debating, thinking and probable over-analysis I have come to the conclusion that every Pixies fan is a unique and beautiful snowflake.
Because of the pixies' quality of music and persona pulls music lovers of multiple genres they have a fanbase of very diverse demographics.
What makes the Pixies special is different for me than it will be for others.
Rather than getting into debates and accusations of not listening to something correctly, it is important to remember that anyone who likes the pixies has probably found them through having a good taste in music and their opinions are as valid as anyone elses no matter how bizarre or deranged they may seem.
What is fascinating though is how people hold the pixies so closely and dearly to themselves, that to me is why there is this steep contrast in opinion and review scores.
The reviews, rants, debates and what not say more about the person than it does about the band.
I feel that had these EP's been released in 2005 or 2006 they would be hailed as masterpieces by the music media atleast. On the topic of the sound compression, I think it has been overemphasised to fill the gaps so that the lack of Kim Deal backing vocals are not noticed, but that is just my opinion.
If the pixies belong - or have a duty to - anyone or anything, it would probably be something intangible such as the global domination of the planet of sound, certainly not any accountability to us.
Not a band I like but I like this line from Oasis, quite suitable "Please don't put your life in the hands of a rock and roll band who will throw it all away". |
|
|
|
koabac
- FB Fan -
11 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2014 : 06:28:42
|
VERY interesting thoughts. tedbra - I hadn't considered the AGE of the listener, therefore, WHEN they got into the Pixies, may have something to do with it. The post-Pixies/post-Nirvana world was very different than the musical landscape WHEN the Pixies first emerged. The Pixies have been romanticized a bit over the years, kinda like the Beatles, where the ex-Beatles have always struggled against the Legend. It never seemed to matter to people that it's the exact same guys now giving their audience 4 albums of "Beatles songs" individually, as opposed to where they were STILL writing individually (as well as RECORDING individually towards the end) and then combining their work on only 1 album. I guess an argument could be made that without the group dynamic, they weren't pushed to do their best work, but, from what I've read, they were still all feeling competitive with one another as solo artists.
Stevio - while I agree in spirit with the "unique and beautiful snowflake" idea, I guess what was at the heart of my rant was the mean-spirited hatred and lack of personal respect being thrown at Black Francis and the remaining Pixies. Sure Black Francis shrugs it all off, but clearly he had cared enough that people like his new Pixies stuff that he wrote "Indie Cindy" (I beg for you to carry me" is a far cry from "Big woop-dee-doo") and Joey Santiago half-jokiingly challenged the Pitchfork critic to an alley fight. Actively and unreasonably discouraging people from listening to and enjoying something based on what appears to be a knee-jerk, reflexive reaction is irresponsible. Obviously the new Pixies material isn't the worst music ever released as they, and others, would have people believe. There is clearly something else going on here. I mean, surely, everyone's entitled to their own opinion - that's what makes life interesting - so, I suppose I'm just exploring what's interesting to me about those different opinions, more than condemning anyone for having them. No one should police other people's subjective tastes, but if someone's going to suggest I'm an uncool idiot for liking this stuff, even though I don't care because I know they're being silly, I think showing the other side of the argument is reasonable if it prevents even one person from from supporting the Pixies on this leg of their journey. As someone who also feeds his family through creative work, I kinda take it personally that someone I respect who has given me so much great, inspiring music should get sucker-punched like that. The Pitchfork guy is NOT a "beautiful snowflake" to me. |
|
|
|
velvety
= Cult of Ray =
Portugal
536 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2014 : 06:58:11
|
| . |
Edited by - velvety on 01/25/2014 14:41:42 |
|
|
|
Stevio10
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
1133 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2014 : 07:23:59
|
I totally agree koabac :)
The vitriol is not called for especially in the media or reviews.
The pitchfork review is not what I would call music journalism - there is nothing that separates that guys review from any other guy on the street which is pretty annoying as being in such a position helps shape musical opinion.
The reasononing for his dismissive review (apparently, according to another reviewer at Pitchfork) is because he holds the pixies so close to him and - presumebly - that he cannot objectively review what he is listening to.
So yeah I don't see him as a beautiful snowflake either (that phrase is pretty awful! Im sorry I borrowed it from Fight Club!).
I dont know if my post had a point or not, but I guess when the pixies are involved it is very hard to be objective as they mean so much to so many.
|
|
|
|
OLDMANOTY
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
469 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2014 : 08:26:19
|
| I'm trying to refrain from reading comments under Pixies articles now. The vitriol borders on psychotic with some of them, and often literally make no sense at all. Still, at least it's provoked a reaction of some kind, not the almost universal shrug that greeted FB solo. |
|
|
|
koabac
- FB Fan -
11 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2014 : 13:10:02
|
| Good point, Oldmanoty. At least people are talking about the Pixies in a current, what they're up to now, context instead of this Thing frozen in amber between 1987 and 1993. I have a hard time thinking of any other reunited or continuing, for that matter, band over 25 years old that people would get this worked up over. Clearly they're being punished by certain people for simply not releasing music that's exactly like whatever their abstract mental image of what "a good, new Pixies song" should/would/could sound like. "Slightly bland compared to Debaser" is, to them, considered a federal crime, I suppose. Imagine what the reaction would have been if the new stuff WAS actually as bad as Pitchfork claimed? |
|
|
|
natenate101
= Cult of Ray =
USA
895 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2014 : 14:56:16
|
| I definitely thing the response would be more kind if Kim Deal was still in Pixies. Without her, the media can and huge Kim fans are free to take cheap shots at BF. It's silly. |
|
|
|
Arm Arm Arm
* Dog in the Sand *
1038 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2014 : 16:15:15
|
quote:
Originally posted by koabac
Clearly they're being punished by certain people for simply not releasing music that's exactly like whatever their abstract mental image of what "a good, new Pixies song" should/would/could sound like. "Slightly bland compared to Debaser" is, to them, considered a federal crime, I suppose.
Unless something's changed over the years, it seemed like most reviewers considered Bossanova and particularly Trompe, as lesser Pixies albums while Doolittle remained the peak. I recall reading articles over the years, noting the lack of Kim Deal's prominence on Trompe and how the songwriting was just not as good. Well, by that standard, EP-1 and 2 are just following along this "downward path." Did anyone really think, after more than twenty years, we'd get Twolittle? They didn't do that then, why would they now?
|
|
|
|
BunsenH
= Cult of Ray =
296 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2014 : 17:03:14
|
quote:
Originally posted by Arm Arm Arm
quote:
Originally posted by koabac
Clearly they're being punished by certain people for simply not releasing music that's exactly like whatever their abstract mental image of what "a good, new Pixies song" should/would/could sound like. "Slightly bland compared to Debaser" is, to them, considered a federal crime, I suppose.
Unless something's changed over the years, it seemed like most reviewers considered Bossanova and particularly Trompe, as lesser Pixies albums while Doolittle remained the peak. I recall reading articles over the years, noting the lack of Kim Deal's prominence on Trompe and how the songwriting was just not as good. Well, by that standard, EP-1 and 2 are just following along this "downward path." Did anyone really think, after more than twenty years, we'd get Twolittle? They didn't do that then, why would they now?
That's true about the general opinion of reviewers, but Bossanova is the best, hands down. |
|
|
|
koabac
- FB Fan -
11 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2014 : 20:33:49
|
Yeah, I also get the sense that the general view is that Bossanova and Trompe weren't as strong (although, I tend to agree with BunsenH - and most Pixies fans divide up between Surfer Rosa, Doolittle or Bossanova being their favorites). Personally, I think Teenager Of The Year is stronger than Trompe, but it also seems like the general view is that ALL of the Pixies releases were astonishingly good and it's like ranking your four favorite orgasms - ONE of them HAD to have been the worst of the four, but it's not like you're complaining.
And good point about expectations, Arm Arm Arm - if you were actually paying attention, expecting anything like Doolittle NOW does seem a bit foolish when they abandoned that sound by their very next record. |
Edited by - koabac on 01/25/2014 20:34:04 |
|
|
|
picpic
* Dog in the Sand *
Belgium
1875 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2014 : 22:25:04
|
quote:
Originally posted by koabac
Yeah, I also get the sense that the general view is that Bossanova and Trompe weren't as strong
Astonishingly, Frank himself said in some documentary (don't remember the name, but it was on youtube) that he wasn't very proud of the songs he wrote for Bossanova / Trompe Le Monde...
I think we all disagree with him on that point...
___
"Service Unavailable" |
|
|
|
trobrianders
> Teenager of the Year <
Papua New Guinea
3302 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2014 : 23:34:38
|
quote:
Originally posted by picpic
quote:
Originally posted by koabac
Yeah, I also get the sense that the general view is that Bossanova and Trompe weren't as strong
Astonishingly, Frank himself said in some documentary (don't remember the name, but it was on youtube) that he wasn't very proud of the songs he wrote for Bossanova / Trompe Le Monde...
I think we all disagree with him on that point...
___
"Service Unavailable"
Charles didn't say he wasn't proud of them, he said he didn't regret writing them, he just regretted not rewriting them. I can hear that in them. Anyway I take him at his word.
The doc was called "Gouge" btw, it's on their first DVD release along with their best filmed show IMO, also up on youtube.
_______________
Ed is the hoo hoo |
|
|
|
picpic
* Dog in the Sand *
Belgium
1875 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2014 : 05:46:16
|
Yes, it was that documentary.
95% about the first 3 records, 5% on "Bossanova" & "Trompe le Monde" with comments like "they were really struggling by their standards at that point", blah blah... sorry but I totally disagree. When I hear those two records, I hear Charles creativity taking off in a fantastic blast, not some songwriter struggling and failing to be up to his previous standards... That's why I was a little surprised to hear Charles nearly "giving credit" to those statements. But that's probably the way the documentary was edited that gave me this impression... I haven't re-watched it recently.
___
"Service Unavailable" |
|
|
|
koabac
- FB Fan -
11 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2014 : 07:35:02
|
He may have also been referring to the fact he came into both those sessions with very few completed songs, and everyone was waiting around, pressuring him to finish lyrics. They were forced to go back to some older songs and throw in some covers, etc. He also admits he was smoking a bit too many funny cigarettes to be as focused as he would have liked to have been. I imagine this is why HE thinks he could have done better, but, like R.E.M.'s "Lifes Rich Pageant," which was besieged with the same issues, the results were spectacular to the audience.
I remember when they were starting to record "Trompe," I had dinner with Kim Deal and she was ragging on "Bossanova" because she thought it didn't "rock" enough, but was VERY pleased with the new stuff they were doing for what became "Trompe" because it was going back to what they did best. I argued that "Bossanova" was brilliant and just different than the other stuff, but that they had created a sound unlike anything I had ever heard that still felt "Pixies," but in a totally original way. It became clear that the troubled, frustrating process of creating their albums really fed into what they felt about the results. Many times an artist is the worst judge of their own work. |
|
|
|
Arm Arm Arm
* Dog in the Sand *
1038 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2014 : 07:48:47
|
| Trompe and Surfer are my favorites but I also really love Bossnova too. The Happening and All Over The World are two amazing songs and I enjoy the mix of rockers and more lush recordings; Havalina is so soothing. |
|
|
|
sdon
= Cult of Ray =
France
786 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2014 : 09:13:56
|
Trompe and Surfer are also my favorites too!
Trompe is very creative and original (as Bowie said), and more interesting to me than TOTY (which has some great 'hits', but whose sound I don't really like, too "treble". Bizarrely, I find TOTY a bit fat,as FB was becoming then, whereas Trompe is still lean and 'fit')
Bossanova and Trompe are so great because of the lyrics for sure and the creative leap made by Joey.
Someone said that Kim Deal's bass on these is undermixed, I disagree, just listen to Is She Weird, The Happening, or Subbacultcha.
Anyway, great to see that Pixies are regarded as a current, vital band, and ready to release tons of new tracks
--
"Aristophanes! (gong sounds)" |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
Ranting about reaction to new Pixies EPs
