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IBreed
= Cult of Ray =
310 Posts |
 Posted - 09/14/2013 : 17:01:03
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| pixies fans would riot after hearing 'headache'??? is there anyone here who doesn't think it stands alongside their best? |
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johnnyribcage
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1301 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2013 : 18:55:39
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TOTY smokes everything else Charles or the Pixies ever did like a cheap cigar. Get in the fast lane, Grandma: there's TOTY, and there's everything else.
I try to separate the two, but it's hard.
Everybody calm down, I'm the Burgermeister of Purgatory |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2013 : 19:02:00
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quote:
Originally posted by johnnyribcage
TOTY smokes everything else Charles or the Pixies ever did like a cheap cigar. Get in the fast lane, Grandma: there's TOTY, and there's everything else.
I try to separate the two, but it's hard.
Everybody calm down, I'm the Burgermeister of Purgatory
i almost agree with you. i like the spirit behind what you're saying. because TOTY is fucking amazing.
but to me there's Surfer Rosa and everything else
 green star member since 2006. smb? |
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sdon
= Cult of Ray =
France
786 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2013 : 22:19:22
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As much as I loved TOTY when it came out, because of my hunger for anything Pixies-related, I'm afraid with time I realized it's not as good as anything the Pixies released. Most songs are great, but some are cheesy (I must admit now after years of denial), and the whole is a bit 'indigest'
Pixies were rawer, weirder, but more profound.
that's when I understood that my idol BF doest not make the Pixies alone : David, Kim (and of course Joey, though he's featured on TOTY, too rarely) were needed to help him select the proper songs, and to arrange them with their unique personalities.
I'm rather convinced BF knows that, and that he tried to free himself of the Pixies / BF persona, but never really succeeded. That is not to say he wasted 20 years of his life, because he evolved into a super-prolific songwriter, able to write anything from garage punk to americana. But his musical life-arc is now full-circle, and the Chicago interview is incredibly revealing, almost 'zen' in his approach to life and understanding himself.
The Pixies originate in BF, but BF needs the Pixies to excel,
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"Aristophanes! (gong sounds)" |
Edited by - sdon on 09/14/2013 22:21:03 |
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hammerhands
* Dog in the Sand *
Canada
1594 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2013 : 22:22:08
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| No. |
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vilainde
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Niue
7443 Posts |
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ricj
- FB Fan -
United Kingdom
106 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2013 : 23:08:18
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| N O ! |
Edited by - ricj on 09/14/2013 23:08:39 |
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vilainde
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Niue
7443 Posts |
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trobrianders
> Teenager of the Year <
Papua New Guinea
3302 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2013 : 01:37:53
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quote:
Originally posted by sdon
As much as I loved TOTY when it came out, because of my hunger for anything Pixies-related, I'm afraid with time I realized it's not as good as anything the Pixies released. Most songs are great, but some are cheesy (I must admit now after years of denial), and the whole is a bit 'indigest'
Pixies were rawer, weirder, but more profound.
that's when I understood that my idol BF doest not make the Pixies alone : David, Kim (and of course Joey, though he's featured on TOTY, too rarely) were needed to help him select the proper songs, and to arrange them with their unique personalities.
I'm rather convinced BF knows that, and that he tried to free himself of the Pixies / BF persona, but never really succeeded. That is not to say he wasted 20 years of his life, because he evolved into a super-prolific songwriter, able to write anything from garage punk to americana. But his musical life-arc is now full-circle, and the Chicago interview is incredibly revealing, almost 'zen' in his approach to life and understanding himself.
The Pixies originate in BF, but BF needs the Pixies to excel,
--
"Aristophanes! (gong sounds)"
Come on Pilgrim and everything that followed has been a terrible disappointment after the promise of those extraordinary yelps and burps and gurgles that came from Charles' cot.
_______________
Ed is the hoo hoo |
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Classic Masher
- FB Fan -
146 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2013 : 04:34:13
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quote:
Originally posted by sdon
As much as I loved TOTY when it came out, because of my hunger for anything Pixies-related, I'm afraid with time I realized it's not as good as anything the Pixies released. Most songs are great, but some are cheesy (I must admit now after years of denial), and the whole is a bit 'indigest'
Pixies were rawer, weirder, but more profound.
that's when I understood that my idol BF doest not make the Pixies alone : David, Kim (and of course Joey, though he's featured on TOTY, too rarely) were needed to help him select the proper songs, and to arrange them with their unique personalities.
I'm rather convinced BF knows that, and that he tried to free himself of the Pixies / BF persona, but never really succeeded. That is not to say he wasted 20 years of his life, because he evolved into a super-prolific songwriter, able to write anything from garage punk to americana. But his musical life-arc is now full-circle, and the Chicago interview is incredibly revealing, almost 'zen' in his approach to life and understanding himself.
The Pixies originate in BF, but BF needs the Pixies to excel,
--
"Aristophanes! (gong sounds)"
I have to agree. I would rank the different phases of his career as:
1. Pixies
2. Frank Black I (s/t, TOTY, COR)
3. Black Francis
4. Grand Duchy
5. Frank Black and the Catholics
6. Paley and Francis
7. Frank Black II (Honeycomb, FMRM)
I consider there to be too Frank Black periods since you wouldn't even think the same person is responsible for both sets of albums. It's kind of like glam Bowie in the 70's and pop Bowie in the 80's.
"Mixed messages from Sir Naff, please authenticate..." |
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vilainde
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Niue
7443 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2013 : 05:08:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Classic Masher
4. Grand Duchy
5. Frank Black and the Catholics
Denis
Obsidiana Bijoux |
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Stevio10
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
1122 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2013 : 06:42:02
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Grand Duchy over Catholics?!?! Are you insane?!
For me, the order would be...
1. Catholics (including COR, Oddballs and SSMVGD)
2. Pixies
3. FB (old yeller/TOTY)
4. Black Francis (Blue/7fngrs)
The rest I can live without, but the top 3 change around quite frequently. Catholics get the nod because I saw them live twice and they were phenomenal. |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6214 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2013 : 09:27:21
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Catholics shows were better because they would play Pixies tunes, great covers, some old FB-songs and their own amazing material.
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
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sdon
= Cult of Ray =
France
786 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2013 : 10:20:31
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Masher, we have some similar tastes
Except I don't rate Grand Duchy that high (only Fort Wayne was amazing and Pixies worthy)
And I happened to like Honeycomb (selkie bride, i burn today, my life is in storage, sing for joy) more than heavy handed Catholics productions
+ the Black Francis phase really kicked my excitement (since Christmass, but not NSE)
So, for me
1. Pixies
2. Black Francis
3. Frank Black I (s/t, TOTY, COR)
4. Frank Black II (Honeycomb, FMRM)
5. Frank Black and the Catholics
6. Paley and Francis
7. Grand Duchy
To those who shout NO! : no to what assertion exactly?
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"Aristophanes! (gong sounds)" |
Edited by - sdon on 09/15/2013 10:21:43 |
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hammerhands
* Dog in the Sand *
Canada
1594 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2013 : 10:40:47
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| live to two-track |
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vilainde
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Niue
7443 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2013 : 10:42:26
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quote:
Originally posted by sdon
4. Frank Black II (Honeycomb, FMRM)
5. Frank Black and the Catholics
Denis
Obsidiana Bijoux |
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velvety
= Cult of Ray =
Portugal
536 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2013 : 11:05:56
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Yes, Denis, some people really don't like the Catholics phase. Even if they released the awesome Dog In The Sand. Those albums are too hit or miss (with the exception of DITS, of course). And the live-to-two-track think never made it any better. I've always wondered why so many people in here freaking love the Catholics-period. Amazing live band, but those albums... meh.
But yeah, agreed that Grand Duchy and FB2.o (Honeycomb and FMRM) over the Catholics is kind of crazy. |
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johnnyribcage
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1301 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2013 : 12:10:46
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Catholics fucking forever.
Everybody calm down, I'm the Burgermeister of Purgatory |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2013 : 12:23:33
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quote:
Originally posted by vilainde
quote:
Originally posted by sdon
4. Frank Black II (Honeycomb, FMRM)
5. Frank Black and the Catholics
Denis
Obsidiana Bijoux
hehehehehe
green star member since 2006. smb? |
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Active Duck
~ Abstract Brain ~
United Kingdom
434 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2013 : 12:49:50
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My head says...
1. Pixies
2. Frank Black I (s/t, TOTY, COR)
3. Frank Black and the Catholics
4. Black Francis
5. Frank Black II (Honeycomb, FMRM)
6. Paley and Francis
7. Grand Duchy
but my heart says..
1. Frank Black and the Catholics
2. Frank Black I (s/t, TOTY, COR)
3. Pixies |
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Classic Masher
- FB Fan -
146 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2013 : 13:42:02
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I don't understand all the hate directed at Grand Duchy. It's fun music with boy-girl harmonies. Ft Wayne, Come On Over To My House, Black Suit, Shady, Where is John Frum? are all really good songs. It reminds me of Garbage (the band- to head off any jokes).
"Mixed messages from Sir Naff, please authenticate..." |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2013 : 16:04:52
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Denis rocking the jpegs.
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PixieSteve
> Teenager of the Year <
Poland
4698 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2013 : 23:01:15
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quote:
Originally posted by sdon
As much as I loved TOTY ... it's not as good as anything the Pixies released.
False. It's the best album ever.
Also, I realised recently that the weakest lead guitar on this album is all Joey's.
I like to complain |
Edited by - PixieSteve on 09/15/2013 23:03:53 |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6214 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2013 : 23:17:14
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I would rank Yellow/Orange above TOTY, altough it's one body of work to me, actually.
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
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sdon
= Cult of Ray =
France
786 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2013 : 23:40:25
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Agree
Yellow and TOTY could easily be reunited
In my dreams, a selection of songs could actually be performed live by the "actual Pixies"
Los Angeles, Ten Percenter, Czar, Thalassocracy, Freedom Rock, White Noise Maker...
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"Aristophanes! (gong sounds)" |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6214 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2013 : 02:12:49
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Songs FB and the C's would actually play.
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
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shineoftheever
> Teenager of the Year <
Canada
4307 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2013 : 04:49:23
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quote:
Originally posted by sdon
As much as I loved TOTY when it came out, because of my hunger for anything Pixies-related, I'm afraid with time I realized it's not as good as anything the Pixies released. Most songs are great, but some are cheesy (I must admit now after years of denial), and the whole is a bit 'indigest'
Pixies were rawer, weirder, but more profound.
that's when I understood that my idol BF doest not make the Pixies alone : David, Kim (and of course Joey, though he's featured on TOTY, too rarely) were needed to help him select the proper songs, and to arrange them with their unique personalities.
I'm rather convinced BF knows that, and that he tried to free himself of the Pixies / BF persona, but never really succeeded. That is not to say he wasted 20 years of his life, because he evolved into a super-prolific songwriter, able to write anything from garage punk to americana. But his musical life-arc is now full-circle, and the Chicago interview is incredibly revealing, almost 'zen' in his approach to life and understanding himself.
The Pixies originate in BF, but BF needs the Pixies to excel,
--
"Aristophanes! (gong sounds)"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5YsrYQS2kI
Count me in the TOTY Uber Alles camp.
"Do Re Me So Far So Good" |
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Stevio10
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
1122 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2013 : 06:54:27
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Sorry to get away from the excitement of EP 2 but what I will say about the Catholics is their evolution and direction of sound is something that has not received the credit it really should, in my opinion atleast.
FB always has this knack to build, develop and perfect - then move on to something new at quite a pace, usually lasting an album or two. Even from Pixies beginnings with Come on Pilgrim/Surfer Rosa to Doolittle to Bossanova and Trompe.
S/T and TOTY are further examples of this, evolving further away from Trompe. And COR sounds quite a distance away from S/T and TOTY.
The Catholics Self Titled album sound was a step away from COR, I recall reading it was a demo they gave to Rick Rubin who although liked it wanted them to polish it, but the band really liked it and released it eventually after some wrangling with the record label.
From Catholics Self Titled to Pistolero, these albums sound similar in style with its rock approach, atleast similar in the way that Orange and TOTY feel similar.
What came after was a complete surprise to me, DITS was such a change in approach, Im surprised how little attention was paid to it at the time. I recall sending an email to the Martinis about how to buy their album (I was in Japan at the time) and was told by Linda that she and Joey were blown away by the new stuff.
Even listening to DITS now it amazes me how much attention to detail went into this record, with the amount of band members collaberating - Dave Philips, Joey Santiago, Eric Drew Feldman and Morris Tepper to name a few.
You can really tell they went for perfection with I've Seen Your Picture, St Francis Dam Disaster, The Swimmer, Dog in the Sand and Bullet.
But what was an even better surprise was BLD, which for me is the ultimate FB album. It took everything that was great with DITS and threw in a dose of heartache and angst with the beautiful trademark craftmanship of FB.
Southbound Bevy, Cold Heart of Stone, I Will Run After you, Chip Away Boy, California Bound, Valentine and Garuda, Jane the Queen of Love, True Blue, 21 Reasons, Whispering Weeds and Jet Black River, those are some powerful songs.
What I love about this album and the period involving the Catholics in general, was the continued search for perfection and digging deeper and deeper into an idea, an obsession of getting the right take.
I loved hearing how the Dog in the Sand track was finally the accepted take after many attempts that went into the small hours of the morning, you can almost hear the exhaustion, and the relief.
I love that FB invested time in this, that not only did we have DITS, we had BLT and Devils Workshop and is if that wasn't enough they kept going with SMYT which is another absolute stormer.
Catholics self titled and Pistolero are great in their own right but add these albums into the mix and you have 6 albums of a band evolving from a rough, raw and rocking act, into a well oiled, polished act who know when to rock and when to move you.
The best thing about the Catholics though was they were immense live. They rocked live. Their Pixies versions were better than the Pixies (or atleast the reunited Pixies). They broke down Nimrods Son first with the Catholics, Rich Gilberts guitar was like a blueslike howling wolf.
Every song had the tightness of a studio quality to it, the restraint when playing Dog in the Sand was intense but the license to rock out on classics likes Headache and Los Angeles was inspiring.
The energy McCaffrey, Gilbert and Philips had on stage alongside FB was fantastic, striking virtuoso guitar poses while FB's face turns red from screaming. They even looked cool with their cowboy shirts. Long live the Catholics!
I am very much enjoying Pixies 2.0 too :) |
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sdon
= Cult of Ray =
France
786 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2013 : 07:56:47
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for me, as much as I must admit they're better musicians than the Pixies, the Catholics are not 'cool'
They're too good to be cool
there was something too vintage, polished, perfect, "canonic" in the way they played, and in the way FB composed at that time
I much prefer the Pixies because I found them so disruptive at each and every album, sometimes clumsily but always truly moving
+ "Frank Black and the Catholics" is such an uncool name
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"Aristophanes! (gong sounds)" |
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peter radiator
= Cult of Ray =
USA
653 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2013 : 08:07:59
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Stevio10,
I feel you are spot-on with most of your assessment of the Catholics' output.
I adore the Pixies (including v.2.0), but I strongly believe that The Catholics (in totality, including the ancillary players and differing lineups) are inarguably one of the absolute finest, most mature, intelligent, nuanced, ballsy and multi-faceted rock and roll bands that has ever existed.
There is an entire WORLD of rock/punk/garage/metal/old-time balladry/power-pop/prog/Americana/soul/R&B/blues and Golden-Age C&W musical vocabulary on display throughout their catalog (sometimes in the same song!), and it is all filtered through and through with FBF's unmistakable, challenging orchestrations/arrangements and hyper-clever, wink-and-nod, fringe-encompassing lyrical sensibilities.
Serious rock and roll players who "get it" cannot help but feel both bewildered, humbled and endlessly inspired by FB & The C's.
Forever and ever.
~ Peter Radiator
"Real music is out there and real people are making it." ~ Webb Wilder |
Edited by - peter radiator on 09/16/2013 08:12:43 |
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sdon
= Cult of Ray =
France
786 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2013 : 09:17:54
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If that was true, that would make them the most boring band ever :)
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"Aristophanes! (gong sounds)" |
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peter radiator
= Cult of Ray =
USA
653 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2013 : 09:26:33
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Heh.
:)
~ Peter Radiator
"Real music is out there and real people are making it." ~ Webb Wilder |
Edited by - peter radiator on 09/16/2013 09:27:00 |
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Arm Arm Arm
* Dog in the Sand *
1037 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2013 : 13:58:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Stevio10
You can really tell they went for perfection with I've Seen Your Picture, St Francis Dam Disaster, The Swimmer, Dog in the Sand and Bullet.
What I love about this album and the period involving the Catholics in general, was the continued search for perfection and digging deeper and deeper into an idea, an obsession of getting the right take.
I loved hearing how the Dog in the Sand track was finally the accepted take after many attempts that went into the small hours of the morning, you can almost hear the exhaustion, and the relief.
Not only do I agree with you about Dog in the Sand, (both song and album) but the sound quality of that album is amazing. There's so many interesting sounds in St. Francis and I'm amazed it was one take, no edits.
I haven't listened to the e.p. yet, I think I'm going to hold off until they are all released/and or compiled into an album. Either way, my preference is to hear the new songs as a group. I'd listen to an ep if it were released between albums, as something to hold the fans over, but otherwise, I want to hear a complete group of songs.
I'm still reading people's reviews though, which is interesting, between comparisons to other bands and their earlier material, I don't know what these will sound like. Knowing What Goes Boom could've fit on Trompe, gives me a rough idea of what to expect, but I know the actual song will still surprise.
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Jose Jones
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1758 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2013 : 16:07:56
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well said, stevio10. i want to slap your ass so hard for doing a great fucking job.
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they were the heroes of old, men of renown. |
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ricj
- FB Fan -
United Kingdom
106 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2013 : 00:37:05
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| I would be infinitely more excited by the Catholics reuniting than what the Pixies are currently doing and I love what the Pixies are currently doing. |
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Topic |
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EP2
