quote:

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Originally posted by IBreed

Of course people sing along to Tame and Allison and guitar solos and death metal and ringtones. It doesn't mean they're all cut from the same cloth.

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Originally posted by Sprite

I find a huge irony in comparing the tabs of Another Toe and Green and Blues. One *looks* like a Frank Black song and one looks like what you might imagine a Nickelback song to look like. But not in the order you'd expect. But then again I don't think Another Toe sounds like Nickelback

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quote:

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Originally posted by The Champ

quote:

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Originally posted by IBreed

Of course people sing along to Tame and Allison and guitar solos and death metal and ringtones. It doesn't mean they're all cut from the same cloth.

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Then you should use a different argument, obviously.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Sprite

I find a huge irony in comparing the tabs of Another Toe and Green and Blues. One *looks* like a Frank Black song and one looks like what you might imagine a Nickelback song to look like. But not in the order you'd expect. But then again I don't think Another Toe sounds like Nickelback

GnB
http://forum.frankblack.net/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=21130

Toe
http://forum.frankblack.net/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=21101

PS Credit picpic and BrankFlack

By the way my EP2 is here but I can't play it as I broke my record player playing EP1 :(

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quote:

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Originally posted by Sprite

Hmmm I may have been too subtle for my own good. Let me spell it out.

1. Frank Black has a reputation for using unconventional chording in some songs
2. A sizeable minority of fans slag off Another Toe as being boring unconventional AOR type of stuff (comparisons to Nickelback, Blink 182 and bad Foo Fighters have been made)
3. Green and Blues has had a much more positive reaction
4. But chord wise Green and Blues is the simpler song (to me at least)
5. As a big fan of both I find that a bit ironic.
6. That is all

As to why Nickeback are disliked I'd suggest because they're music is a bit bland and derivative. This can often (but not exclusively) be associated with simplistic chording.

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quote:

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Originally posted by IBreed

quote:

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Originally posted by The Champ

quote:

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Originally posted by IBreed

Of course people sing along to Tame and Allison and guitar solos and death metal and ringtones. It doesn't mean they're all cut from the same cloth.

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Then you should use a different argument, obviously.

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Heaven help me, dude. I don't know if it's purposeful or otherwise but you're not a thorough reader.

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Originally posted by picpic

Uhhh.. Pixies have tons of classic rock songs with only a few chords and standard time signatures... vast majority of their catalog...

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quote:

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Originally posted by The Champ

quote:

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Originally posted by IBreed

quote:

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Originally posted by The Champ

quote:

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Originally posted by IBreed

Of course people sing along to Tame and Allison and guitar solos and death metal and ringtones. It doesn't mean they're all cut from the same cloth.

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Then you should use a different argument, obviously.

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Heaven help me, dude. I don't know if it's purposeful or otherwise but you're not a thorough reader.

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I read everything you said perfectly. You have not given a single point which isn't from your arbitrary subjective judgement which demonstrates the songs are any more "poppy" or "stream lined" than anything they have ever recorded.

Meanwhile, I have stated evidence to the contrary. People have always found the pixies catalog quite poppy and singable (your words, not mine), as you see people singing along with their songs at every show. And it is no coincidence that probably half of the fans in the shows are girls/women. In fact, that is actually what made many people not like them as they weren't abrasive enough. Ex, My bloddy valentine, sonic youth.

I am not saying you don't like the new songs either. I don't think anyone suggested that. But your comments about the new songs are totally invalid.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Sprite

quote:

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Originally posted by picpic

Uhhh.. Pixies have tons of classic rock songs with only a few chords and standard time signatures... vast majority of their catalog...

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1. Frank Black has a reputation for using unconventional chording in some songs.

But hey, better men than me have noticed it.

"When I heard the new Pixies record [Trompe Le Monde] I was kind of jealous. In its first four minutes the record lays out more ideas than some bands do in their careers. Pixies records are a big challenge. You've really got to dig in. a 6/8 break with a walkie-talkie? Critics might hone in on that, but I'm not sure if everyone gets it. And there's this great turn, a phrase, it's kind of like the "Popcorn" break, it just comes along at a perfect time." (Bob Mould in Musician)

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quote:

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Originally posted by Sprite

Is that Hollande behind her?

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quote:

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Originally posted by picpic

quote:

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Originally posted by Sprite

quote:

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Originally posted by picpic

Uhhh.. Pixies have tons of classic rock songs with only a few chords and standard time signatures... vast majority of their catalog...

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1. Frank Black has a reputation for using unconventional chording in some songs.

But hey, better men than me have noticed it.

"When I heard the new Pixies record [Trompe Le Monde] I was kind of jealous. In its first four minutes the record lays out more ideas than some bands do in their careers. Pixies records are a big challenge. You've really got to dig in. a 6/8 break with a walkie-talkie? Critics might hone in on that, but I'm not sure if everyone gets it. And there's this great turn, a phrase, it's kind of like the "Popcorn" break, it just comes along at a perfect time." (Bob Mould in Musician)

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Where did I said otherwise ? BF use strange time signature on many songs (sometimes only parts of, which is what makes them special, actually).

Just said that 4 chords (kind of) standard rock tunes represented the majority of their catalog. Which is a fact... (like almost every rock band btw...)

___
"Service Unavailable"

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quote:

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Originally posted by The Champ

For the last time, you have not stated any objective difference between the new songs, and the old. Not one.

You said ALL of the manic delivery is gone. This is factually inaccurate, as blue eyed hex clearly demonstrates, as does What Goes Boom. They have released 9 songs, two of them are heavy. I guess you consider 22% to be 0.

There are definite gender differences in musical taste. I am surprised you haven't noticed that men gravitate on average towards heavier, less poppy music then women. To dismiss that is very, very dense. One of the reason there are so many women at Pixies shows is because of the blatant pop element which has always been there. I think you are the only person who never noticed that. Ignorance is, well, ignorance.

Sorry to break it to you, but they aren't playing Pixies in NA on traditional radio stations the way they are playing their contemporaries (that you seem so eager to compare their new sound to for some reason ex. "Streamlined"). If you don't realize the argument is based upon times played vs. other bands of similar levels of popularity, you are just making yourself look ridiculous. And even more desperate.

Your biggest failure in what you have written is that you have not once backed up anything you have said. As seen by this gem.

"...the touchstones are more rooted in popular music, britpop, classic rock. the songs are far more digestible in melody and structure-- clear cut verses, choruses and bridges."

That is simply ignorant of everything the pixies have done in the past. They have always had clear cut choruses "here comes your man, holiday song." They have always had clear cut verses "tame, debaser, wave of mutilation." They have always had clear cut bridges "Bird Dreams, Gouge away, Nimrods son." Have you even been listening at all? As I said; FB was heavily influenced by Boddy Holly, who could be the most influential Pop Rock pioneer of all time. FB has made use used his song templates, and other artists like him time and time again. Mostly traditional arrangements.

"The new songs are much more conventionally presented and arranged."
Please prove it using examples, because you failed at your earlier attempt. Here are some examples of "more conventionally presented" pixies songs for you. Veloria, Allsion, Here comes your man, Winter long, Ana, Cecilia Ann, Letter to Memphis, Wave of Mutilation, Where Is My Mind. The list goes on. They are all comparable to the new songs, and especially in their arrangements. It is not a new thing.

As for your question. The songs are different from their earlier works, obviously. But they are not using any new elements that weren't already in use in their earlier work. Last time I checked, it was the same three dudes cranking this stuff out. Their signatures on these songs are like finger prints. Unmistakable. You can't miss them if you actually know what to look for. The songs are more mellow, on average, but that isn't new. I am thinking you might be new to this.

Basically, if the Pixies made a traditional country music album, it would still sound like Pixies. Think about it.

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quote:

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Originally posted by IBreed

quote:

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Originally posted by The Champ

For the last time, you have not stated any objective difference between the new songs, and the old. Not one.

You said ALL of the manic delivery is gone. This is factually inaccurate, as blue eyed hex clearly demonstrates, as does What Goes Boom. They have released 9 songs, two of them are heavy. I guess you consider 22% to be 0.

There are definite gender differences in musical taste. I am surprised you haven't noticed that men gravitate on average towards heavier, less poppy music then women. To dismiss that is very, very dense. One of the reason there are so many women at Pixies shows is because of the blatant pop element which has always been there. I think you are the only person who never noticed that. Ignorance is, well, ignorance.

Sorry to break it to you, but they aren't playing Pixies in NA on traditional radio stations the way they are playing their contemporaries (that you seem so eager to compare their new sound to for some reason ex. "Streamlined"). If you don't realize the argument is based upon times played vs. other bands of similar levels of popularity, you are just making yourself look ridiculous. And even more desperate.

Your biggest failure in what you have written is that you have not once backed up anything you have said. As seen by this gem.

"...the touchstones are more rooted in popular music, britpop, classic rock. the songs are far more digestible in melody and structure-- clear cut verses, choruses and bridges."

That is simply ignorant of everything the pixies have done in the past. They have always had clear cut choruses "here comes your man, holiday song." They have always had clear cut verses "tame, debaser, wave of mutilation." They have always had clear cut bridges "Bird Dreams, Gouge away, Nimrods son." Have you even been listening at all? As I said; FB was heavily influenced by Boddy Holly, who could be the most influential Pop Rock pioneer of all time. FB has made use used his song templates, and other artists like him time and time again. Mostly traditional arrangements.

"The new songs are much more conventionally presented and arranged."
Please prove it using examples, because you failed at your earlier attempt. Here are some examples of "more conventionally presented" pixies songs for you. Veloria, Allsion, Here comes your man, Winter long, Ana, Cecilia Ann, Letter to Memphis, Wave of Mutilation, Where Is My Mind. The list goes on. They are all comparable to the new songs, and especially in their arrangements. It is not a new thing.

As for your question. The songs are different from their earlier works, obviously. But they are not using any new elements that weren't already in use in their earlier work. Last time I checked, it was the same three dudes cranking this stuff out. Their signatures on these songs are like finger prints. Unmistakable. You can't miss them if you actually know what to look for. The songs are more mellow, on average, but that isn't new. I am thinking you might be new to this.

Basically, if the Pixies made a traditional country music album, it would still sound like Pixies. Think about it.

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Champ, surely you see the hilarious hypocrisy in your own post.

On one hand you're stating I either have not, or can not, objectively prove the songs have been streamlined. On the other, you're telling me there are "so many women at Pixies shows" (1) because of the band's pop sensibilities (2). This is some straight up stupid shit.

Further, you're again ignoring points I've made in service of your increasingly redundant rants. Discussing music is why I'm here, but I'm not going to keep rewording the same ideas in the hopes you'll eventually start reading. Here's where I'll leave it for at least the third time:

YES, THE BAND HAS RELEASED MORE TRADITIONAL SONGS, BUT NEVER WITH THE CONSISTENCY OF EP1 and 2.

Songs I agree with you on to an extent: Velouria, Here Comes Your Man, Dig For Fire, Where Is My Mind, Letter, but the bulk of the Pixies catalogue are songs outside of the purview of the mainstream listener (even with their current popularity), and are corrupted through things like structure, screaming, discordance, lyrical subject matter, whatever. The majority of the songs you listed don't make sense. Ana starts off with a guitar solo over its verse/chorus (the latter of which barely exists) Cecillia Ann is an instrumental. Alison Is like three verses and an extended tag. Jesus Christ man, Winterlong is Neil Young. I'm not even sure why this is an argument. You're hung up on one facet of the discussion in place of everything else I've offered.

To end with the tone you've insisted on; if you can't hear the difference, "ignorance is, well, ignorance".

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quote:

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Originally posted by The Champ

quote:

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Originally posted by IBreed

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Champ

For the last time, you have not stated any objective difference between the new songs, and the old. Not one.

You said ALL of the manic delivery is gone. This is factually inaccurate, as blue eyed hex clearly demonstrates, as does What Goes Boom. They have released 9 songs, two of them are heavy. I guess you consider 22% to be 0.

There are definite gender differences in musical taste. I am surprised you haven't noticed that men gravitate on average towards heavier, less poppy music then women. To dismiss that is very, very dense. One of the reason there are so many women at Pixies shows is because of the blatant pop element which has always been there. I think you are the only person who never noticed that. Ignorance is, well, ignorance.

Sorry to break it to you, but they aren't playing Pixies in NA on traditional radio stations the way they are playing their contemporaries (that you seem so eager to compare their new sound to for some reason ex. "Streamlined"). If you don't realize the argument is based upon times played vs. other bands of similar levels of popularity, you are just making yourself look ridiculous. And even more desperate.

Your biggest failure in what you have written is that you have not once backed up anything you have said. As seen by this gem.

"...the touchstones are more rooted in popular music, britpop, classic rock. the songs are far more digestible in melody and structure-- clear cut verses, choruses and bridges."

That is simply ignorant of everything the pixies have done in the past. They have always had clear cut choruses "here comes your man, holiday song." They have always had clear cut verses "tame, debaser, wave of mutilation." They have always had clear cut bridges "Bird Dreams, Gouge away, Nimrods son." Have you even been listening at all? As I said; FB was heavily influenced by Boddy Holly, who could be the most influential Pop Rock pioneer of all time. FB has made use used his song templates, and other artists like him time and time again. Mostly traditional arrangements.

"The new songs are much more conventionally presented and arranged."
Please prove it using examples, because you failed at your earlier attempt. Here are some examples of "more conventionally presented" pixies songs for you. Veloria, Allsion, Here comes your man, Winter long, Ana, Cecilia Ann, Letter to Memphis, Wave of Mutilation, Where Is My Mind. The list goes on. They are all comparable to the new songs, and especially in their arrangements. It is not a new thing.

As for your question. The songs are different from their earlier works, obviously. But they are not using any new elements that weren't already in use in their earlier work. Last time I checked, it was the same three dudes cranking this stuff out. Their signatures on these songs are like finger prints. Unmistakable. You can't miss them if you actually know what to look for. The songs are more mellow, on average, but that isn't new. I am thinking you might be new to this.

Basically, if the Pixies made a traditional country music album, it would still sound like Pixies. Think about it.

---

Champ, surely you see the hilarious hypocrisy in your own post.

On one hand you're stating I either have not, or can not, objectively prove the songs have been streamlined. On the other, you're telling me there are "so many women at Pixies shows" (1) because of the band's pop sensibilities (2). This is some straight up stupid shit.

Further, you're again ignoring points I've made in service of your increasingly redundant rants. Discussing music is why I'm here, but I'm not going to keep rewording the same ideas in the hopes you'll eventually start reading. Here's where I'll leave it for at least the third time:

YES, THE BAND HAS RELEASED MORE TRADITIONAL SONGS, BUT NEVER WITH THE CONSISTENCY OF EP1 and 2.

Songs I agree with you on to an extent: Velouria, Here Comes Your Man, Dig For Fire, Where Is My Mind, Letter, but the bulk of the Pixies catalogue are songs outside of the purview of the mainstream listener (even with their current popularity), and are corrupted through things like structure, screaming, discordance, lyrical subject matter, whatever. The majority of the songs you listed don't make sense. Ana starts off with a guitar solo over its verse/chorus (the latter of which barely exists) Cecillia Ann is an instrumental. Alison Is like three verses and an extended tag. Jesus Christ man, Winterlong is Neil Young. I'm not even sure why this is an argument. You're hung up on one facet of the discussion in place of everything else I've offered.

To end with the tone you've insisted on; if you can't hear the difference, "ignorance is, well, ignorance".

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You have offered nothing else of any merit.

Your whole argument is that the songs are fundamentally different in that they are not structured as they used to be, and that they aren't as intense. This is flat out wrong, as I showed you. You have not proven any difference at all. Failing grade for your weak thesis. Shameful.

Also, if you haven't noticed the gender differences in music, then you probably live in cave. Go to a Metallica or Sound Garden show and tell me the genders are evenly distributed as they are at a pixies gig. Oh well.

BTW, you are full of shit.

Posted by Ibreed

"there's a lot of weird generalities and gross hyperbole in your post, but the button point is right on. the more i sit with EP1 the more i dislike it and what it represents. that hesitancy. it's a half measure. the want to release new music, tour and yet still avoid having to go up against their older material/legacy (even though that's absolutely impossible). how it's arbitrarily carved up to suit their promotional needs. they landed with a sputtering thump when skepticism was at an all time high... given the songs in their 2013 repertoire, it's almost unforgivable. each previous pixies release was so cohesive, so representative of a shift, a new era. this is just a smattering of shit thrown against the wall to see what sticks. indie cindy and what goes boom are great fun, but half a release does not a classic make... and the sonsofguns had it in them to put out something really strong- a statement of intent. forget "EP1". jesus. none of this comes across as a bold move for the songs and band to be judged on their own merits- presentation and titles be damned- it comes across as a passionless shrug to keep the money maker alive. shouldn't this thing be getting better in time, not worse?

where the fuck is classic masher and greens & blues. a year away, likely. when they announce their canadian casino tour."

Sure sounds like you love the new songs.
I rest my case, again.

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Originally posted by Sprite

I give up. Hopefully when I wake up there will be a new set list waiting for me.

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Originally posted by IBreed

Dude, what is up with your brain. You'll notice I'm discussing two different ideas there: the songwriting and the release methods.

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