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sdon
= Cult of Ray =

France
524 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2014 :  07:52:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Peter, seriously...
Andro Queen is so far from any Pixies sound.
It sounds like one of those remixes on the Frank Blacj Francis double album (not many are actually listenable)
Bill is right : this excellent ballad has become tasteless and not a single member seems to flourish in this song, they're all glued and uninspired. It would have sounded brilliant with an Ana like production, or even Navajo Know, ie with more air

--
"Aristophanes! (gong sounds)"
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<

Netherlands
5174 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2014 :  08:09:43  Show Profile  Click to see billgoodman's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
Well actually, I hear a lot of NonStopErotik in AndroQueen's production. For me there are very obvious links to these songs and Franks career. And Gil's too. Just compare the production on Surfer Blood's last (and excellent) record. Many of those vocals sound a bit to polished too. The guitars are limited to the max.

And the whole "we were out in space"-story is nice, but it's of course impossible to do that. Forget what you have learned, experienced and made the last twenty years. It's a great way to let a band lose their cold feet. Very clever move by Gil.

Btw, I'm not saying that Pixies SHOULD sound like the Catholics, but that I think this particular song COULD have been better with a more stripped down arrangement and production. It's very brave to try something new and that's what I like about AndroQueen and Another Toe. However, that doesn't make me a happy listener. In theory I like it, but when I turn up the stereo I think more classic Pixies (some would say Pixies by numbers) tunes like What Goes Boom are way better.

I enjoyed reading your post. Thanks.

---------------------------
BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<

Netherlands
5174 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2014 :  08:11:52  Show Profile  Click to see billgoodman's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
My post was a reaction to Peter's. Thanks for agreeing with me, Sdon.

Magedelena sounds like the songs you mention, but totally different. That's what a 2013/2014 Pixies record should sound like. At least to me. Great new fresh Bossanova/Trompe-sound!


---------------------------
BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
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natenate101
= Cult of Ray =

USA
674 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2014 :  08:23:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Andro Queen is far from tasteless. Don't be silly.
The song is what it is, no amount of,"It would've been cool if it was produced like this...." is gonna change it. Some people like it, some don't. I think it's a different look for the band and that's fine because the song itself is enjoyable and has repeat listening value.

This is another example of the new songs really splitting opinion. It's interesting to see the various reactions to the same song.

Edited by - natenate101 on 01/16/2014 08:27:04
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peter radiator
= Cult of Ray =

USA
521 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2014 :  08:24:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
sdon,

Perhaps I did not explain myself well in my last post.

I was not saying that the production on "Andro Queen" sounds exactly like earlier Pixies records.

What I was attempting to posit is that it is not hard at all for me to imagine that the production style used on that track and others of the new batch of songs is in fact a logical progression from the earlier Pixies records -- especially if such a progression occurred on an alternate timeline which does not include the existence of FBF's solo recordings and records made with other backing bands -- AND taking into consideration the scope and style of the work that Gil Norton has done in the intervening years.

I was also suggesting that had a production (or, rather, "anti-production") sound been used on the new Pixies material, as has been heard on some of the tracks which were referenced earlier in this thread, that it would have seemed regressive and underwhelming to many fans, and only contributed to the incorrect notion that Pixies v.2.0 is not a true "band" collaboration, but merely an extension of FBF's lengthy "solo" career, post v.1.0.


I honestly think the production on "Andro Queen" sounds nothing like the FrankBlackFrancis CD set, and only shares a superficial sense of "sonic modernity" with those remixes.

But that's just me.

"Andro Queen," like the other new tracks, is SHINY, SLICK and filled with stacks and stacks of tracks which are not always easily discernible among the din.

With headphones, a dark room and time on one's hands, one can (if one so desires) ponder layers and layers of submerged instruments, backing vocals, screams and other aural ephemera that combine to form a dense and cluttered whole that many may simply find claustrophobic and twice-baked.

That's a totally valid response.

I don't love love love every single aspect of these recordings, but then again I don't love love love every single aspect of earlier Pixies material.

I just plain DIG IT, then and now.

Hopes this makes more sense, although we may simply disagree. :)




~ Peter Radiator

"Real music is out there and real people are making it." ~ Webb Wilder
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peter radiator
= Cult of Ray =

USA
521 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2014 :  08:49:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I appreciate the conversation, Bill Goodman. :)



~ Peter Radiator

"Real music is out there and real people are making it." ~ Webb Wilder
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sdon
= Cult of Ray =

France
524 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2014 :  09:08:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I regret this production on Andro Queen. Nothing is gonna change the song like nate said. But nothing will prevent me from thinking I would have liked more another version. I agree Peter that this kind of production could have been a natural evolution from Trompe. But just one direction among many possible ones. Not the one I prefer. Bagboy is another evolution. Magdalena and Snakes also...
I agree also with the interest one may find in peeling the sonic onion layers. This works well for me in some songs, just not this one. It´s all made rather artificial, and above all too narrative, figurative, not enough stuckist :) I usually don't like when form and meaning are too explicit. What´s the point of writing a song about some alien being beyond the rings of Saturn, and then just dressing it with sci-fi sounds, which were fun and novel on Bossanova but now are a bit cliché to my ears? And I also think I remember Joey and/or Dave saying that Gil made them change their initial line or style of playing on this song. Maybe the demos out there might prove this point one day : not only Gil's production but also direction was detrimental (to me, once again, but I' m sure I'm not alone)


--
"Aristophanes! (gong sounds)"

Edited by - sdon on 01/16/2014 09:10:18
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<

Netherlands
5174 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2014 :  09:09:38  Show Profile  Click to see billgoodman's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by natenate101

Andro Queen is far from tasteless. Don't be silly.



Hope you were not refering to my post, because I would never be that silly!

---------------------------
BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
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sdon
= Cult of Ray =

France
524 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2014 :  09:18:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You were referring to the snare as tasteless, I was extending it to the whole track. ok, it's silly, not tasteless. But rather bad taste.
Songs have intrinsic personalities (I like to think). Some arrangements work, because they reinforce this nature or sometimes contradict it cleverly. But on "EP1 Andro Queen", arrangement and production sound silly if not tasteless. Probably BF is not attached enough to controlling the audio aspects of his work. Kim D was more involved, and could have prevented this in some way. But it's not the place for such a debate. I'm ready to move on.

--
"Aristophanes! (gong sounds)"
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fumanbru
* Dog in the Sand *

Canada
1452 Posts

Posted - 10/30/2014 :  02:41:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
so i was going for my morning jog this morning and "llano del rio comes on...

"...Going out to Llano
Going out to look for Aldous Huxley
There between the power lines
And the purple flowers of mescaline

If you really want to
You can practice esperanto
But in the land of pronto
The wind it tastes like gasoline..."


i had no idea of the esperanto line!! and i've been listening to this album for 14 years!

that's it!

have a super day everyone!




"I joined the Cult of Frank/ cause I'm a real go-getter!"...long live snitz!!
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Bedbug
- FB Fan -

215 Posts

Posted - 09/13/2016 :  07:06:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Man I've been loving Andro Queen lately. Glad to find this thread (uhoh, it mentions compression), and I agree with what a lot of people are saying in it.

Peter Radiator (if you're still out there), you say above that there are Frank Black songs and there are Pixies songs and never the train (twain?) shall meet. Do you still feel that way? Because I thought in one of the more current threads you were saying something different. Not trying to argue or "get you," just genuinely interested in your opinion. Thanks
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McDutchie
- FB Fan -

Netherlands
206 Posts

Posted - 09/13/2016 :  09:04:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
In fact the twain have met plenty of times, but only at Frank Black solo and Catholics shows.
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peter radiator
= Cult of Ray =

USA
521 Posts

Posted - 09/13/2016 :  10:34:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bedbug,

I have certainly modified my views on FBF's songwriting output since this earlier thread, based on my current beliefs regarding how the man himself appears to view his efforts.

This current perspective of mine may be misguided, but it makes more sense to me these days.



--

"Real music is out there and real people are making it." ~ Webb Wilder
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Bedbug
- FB Fan -

215 Posts

Posted - 09/13/2016 :  10:59:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Peter,

Thanks for the response.

Certainly my own attempts to understand him and his music have been in flux over the years.

I remember an interview with him back around TOTY or CoR, and the interviewer referred to him as BF, and he was corrected, "No, it's FB."

I wonder what that means to him.

Why release the orangelo album under FB and then Bluefinger under BF? Is Bluefinger more of a Pixies related piece of work because the name on the cover is the same name that's on the liner notes in Surfer Rosa?

I'm comfortable in my own mind thinking of everything he's ever done as "CT and the whoevers." It ultimately makes me think less of "the Pixies" and more of "that guy," but that's just my own attempt at analysis.

Anyways, Andro Queen has really been doing it for me lately. Would love to hear an acoustic version or something stripped down, but this super produced / compressed version is nicely spacious for me right now.
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sdon
= Cult of Ray =

France
524 Posts

Posted - 09/13/2016 :  12:30:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bedbug
Here is a stripped down version of Andro Queen
http://youtu.be/I7hyNoKPdsk
With Jeremy Dubs, prior to Indie Cindy recording

I think there is also a Pixies acoustic version (at a radio show) post-release, but I prefer this early version without David's military drumming

--
"Aristophanes! (gong sounds)"
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picpic
* Dog in the Sand *

Belgium
1065 Posts

Posted - 09/13/2016 :  18:08:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I like Andro Queen.

___
"Service Unavailable"
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hammerhands
* Dog in the Sand *

Canada
1495 Posts

Posted - 09/14/2016 :  02:09:50  Show Profile  Visit hammerhands's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I recall the In Heaven/Andro Queen from The iTunes Festival was fantastic.
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Bedbug
- FB Fan -

215 Posts

Posted - 09/14/2016 :  02:22:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sdon

Thank you for that stripped down version of AQ. I had forgotten about that one.

Man that video makes me long for his solo shows. The atmosphere, the banter, the not knowing what songs you would here. Such an awesome experience. Haven't been to one since '10 I believe.
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Stevio10
= Cult of Ray =

United Kingdom
618 Posts

Posted - 09/14/2016 :  02:48:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Bedbug



I remember an interview with him back around TOTY or CoR, and the interviewer referred to him as BF, and he was corrected, "No, it's FB."

I wonder what that means to him.

Why release the orangelo album under FB and then Bluefinger under BF? Is Bluefinger more of a Pixies related piece of work because the name on the cover is the same name that's on the liner notes in Surfer Rosa?

I'm comfortable in my own mind thinking of everything he's ever done as "CT and the whoevers." It ultimately makes me think less of "the Pixies" and more of "that guy," but that's just my own attempt at analysis.



I recall reading about how Warren Zevon commented on the name Black Francis and said he should really change his name to Frank Black.

I don't recall the exact circumstances but word got back to CT and it stuck.

The inspiration behind Bluefinger, Herman Brood, was the reason CT 'rediscovered' his Black Francis.

I recall BF mentioning the Black Francis moniker allows him more creative licence with his material which was another reason behind the change.

Whether that means he felt restricted by his own expectations of a Frank Black record or the expectations of the Frank Black fan base is unknown, but certainly it allowed him to explore new territory.

FM/RM to Bluefinger via Christmass is quite a shift in tempo and energy.
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Bedbug
- FB Fan -

215 Posts

Posted - 09/14/2016 :  07:12:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks Stevio10. I'll have to look for that interview re: Zevon.

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peter radiator
= Cult of Ray =

USA
521 Posts

Posted - 09/14/2016 :  07:29:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Re: the shifting professional monikers...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snake#Molting

--

"Real music is out there and real people are making it." ~ Webb Wilder
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sdon
= Cult of Ray =

France
524 Posts

Posted - 09/14/2016 :  07:34:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Didn't he partially revert to BF for Christmass, before Bluefinger?

--
"Aristophanes! (gong sounds)"
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Bedbug
- FB Fan -

215 Posts

Posted - 09/14/2016 :  07:40:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
And Mrs. John Murphy molted as well didn't she?
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peter radiator
= Cult of Ray =

USA
521 Posts

Posted - 09/14/2016 :  08:06:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Bedbug

And Mrs. John Murphy molted as well didn't she?



Sort of.

But FBF is actually a Snake.

--

"Real music is out there and real people are making it." ~ Webb Wilder
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Stevio10
= Cult of Ray =

United Kingdom
618 Posts

Posted - 09/14/2016 :  09:15:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Found an old interview that mentions both moniker changes, those old interviews are really something

http://www.hotpress.com/Black-Francis/music/interviews/Back-To-Black/4497399.html

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Bedbug
- FB Fan -

215 Posts

Posted - 09/14/2016 :  09:49:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
that is a great interview Stevio10. Thanks for linking.

nevertheless, I find the snake analogy a bit reductive. monkeys can climb trees and see what's ahead but snakes can't?
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hammerhands
* Dog in the Sand *

Canada
1495 Posts

Posted - 09/14/2016 :  11:00:05  Show Profile  Visit hammerhands's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Who didn't want to be in his band?
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peter radiator
= Cult of Ray =

USA
521 Posts

Posted - 09/14/2016 :  19:13:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think there were a couple of times ages ago when FBF made reference in interviews to some or all of the Catholics basically getting tired of the whole live-to-2-track ethos, and of playing mostly small clubs and the occasional festival, without label tour support or a full road crew.

It would appear some or all of the members just lost interest in that lifestyle and lack of serious income, and either wanted the group to reach for something different or (in some regard) "higher" that FBF was not into at that moment, or simply felt the time had come to leave.

They HAD to know how insanely baddass a combo they were, and that knowledge had to have made their toiling in relative obscurity (and in the omnipresent shadow of the long-gone Pixies) that much more hard to weather.


--

"Real music is out there and real people are making it." ~ Webb Wilder

Edited by - peter radiator on 09/14/2016 19:14:22
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Sam
= Cult of Ray =

Ireland
482 Posts

Posted - 09/14/2016 :  23:54:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My 2 cents is I love Andro Queen. The drumming, the tempo, the lyrics, the singing. All great.
Really different but very cool. I put it in the Havaline, ANA style Pixies slow, dreamy beautiful songs.

That In Heaven \ AQ segue was awesome too.

However and its kind of irrelevant but the Coachella version of In Heaven is so good. I think the best one yet. Joey's guitar sounds excellent with Kim's bass. They should do that again.
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picpic
* Dog in the Sand *

Belgium
1065 Posts

Posted - 09/15/2016 :  04:41:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Anyone noticed the whizzing sound after the "she's off in a silver rocket" lyrics.

Good to test your hearing sensibility on high frequencies. If you're not hearing it, you're probably getting old.

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sdon
= Cult of Ray =

France
524 Posts

Posted - 09/15/2016 :  06:07:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Sam

My 2 cents is I love Andro Queen. The drumming, the tempo, the lyrics, the singing. All great.
Really different but very cool. I put it in the Havaline, ANA style Pixies slow, dreamy beautiful songs.

That In Heaven \ AQ segue was awesome too.

However and its kind of irrelevant but the Coachella version of In Heaven is so good. I think the best one yet. Joey's guitar sounds excellent with Kim's bass. They should do that again.



In Heaven 1.0 was one of my favourite tracks, up there with Tame and Gouge Away
When Kim started to sing the mellow, fuzzy version of In Heaven 2.0, I lost a lot of interest in this song. Even worse on the pre-HC tours, when it became not much more than setlist parenthesis mechanically announcing Andro Queen

Sorry for being grumpy sdon today

--
"Aristophanes! (gong sounds)"

Edited by - sdon on 09/15/2016 06:08:55
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Bedbug
- FB Fan -

215 Posts

Posted - 09/15/2016 :  07:54:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The only thing In Heaven (1.0, 2.0, 3.0) ever does for me is remind me that David Lynch is the greatest genius working in film.
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Bedbug
- FB Fan -

215 Posts

Posted - 09/15/2016 :  07:56:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
And actually I think AQ is better without the Lynchian intro
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sdon
= Cult of Ray =

France
524 Posts

Posted - 09/15/2016 :  08:14:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Agree with both assertions Bedbug : AQ doesn't need any "moody" intro
And I miss Lynch so much since Inland Empire

--
"Aristophanes! (gong sounds)"
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Stevio10
= Cult of Ray =

United Kingdom
618 Posts

Posted - 09/15/2016 :  08:32:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You'll be in for a treat when Twin Peaks returns soon!
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