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oldmandavid
- FB Fan -
USA
27 Posts |
 Posted - 11/01/2011 : 12:01:10
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 Am I the only one that has been more than a little disappointed with Frank's recent releases, Grand Duchy and solo? I know that saying this is near sacrilege, but I have to be honest about it. I don’t want to be disrespectful, because Frank is still my all time favorite artist, but something has changed. I am no casual fan. I am one of the Uber fans. I mean the few times I’ve met Charles,I nearly shit my panty and was speechless. It’s kinda sad, because I used to so look forward to his record releases with a crazy anticipation, and now, if I even buy the new Grand Duchy album coming out, it will be more out of obligation.
I joke with my girlfriend that Violet is like Yoko breaking up the Beatles. I mean, I don’t really know the whole timeline with her and Charles hooking up, and if there’s anything really there, but it seems a little like there was consistent good music his entire life, even when he was married to Jean Marie, and then still when they broke….but after Violet and after Fast Man Raider Man, things began to change. There was still enough Frank left in BlueFinger and Seven Fingers to make them great, but nonstop erotic was a bust for me. And don’t get me started on Grand Duchy. Her electronic/synth influence is written all over these.
It’s been noted before that an artist’s pain is what keeps them producing good art. It seems as though Violet makes Charles truly happy, and I am glad for that, because if anyone deserves happiness, it’s him. After all the happiness he’s brought his fans. It just stinks that his happiness seems to conversely affect his art, and then I don’t have my refuge and inspiration in his music. I am hoping that the new Reid Paley team up will be a breath of fresh air and more reminiscent of the Nashville or Catholics era.
I invite your thoughts, but to those who choose to respond, please know that I am not inviting a tongue lashing, I am just being sincere.
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Jose Jones
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1758 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2011 : 15:26:27
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his solo releases are as good as ever, in my opinion. golem, NSE, bluefinger, svn fngrs. all fantastic. not really into grand duchy. haven't checked out paley&francis yet.
the only difference is that he has a huge family now. i only have 1 kid and it greatly limits what you can do with your time (videogames...world tours...). i love the solo releases, i just wish i had shows to go to (with full bands) and bootlegs to listen to. new songs live. fuck.
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they were the heroes of old, men of renown. |
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Discoking
* Dog in the Sand *
Belgium
1120 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2011 : 23:36:44
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i think it's normal that one doesn't always like everything. but as an über-fan, the disappointment will be much greater.
i've seen fans who - after holding on for a couple of albums they didn't really like - decided that the changes their favourite bands were going through, were no longer their cup of tea, and the term disappointment was an understatement. it was grief.
i don't agree with the violet/happiness theory. it's full of assumptions and i think it's unfair. and that it doesn't really matter in the first place.
 it's educational |
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treetime
- FB Fan -
USA
217 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2011 : 09:06:05
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| This to shall pass. This happened to me with the first Catholics' release. I couldn't get into it. But everything prior to it are amongst my all time favorite albums. Since then though, I have been very much been into Black Letter Days, Fastman Raiderman, and Bluefinger. |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2011 : 15:29:52
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Thomas
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1615 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2011 : 16:36:37
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I haven't purchased anything since Bluefinger. I'm hoping he is saving the great stuff for a Pixies release. Keep dreaming.
"Our Love is Rice and Beans and Horses Lard" |
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Arm Arm Arm
* Dog in the Sand *
1037 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2011 : 18:27:04
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The last solo release I've listened to was Bluefinger, which has some songs I love, some that are good and others I've skipped over. Fasterman, from what I've heard, doesn't really do anything for me and I haven't heard any of the other albums with one exception. While I love the Pixies, Catholics and the pre-Catholic solo albums, I just haven't felt like purchasing anything lately. I'm not sure why, though with Grand Duchy, I think the little bit I viewed online didn't appeal to me.
Maybe I just need a break from his recent work or maybe my disappointment with Honeycomb, Show Me Your Tears and Fasterman has had an effect on me. Recently, I gave Show Me Your Tears another listen and enjoyed it more than before, so...I'm sure I'll eventually check out his other albums; his music usually takes time to appreciate. I just haven't felt like it lately, don't know why.
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The Maharal
= Cult of Ray =
996 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2011 : 00:22:28
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| ^ Listen to The Golem. There are some sublime tracks on that and the album encapsulates just about every style he's done (minus the boisterous reggae). |
Edited by - The Maharal on 11/03/2011 00:28:30 |
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Jose Jones
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1758 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2011 : 02:18:17
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NSE is my favorite since SMYT. the golem's great. SVN FNGRS is short and really really good. i think the fact that these songs aren't being toured to death (to life?) and being drilled into our heads each night is doing the albums a disservice. you might get the impression that frank doesn't like the songs enough to play them live.
i try not to get sucked in by that. i listen to this stuff alongside the classics and it feels just as vital as ever.
i really wish he'd nail down a consistent line-up of players. at least carter's a constant.
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they were the heroes of old, men of renown. |
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Discoking
* Dog in the Sand *
Belgium
1120 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2011 : 03:39:21
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weren't the svn fngrs songs played live quite often?
it's educational |
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The Maharal
= Cult of Ray =
996 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2011 : 05:07:06
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| There were two Bluefinger tours iirc (one of which included most of the Svn Fngrs songs). |
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OLDMANOTY
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
469 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2011 : 12:33:06
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I can relate to the op.
I was utterly blown away by the first two albums. Then, from COR onwards it was a bit love/hate. The Catholics/Nashville era was initally hard to take for me because a lot of it was exactly the sort of music I'd spent my life actively avoiding. I suppose I just kept subscribing because it was Frank Black. Eventually though I ended up loving a lot of that stuff, and it expanded my musical taste.
I still get excited at the prospect of something new. But after many years of albums recorded quickly with no frills, what I'd love would be this:
Just for a change, a Frank Black/Francis album with serious time spent on it, creating a sonic granduer to compliment/encompass the imagination of the man. An album on which every track has been honed to perfection (in an exciting, non sterile way ). Something that sounds like planets colliding....hmm, might have gone too far with that last bit.
Know what I mean, though? |
Edited by - OLDMANOTY on 11/03/2011 12:46:50 |
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Active Duck
~ Abstract Brain ~
United Kingdom
435 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2011 : 14:42:56
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I have mixed feelings. In fact I don't really know what I think about his recent output but I can't deny a lot of the magic has faded for me.
I reckon I came in somewhere after Pistolero was released. A recently developed pixies obsession grew into a frank black obsession and I don't think I stopped to question a single thing until the leaked version of honeycomb. Okay, maybe I skipped a few tracks on Cult of Ray from time to time and with every release I had that momentary first listen worry that he'd lost it, but that was fleeting and every track would reveal themselves to be vital and totally thrilling.
Honeycomb was different. I can totally dig the songs themselves but the delivery just didn't hit me as hard as his previous work. At this point I was still putting in major hours listening to everything Frank Black so despite my reservations Honeycomb still got a lot of play and as a whole my obsession still stood as firm as ever. Then Fastman Raiderman was the first album that didn't have me obsessively listening. Maybe if I'd put the time in I could have appreciated the songs in the same way as I did with Honeycomb but it just didn't generate the desire to make me want to do that. And that's pretty much where I've been ever since. Even the albums that I got excited about (Svn Fngrs, Golem) I haven't been compelled to return to in the obsessive way I had with his earlier releases.
Maybe it's just natural that you can't keep up the same kind of passion for something forever but lately I just feel like some focus was lost with the parting of the catholics. The bluefinger tour and the return to black francis persona (maybe more of a re-imagining than a return actually) just didn't work for me but more than that it was the band he toured with that bothered me. The Pixies, The Catholics, those guys felt like they were forces that helped pull his music into magic shapes but the bluefinger and the nashville era players have felt to me just musicians sharing a stage or a studio. |
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kathryn
~ Selkie Bride ~
Belgium
15320 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2011 : 12:48:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Active Duck
I have mixed feelings. In fact I don't really know what I think about his recent output but I can't deny a lot of the magic has faded for me.
... some focus was lost with the parting of the catholics. The bluefinger tour and the return to black francis persona (maybe more of a re-imagining than a return actually) just didn't work for me but more than that it was the band he toured with that bothered me. The Pixies, The Catholics, those guys felt like they were forces that helped pull his music into magic shapes but the bluefinger and the nashville era players have felt to me just musicians sharing a stage or a studio.
That's the perfect way to describe where I'm at with Frank. Brilliantly put. Also kinda depressing.
I remember sitting in a basement listening to Fields of Marigold until I passed out.
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Jose Jones
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1758 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2011 : 12:59:59
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that's my main beef, too. i really want him to have a solid band that tours and shit. it would just make the albums feel more important or something.
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they were the heroes of old, men of renown. |
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johnnyribcage
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1301 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2011 : 10:28:57
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The following is totally my opinion as a serious Charles Thompson fan.
I must concur with the OP, for the most part. For me, the legend was unblemished through Bluefinger. I wasn't quite as jazzed with Svn as everyone else was, but it was still pretty good. Outside of Golem, which was absolutely fantastic in my opinion, everything else since has really let me down.
I say that as a hard core fan who understands the need to live with a new FB album for a few months to hear what is really going on. Most fans will know what I'm talking about. Duchy does absolutely nothing for me. Erotik has a few great moments ( Cinema Star, Rabbits, Six Legged Man, and Tidy Sum). The new duet just sounds odd, and I can't get behind the Tom Waits stylings of Paley (I am nearly as big a Waits fan as FB).
I think you're off base with the Violet comments however, and they are a little rude considering the man himself reads this blog. I would assume any drop off in quality (to my ears anyway - a lot of people love the new stuff), is simply due to age and being more occupied with family life - and good for him.
Anyway, I do indeed hope for some throwback frank in the near future. I would love another Honeycomb or Catholics style album.
Ayerigvlagabriga-Raraaaargh!-Rumbahl-Jumbahl! |
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vilainde
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Niue
7443 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2011 : 11:41:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Jose Jones
that's my main beef, too. i really want him to have a solid band that tours and shit. it would just make the albums feel more important or something.
Yeah you definitely have a point here. There are a bunch of FB songs that I only loved once I got to hear them live (Living On Soul and Shazeb Andleeb come to mind). I find it so weird that he doesn't tour anymore when there's a new record out. I've seen a couple of videos of his recent concerts with Paley, IMO the songs are much better than on the album. Recently I saw a live version of Johnny Barleycorn from some TV show and it really kicked ass. Why he wouldn't do a single concert to promote NSE is beyond me. I could see myself getting crazy hearing Six Legged Man live - instead he hasn't played in France for 4 years. So I'm still buying the records cause I know the songwriting's here, but it really feels he doesn't care much about his solo career anymore.
Denis
Obsidiana Bijoux |
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vilainde
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Niue
7443 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2011 : 11:44:43
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And yeah, the comments about Violet were harsh. I don't care much about Grand Duchy, but I don't think she had much impact on him recording in Nashville with Tiven or deciding to do a 3-year tour playing the same 15 fucking Pixies songs every night.
Denis
Obsidiana Bijoux |
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vilainde
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Niue
7443 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2011 : 11:52:11
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Damn, this thread depressed me. All I'm asking for is a full band European tour!
Denis
Obsidiana Bijoux |
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trobrianders
> Teenager of the Year <
Papua New Guinea
3302 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2011 : 14:25:28
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Seems like he's making all the right moves; pleasing his fans in the majority (Pixies fans young and old) and doing lots of other stuff that's closer to his heart. I don't have a problem with that even though it's not much to my taste. Are you all really dissapointed?
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Ed is the hoo hoo |
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Jose Jones
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1758 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2011 : 16:20:30
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where have you been, trobes? where. have. you. been.
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they were the heroes of old, men of renown. |
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oldmandavid
- FB Fan -
USA
27 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2011 : 00:38:32
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| Look guys, I'm not in any way trying to be rude, or disrespect anybody. I'm simply bringing up a subject that's close to my heart and I can't help but draw certain conclusions based on my life experiences and what little I know of Charles' life. Obviously I don't know the play by play, so I fill in the blanks with hypotheses, or what others may call assumptions. Look, it's just one of those things that you can't say without saying. You know what I mean? It's been on my mind, so I'm saying it. I was curious about others opinions so I brought it up. I could have just said I didn't like recent output, and not given any theories as to where in lies the change,... But that would be sort of pointless to me. I'm curious about what's going on behind the music, ya know? And I don't think for a second that I'm completely off base. But let's be clear, I'm not calling Violet the devil or anything,... I said I was joking when calling we yoko. I'm happy for Charles and his love. Relationships are complex, and lovers always have a strong influence on eachother...that's just he nature of it. I personally dont care for her style of music. I think it's still ok to say that right? So anyways, like I said...I don't think that my op is baseless. Let's take a look shall we?? Black letter days, devils workshop and show me your tears,--breakup with Jean Marie albums.. agreed? Amazing in my opinion. Honeycomb, still lingering Jean Marie (strange goodbye, duh, my life is in storage, and the last bit on the end of sing for joy) There was also the introduction to who we can only assume was Violet (I burn today, atom in my heart, perhaps honeycomb (at the end/slow part), and violet - duh). Then more of Violet in FMRM - in the one of my ruin,... And a little goodbye to Jean perhaps in fast man, it's just not your moment and sad old world. -- I need to interject for a moment and clearly state that I'm not bringing up Jean in order to compare to Violet in any way. That definitely would be rude. I am merely attempting to establish a timeline from the lyric interpretation. -- Now to cHristmas- demon girl- perhaps about Jean? Or maybe no one at all? She's my way- Violet? Kinda a big leap of interpretation, but I think there's a reference to Oregon (where he moved with Violet) in radio lizards- "this is a good state, and I used to hate it, but now it's the greatest". Dont get me wrong seems to be about Violet in all probability. Ok, so at some point during the time period of this relationship transition, the idea comes up to return to the Black Francis moniker, the Bureau is created, and marketing style/relationship to the media and his fans does a 180. Bluefinger, svnfingers, grand duchy and NSE are released. So it seems natural to me to look for some correlation between the output and change in image/persona and his personal life. Obviously it's an assumption that these changes had any thing to do with his new relationship and it's influence, but it seems the most likely link from the point of view of an onlooker. There is definitely a timeline correlation to say the least. |
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oldmandavid
- FB Fan -
USA
27 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2011 : 00:43:25
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| Excuse typos please... |
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Ziggy
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
2463 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2011 : 00:55:42
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It's an interesting discussion about the records. But let's leave his personal life out of it, ok? It's not the business of anybody here.
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oldmandavid
- FB Fan -
USA
27 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2011 : 01:11:19
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| Ok. Ok. If everyone feels that it is an out of bounds subject... Say no more. My lips are sealed on the subject. Though it seems a bit odd, being that I thought that this is what the forum was for. Does nobody else ponder these things? I guess perhaps these are private conversations? Well normally I would discuss such things with my best friend, who is the only person I know personally who "gets" Frank Black, but he passed away last year, so it's sort of my only outlet for these thoughts. |
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Jose Jones
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1758 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2011 : 02:04:22
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first, i don't think his output has degraded in any way. i think HC and FM/RM are lows in his awesome career, but that's just personal taste. like i've said, the only difference is he hasn't toured for the last few releases. that's the only thing that's different than before.
second, your lyrical interpretations may be wrong. "she's my way," for instance, is almost most definitely about a guy gambling on horses. "demon girl"- seems like a pretty straight forward story to me.
anyway, violet HAS changed the man- she's given him a huge family, and anyone with a heart and a kid could understand why he only tours when there's big reward involved (pixies).
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they were the heroes of old, men of renown. |
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oldmandavid
- FB Fan -
USA
27 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2011 : 02:18:33
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I loved honeycomb and FmRM! I've loved everything up until NSE. But i guess maybe it comes down to personal taste. Although I think that johnnyribcage makes an excellent point about having to "live" with a frank black album for a while before discovering its true excellence. I remember when show me your tears came out, I wasn't ready for it at first. I actuall thought he had lost it then, but then it hit me....amazing! Maybe I wasn't ready for such strong counte overtones. But then again, when I first heard a frank record, after being only a pixies fan... It took me years to get into it. I was just a teenage kid, and frank black's solo stuff sounded so so plain. But of course I eventually realized that he was only getting better.
If you haven't gotten into honeycomb or FMRM, then you may just need to hear it a few more times, but I suppose you may say the same thing to me about NSE..... Although I really don't see it, and I'm trying... |
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oldmandavid
- FB Fan -
USA
27 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2011 : 02:20:12
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| --"strong country overtones" |
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Thomas
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1615 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2011 : 03:56:37
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It's hard for me to say I'm disappointment in any recent releases. I've not heard or tried to hear anything since Bluefinger. Maybe a sound bite here and there, but no real listening. I never purchased Honeycomb, but I think it was the first FB songs I ever deleated from my computer after downloading the shared files from this board. I found FM/RM at a used CD shop about a year after its release and it was very hard to get into. I hate Jon Tiven.
Tiven is Yoko not Violet.
"Our Love is Rice and Beans and Horses Lard" |
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vilainde
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Niue
7443 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2011 : 04:15:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Thomas
I hate Jon Tiven.
Tiven is Yoko not Violet.
Awesome! Let's all agree on this!
Denis
Obsidiana Bijoux |
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oddball
- FB Fan -
Germany
242 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2011 : 06:17:30
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I am in the camp that feels Honeycomb and FMRM are two of his best albums to date, and I truly feel Jon Tiven helped make both of these albums sound deep and layered. It seems like no one is stepping up in this forum in defense of Grand Duchy. Has anyone heard the Silver Boys track? I heard a track called "White Out" a few months ago, and wasn't particularly impressed. Maybe it just isn't my cup of tea, though.
Maybe it's time for Frank to bring Schwarma into the world, or any "work" that involves a full band. For all we know, he has written the next three Pixies albums and is just waiting for things to materialize with that band. Things seem to be in a state of flux, and have been for a couple of years now, as far as recording with a regular band goes.
-Oddball |
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onyone
- FB Fan -
Yugoslavia
96 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2011 : 15:57:52
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quote:
Originally posted by johnnyribcage
The following is totally my opinion as a serious Charles Thompson fan.
I must concur with the OP, for the most part. For me, the legend was unblemished through Bluefinger. I wasn't quite as jazzed with Svn as everyone else was, but it was still pretty good. Outside of Golem, which was absolutely fantastic in my opinion, everything else since has really let me down.
I say that as a hard core fan who understands the need to live with a new FB album for a few months to hear what is really going on. Most fans will know what I'm talking about. Duchy does absolutely nothing for me. Erotik has a few great moments ( Cinema Star, Rabbits, Six Legged Man, and Tidy Sum). The new duet just sounds odd, and I can't get behind the Tom Waits stylings of Paley (I am nearly as big a Waits fan as FB).
I think you're off base with the Violet comments however, and they are a little rude considering the man himself reads this blog. I would assume any drop off in quality (to my ears anyway - a lot of people love the new stuff), is simply due to age and being more occupied with family life - and good for him.
Anyway, I do indeed hope for some throwback frank in the near future. I would love another Honeycomb or Catholics style album.
Ayerigvlagabriga-Raraaaargh!-Rumbahl-Jumbahl!
onyone think that make you sound like opinion not good and disagree. I sorry English not good. Don't want to talk bad or insult (how you say?) but say Honeycomb good make sound like retarded man |
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kathryn
~ Selkie Bride ~
Belgium
15320 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2011 : 16:14:37
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floop! Good to see you, man!
I remember sitting in a basement listening to Fields of Marigold until I passed out.
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2011 : 16:47:05
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quote:
Originally posted by vilainde
quote:
Originally posted by Thomas
I hate Jon Tiven.
Tiven is Yoko not Violet.
Awesome! Let's all agree on this!
Denis
Obsidiana Bijoux
I can get behind that (except that it's an insult to Yoko Ono). |
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Arm Arm Arm
* Dog in the Sand *
1037 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2011 : 18:09:54
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For me, the country road journey that Frank took didn't interest me. I tried listening to Honeycomb, knowing full well that most of his work takes time to appreciate, but it just didn't connect. Sa me with Fm/Rm which I barely made it through once, the combination of Nashville and Mr. Black isn't for my palette. Though it's not country, same with Grand Duchy, the idea seemed fun, Frank and Violet making an album but I don't care for the results.
I have no interest in an artist's personal life. I think Frank follows his muse and the increased country stylings are a natural progression, you can see it coming from at least Dog in the Sand.
I think Bluefinger is a great album and I'm excited to one day listen to Non-Stop Erotik. I guess to answer the original question...I was disappointed with Frank's detour into country-influenced music but I think Bluefinger is evidence of him still creating music I enjoy.
As a side note, even if Frank didn't tour, I think it would be good if he had his own local band he did shows with, perhaps even offering a webcast or live recordings for sale...without having to tour, he could possibly go through his discography and perform a lot of songs that have never been played live before. Either that or some kind of Catholics reunion... |
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johnnyribcage
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1301 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2011 : 10:03:36
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quote:
Originally posted by onyone
quote:
Originally posted by johnnyribcage
Anyway, I do indeed hope for some throwback frank in the near future. I would love another Honeycomb or Catholics style album.
Ayerigvlagabriga-Raraaaargh!-Rumbahl-Jumbahl!
onyone think that make you sound like opinion not good and disagree. I sorry English not good. Don't want to talk bad or insult (how you say?) but say Honeycomb good make sound like retarded man
Allow me to suggest that you are fortunate to lack the necessary linguistic skills to fully reveal the extent of your idiocy. I can barely decipher your nonsense, but to come on here and say you do not intend to insult me, then directly proceed to call me "retarded" for stating that I enjoy an album by the artist on who's FAN PAGE we are chatting on, is truly asinine.
As a side note, there are plenty of FB fans who not only really like Honeycomb, but also consider it some of his best and most interesting work. I'm sure you have no idea what the man was singing about, so that might lessen the album's impact in your case.
Ayerigvlagabriga-Raraaaargh!-Rumbahl-Jumbahl! |
Edited by - johnnyribcage on 11/07/2011 14:16:52 |
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Disappointment with recent releases ;-(
