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Brank_Flack
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
910 Posts |
 Posted - 11/11/2009 : 18:08:21
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I feel that this is the album where Black Francis really became Frank Black, with the Cult of Ray as a transition between the two.
Overall, i think it's a more consistent album than CoR, and a less awkward one as it seems like Frank has a better idea of what sound he's going for than he did before. Plus, it doesnt hurt that the album boasts one of the best songs frank has ever writter - All My Ghosts, with Dog Gone being another classic in my opinion.
Also, Frank's singing sounds great on the album, he's really beginning to master his deeper/raspier sound. However, i believe the Catholics had horrible backing vocals, which Frank's great vocal deliveries only emphasize. The backing vocals on I Gotta Move just sound so flat and uninspired - especially the "ooo"'s. While overall the catholics sound great on this album, i must admit that along with the backing vocals, i've found their other main weakness their lead guitar. It just seems really unispired and cheesy to me
As someone who connects artwork with the album - what was frank thinking with the album artwork? Honestly, it has to be some of the worst, if not the worst, artwork by a serious musician that i've ever seen. Does anyone know if it was done jokingly? It just seems cheap to me, and it made me feel like the music was cheap for a while as well. Luckilly, i've been able to distance myself from the artwork recently and as a result i've enjoyed the album much more.
Score: 7.5/10
Favourites: All My Ghosts, Dog Gone
Least Favourite: King and Queen of Siam, Do You Feel Bad About it? (Good tune, corny lyrics)
Underrated: Steak 'N' Sabre, Suffering, I Need Peace
It took me a while to get into Suffering, but i was won over when i saw it acoustic in 2006.
What were the b-sides? The discography section has been down for a while - if i'm not mistaken is living on soul one of them? If so, that song seems like more of an A-side to me than a B-side, though i'm not a fan of the lead guitar.
What do ya'll think?
Past Discussions:
#1 Frank Black http://forum.frankblack.net/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=19773
#3 Cult of Ray (should still be on main page) |
Edited by - Brank_Flack on 11/13/2009 21:31:22 |
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Brank_Flack
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
910 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2009 : 18:29:38
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| I would just like to go back on my anti-catholic lead guitar statement - i believe it's more of an early catholics problem and that by Dog in the Sand the lead guitar had become in sync with the music |
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Scarla O
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
947 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2009 : 22:36:22
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| 'The Man Who Was Too Loud' is a particularly awesome song. |
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Sam
= Cult of Ray =
Ireland
511 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2009 : 03:22:18
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Hi, gotta say i don't agree with you on the lead guitar on this, actually don't agree with you on the backing vocals either. I think it is a matter of taste really. The album was a demo, recorded live to two track with the band essentially jamming and getting the tunes together. That does not make an excuse, i dont think this is a sloppy or rushed record. It is just of a certain style. The guitar from Lyle Workman on stuff like solid gold and King and Queen is pretty heavy, alot of distorsion but i love it. It is a huge departure from COR i feel, and although i love Cult of Ray i really like the dirtier, more raw sound of the brown album.
I albsolutely love I need peace and Suffering. The guitar sound is so raw and heavy. There is a part in I need peace towards the end where the tempo changes and the guitar sounds like a freight train jamming on the brakes. A truly awesome noise where the rythm shifts and i start to wish Lyle Workman stayed with the Catholics. (no disresepect to RG or DP, love them both) The brown album may well not be to everyone's taste but as Frank would explain on the Catholics next album, " i wanna hear that holy ramage, i don't mind a little ear damage, Henry Sloane in my soca soul, i'm not ashamed to say i want rock and roll. ( i know its the next album, but is so very apt for the first Catholics offering.) |
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moonruler
- FB Fan -
USA
195 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2009 : 07:42:18
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I agree with Sam on this. I Need Peace is a great solo and while I really enjoyed Dave Phillips and Rich Gilbert from later Catholic releases, Lyle is the man. And I like the backing vocals on this album as well. A matter of taste I guess.
This album, along with CoR and Pistelero, were all a little disappointing upon my initial listening, but have turned into to three of my faves.
The All My Ghosts single was fantastic with Living on Soul, Humboldt County Massacre and Changing of the Guard Dylan cover. Along with the title song, of course. No tracks to skip on this EP. |
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TAMAL
- FB Fan -
Australia
55 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2009 : 11:28:21
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The first live to two track album! I love the sound of these Catholics albums. Although my faves are Dog In The Sand and Show Me Your Tears, I still think this is a really cool album. The only song I don't get is Suffering.
7.5/10 |
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trobrianders
> Teenager of the Year <
Papua New Guinea
3302 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2009 : 11:45:13
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I didn't like Brown right away. The songs seemed blander than we were used to from The Man. But now Brown's fully lodged in my consciousness, reserve seating. Other songs in my mind nudge each other and say 'Oh look, there's Steak N Sabre', or 'There goes Solid Gold', but they're too shy to go up and say hello.
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Ed is the hoo hoo |
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BLT
> Teenager of the Year <
South Sandwich Islands
4204 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2009 : 12:50:36
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People would do well to learn lead guitar by listening to Lyle's channel on this album.
 "Join the Cult of Quincy M.E. and enter the most fascinating sphere of police work" |
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moonruler
- FB Fan -
USA
195 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2009 : 06:43:56
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| I thought CoR was recorded live to 2-track. |
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matto
= Cult of Ray =
USA
943 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2009 : 06:47:43
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quote:
Originally posted by moonruler
I thought CoR was recorded live to 2-track.
don't think it was... but the liner notes do say "guitar left" and "guitar right"... just a mixing thing I guess... maybe you're thinking of that?
sminki pinki |
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Jose Jones
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1758 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2009 : 15:31:12
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a friend of mine surprised me with this album on vinyl for my birthday yesterday. awesome.
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they were the heroes of old, men of renown. |
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Arm Arm Arm
* Dog in the Sand *
1034 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2009 : 19:08:10
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I didn't like this album for a number of years; after running with Cult, Teenager and Frank Black (all within a week), listening to the first official Catholics album was like stepping into a bog. The tempos dragged, his voice didn't sound as passionate and aside from four, the songs sounded dismally the same.
It wasn't till after Dog in the Sand came out that I went back to FB & the C's and discovered what a good album it is. Highlights: Man who was too loud, suffering, I need peace, six-sixty-six, Solid Gold, Dog Gone, Back To Rome....wow. Pretty much the whole album is awesome. The alphabetical listing (didn't notice it till I read about it on here) worked out perfectly.
And the fast Humbodlt County Massacre on the Livin' On Soul b-side single thing is a great song. |
Edited by - Arm Arm Arm on 11/15/2009 05:14:10 |
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Jose Jones
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1758 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2009 : 05:09:02
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branklin mentioned the backing vocals. i'm fine with them here, but they hurt some pistolero songs. i love McDave, but the squealing on "you're such a wire" and "bad harmony" ruin otherwise nice melodies. in fact, i didn't like "you're such a wire" for a long time, then i realized everything about it except the background vocals is superb.
and lyle's solos on steak and sabre are inventive and really really really... good.
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they were the heroes of old, men of renown. |
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TRANSMARINE
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
2002 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2009 : 08:54:35
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September of 2008 brought me my favorite Frank Black album. At the time was working in an independent CD store and got a copy of it before street date (not that the world was waiting on the edge of their seats for it). This was 4 months after I became obsessed with Pixies and so far had Frank's first three albums. I was walking home completely intrigued with the artwork (yes, on the cheap side, nevertheless endlessly fascinating) and memorizing the bizarre and puzzling song titles. A bit worried about the live-to-2-track idea, I stuck the thing in my CD player in my room. What came out of the speakers instantly spoke to me. It is still, hands down, my favorite Frank Black album. The clarity, the raw power sonically and creatively, the vocal characters Frank creates...nothing has quite matched this album. I love 'em all, but this one...this ONE...knocks my socks off!
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His name is Dalton. He's got a degree in philosophy.
-bRIAN |
Edited by - TRANSMARINE on 11/14/2009 08:56:58 |
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TRANSMARINE
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
2002 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2009 : 06:35:07
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Also got a couple cool singles from this album. The DOG GONE single (with artwork as weird and fantastic as FB&C's artwork) which features a cover of Springsteen's I'M GOING DOWN, DO NOTHING (The Specials!) and the cover of the Del Shannon cover, THE BIG HURT.
Also, the single for I GOTTA MOVE which features the terribly produced but wonderfully crazy HUMBOLDT COUNTY MASSACRE and a 20 minute interview with Frank at a hotel restaurant. The discussion ranges from ALL MY CHILDREN ("Trevor...Trevor...") to worcestershire sauce. I believe there's an ALL MY GHOSTS single in existence as well with this interview.
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His name is Dalton. He's got a degree in philosophy.
-bRIAN |
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fumanbru
* Dog in the Sand *
Canada
1461 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2009 : 15:34:52
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that's pretty cool transmarine
this album is unreal....plus the artwork...especially the all my ghosts ep..love that one
the lyrics to the song all my ghosts are phenomenal
 "I joined the Cult of Frank/ cause I'm a real go-getter!"...long live snitz!! |
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Arm Arm Arm
* Dog in the Sand *
1034 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2009 : 17:47:58
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That's a fun single! I love that version of HUMBOLDT.
Great art, as well. |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5448 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2009 : 10:42:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Brank_Flack
The backing vocals on I Gotta Move just sound so flat and uninspired - especially the "ooo"'s. While overall the catholics sound great on this album, i must admit that along with the backing vocals
Because of this thread I've been listening to this album in my car. I gotta say I love the backing vocals on I Gotta Move. But I must like offkey backing vocals, because Ram is one of my all time favorite albums.
I have been noticing the Frank's voice isn't as good as on subsequent albums. |
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pixiestu
> Teenager of the Year <
United Kingdom
2564 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2009 : 01:31:25
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My favourite Catholics album, and probably my favourite album of FB overall.
All My Ghosts and The Man WHo Was Too Loud are two of FB's best songs ever. Absolutely love the lead guitar on this album. I do prefer Lyle to any other Catholics guitarist.
"The arc of triumph" |
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vilainde
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Niue
7438 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2010 : 23:40:53
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It's also my favorite FB album. TOTY is the best but FB&TC is definitely my fave, if that makes sense.
I have so many fond memories associated with this record. I became a Frank Black fan just after CoR was released, and in 1998 I would listen to the Pixies all day long, every day. I had a cassette with TLM on one side and BN on the other and I would play it non-stop.
Then one night in March I turned on the radio and I heard Frank Black was invited for an interview and radio session (that was the France Inter session, where he played Dog Gone and Humboldt, for those who have it on mp3). So my first encounter with the Catholics was the album version of Six Sixty-Six, which blew my mind right away. I taped the radio show and 2 months later bought the album, went to my parents', borrowed their car and put on the album at full volume. That's a 30-second memory I'll never erase - speeding up the hill with All My Ghosts blasting out. So that's the album which turned me from a Pixies lover, Frank Black connoisser, into a full-on FB überfan.
Fun thing is that I don't think the songs are too good separately. I'm not the hugest fan of Do You Feel Bad About It, I Gotta Move or Suffering. But as an album it all makes sense. It's just... perfect.
Denis
"Can you hear me? I aint got shit to say." |
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gotmeamovie
- FB Fan -
158 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2010 : 10:45:30
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This album is good, its not great.
It was his first attempt at more standard song writing, so it is hit and miss.
While there are some songs that just arent up to his usual standard, the high points are very high.
All my ghosts is just an amazing song. Has lyrics that make you sit and ponder your very existance.
Man who was too loud has a great riff and tempo
But the production can be a bit too simple and grating at times, and lyle on this album, i just dont think is as effective as on previous ones
"If all you've seen, is violence!" |
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joe FITZ of molly BANG
= Cult of Ray =
USA
349 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2010 : 10:56:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Brank_Flack
I feel that this is the album where Black Francis really became Frank Black, with the Cult of Ray as a transition between the two.
Overall, i think it's a more consistent album than CoR, and a less awkward one as it seems like Frank has a better idea of what sound he's going for than he did before. Plus, it doesnt hurt that the album boasts one of the best songs frank has ever writter - All My Ghosts, with Dog Gone being another classic in my opinion.
Also, Frank's singing sounds great on the album, he's really beginning to master his deeper/raspier sound. However, i believe the Catholics had horrible backing vocals, which Frank's great vocal deliveries only emphasize. The backing vocals on I Gotta Move just sound so flat and uninspired - especially the "ooo"'s. While overall the catholics sound great on this album, i must admit that along with the backing vocals, i've found their other main weakness their lead guitar. It just seems really unispired and cheesy to me
As someone who connects artwork with the album - what was frank thinking with the album artwork? Honestly, it has to be some of the worst, if not the worst, artwork by a serious musician that i've ever seen. Does anyone know if it was done jokingly? It just seems cheap to me, and it made me feel like the music was cheap for a while as well. Luckilly, i've been able to distance myself from the artwork recently and as a result i've enjoyed the album much more.
Score: 7.5/10
Favourites: All My Ghosts, Dog Gone
Least Favourite: King and Queen of Siam, Do You Feel Bad About it? (Good tune, corny lyrics)
Underrated: Steak 'N' Sabre, Suffering, I Need Peace
It took me a while to get into Suffering, but i was won over when i saw it acoustic in 2006.
What were the b-sides? The discography section has been down for a while - if i'm not mistaken is living on soul one of them? If so, that song seems like more of an A-side to me than a B-side, though i'm not a fan of the lead guitar.
What do ya'll think?
Past Discussions:
#1 Frank Black http://forum.frankblack.net/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=19773
#3 Cult of Ray (should still be on main page)
i love this album it totally rocks. and is good transition from cult of ray to pistolero. king and queen of siam should be on the best of imho. so good one of my fave's! "just make sweet love just all the time". all my ghosts i know frank said that he really likes. and it is a great song, but i don't think it should be on the best of. the b-sides of the single are all awesome in my opinion (and even should go on the best of. ok ok, make it an anthology. 2 discs.) |
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joe FITZ of molly BANG
= Cult of Ray =
USA
349 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2010 : 10:57:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Jose Jones
a friend of mine surprised me with this album on vinyl for my birthday yesterday. awesome.
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they were the heroes of old, men of renown.
shut the f--k up!!! that's so awesome!! where did they find it??? i've only seen show me your tears on vinyl. |
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joe FITZ of molly BANG
= Cult of Ray =
USA
349 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2010 : 10:58:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Jose Jones
branklin mentioned the backing vocals. i'm fine with them here, but they hurt some pistolero songs. i love McDave, but the squealing on "you're such a wire" and "bad harmony" ruin otherwise nice melodies. in fact, i didn't like "you're such a wire" for a long time, then i realized everything about it except the background vocals is superb.
and lyle's solos on steak and sabre are inventive and really really really... good.
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they were the heroes of old, men of renown.
you're such a wire is much much better acoustic. |
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joe FITZ of molly BANG
= Cult of Ray =
USA
349 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2010 : 10:59:46
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quote:
Originally posted by fumanbru
that's pretty cool transmarine
this album is unreal....plus the artwork...especially the all my ghosts ep..love that one
the lyrics to the song all my ghosts are phenomenal
"I joined the Cult of Frank/ cause I'm a real go-getter!"...long live snitz!!
why wasn't this the cover? the brown album is the worst cover ever. hahaha. i hope intentional. |
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joe FITZ of molly BANG
= Cult of Ray =
USA
349 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2010 : 11:01:24
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quote:
Originally posted by gotmeamovie
This album is good, its not great.
It was his first attempt at more standard song writing, so it is hit and miss.
While there are some songs that just arent up to his usual standard, the high points are very high.
All my ghosts is just an amazing song. Has lyrics that make you sit and ponder your very existance.
Man who was too loud has a great riff and tempo
But the production can be a bit too simple and grating at times, and lyle on this album, i just dont think is as effective as on previous ones
"If all you've seen, is violence!"
interesting. i'm so suprised about the love all my ghosts. was it all of your favorites before it was on the best of and before you found out that it was one of charles favorites? |
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gotmeamovie
- FB Fan -
158 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2010 : 11:19:04
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always liked it
was my first exposure to frank post teenager album
"If all you've seen, is violence!" |
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pixiestu
> Teenager of the Year <
United Kingdom
2564 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2010 : 14:04:03
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quote:
Originally posted by joe FITZ of molly BANG
quote:
Originally posted by gotmeamovie
This album is good, its not great.
It was his first attempt at more standard song writing, so it is hit and miss.
While there are some songs that just arent up to his usual standard, the high points are very high.
All my ghosts is just an amazing song. Has lyrics that make you sit and ponder your very existance.
Man who was too loud has a great riff and tempo
But the production can be a bit too simple and grating at times, and lyle on this album, i just dont think is as effective as on previous ones
"If all you've seen, is violence!"
interesting. i'm so suprised about the love all my ghosts. was it all of your favorites before it was on the best of and before you found out that it was one of charles favorites?
I'm pretty sure it's always been a fan favourite. It won the survivor game for that album if I'm not mistaken, which was a good few years back. Come to think of it, it was over 5 years at least. Where has the time gone!?
"The arc of triumph" |
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Jose Jones
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1758 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2010 : 14:35:24
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it's just an undeniably great song, right? you can't really argue with it.
and i love the acoustic version of "you're such a wire," but i can't get enough of rich's subtle lead on the Pistolero take.
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they were the heroes of old, men of renown. |
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Somnambulist
- FB Fan -
USA
8 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2010 : 18:37:36
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I often find myself struggling with each new album and this one was no different. For me it's because Charles challenges my ears. I probably wouldn't tolerate this from another artist so that probably makes me a bit of a fanboy.
If I remember correctly, I rushed to Tower Records as soon as I got off off work to pick this up the day it was released. I've done that since Cult of Ray (I was late to the party with FB and TOTY) but Pixies were my high school soundtrack.
This album rates high on my list. Higher than DITS. Higher than SMYT. Somewhere below TOTY and FB. On par with BLD and Honeycomb.
BTW, Do You Feel Bad About It? is a fantastic song. Simple and heartfelt. Reminds me of a breakup I went through once.
I slept all night in my plastic car |
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johnnyribcage
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2010 : 18:43:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Brank_Flack
The backing vocals on I Gotta Move just sound so flat and uninspired - especially the "ooo"'s. While overall the catholics sound great on this album, i must admit that along with the backing vocals, i've found their other main weakness their lead guitar. It just seems really unispired and cheesy to me
Least Favourite: King and Queen of Siam,
Underrated: Steak 'N' Sabre
What do ya'll think?
I'll hit some points, no animosity, just giving some counter-point:
I always thought the backing vocals on I Gotta Move were pretty neat in their understated-ness. Seems like an interesting juxtaposition with the rest of it, and I don't think I would want a supporting vocalist competing with Frank.
I love the lead guitar work on this whole album, really inspired in my opinion. It reminds me of a lot of the lead work on Teenager - just rippin' classic solos with a slightly twisted bent. I love it. It's a damn sight better than the solos on Ray, which I think stick out like a sore thumb. Seems like he (Workman I believe) was trying too hard and or spent too many takes on each solo and they didn't seem to fit the songs at all. I'm pretty sure he did the solos on FB&tC too, and a lot of them on Teenager (I don't have the liner notes in front of me) so who knows what his and the band's mood was in the studio was regarding the solos.. That's my tastes though, diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks.
Siam's one of my favorites! Nifty riff/groove and Frank's unhinged vocals hit the highest highs and the lowest lows - a lot of fun!
I'm not sure who's underrating Steak N' Sabre, but it's without a doubt my favorite on the record.
I will agree that the artwork (of the album, not the single) is pretty damn lame.
At least it's not as bad Roger Daltry's beautiful mess-terpiece, Ride A Rock Horse...
Although... Charles might make a few waves if he did his own version of the above... No such thing as bad publicity right?
I'll mash your perfect parts. |
Edited by - johnnyribcage on 02/28/2010 20:28:35 |
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joe FITZ of molly BANG
= Cult of Ray =
USA
349 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2010 : 06:16:49
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quote:
At least it's not as bad Roger Daltry's beautiful mess-terpiece, Ride A Rock Horse...
Although... Charles might make a few waves if he did his own version of the above... No such thing as bad publicity right?
I'll mash your perfect parts.
hahaha!!! |
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moonruler
- FB Fan -
USA
195 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2010 : 14:22:35
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This is one of those albums that was disappointing when I first heard it, but became one of my faves. CoR and Pistolero are similar in that regard; they grow on you.
I think this is a great guitar album also. Just incredibly rocking and old school as are the backing vocals.
Too many great songs to just point out one and none that I would say that do not fall into that category. But what the heck. All My Ghosts, I Need Peace, Back to Rome and Steak n Sabre are all in my top Fb songs. And the rest of the album, too. I guess I didn't point out just one. |
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Brank_Flack
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
910 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2010 : 17:52:00
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quote:
Originally posted by johnnyribcage
quote:
Originally posted by Brank_Flack
The backing vocals on I Gotta Move just sound so flat and uninspired - especially the "ooo"'s. While overall the catholics sound great on this album, i must admit that along with the backing vocals, i've found their other main weakness their lead guitar. It just seems really unispired and cheesy to me
Least Favourite: King and Queen of Siam,
Underrated: Steak 'N' Sabre
What do ya'll think?
I'll hit some points, no animosity, just giving some counter-point:
I always thought the backing vocals on I Gotta Move were pretty neat in their understated-ness. Seems like an interesting juxtaposition with the rest of it, and I don't think I would want a supporting vocalist competing with Frank.
I love the lead guitar work on this whole album, really inspired in my opinion. It reminds me of a lot of the lead work on Teenager - just rippin' classic solos with a slightly twisted bent. I love it. It's a damn sight better than the solos on Ray, which I think stick out like a sore thumb. Seems like he (Workman I believe) was trying too hard and or spent too many takes on each solo and they didn't seem to fit the songs at all. I'm pretty sure he did the solos on FB&tC too, and a lot of them on Teenager (I don't have the liner notes in front of me) so who knows what his and the band's mood was in the studio was regarding the solos.. That's my tastes though, diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks.
Siam's one of my favorites! Nifty riff/groove and Frank's unhinged vocals hit the highest highs and the lowest lows - a lot of fun!
I'm not sure who's underrating Steak N' Sabre, but it's without a doubt my favorite on the record.
I will agree that the artwork (of the album, not the single) is pretty damn lame.
At least it's not as bad Roger Daltry's beautiful mess-terpiece, Ride A Rock Horse...
Although... Charles might make a few waves if he did his own version of the above... No such thing as bad publicity right?
I'll mash your perfect parts.
I think this should be the cover of every album. |
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coastline
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3111 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2010 : 17:50:34
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I've always liked how the tracklist is alphabetical yet seems like it was carefully arranged. Could you imagine not starting this album with All My Ghosts?
 Please pardon me, for these my wrongs. |
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Topic |
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Album Talk #4: Frank Black and the Catholics
