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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3909 Posts |
 Posted - 09/05/2023 : 13:54:46
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| The Stones are free to cancel culture whatever they like of theirs - but when it's part of a sinister growing trend orchestrated by media hysteria as part of a bigger agenda to control every aspect of our lives or to psychologically condition the masses for obedience then I have a problem with it - notice how it's all white western culture that is being slowly cancelled ? I don't think that isn't by design |
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Troubles A Foot
= Cult of Ray =
USA
817 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2023 : 19:56:56
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| That's not quite true, pot. Many non-white people have been cancelled, mainly those that go against the grain of what politics or views white people expect them to have. One of the books unpublished that I was referring to was by an Asian author. But the reason this is mostly happening in western culture is because it's a western phenomenon. Other cultures have more important things to concern themselves with. It's generally an upper/middle class trend. Bored people without anything pressing going on in their lives, I think. |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6012 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2023 : 05:24:06
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"Power of the mob", "orchestrated by media hysteria". I see a whole lot of people here in the Netherlands, whose concernces are happily broadcasted/published by traditional media, warning against a very small group of non-violent extremists. Their power to cancel is seen as normal, I guess.
"They DON'T actually have to, but something in the air has made them think that...that something in the air is what is scary to me, and should be to you."
So where are talking about something that's in the air. Love that song by Thunderclap Newman.
But that's the whole point. You don't have to change anything, and that something in the air ("the sign of the times"?) can be something good, or something silly. It's for artists to decide what they want to change and what not.
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
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Troubles A Foot
= Cult of Ray =
USA
817 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2023 : 08:54:00
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Bill, my wife is in publishing and I see this stuff first-hand. I even see the editorial notes she gets from sensitivity readers. I'm now not just talking about what artists choose to do when they are self-censoring (which, as I've said, I also think is very worrying, and should worry you too), but how this culture of fear is diminishing artforms left and right, and draining talent and risk from once-exciting artists, and that we are all poorer for it. It's cultural rot. Some brave souls are not affected, but many are.
As I've said, books have actually been canceled before being published because a tiny group of people go insane about it (and in EVERY case it's totally ridiculous and not justified.) Movies are being censored. Disney rewrites their fairytale movies so as to be entirely risk-averse and not offend anybody. In the end we have an entire generation raised on bland oatmeal.
I remember one of the first examples of this was like 10 years ago, an artist for Batgirl (the comic book) had to apologize for making a drawing of the Joker too scary. This was when I knew something bizarre was happening. There are literally 1000s of these stories, which I keep up with, as it's incredibly fascinating and strange to me. And like I said, observing various artistic industries, I see these things happen and talk to people about it firsthand. If you have the time, you should dip into the YA publishing controversies over the past few years, highly entertaining and totally batshit crazy. Me and my wife listen to lots of podcasts chronicling these things.
This controlling behavior towards art is becoming normalized unless people loudly backlash against it, but I don't see that enough. Like Disney should have been made to apologize about censoring The French Connection, but they faced no consequence.
Hopefully, the tide will turn against this stuff. Any day now (checks watch.) |
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3909 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2023 : 10:58:36
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quote:
Originally posted by billgoodman
"Power of the mob", "orchestrated by media hysteria". I see a whole lot of people here in the Netherlands, whose concernces are happily broadcasted/published by traditional media, warning against a very small group of non-violent extremists. Their power to cancel is seen as normal, I guess.
Seen that clip from a few years ago during the lockdown era at some protest in the Netherlands somewhere ? a BBC reporter stopped someone to ask them a question and his response was (in a strong Dutch accent) “Oh you’re from the BBC - no man fuck the BBC!” and walks off and refuses to talk to them
I guess maybe it’s not as bad in NL and there’s far more People Power than in the UK these days but most people still seem blissfully ignorant to the sheer extent of the lies and psychological manipulation of the masses being used by all the main legacy media syndicates globally these days - all their news is approved by the Trusted News Inititative which is why they all pretty much repeat exactly the same news stories every day - some of the tactics they are using are exactly the same as what was used on the German people by Hitler pre-WWII
The UK government employs an actual “Nudge Unit” comprised of psychologists and “experts” who advise the government on policy enforcement - it usually involves sustained and calculated fearmongering hysteria across all platforms and plenty of fake virtue signalling |
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3909 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2023 : 12:15:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Troubles A Foot
That's not quite true, pot. Many non-white people have been cancelled, mainly those that go against the grain of what politics or views white people expect them to have. One of the books unpublished that I was referring to was by an Asian author. But the reason this is mostly happening in western culture is because it's a western phenomenon. Other cultures have more important things to concern themselves with. It's generally an upper/middle class trend. Bored people without anything pressing going on in their lives, I think.
I know a few Asian doctors and experts who were cancelled for their views on COVID - but I think most or all the culture cancelling is targetted towards White Western values and history etc - do you have an example of cancel culture attacking some cultural aspect of African or Asian culture ? I can’t think of one
We have words in our language cancelled all the time - and as new ones replace old terms used to describe some race or whatever they then end up becoming considered offensive and then cancelled as well so we end up at a point where nobody knows what word(s) to use for fear of offending someone |
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Troubles A Foot
= Cult of Ray =
USA
817 Posts |
Posted - 09/07/2023 : 11:52:20
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quote:
Originally posted by pot
I know a few Asian doctors and experts who were cancelled for their views on COVID - but I think most or all the culture cancelling is targetted towards White Western values and history etc - do you have an example of cancel culture attacking some cultural aspect of African or Asian culture ? I can’t think of one
I'm not talking about COVID, I'm talking about art.
Yes. Disney censoring Song of the South:
https://disney.fandom.com/wiki/Tar_Baby#:~:text=Originally%2C%20the%20Tar%20Baby%20was,different%20from%20the%20animated%20segments%2C
This aspect of the film (and the Splash Mountain ride) is based on African folklore. The story was invented by Africans many many years ago. It made white people uncomfortable so it's gone.
And this is the Asian author who had her book unpublished because it dared to discuss slavery from her own culture's history, which offended insane white people who don't want to hear about slavery, except when they want everybody to talk about it, and it never makes sense because these people are incoherent and hypocritical:
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/feb/01/young-adult-author-cancels-own-novel-after-race-controversy
"Zhao, who raised in Beijing and emigrated from China to the US at the age of 18, said she wrote the book “from my immediate cultural perspective”, writing that the slavery storylines in her novel “represent a specific critique of the epidemic of indentured labor and human trafficking prevalent in many industries across Asia, including in my own home country”." |
Edited by - Troubles A Foot on 09/07/2023 11:55:32 |
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3909 Posts |
Posted - 09/07/2023 : 15:03:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Troubles A Foot
quote:
Originally posted by pot
I know a few Asian doctors and experts who were cancelled for their views on COVID - but I think most or all the culture cancelling is targetted towards White Western values and history etc - do you have an example of cancel culture attacking some cultural aspect of African or Asian culture ? I can’t think of one
I'm not talking about COVID, I'm talking about art.
Yes. Disney censoring Song of the South:
https://disney.fandom.com/wiki/Tar_Baby#:~:text=Originally%2C%20the%20Tar%20Baby%20was,different%20from%20the%20animated%20segments%2C
This aspect of the film (and the Splash Mountain ride) is based on African folklore. The story was invented by Africans many many years ago. It made white people uncomfortable so it's gone.
And this is the Asian author who had her book unpublished because it dared to discuss slavery from her own culture's history, which offended insane white people who don't want to hear about slavery, except when they want everybody to talk about it, and it never makes sense because these people are incoherent and hypocritical:
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/feb/01/young-adult-author-cancels-own-novel-after-race-controversy
"Zhao, who raised in Beijing and emigrated from China to the US at the age of 18, said she wrote the book “from my immediate cultural perspective”, writing that the slavery storylines in her novel “represent a specific critique of the epidemic of indentured labor and human trafficking prevalent in many industries across Asia, including in my own home country”."
Ok fine - they cancelled slavery history because it didn't paint white people as the bad guys ? And African folklore cancelled because white people bad sounds like you are inferring ?
Don't know anything about all the above just saying what I perceive as a general bias against certain cultures over others that's being promoted as a media narrative
Censorship is evil whatever it is cancelling and what we are seeing is all part of a more sinister agenda |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6012 Posts |
Posted - 09/08/2023 : 01:32:52
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All good input in our discussion.
Thanks friends!
Gatekeepers have always been there. Sometimes they keep things from their channels for good reason, sometimes for a bad reason and lot's of it is random. I work in the cultural heritage sector. It's my job to collect journalism, media art, you name it, and archive it. We don't know what will be left of our cultural production of today, but since lot's of cultural production from the past is being re-released thanks to archives, it's safe to say that the chances are bigger that a story (in audio, video, on paper, in digital form) is being retold by the next generations if it's kept safe in a climate controlled vault, with digital back ups and so on.
My and my co-workers decide what will probably "the story of the past" in the future. The stuff that we don't archive, for whatever reason, has a bigger chance to dissappear, to perish. We save cultural production for a living. We also cancel cultural production for a living.
Publishers, journalists, labels, they all do and always have. We hope they will base their choices on well informed expertise. Not because a goverment tells them to, that would be censorship. Not because (a small part of the) the public tells them to. I wouldn't call that censorship, but maybe it is. Self censorship, could very well be? I have no idea what's in the head of the gatekeepers. Of course everything has influence on the gatekeepers. What is considered politically correct in point in time has a bigger chance to get past the gatekeeper.
We live in a time that gatekeepers have less impact, they can't control cultural production like they used to. That's a good thing. Thanks to to (open source) online media. People can archive things on their own, people can publish things on their own, people can release records on their own. If you want to draw a scary Joker and release it to millions of people nobody is stopping you, apart maybe from a copyright lawyer. (one of the tools the gatekeepers still have). Should DC release a scary Joker if they want. Yep, I think they should. But maybe they are afraid to sell less. They don't care about cultural values primarly, they want to sell books first. Sensitivity readers are not there because they trully want a better product and don't want to offend people. It's pr. It is selfcensorship, but not different from the countless editors in comics, in the movie industry before that told their artists how to work. You start with a rough punk version of The Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and you end up with a bland cartoon named The Teenage Mutant Hero (!) Turtles. I hope artists can get all the freedom to release what they want. Some parts of the cultural industry are relatively editor free. I'm all up for it.
People can now fight the gatekeepers, they can question their authority. It's way easier to contact a gatekeeper than it used to be. Or to call them out. To "cancel them". The gatekeeper could just ignore the public, and maybe they should. We have to find a new balance in all this.
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6012 Posts |
Posted - 09/08/2023 : 01:37:17
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More on topic:
See what boygenius - chroniqueurs/gatekeepers/editors of their own - have collected for us:
https://open.spotify.com/playlist/37i9dQZF1DWUWDUTr5d7Wq
Frank Black is choice number three!
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
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Stevio10
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
1073 Posts |
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Sprite
* Dog in the Sand *
1227 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2023 : 02:18:49
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| I'm digging it, sounds a bit more early FB&C than Pixies on first listen. |
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Bedbug
> Teenager of the Year <
2963 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2023 : 14:50:57
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| Glad to hear it. Agree that it reminds me of solo FB. Good stuff |
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3909 Posts |
Posted - 09/10/2023 : 01:05:08
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| Has a bit of a BTE Demoes feel to it too |
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The Maharal
= Cult of Ray =
961 Posts |
Posted - 09/10/2023 : 07:09:33
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I like the repeated shouting bit at the end. Plenty of songs with royalty in the title now:
Jane The Queen of Love (w/ Catholics)
King and Queen of Siam (w/ Catholics)
The Real El Rey (solo)
The King and Queen (w/ the Suicide Commandos)
Andro Queen (w/ Pixies)
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Bedbug
> Teenager of the Year <
2963 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2023 : 06:40:15
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quote:
Originally posted by The Maharal
I like the repeated shouting bit at the end. Plenty of songs with royalty in the title now:
Jane The Queen of Love (w/ Catholics)
King and Queen of Siam (w/ Catholics)
The Real El Rey (solo)
The King and Queen (w/ the Suicide Commandos)
Andro Queen (w/ Pixies)
His Kingly Cave |
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3909 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2023 : 14:22:27
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Heard this today in the record shop where I officially just sold my first 4x4" mounted Pixies design print (even though it's not that good and I probably need to rework it) - it's a Leonard Cohen cover that I don't remember very well and I thought it was that new one from that other tribute album I can't remember
It's Cult Of Ray as fuck I think ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzS_M9XC43g
Hey - I forgot about I Can't Forget  |
Edited by - pot on 10/05/2023 14:26:50 |
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Brank_Flack
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
910 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2023 : 09:03:30
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| Love that one - too bad it didn't make the B-Sides and Rarities album (is it the only song from the original run not collected in it?) |
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Sprite
* Dog in the Sand *
1227 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2023 : 10:34:10
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| Born in Chicago no? I nearly spent a lot of money on Rubáiyát to get it, but held back. |
Edited by - Sprite on 10/09/2023 10:34:27 |
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Brank_Flack
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
910 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2023 : 12:29:33
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| Wow, I've never heard of it. That's exciting! |
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Sprite
* Dog in the Sand *
1227 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2023 : 07:01:00
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Good link this. It includes the only Pixies song from the original run (besides Boom Chikka Boom) that I never heard back in the day. It's a cover of the Beach Boys I know there's an answer as Hang on to your Ego.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cZo9Z6y8sk |
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Bedbug
> Teenager of the Year <
2963 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2023 : 13:45:49
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NYTimes sent me this today, along with a nice photo of Charles and the gang
“15 Great Songs from 1989 (The Year, Not the Album)” track list
Track 1: Janet Jackson, “Miss You Much”
Track 2: De La Soul, “Me Myself and I”
Track 3: The Stone Roses, “She Bangs the Drums”
Track 4: R.E.M., “Pop Song 89”
Track 5: Depeche Mode, “Personal Jesus”
Track 6: Beastie Boys, “Egg Man”
Track 7: Love and Rockets, “So Alive”
Track 8: Madonna, “Cherish”
Track 9: Pixies, “Debaser”
Track 10: Elvis Costello, “Veronica”
Track 11: Public Enemy, “Fight the Power”
Track 12: Nirvana, “About a Girl”
Track 13: Galaxie 500, “Strange”
Track 14: Kate Bush, “This Woman’s Work”
Track 15: Indigo Girls, “Closer to Fine” |
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Sprite
* Dog in the Sand *
1227 Posts |
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Bedbug
> Teenager of the Year <
2963 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2023 : 16:16:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Sprite
Almost a hate positing but if you do click you will discover something new. Apparently Kim Deal was the only decent guitarist in the Pixies 
https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-lists/best-guitarists-1234814010/
Thanks for posting that Sprite
Not only do they make you have to scroll through the whole list one entry (with photo) at a time, but when you get through all 250 you didn't see the name Dean Ween anywhere. That's my complaint. |
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Bedbug
> Teenager of the Year <
2963 Posts |
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johnnyribcage
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 12/01/2023 : 12:10:09
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Anyone ever listen to / hear of a band called Custard? They’re Australian, have been active since like 1990 or so. I found out about them because my daughters watch (and I do to for that matter) a lot of Bluey. It’s a cute short Aussie cartoon on Disney+. Anyway. I read an article that mentioned that the guy that voices Bluey’s dad - David McCormack - is the lead in this band called Custard.
I dug them up on Apple Music mainly just curious thinking it would be funny to picture Bandit fronting a band. Although it is a humorous image, turns out, I really dig them. There’s more than a hint of pixies / FBF in there, especially in the earlier stuff. They definitely have their own thing going though. I’ve yet to throw on an album that didn’t grab me.
So far I’ve spent some time with their latest called “Respect All Lifeforms,” which is great, “Wisenheimer,” and “Wahooti Fandango” (from 1994). Wahooti is my favorite so far. Give it a spin and tell me you don’t hear shades of TOTY era Frank and Catholics. I wonder if Charles knows them or if they’ve ever crossed paths. Seriously, the weird amalgam of punk and garage grunge pop plus steel guitar is all here... In a few songs you can hear like a little blueprint for the Catholics...
Always fun to “find” new music that’s been there all along.
bonus edit: I know technically this probably goes in some "what are you listening to?" obscure thread somewhere around here, but it's really only like 5 of us, so whatever.
I had a bad reaction to your public hobby writings. |
Edited by - johnnyribcage on 12/01/2023 19:43:13 |
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johnnyribcage
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 12/01/2023 : 19:44:27
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Aaaannnnddd I'm listening to one of theirs from 1997, We Have The Technology, and I'm like - DAMN this just reminds me of the spirit of TOTY, solo FB... looked it up and turns out it's produced by Eric Drew Feldman. Am I the last one to this party? Am I just that dreadfully behind?
I had a bad reaction to your public hobby writings. |
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Stevio10
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
1073 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2023 : 04:38:24
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I'd never heard of them but know of Bluey of course!
Had a wee look on Wikipedia and found this;
1996 and 1997 were big years for the band, touring Australia with Weezer, Frank Black, Beck and the Presidents of the USA
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Custard_(band)
Interesting that EDF produced, will check them out. |
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johnnyribcage
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2023 : 17:12:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Stevio10
I'd never heard of them but know of Bluey of course!
Had a wee look on Wikipedia and found this;
1996 and 1997 were big years for the band, touring Australia with Weezer, Frank Black, Beck and the Presidents of the USA
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Custard_(band)
Interesting that EDF produced, will check them out.
Check them out and let me know what you think. That Wahooti is still my fav so far.
I had a bad reaction to your public hobby writings. |
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Stevio10
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
1073 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2023 : 14:37:15
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| I've done some light listening they seem quite good. I seem to be having some sort of music apathy thing going on at the moment where music just isn't doing much for me so I'm not able to give much of an opinion. I hope it's temporary. |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6012 Posts |
Posted - 12/22/2023 : 00:04:15
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quote:
Originally posted by johnnyribcage
Anyone ever listen to / hear of a band called Custard? They’re Australian, have been active since like 1990 or so. I found out about them because my daughters watch (and I do to for that matter) a lot of Bluey. It’s a cute short Aussie cartoon on Disney+. Anyway. I read an article that mentioned that the guy that voices Bluey’s dad - David McCormack - is the lead in this band called Custard.
I dug them up on Apple Music mainly just curious thinking it would be funny to picture Bandit fronting a band. Although it is a humorous image, turns out, I really dig them. There’s more than a hint of pixies / FBF in there, especially in the earlier stuff. They definitely have their own thing going though. I’ve yet to throw on an album that didn’t grab me.
So far I’ve spent some time with their latest called “Respect All Lifeforms,” which is great, “Wisenheimer,” and “Wahooti Fandango” (from 1994). Wahooti is my favorite so far. Give it a spin and tell me you don’t hear shades of TOTY era Frank and Catholics. I wonder if Charles knows them or if they’ve ever crossed paths. Seriously, the weird amalgam of punk and garage grunge pop plus steel guitar is all here... In a few songs you can hear like a little blueprint for the Catholics...
Always fun to “find” new music that’s been there all along.
bonus edit: I know technically this probably goes in some "what are you listening to?" obscure thread somewhere around here, but it's really only like 5 of us, so whatever.
I had a bad reaction to your public hobby writings.
He turns out to be a major Devo fan too, has made a recording as Davo, which is pretty funny.
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6012 Posts |
Posted - 12/22/2023 : 00:05:19
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I love Bluey btw, but I watch it in Dutch with my kids
of course
It's one of the best shows I have ever seen. And watch children's television primarly.
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
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Bedbug
> Teenager of the Year <
2963 Posts |
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jake3
- FB Fan -
United Kingdom
245 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2024 : 12:26:52
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quote:
Originally posted by jake3
quote:
Originally posted by jake3
An interesting Spotify stat:
'All I Think About Now' is the 10th most listened to song in the entire Pixies catalogue having more listens than any other song on ‘Come On Pilgrim’, ‘Bossanova’, ‘Trompe Le Monde’, ‘Indie Cindy’, ‘Head Carrier’ or ‘Beneath the Eerie’, as well as more listens than any FB/BF/Catholics song or any Breeders song, excluding 'Cannonball'.
Quite the achievement for Paz's first songwriting contribution!
Just to update this 'All I Think About Now' is still rapidly gaining listens on Spotify. It's now the 7th most listened to Pixies song on the platform at 39.9 million listens behind 'Where Is My Mind?' (662.3m), 'Here Comes Your Man' (169.9m), 'Hey' (145.5m), 'Debaser' (81.9m), 'Monkey Gone To Heaven' (68m) and 'Gouge Away' (40.5m). Quite unbelievable really. From what I can gather it's a Spotify playlist thing.
Update (16 Jan 24)
Top 10 Most Streamed Pixies Songs On Spotify:
1) Where Is My Mind? - 810.6m
2) Here Comes Your Man - 203m
3) Hey - 169.3m
4) Debaser - 93.1m
5) Monkey Gone To Heaven - 83m
6) All I Think About Now - 61.2m
7) Gouge Away - 51.8m
8) Wave of Mutilation - 41.4m
9) Gigantic - 35.2m
10) Wave of Mutilation (UK Surf) - 34.4m
x) Cannonball - 115.6m
Monthly Listeners:
Pixies - 9.6m
The Breeders - 1.2m
Frank Black - 152k
Frank Black & The Catholics - 14.4k
Black Francis - 12k
Grand Duchy - <1k |
Edited by - jake3 on 01/16/2024 12:42:19 |
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Troubles A Foot
= Cult of Ray =
USA
817 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2024 : 22:11:35
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quote:
Originally posted by jake3
Update (16 Jan 24)
Top 10 Most Streamed Pixies Songs On Spotify:
6) All I Think About Now - 61.2m
What could possibly be the reason for this? |
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Not worth a topic, but at least postable...
