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beersnob
- FB Fan -
USA
28 Posts |
 Posted - 09/20/2007 : 14:13:39
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| Let's be friends already. |
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mantaraysallright
- FB Fan -
USA
110 Posts |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2007 : 14:32:57
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quote:
Originally posted by mantaraysallright
ok to clear the record right now. I WAS in the same house (and therefore had the same IP as Marshall), I AM NOT the same person as marshall. Two people can exist at the same IP...no one is trying to play some childish multiuser spam game here.
i think we understand now
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Edited by - floop on 09/20/2007 14:33:24 |
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MarshalltheMarsist
- FB Fan -
USA
54 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2007 : 14:34:09
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quote:
Originally posted by floop
quote:
Originally posted by MarshalltheMarsist
Also FWIW I'm not saying Frank IS an asshole, I was just suggesting that playing 21-and-over shows is something an asshole would do - an opinion I actually happen to have. That does NOT make me a troll.
um, that doesn't make sense.
also, you said this:
"Perhaps I was formerly blinded by my extreme affection for Frank's music, and only now am I able to look at it more objectively, and say "Only an asshole would play 21-only shows, be it with Pixies or alone."
which just seems like i'm-going-to-try-and-rile-everyone-up kind of talk. that's all i'm saying marshmellow. i'm sorry i didn't check your join date and i didn't know you sometimes share a household with beersnob (or mantaray?)..
Now you're trying to rile me up, by claiming once again that I am beersnob despite the fact that I am not and have said as much.
quote:
Originally posted by Tiny Team Concerts
This whole thing is silly.
Local, regional and state laws determine what types of clubs can and cannot let in underage people where alcohol is served.
That depends on many things, most commonly, whether or not the venue in question is a full-service restaurant as well and serves meals instead of just liquor and peanuts.
Marshall, please don't take this the wrong way, but WOW, you're coming off like a real hothead and a self-important one at that.
FBF plays where he wants to play. He's not making a conscious decision to "sell beer" or to exclude people from his shows.
And he's not Ian "my way or the highway" Mackaye, nor should he be expected to be.
He's not Robert Pollard or Paul Westerberg or John Hiatt. He's Frank Black Francis, and in his own unique way, he's probably more generous with his diehard fans than almost any other modern-day rock star/songwriter.
He lets us into his home and into his family through videos and pictures and anecdotes. He plays small, intimate venues when he feels like it. He is often approachable and polite to strangers. He does gregarious radio and internet interviews and allows us to trade his rare broadcasts and live shows. He plays festivals as well, which - while not intimate - are usually ALL-AGES.
He even did that Fabchannel show that everyone around the world could watch for free.
In other words, he's one of the very few GOOD guys in the biz.
You and Manta should please lay off the snark and the attitude. It's you guys who "miss the point." We're all sorry you two can't get into the show, but don't take out your agression and disappointment on FBF.
He simply doesn't deserve it.
--
Tiny Team Concerts
"Good music for nice people"
So which venues have you seen Fugazi or the Evens, or hey, even Minor Threat, play in?
Furthermore, I would have no problem going to the show, as I am not underage.
As far as I can tell this venue does have shows that are all-ages, so I don't think you can say state law has anything to do with it.
I really don't care how you think I come off. The plain fact is, I can't think of the last time a band I actually liked played a 21-and-over show, except Frank.
I really don't think I have been all that inflamatory, I just don't know how else to express my point to you guys. However, I don't even see what I have to do with it. I'm not going to debate my "attitude" here; it has nothing to do with what I've been saying.
To be entirely honest, I only came here because you guys (or beersnob at least) were giving my friend shit, and I happened to entirely agree with him. The reason I don't post here is exactly stuff like this - although this is the first time I myself have gotten into a debate here: as well as the way mantaray was treated, my own opinion was taken way out of proportion simply because I expressed it strongly (despite my being totally polite), and all the while people are accusing me of being other people, when any mod could easily verify that I am neither mantaray or beersnob. Seriously, it's like you guys are new to the internet or something.
Whatever, I'm not trying to further this debate; it's quite worthless by now. I don't need you guys to pat me on the back; I will be quite satisfied knowing that I, for one, won't be paying for tickets to any shows Frank may play that are not all-ages. That may sound like sour grapes, but seeing as basically nobody else I'm likely to see (in my experience, at least) plays over-21 shows and I've seen Frank numerous times, I don't think I'll be hurting too bad. |
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MarshalltheMarsist
- FB Fan -
USA
54 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2007 : 14:34:59
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quote:
Originally posted by mantaraysallright
you are wrong, http://www.cafedunord.com/ they have all ages shows at cafe du nord
Eh, what more do I have to say? |
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MarshalltheMarsist
- FB Fan -
USA
54 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2007 : 14:36:17
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quote:
Originally posted by beersnob
Let's be friends already.
BFF? |
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beersnob
- FB Fan -
USA
28 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2007 : 15:10:00
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quote:
Originally posted by MarshalltheMarsist
quote:
Originally posted by beersnob
Let's be friends already.
BFF?
Yep. Like Chan and Wilson.
And to further set the record straight, we've never met. We are not the same person. Just two big personalities that butted heads in the frankblack forum.
Frankly, I literally just joined yesterday after downloading, listening to and enjoying "bluefinger".
I couldn't resist though when I saw that whiny crybaby nonsense. I get the feeling that manatee dude whines about everything. I hope not. |
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PixieSteve
> Teenager of the Year <
Poland
4698 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2007 : 15:10:33
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yeah, boyfriends forever *giggle snort*
We are all atheists about most of the gods that societies have ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further.
- Richard Dawkins |
Edited by - PixieSteve on 09/20/2007 15:38:42 |
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treetime
- FB Fan -
USA
217 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2007 : 17:16:17
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| I'd give props to Black. When I was a kid U2 was my favorite band. I still listen to them sometimes, but have never seen them live becuase it costs $60 plus to see them live. I've seen Black several times, possibly because of the affordability; but honestly I like his music overall more than U2. So I am not one to complain if I missed a few of his shows when I was underage. |
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beersnob
- FB Fan -
USA
28 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2007 : 17:50:59
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quote:
Originally posted by PixieSteve
yeah, boyfriends forever *giggle snort*
Killing me. |
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MarshalltheMarsist
- FB Fan -
USA
54 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2007 : 17:51:18
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quote:
Originally posted by treetime
I'd give props to Black. When I was a kid U2 was my favorite band. I still listen to them sometimes, but have never seen them live becuase it costs $60 plus to see them live. I've seen Black several times, possibly because of the affordability; but honestly I like his music overall more than U2. So I am not one to complain if I missed a few of his shows when I was underage.
Yes, I think we all agree that Frank is better than U2. |
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coastline
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3111 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2007 : 20:06:04
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quote:
Originally posted by mr.biscuitdoughhead
i miss marcus4realius.
 "How do you like that, Sir Harold?"
You know, I was thinking the same exact thing, biscuit. He would have fit in nicely in this thread, wouldn't he? Even his name was similar to a couple of these guys.
 Please pardon me, for these my wrongs. |
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Broken Face
-= Forum Pistolero =-
USA
5155 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2007 : 20:13:30
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A lot of times, venues only hold x amount of all-ages shows a month, to maximize their liquor profits - as FB himself once said, and i'm paraphrasing, "most clubs are just liquor salesmen." In addition, many clubs pay performers less on all-ages shows, because they are not able to sell as much booze.
In addition, many all ages clubs are, frankly, shit-holes with lousy sound systems. (As are many bars, of course) In any case, the vast majority of gig-goers are of age, and i think that keeping ticket costs low/profits high and playing places with quality sound is what is probably paramount to a tour manager.
Which brings me to my last point - i doubt FB himself is booking these shows and looking at all the options - he has a tour manager for that. That being said, when i was underage i missed out on a lot of good shows, and i wish that every band had the ethical stance of Ian MacKaye, but you also have to realize that all 3 bands listed as example (Evens, Fugazi, Minor Threat) are all MacKaye projects, and as we all know MacKaye spearheaded the straight edge movement, so he would be clearly against playing in glorified bars, which are what most venues that artists like FB play in.
/rant
- Brian |
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perrom
- FB Fan -
USA
30 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2007 : 20:18:26
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dude, go see a plastic surgeon and have him install a sack. this is a "punk" rock event and you can't get in? you should be ashamed. put the bluefinger down and insert some nickelback or arctic monkeys.
"I`m drinking antiknock
I do a mantra and I know PL/1" |
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Tiny Team Concerts
- FB Fan -
USA
57 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2007 : 22:40:05
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quote:
Originally posted by MarshalltheMarsistSo which venues have you seen Fugazi or the Evens, or hey, even Minor Threat, play in?
Not to sound like Rudy Ray Moore, but dude, I was through with it before you knew what to do with it. I was helping put on old-school Fugazi shows back in 1990 before Repeater even came out, when they were playing any shithole that would have them, whether it was an actual club or not.
You probably wouldn't have noticed me back then because I wasn't dressed to impress, but I was busy holding up the rented PA speakers so moshpit dipshits wouldn't knock them over and ruin the gig.
quote:
Originally posted by MarshalltheMarsistI really don't care how you think I come off. The plain fact is, I can't think of the last time a band I actually liked played a 21-and-over show, except Frank.
Simply put, you either have absolutely no idea how lucky you are, or FBF is an anomaly in your record collection. The whole idea of ALL-AGES shows and clubs frequented by bands outside of the hardcore and low-fi house party scene is a phenomenon that has only been in full swing for less than a decade, and even then, usually only in major markets.
Trust me when I say that kids under 21 all over the country are routinely denied the opportunity to see bands they dig, precisely for that reason. It sounds to me like you are simply unaware of the norm, and have unwittingly led a rather privileged existence as far as nightclubs go.
I wish I'd been able to see 1/4 of the bands I loved live in concert when I was under 21.
quote:
Originally posted by MarshalltheMarsistI will be quite satisfied knowing that I, for one, won't be paying for tickets to any shows Frank may play that are not all-ages. That may sound like sour grapes, but seeing as basically nobody else I'm likely to see (in my experience, at least) plays over-21 shows and I've seen Frank numerous times, I don't think I'll be hurting too bad.
Um, yeah, that does sound like sour grapes, and useless ones at that. I think the key phrase here is "nobody else I'm likely to see."
Obviously, most of the bands you're likely to want to catch live seem to subscribe to a certain school of thought regarding ALL-AGES gigs. Seemingly, FBF does not (in a didactic sense). That doesn't make him even close to an asshole in any way.
It makes the rest of them unusually progressive and/or zealous.
Natural facts/food for thought.
--
Tiny Team Concerts
"Good music for nice people" |
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mr.biscuitdoughhead
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1729 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2007 : 12:56:12
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quote:
Originally posted by coastline
quote:
Originally posted by mr.biscuitdoughhead
i miss marcus4realius.
"How do you like that, Sir Harold?"
You know, I was thinking the same exact thing, biscuit. He would have fit in nicely in this thread, wouldn't he? Even his name was similar to a couple of these guys.
Please pardon me, for these my wrongs.
MarshalltheMarsist4Realius?
"How do you like that, Sir Harold?"
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mr.biscuitdoughhead
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1729 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2007 : 13:00:16
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quote:
Originally posted by perrom
dude, go see a plastic surgeon and have him install a sack. this is a "punk" rock event and you can't get in? you should be ashamed. put the bluefinger down and insert some nickelback or arctic monkeys.
"I`m drinking antiknock
I do a mantra and I know PL/1"
are you talking to mantaraysallright? because as he said in his first post, he's not old enough to get in, why should he "be ashamed"?
i don't feel like reading the rest of this thread so if you're talking to someone else, forget i ever said that.
also i like arctic monkeys.
"How do you like that, Sir Harold?"
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quadrophenic
- FB Fan -
16 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2007 : 23:23:04
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quote:
Originally posted by mantaraysallright
I've been a fan for well over a year now and saw you when you came to the Fillmore last year and when you opened for Tom Petty. I listen to your music every day and would gladly pay $80 to see you in concert again despite being a broke college student. I really enjoyed Bluefinger and was excited at the idea of you touring for it. There is one problem, I'm 20. You are playing 3, 21+ shows in San Francisco (where I live) and if I was 4 months older I would attend at least 2 of them. Enjoying music has nothing to do with how old you are or consuming alcohol. There are plenty of venues in SF that serve alcohol and allow minors to attend. I think its sad that you would block a significant portion of your audience from seeing you play live.
Sometimes, enjoyment of music has EVERYTHING to do with consuming alcohol. 
I feel your pain. I missed Iggy Pop twice when I was 19. Made it that much better when I finally saw him, though. Don't blame Charles for playing where he's booked--odds are he's not even the one who made the booking...he's GOT to have an agent by this stage in the game. Blame that guy...or blame the clubs...or the local police. But, until then--patience. It's worth the wait.
...plus...he's not coming to St. Louis...so I'm stuck not seeing him at all! And last time he was here, it sold out before I got tickets... So, I'm bitter, too! :) |
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mr.biscuitdoughhead
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1729 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2007 : 08:45:01
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I missed Dino Jr. twice in a row. Ouch.
"How do you like that, Sir Harold?"
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Brank_Flack
* Dog in the Sand *
Canada
1017 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2007 : 19:21:54
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| i'm not sure if this has been mentioned already, but i'm too lazy to read through all this discussion. I've been to many shows where they sell alcohol and let teens in, at the door they ask for ID and if you are old enough they give you a wrist band, if not you get an x on your hand. why cant this just be done everywhere? Its not much of a hassle |
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Jefrey
= Cult of Ray =
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2007 : 19:50:46
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I'd just like to point out that Ian MacKaye actually does drink alcohol occasionally. I don't know what that adds to the argument, but in several interviews and documentaries he has pointed out that he's not straight edge (at least the way it's been co-opted to mean). In fact I believe he's even drinking a beer in one of the docs.
He's chosen to take a stand that has probably cost him a lot of money. Good for him if that's what he wants to do. The artists don't own the clubs and most of the time they don't get to make the rules.
Qu'ils aillent se faire foutre <-- yeah, what he said. |
Edited by - Jefrey on 09/23/2007 22:18:28 |
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Daisy Girl
~ Abstract Brain ~
Belize
5305 Posts |
Posted - 09/23/2007 : 19:03:49
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is it possible for you to stand outside and listen to the show? I heard a lot of shows that way, standing by the back door and listening....it's not as good but it's better than nothing.
bluefinger |
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BLT
> Teenager of the Year <
South Sandwich Islands
4204 Posts |
Posted - 09/23/2007 : 20:28:07
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Once you're 21 you'll be happy they exclude the kids. Shows are better without them.
Knob head. |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 09/23/2007 : 20:32:31
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| to me the more kids the better. it's easier to push your way to the front with a bunch of kids. plus, they're good for stealing lunch money from. it's harder to steal lunch money from the 21-and-over set |
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shineoftheever
> Teenager of the Year <
Canada
4307 Posts |
Posted - 09/23/2007 : 23:26:33
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perhaps ian mackaye only likes younger men? doing all ages gigs surely increases your chances.
The waxworks were an immensely eloquent dissertation on the wonderful ordinariness of mankind. |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6214 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2007 : 00:47:11
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I've been going to Frank's shows since I was 16 and I was allowed to drink beer at all those shows.
That's the thing about Europe, it's the same but with tiny differences.
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
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Jefrey
= Cult of Ray =
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2007 : 16:22:02
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quote:
Originally posted by billgoodman
I've been going to Frank's shows since I was 16 and I was allowed to drink beer at all those shows.
That's the thing about Europe, it's the same but with tiny differences.
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
Example?
Qu'ils aillent se faire foutre <-- yeah, what he said. |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2007 : 16:27:32
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| well you can walk into a movie theater in Amsterdam and buy a beer. and I don't mean in no paper cup or nothing. I'm talking about a glass of beer |
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PixieSteve
> Teenager of the Year <
Poland
4698 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2007 : 17:03:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Jefrey
quote:
Originally posted by billgoodman
I've been going to Frank's shows since I was 16 and I was allowed to drink beer at all those shows.
That's the thing about Europe, it's the same but with tiny differences.
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
Example?
Qu'ils aillent se faire foutre <-- yeah, what he said.
he just gave one
I like to complain |
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Blackhead
- FB Fan -
28 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2007 : 18:05:33
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| Call me crazy, but Frank's done a ton of shows that were under 21. I even took my then 10 year old nephew to a FB show that was being held in a high school auditorium in Palo Alto. Maybe he'll do another record-store set at Amoeba? |
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Brank_Flack
* Dog in the Sand *
Canada
1017 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2007 : 20:26:58
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quote:
Originally posted by floop
well you can walk into a movie theater in Amsterdam and buy a beer. and I don't mean in no paper cup or nothing. I'm talking about a glass of beer
and you know what they call a quarter pounder in france? |
Edited by - Brank_Flack on 09/24/2007 20:27:24 |
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Jefrey
= Cult of Ray =
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 09/25/2007 : 02:48:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Brank_Flack
quote:
Originally posted by floop
well you can walk into a movie theater in Amsterdam and buy a beer. and I don't mean in no paper cup or nothing. I'm talking about a glass of beer
and you know what they call a quarter pounder in france?
Crap that American tourists buy? I saw a MacDonalds in France and I was frankly embarrassed. I went to France to avoid these things...
Qu'ils aillent se faire foutre <-- yeah, what he said. |
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Jefrey
= Cult of Ray =
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 09/25/2007 : 02:49:44
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quote:
Originally posted by PixieSteve
quote:
Originally posted by Jefrey
quote:
Originally posted by billgoodman
I've been going to Frank's shows since I was 16 and I was allowed to drink beer at all those shows.
That's the thing about Europe, it's the same but with tiny differences.
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
Example?
Qu'ils aillent se faire foutre <-- yeah, what he said.
he just gave one
I like to complain
Well yeah, but he was inviting a challenge ;)
Qu'ils aillent se faire foutre <-- yeah, what he said. |
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Jefrey
= Cult of Ray =
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 09/25/2007 : 02:51:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Blackhead
Call me crazy, but Frank's done a ton of shows that were under 21. I even took my then 10 year old nephew to a FB show that was being held in a high school auditorium in Palo Alto. Maybe he'll do another record-store set at Amoeba?
The Cubberly? I got my first FB autograph and backstage meeting at that show. Great show! He was wandering around in the crowd before the show and almost no one noticed.
Qu'ils aillent se faire foutre <-- yeah, what he said. |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6214 Posts |
Posted - 09/25/2007 : 04:50:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Jefrey
quote:
Originally posted by PixieSteve
quote:
Originally posted by Jefrey
quote:
Originally posted by billgoodman
I've been going to Frank's shows since I was 16 and I was allowed to drink beer at all those shows.
That's the thing about Europe, it's the same but with tiny differences.
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
Example?
Qu'ils aillent se faire foutre <-- yeah, what he said.
he just gave one
I like to complain
Well yeah, but he was inviting a challenge ;)
Qu'ils aillent se faire foutre <-- yeah, what he said.
not really, I was quoting Pulp Fiction as was Floop
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
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Topic |
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Hey Frank, whats up with the 21+ Shows?
