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mantaraysallright
- FB Fan -
USA
110 Posts |
 Posted - 09/19/2007 : 18:05:40
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| I've been a fan for well over a year now and saw you when you came to the Fillmore last year and when you opened for Tom Petty. I listen to your music every day and would gladly pay $80 to see you in concert again despite being a broke college student. I really enjoyed Bluefinger and was excited at the idea of you touring for it. There is one problem, I'm 20. You are playing 3, 21+ shows in San Francisco (where I live) and if I was 4 months older I would attend at least 2 of them. Enjoying music has nothing to do with how old you are or consuming alcohol. There are plenty of venues in SF that serve alcohol and allow minors to attend. I think its sad that you would block a significant portion of your audience from seeing you play live. |
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Brank_Flack
* Dog in the Sand *
Canada
1017 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2007 : 19:02:47
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| this brought back the scarring memory of missing him in toronto due to that |
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beersnob
- FB Fan -
USA
28 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2007 : 19:26:53
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A real fan would either get a fake ID, suck off the doorman or apply for a busboy job at said establishment. But you'd rather whine and bitch on the frankblack forum. Go grow a moustache. Or better yet, buy the custome that the six flag dancing old guy wears on his commercials. I'm only half joking.
Seriously get some oldman makeup. That'd work.
Even more seriously, you've never just walked into a place sans ID? If you're only 4 months away, you could pull it off. Just grow some balls dude.
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treetime
- FB Fan -
USA
217 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2007 : 20:26:22
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| It seems to me it is always the artist's choice concerning what kind of environment he wants to play in. But I do remember the days when I would have to miss shows here and there because of being underage. Be patient and missing some shows because of being under 21 is part of the culture. |
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Tiny Team Concerts
- FB Fan -
USA
57 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2007 : 21:14:24
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It's worth noting that when choosing a venue in a particular market there are many more concerns for an artists than the age limit for entry -- plenty of which might not be immediately obvious to the average audience member.
For example, there's the size of the stage, the overall vibe of the room, the amount of money that the club is guaranteeing them to show up, the quality and caliber of the in-house PA and lighting system, whether or not the artist already has a good business relationship with the owners, management, or talent buyer, etc...
One should not assume that FBF is somehow intentionally making it difficult for underage fans to catch his show. Sometimes that's just the luck of the draw.
As you get closer to the magic "age of entry," every 21+ show that you want to see tends to sting a little more. That will pass.
At least you live on the West Coast. I'm 38 and can't see any of the shows on this tour.
--
Tiny Team Concerts
"Good music for nice people" |
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Jefrey
= Cult of Ray =
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2007 : 22:41:56
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Here's your main reason. Most small clubs don't make money off the acts for the most part. They make money off of the booze they sell.
A certain size place that sells booze and knows that the artists' constituency will show up and buy said booze will determine which acts they book.
Cafe Du Nord is a great, intimate venue and has a great vibe - I don't think he was trying to dick over under 21 people, just find a great place to play. I bet there's a whole lot less beurocratic bullshit with a small venue like that as well.
That said, I wonder if he assumes most of his fans are older so it doesn't matter much where he plays?
Qu'ils aillent se faire foutre <-- yeah, what he said.
[/quote] |
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Jefrey
= Cult of Ray =
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2007 : 23:05:12
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7 out of 76 people in the "average age of a FB fan" are under 21. Average age is 32. I'm sure he'd love everyone to come, but sometimes the percentages aren't in your favor.
Qu'ils aillent se faire foutre <-- yeah, what he said. |
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MarshalltheMarsist
- FB Fan -
USA
54 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2007 : 23:25:25
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quote:
Originally posted by beersnob
A real fan would either get a fake ID, suck off the doorman or apply for a busboy job at said establishment. But you'd rather whine and bitch on the frankblack forum. Go grow a moustache. Or better yet, buy the custome that the six flag dancing old guy wears on his commercials. I'm only half joking.
Seriously get some oldman makeup. That'd work.
Even more seriously, you've never just walked into a place sans ID? If you're only 4 months away, you could pull it off. Just grow some balls dude.
Personally, I think if Frank had any balls he would refuse to play clubs that don't allow underage people to see the show. It's not like Frank's hurting (he made a lot of money from e-music); I'm quite sure he could afford to have some standards and some decency towards his audience.
I for one, remember the last time Frank played a show for under-21s, and I felt the same way as the original poster (I was still under 21 at the time).
A certain Ian Mackaye, who has had a lot less relative success than the inimitable Frank Black, refused to play such clubs, because they are unfair to underage fans of the music. If it's not about the music, it's just about selling booze.
In all honestly I am saddened that Frank has reduced himself to being a booze salesman. Maybe he'll do a coors commercial next?
I also find your attitude inappropriate. You just sound like an asshole; way to reflect badly on Frank fans everywhere. If I met you I would definitely punch you in the nose.  |
Edited by - MarshalltheMarsist on 09/19/2007 23:27:25 |
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MarshalltheMarsist
- FB Fan -
USA
54 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2007 : 23:29:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Jefrey
Here's your main reason. Most small clubs don't make money off the acts for the most part. They make money off of the booze they sell.
A certain size place that sells booze and knows that the artists' constituency will show up and buy said booze will determine which acts they book.
Cafe Du Nord is a great, intimate venue and has a great vibe - I don't think he was trying to dick over under 21 people, just find a great place to play. I bet there's a whole lot less beurocratic bullshit with a small venue like that as well.
That said, I wonder if he assumes most of his fans are older so it doesn't matter much where he plays?
Qu'ils aillent se faire foutre <-- yeah, what he said.
It seems this venue does host underage-friendly shows. You guys are digging Frank's hole for him - I love the guy but I'm not afraid to admit the OP has a point here. |
Edited by - MarshalltheMarsist on 09/19/2007 23:29:55 |
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treetime
- FB Fan -
USA
217 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2007 : 23:54:59
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| Marshall, maybe Black Francis prefers playing for a drunk audience??? |
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MarshalltheMarsist
- FB Fan -
USA
54 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2007 : 00:09:21
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| Could be, my dad saw him at the 9:30 club in DC and said Frank seemed a little annoyed; at one point there was silence and the whole club could hear a guy ordering a beer. Frank was like, "Hey, get that guy a beer!" |
Edited by - MarshalltheMarsist on 09/20/2007 02:03:45 |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2007 : 00:19:45
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| Waahhhhhhhhh!! |
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MarshalltheMarsist
- FB Fan -
USA
54 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2007 : 02:04:33
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quote:
Originally posted by darwin
Waahhhhhhhhh!!
Do you need me to get you a handkerchief? Or do you think you can live with a tissue? |
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Czar
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
321 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2007 : 03:53:30
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quote:
Originally posted by MarshalltheMarsist
A certain Ian Mackaye, who has had a lot less relative success than the inimitable Frank Black, refused to play such clubs, because they are unfair to underage fans of the music. If it's not about the music, it's just about selling booze.
This should not qualify as a counter example, Ian Mackaye does not drink.
___________________________
Do you think the Pixies were a brouillon of Black Francis? |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6214 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2007 : 05:54:32
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I am enjoying this conversation without having a real opinion. Rock and Roll is for everybody,
but staying up late, getting drunk, not. or something
as r.pollard said: 21 is the legal age to kill yourself slowily, but 18 is the legal age to die...
(us army perhaps?)
---------------------------
BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
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beersnob
- FB Fan -
USA
28 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2007 : 07:48:48
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[/quote]
I also find your attitude inappropriate. You just sound like an asshole; way to reflect badly on Frank fans everywhere. If I met you I would definitely punch you in the nose.
[/quote]
So Angry. You need to rein that in OJ. Cause you could try, but you'd telegraph it and wind up getting hurt.
Why don't you just take a deep breath and get to a meeting or call your sponsor.
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2007 : 08:12:41
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quote:
Originally posted by MarshalltheMarsist
quote:
Originally posted by darwin
Waahhhhhhhhh!!
Do you need me to get you a handkerchief? Or do you think you can live with a tissue?
Give it to mantaraysallright (misspelled by the way unless he always turns right) |
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PixieSteve
> Teenager of the Year <
Poland
4698 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2007 : 08:22:06
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in 2 months i'll be able to laugh at all those frank black fans too young for 21+ shows. but for now i'll sympathise.
We are all atheists about most of the gods that societies have ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further.
- Richard Dawkins |
Edited by - PixieSteve on 09/20/2007 08:22:33 |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2007 : 10:04:23
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quote:
Originally posted by MarshalltheMarsist
In all honestly I am saddened that Frank has reduced himself to being a booze salesman. Maybe he'll do a coors commercial next?
you act like Frank used to only play non-alcoholic all-ages shoes but now he's lowered himself to playing clubs that sell beer. do you think in the Pixies and early FB he was playing to alot more elementary schools? |
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MarshalltheMarsist
- FB Fan -
USA
54 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2007 : 12:16:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Czar
quote:
Originally posted by MarshalltheMarsist
A certain Ian Mackaye, who has had a lot less relative success than the inimitable Frank Black, refused to play such clubs, because they are unfair to underage fans of the music. If it's not about the music, it's just about selling booze.
This should not qualify as a counter example, Ian Mackaye does not drink.
___________________________
Do you think the Pixies were a brouillon of Black Francis?
Actually it's a good example. That Ian doesn't drink isn't quite the point. Ian doesn't refuse to play clubs that serve alcohol, he refuses to play clubs that won't allow under-21s in. Why? Not because he wants to infringe his straight-edge values on others, but because he can't see any connection between wanting to see live music and drinking alcohol; the two are unrelated and as a musician he is not a beer salesman.
quote:
Originally posted by beersnob
So Angry. You need to rein that in OJ. Cause you could try, but you'd telegraph it and wind up getting hurt.
Why don't you just take a deep breath and get to a meeting or call your sponsor.
You must be a troll. Did I sound angry? You're the one with the bad attitude, but I assure you, you'll know it if I get angry. |
Edited by - MarshalltheMarsist on 09/20/2007 12:17:48 |
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MarshalltheMarsist
- FB Fan -
USA
54 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2007 : 12:24:04
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quote:
Originally posted by floop
quote:
Originally posted by MarshalltheMarsist
In all honestly I am saddened that Frank has reduced himself to being a booze salesman. Maybe he'll do a coors commercial next?
you act like Frank used to only play non-alcoholic all-ages shoes but now he's lowered himself to playing clubs that sell beer. do you think in the Pixies and early FB he was playing to alot more elementary schools?
Who said anything about elementary schools?
Besides, arguing that something was done in the past doesn't make it right now, as I'm sure you realize.
Perhaps I was formerly blinded by my extreme affection for Frank's music, and only now am I able to look at it more objectively, and say "Only an asshole would play 21-only shows, be it with Pixies or alone." |
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MarshalltheMarsist
- FB Fan -
USA
54 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2007 : 12:28:35
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| To be entirely honest, I think that his debate exsists at exists at all is bad enough, regardless of the different opinions. I've been listening to Frank since I was in high school, and I can't help but feel let down when one of my idols does something I find so entirely objectionable - regardless of whether or not it's the first time I happened to notice something that's happened in the past. |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2007 : 12:31:41
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Shocking development: people like to drink when they go out to hear music.
Quit being such a whiny baby and quit winking every time you threaten violence. |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2007 : 12:37:13
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quote:
Originally posted by MarshalltheMarsist
quote:
Originally posted by floop
quote:
Originally posted by MarshalltheMarsist
In all honestly I am saddened that Frank has reduced himself to being a booze salesman. Maybe he'll do a coors commercial next?
you act like Frank used to only play non-alcoholic all-ages shoes but now he's lowered himself to playing clubs that sell beer. do you think in the Pixies and early FB he was playing to alot more elementary schools?
Who said anything about elementary schools?
Besides, arguing that something was done in the past doesn't make it right now, as I'm sure you realize.
Perhaps I was formerly blinded by my extreme affection for Frank's music, and only now am I able to look at it more objectively, and say "Only an asshole would play 21-only shows, be it with Pixies or alone."
you said "it's sad frank has reduced himself" to playing those venues. which seemed to suggest that he used to not play those kinds of venues as much.
only an asshole would play 21-only shows? now you're coming across as the troll . so, does that mean only assholes drink alcohol too?
am i the only one who gets the feeling marshall and beersnob are the same person? |
Edited by - floop on 09/20/2007 12:43:13 |
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starmekitten
-= Forum Pistolera =-
United Kingdom
6370 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2007 : 12:49:47
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marshall and mantaraysallright might be though, same IP it seems.
Idiot. |
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mantaraysallright
- FB Fan -
USA
110 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2007 : 13:00:35
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| Everyone is missing the point. you can serve alcohol AND let minors go to your show. I'll wear some big dorky black X's on my hand all night or whatever I don't care. But when the attitude is a minor won't make us any money because they can't buy alcohol and therefore are worthless to us is totally lame. People like to drink when they hear music? Fine, I do too, I'm not saying people shouldn't drink or be shouldn't be allowed to drink...just the fact that they ARE shouldn't infringe on MY ability to go see some good music. |
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mr.biscuitdoughhead
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1729 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2007 : 13:08:25
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so you are marshall, too?
 "How do you like that, Sir Harold?"
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mantaraysallright
- FB Fan -
USA
110 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2007 : 13:13:19
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| ok to clear the record right now. I WAS in the same house (and therefore had the same IP as Marshall), I AM NOT the same person as marshall. Two people can exist at the same IP...no one is trying to play some childish multiuser spam game here. |
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mr.biscuitdoughhead
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1729 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2007 : 13:14:28
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sorry, i was just messing with you. no need to get all defensive. just sayin.
"How do you like that, Sir Harold?"
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Edited by - mr.biscuitdoughhead on 09/20/2007 13:15:12 |
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mantaraysallright
- FB Fan -
USA
110 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2007 : 13:25:22
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| no worries, I just wanted to make sure everyone was on the same page |
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MarshalltheMarsist
- FB Fan -
USA
54 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2007 : 13:54:41
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quote:
Originally posted by floop
quote:
Originally posted by MarshalltheMarsist
quote:
Originally posted by floop
quote:
Originally posted by MarshalltheMarsist
In all honestly I am saddened that Frank has reduced himself to being a booze salesman. Maybe he'll do a coors commercial next?
you act like Frank used to only play non-alcoholic all-ages shoes but now he's lowered himself to playing clubs that sell beer. do you think in the Pixies and early FB he was playing to alot more elementary schools?
Who said anything about elementary schools?
Besides, arguing that something was done in the past doesn't make it right now, as I'm sure you realize.
Perhaps I was formerly blinded by my extreme affection for Frank's music, and only now am I able to look at it more objectively, and say "Only an asshole would play 21-only shows, be it with Pixies or alone."
you said "it's sad frank has reduced himself" to playing those venues. which seemed to suggest that he used to not play those kinds of venues as much.
only an asshole would play 21-only shows? now you're coming across as the troll . so, does that mean only assholes drink alcohol too?
am i the only one who gets the feeling marshall and beersnob are the same person?
Bother to check my joint date? I joined well before beersnob or mantaray, I just don't post much because this forum is slow. And yes, mantaray is my friend, and I just so happen to agree with him.
Sorry, saying asshole doesn't make me a troll. I'm just stating the way I feel. People can disagree while participating in the same forum, you know.
To be honest I have no idea why you think I'm beersnob, considering he's clearly a troll and I'm bothering to post actual opinions. FWIW I do drink alcohol, on a very regular basis. Also FWIW I'm not saying Frank IS an asshole, I was just suggesting that playing 21-and-over shows is something an asshole would do - an opinion I actually happen to have. That does NOT make me a troll.
I remember how annoyed I was at all the 21-and-over shows Frank played when I was still underage. |
Edited by - MarshalltheMarsist on 09/20/2007 14:00:44 |
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beersnob
- FB Fan -
USA
28 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2007 : 13:59:12
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No.
You're not angry, Ma'am, marshall, manatee or whatever.
Must've just caught you on one of your heavier flow days. Sorry.
You gotta admit the busboy tactic or the oldman makeup could work for the poor kid though.
Also beer don't need no salesmen. It sells itself. So does Grand Mariner, Triplesec and Spanish Cocaine. |
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MarshalltheMarsist
- FB Fan -
USA
54 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2007 : 14:02:12
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quote:
Originally posted by beersnob
No.
You're not angry, Ma'am, marshall, manatee or whatever.
Must've just caught you on one of your heavier flow days. Sorry.
You gotta admit the busboy tactic or the oldman makeup could work for the poor kid though.
Also beer don't need no salesmen. It sells itself. So does Grand Mariner, Triplesec and Spanish Cocaine.
It's amazing how you can combine English words together with English syntax (mostly) and still not actually say anything. Is it avant-garde or something? |
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mr.biscuitdoughhead
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1729 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2007 : 14:02:18
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i miss marcus4realius.
"How do you like that, Sir Harold?"
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2007 : 14:11:21
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quote:
Originally posted by MarshalltheMarsist
Also FWIW I'm not saying Frank IS an asshole, I was just suggesting that playing 21-and-over shows is something an asshole would do - an opinion I actually happen to have. That does NOT make me a troll.
um, that doesn't make sense.
also, you said this:
"Perhaps I was formerly blinded by my extreme affection for Frank's music, and only now am I able to look at it more objectively, and say "Only an asshole would play 21-only shows, be it with Pixies or alone."
which just seems like i'm-going-to-try-and-rile-everyone-up kind of talk. that's all i'm saying marshmellow. i'm sorry i didn't check your join date and i didn't know you sometimes share a household with beersnob (or mantaray?).. |
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Tiny Team Concerts
- FB Fan -
USA
57 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2007 : 14:12:15
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This whole thing is silly.
Local, regional and state laws determine what types of clubs can and cannot let in underage people where alcohol is served.
That depends on many things, most commonly, whether or not the venue in question is a full-service restaurant as well and serves meals instead of just liquor and peanuts.
Marshall, please don't take this the wrong way, but WOW, you're coming off like a real hothead and a self-important one at that.
FBF plays where he wants to play. He's not making a conscious decision to "sell beer" or to exclude people from his shows.
And he's not Ian "my way or the highway" Mackaye, nor should he be expected to be.
He's not Robert Pollard or Paul Westerberg or John Hiatt. He's Frank Black Francis, and in his own unique way, he's probably more generous with his diehard fans than almost any other modern-day rock star/songwriter.
He lets us into his home and into his family through videos and pictures and anecdotes. He plays small, intimate venues when he feels like it. He is often approachable and polite to strangers. He does gregarious radio and internet interviews and allows us to trade his rare broadcasts and live shows. He plays festivals as well, which - while not intimate - are usually ALL-AGES.
He even did that Fabchannel show that everyone around the world could watch for free.
In other words, he's one of the very few GOOD guys in the biz.
You and Manta should please lay off the snark and the attitude. It's you guys who "miss the point." We're all sorry you two can't get into the show, but don't take out your agression and disappointment on FBF.
He simply doesn't deserve it.
--
Tiny Team Concerts
"Good music for nice people" |
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Topic |
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Hey Frank, whats up with the 21+ Shows?
