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coastline
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3111 Posts |
 Posted - 09/11/2007 : 09:47:00
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9/11 was six years ago today. Any thoughts?
(KOK, you're limited to one post per day in this thread.)
 Please pardon me, for these my wrongs. |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
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hammerhands
* Dog in the Sand *
Canada
1594 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2007 : 10:12:04
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Yah, where is my call to tell me to pick up my copy of Bluefinger?
I saw two interesting shows this week, one called The Secret History of 9/11 that detailed the intelligence failures (and reminded me of the incredible story of John O'Neil, and then a show that said that 100,000 people worked on the Manhattan project.
I still went to sleep last night wondering what the day would bring. |
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misleadtheworld
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
1222 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2007 : 11:07:54
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For KOK
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The King Of Karaoke
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3759 Posts |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2007 : 15:34:43
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From www.prisonplanet.com/ (KOK's link)
"Exactly what these "mathematics" entail and why they are more reliable than actual scientific lab tests of WTC steel undertaken by NIST as well as the basic laws of physics and gravity is not fully explained in the article."
From the BBC:
"The findings are to be published in the Journal of Engineering Mechanics."
If the 911 Truth people want the data they need to read the scientific paper; not the newspaper (or YouTube). |
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The King Of Karaoke
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3759 Posts |
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The King Of Karaoke
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3759 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2007 : 15:47:34
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Lets all read it together.
Mechanics of Progressive Collapse: Learning from World Trade Center and Building Demolitions
J. Engrg. Mech., Volume 133, Issue 3, pp. 308-319 (March 2007)
Zdenk P. Bažant,1 F.ASCE and Mathieu Verdure2
1McCormick School Professor and W.P. Murphy Professor of Civil Engineering and Materials Science, Northwestern Univ., 2145 Sheridan Rd., CEE/A135, Evanston, IL 60208. E-mail: z-bazant@northwestern.edu
2Visiting Fellow, Northwestern Univ., 2145 Sheridan Rd., CEE/A135, Evanston, IL 60208; on leave from Ecole Polytechnique, Palaiseau, France.
(Accepted 16 September 2006)
Progressive collapse is a failure mode of great concern for tall buildings, and is also typical of building demolitions. The most infamous paradigm is the collapse of the World Trade Center towers. After reviewing the mechanics of their collapse, the motion during the crushing of one floor (or group of floors) and its energetics are analyzed, and a dynamic one-dimensional continuum model of progressive collapse is developed. Rather than using classical homogenization, it is found more effective to characterize the continuum by an energetically equivalent snap-through. The collapse, in which two phases—crush-down followed by crush-up—must be distinguished, is described in each phase by a nonlinear second-order differential equation for the propagation of the crushing front of a compacted block of accreting mass. Expressions for consistent energy potentials are formulated and an exact analytical solution of a special case is given. It is shown that progressive collapse will be triggered if the total (internal) energy loss during the crushing of one story (equal to the energy dissipated by the complete crushing and compaction of one story, minus the loss of gravity potential during the crushing of that story) exceeds the kinetic energy impacted to that story. Regardless of the load capacity of the columns, there is no way to deny the inevitability of progressive collapse driven by gravity alone if this criterion is satisfied (for the World Trade Center it is satisfied with an order-of-magnitude margin). The parameters are the compaction ratio of a crushed story, the fracture of mass ejected outside the tower perimeter, and the energy dissipation per unit height. The last is the most important, yet the hardest to predict theoretically. It is argued that, using inverse analysis, one could identify these parameters from a precise record of the motion of floors of a collapsing building. Due to a shroud of dust and smoke, the videos of the World Trade Center are only of limited use. It is proposed to obtain such records by monitoring (with millisecond accuracy) the precise time history of displacements in different modes of building demolitions. The monitoring could be accomplished by real-time telemetry from sacrificial accelerometers, or by high-speed optical camera. The resulting information on energy absorption capability would be valuable for the rating of various structural systems and for inferring their collapse mode under extreme fire, internal explosion, external blast, impact or other kinds of terrorist attack, as well as earthquake and foundation movements.
©2007 ASCE
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MIT Engineer Says WTC Demolished http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8XToX7aSdg
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8129564295534231536&q=911+mysteries&total=696&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0 |
Edited by - The King Of Karaoke on 09/11/2007 15:48:01 |
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The King Of Karaoke
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3759 Posts |
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The King Of Karaoke
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3759 Posts |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2007 : 15:53:34
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quote:
Originally posted by The King Of Karaoke
Do you understand that this theory has already been debunked by NIST? They are just rehashing.
I understand that science is composed of different people having different expertise and using different methods. NIST may have one conclusion probably based upon empirically simulating the conditions. This new author used mathematical models and came to a different conclusion. One experiment doesn't mean that all subsequent experiments are redundant or wrong or that the issue is settled.
I didn't see where in the abstract that you posted that the "pancake" theory was shown to be wrong, but I'm not an engineer. |
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The King Of Karaoke
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3759 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2007 : 16:03:26
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I'm sorry Darwin, I respect you and I'm not going to argue with you on this anymore. I've provided plenty of material for you to look at. Take a look for the heck of it.
Mainstream corporate media is owned AND CONTROLLED by the people that profit from war.
Excerpts from --
Rockefeller and the Global Media Censors
See also Rockefeller & Global Mind Control, Clinton Global Initiative & The Aspen Institute
"The Invisible Hand of the Media" at http://www.internetwks.com/pauling/lie/story.html
"George Orwell's prophetic world where "ignorance is strength" no longer seems a prophetic forecast, but a present reality....
"Carl Jensen's assessment of Adolph Hitler's philosophy of information control--
"More than half a century ago Hitler said the masses take a long time to understand and remember, thus it is necessary to repeat the message time and time and time again. The public must be conditioned to accept the claims that are made...no matter how outrageous or false those claims might be." Censored 1996. ....
"'If, however, the public does not receive all the information it needs to make informed decisions,' Jensen claims, "then some form of news blackout is taking place... some issues are overlooked (what we call 'censored') and other issues are over-covered (what we call 'junk food news').'Why does a boxer's bitten ear receive local and nationwide coverage, but we are never told about presidential Executive Orders that affect the entire nation?' ...
"Aldous Huxley in his book, Brave New World, observes, 'The greatest triumphs of propaganda have been accomplished, not by doing something, but by refraining from doing. Great is truth, but still greater, from a practical point of view, is silence about truth.'...
"'Those who manipulate the organized habits and opinions of the masses constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country', wrote Edward Bernays, assistant to William Paley, founder of CBS. '...We are dominated by a relatively small number of persons.... '
"World bankers, by pulling a few simple levers that control the flow of money, can make or break entire economies. By controlling press releases of economic strategies that shape national trends, the power elite are able to not only tighten their stranglehold on this nation's economic structure, but can extend that control world wide. Those possessing such power would logically want to remain in the background, invisible to the average citizen.
Expressing that very sentiment, David Rockefeller, founder of the aforementioned Trilateral Commission in June of 1991, addressed a meeting of that organization. 'We are grateful to The Washington Post, The New York Times, Time Magazine,' Rockefeller told them, 'and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost forty years. It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subject to the bright lights of publicity during those years. But, the world is now more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national auto-determination [read as 'democracy'] practiced in past centuries.'
"'A handful of us,' wrote Walter Cronkite, again from his introduction to Censored 1996, 'determine what will be on the evening news broadcasts, or, for that matter, in the New York Times or Washington Post or Wall Street Journal.... Indeed it is a handful of us with this awesome power....And those [news stories] available to us already have been culled and re-culled by persons far outside our control.'"
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MIT Engineer Says WTC Demolished http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8XToX7aSdg
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8129564295534231536&q=911+mysteries&total=696&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0 |
Edited by - The King Of Karaoke on 09/11/2007 16:09:25 |
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coastline
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3111 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2007 : 16:14:16
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quote:
Originally posted by The King Of Karaoke
Mainstream corporate media is owned AND CONTROLLED by the people that profit from war.
Hey, asshole. It's people who profit from war, not that.
Please pardon me, for these my wrongs. |
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kathryn
~ Selkie Bride ~
Belgium
15320 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2007 : 16:20:56
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Coasty, can you make editorial suggestions without calling people names, please?
the cure make me want to die, but in a good way -- mr.biscuitdoughhead
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2007 : 16:21:13
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So, anything you don't believe is false because the media is owned by rich people. How convenient and full-proof. The guy that wrote the paper isn't owned by rich people (or you probably think he is).
Tit for Tat. YouTube is owned by Google, a huge corporation, therefore I won't believe anything on YouTube. |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2007 : 16:24:58
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| "Can't respond. Circuits full. Logic melting interface. Fact? Fact? Post! Post! Big font! Big font! Rockefeller! Bold! Help me! Hitler! Link! Link! Liiiiiinnnnnkkkkkkk!!!!" |
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TRANSMARINE
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
2002 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2007 : 16:27:35
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Xtube is better anyway. When it works.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
His name is Dalton. He's got a degree in philosophy.
-bRIAN |
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The King Of Karaoke
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3759 Posts |
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The King Of Karaoke
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3759 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2007 : 18:00:57
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quote:
Originally posted by darwin
So, anything you don't believe is false because the media is owned by rich people. How convenient and full-proof. The guy that wrote the paper isn't owned by rich people (or you probably think he is).
Tit for Tat. YouTube is owned by Google, a huge corporation, therefore I won't believe anything on YouTube.
No he's just controlled by rich people. Just like you.
Pay attention.
Paul Craig Roberts, former top Reagan official, once again questions 9/11
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Craig_Roberts
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article18353.htm
But when we come to the explanation of the collapse of the Twin Towers, the official story lacks even a remote possibility of being true. Architects, engineers and physicists know that powerfully constructed steel buildings do not suddenly collapse at free-fall or near-free-fall speed simply because they were impacted by airliners and experienced short-lived, low intensity and limited fires.
Physicists also know that there was not enough gravitational energy to pulverize massive concrete into fine dust, to cut massive steel beams into appropriate lengths to be loaded and removed on trucks, and to eject dust and steel beams hundreds of yards horizontally. Physicists know that if intense fire were present throughout the towers sufficient to cause steel to weaken and suddenly collapse, such fires would not have left unburned and unscorched hundreds of thousands of pieces of paper, which floated all over lower Manhattan.
Physicists have raised unanswered questions about the official explanation's neglect of the known laws of physics. Recently, Dr. Crockett Grabbe, a Caltech trained applied physicist at the University of Iowa, observed: "Applying two basic principles, conservation of energy and conservation of momentum, the government explanation quickly unravels. NIST conspicuously ignored these principles in their reports. NIST also ignored the observed twisting of the top 34 floors of the South Tower before it toppled down. This twisting clearly violates the conservation of both linear and angular momentum unless a large external force caused it. Where the massive amounts of energy came from that were needed to cause the complete collapse of the intact parts below for each tower, when their tops were in virtual free fall, is not answered in NIST's numerous volumes of study."
Some of NIST's own scientists are questioning its reports. Dr. James Quintiere, former chief of the fire science division of the National Institute of Standards and Technology, recently said that "the official conclusion that NIST arrived at is questionable" and called for an independent review of NIST's investigation into the collapses of the WTC towers.
Quintiere has called attention to many problems with NIST's investigation and reports: the absence of a timeline, failure to explain the collapse of WTC 7, the spoliation of the evidence of a fire scene, reliance on questionable computer models, the absence of any evidence for the existence of temperatures NIST predicts as necessary for failure of the steel and a Commerce Department legal structure that instead of trying to find the facts "did the opposite and blocked everything."
On Aug. 27, 2007, a prominent member of the National Academy of Sciences and recipient of the National Medal of Science, Dr. Lynn Margulis, dismissed the official account of 9-11 as a "fraud" and called for a new, thorough and impartial investigation.
On Sept. 5, 2007, U.S. Navy Top Gun fighter pilot and veteran airline pilot Ralph Kolstad said that the flight maneuvers attributed to the 9-11 hijackers are beyond his flight skills. "Something stinks to high heaven," declared Kolstad.
When faced with disturbing events, the Romans asked a question, "Cui bono?" Who benefits? This question was conspicuously absent from the official investigation.
Who are the beneficiaries of 9-11? The answer is: the military-security complex, which has accumulated tens of billions of dollars in profits; U.S. oil companies, which hope to get their hands on Iraqi and perhaps Iranian oil; the Republican Party, which saved a vulnerable newly elected president, George W. Bush, viewed by many as illegitimately elected by one vote of the Supreme Court, by wrapping him in the flag as "war president"; the Republican Federalist Society, which used 9-11 to achieve its goal of concentrating power in the executive; Vice President Dick Cheney and the neoconservatives, who used the "new Pearl Harbor" to implement their "Project for a New American Century" and extend American hegemony over the Middle East; and right-wing Israeli Zionists, who have successfully used American blood and treasure to eliminate obstacles to Israeli territorial expansion.
In addition to American troops and Iraqi and Afghan civilian casualties, a casualty of the neoconservative "war on terror" is the civil liberties that protect Americans from tyranny. President Bush and his corrupt Department of Justice (sic) have declared our constitutional protections to be null and void at the whim of the executive.
The greatest benefactors of 9-11 are the authoritarian personalities that John Dean says have taken over the Republican Party.
------------------
MIT Engineer Says WTC Demolished http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8XToX7aSdg
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8129564295534231536&q=911+mysteries&total=696&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0 |
Edited by - The King Of Karaoke on 09/11/2007 20:05:31 |
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Broken Face
-= Forum Pistolero =-
USA
5155 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2007 : 20:21:19
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I was in NYC tonight, and it was a bit surreal to think that it was 6 years since that happened. However the theories may differ, i think we can all agree that it was a pretty fucking surreal and scary day for most of us in the US, especially those of us who had friends/family nearby.
And speaking of xtube, someone showed me a link on a porn site called redtube of a dog jerking itself off. In my opinion, watching that today is my way of not letting the terrorists win.
- Brian |
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The King Of Karaoke
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3759 Posts |
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danjersey
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
2792 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2007 : 21:02:50
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"I have a mouse and he has'nt got a house I don't know why I call him Gerald,
Hes getting rather old but hes a good mouse".
BOOM BOOM
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jimmy
= Cult of Ray =
USA
876 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2007 : 21:48:15
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danjersey, I'm glad to see you back on the forum more lately. I've missed your posts. Anything new? Any problems that I could maybe help with- "Ask Jimmy" is still in business.
check out my friend's paintings at http://myspace.com/landspeedsong |
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kathryn
~ Selkie Bride ~
Belgium
15320 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2007 : 03:54:20
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coasty, just for kicks, what was your original intent with this thread before you boys resorted to macho silliness?
the cure make me want to die, but in a good way -- mr.biscuitdoughhead
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Cheeseman1000
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Iceland
8201 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2007 : 04:52:57
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| I pine for Erebus' more erudite right-wing moments. |
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coastline
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3111 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2007 : 04:56:57
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quote:
Originally posted by kathryn
coasty, just for kicks, what was your original intent with this thread before you boys resorted to macho silliness?
the cure make me want to die, but in a good way -- mr.biscuitdoughhead
That's a strange question, Kathryn. Same intent as all other threads: start a discussion. It was 9/11 yesterday, so I figured it was on people's minds and they might want to empty said minds onto this board. Why do you start threads?
Please pardon me, for these my wrongs. |
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hammerhands
* Dog in the Sand *
Canada
1594 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2007 : 05:22:40
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I only start a new thread when I can't shoehorn a topic that I want to broach in an existing thread.
For example I have this question, I saw Stranger Than Fiction the other week and I was stunned by the song Whole Wide World by Wreckless Eric. I did a little research and I haven't found anything else by this artist that I like. Can someone recommend an album or some Ryko type compilation containing this?
You would ALMOST have to start a thread for such question! |
Edited by - hammerhands on 09/12/2007 05:23:29 |
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kathryn
~ Selkie Bride ~
Belgium
15320 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2007 : 05:36:56
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hammer, sounds fascinating. start a thread!
coasty, i just meant, did you have anything on your mind specific to 9/11?
the cure make me want to die, but in a good way -- mr.biscuitdoughhead
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cassandra is
> Teenager of the Year <
France
4233 Posts |
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Homers_pet_monkey
= Official forum monkey =
United Kingdom
17125 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2007 : 05:53:00
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quote:
Originally posted by hammerhands
For example I have this question, I saw Stranger Than Fiction the other week and I was stunned by the song Whole Wide World by Wreckless Eric. I did a little research and I haven't found anything else by this artist that I like. Can someone recommend an album or some Ryko type compilation containing this?
You would ALMOST have to start a thread for such question!
I downloaded loads of his stuff after watching that film. I have since played Whole Wide World in my DJ sets, but I haven't found time to listen to much of the other stuff.
I suspect this may be his best song.
 I'd walk her everyday, into a shady place
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coastline
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3111 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2007 : 06:05:17
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quote:
Originally posted by kathryn
hammer, sounds fascinating. start a thread!
coasty, i just meant, did you have anything on your mind specific to 9/11?
the cure make me want to die, but in a good way -- mr.biscuitdoughhead
Admittedly, I should have thought to pull up an old thread.
Please pardon me, for these my wrongs. |
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kathryn
~ Selkie Bride ~
Belgium
15320 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2007 : 06:33:58
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Even friends who lived close to the towers and went thru 9/11 are sick of hearing about it and talking about it. I know I am.
the cure make me want to die, but in a good way -- mr.biscuitdoughhead
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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2007 : 07:19:26
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It was disturbing (although not shocking) watching a show yesterday on the dust and air at ground zero and how sick people now are from it and how poorly the EPA handled it.
__________
Fuck off I got work to do. |
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PixieSteve
> Teenager of the Year <
Poland
4698 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2007 : 07:32:15
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quote:
Originally posted by kathryn
Even friends who lived close to the towers and went thru 9/11 are sick of hearing about it and talking about it. I know I am.
the cure make me want to die, but in a good way -- mr.biscuitdoughhead
i'm sick of hearing it too, constantly repeating itself... 0.818181818181818181818181818181818181...
We are all atheists about most of the gods that societies have ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further.
- Richard Dawkins |
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Broken Face
-= Forum Pistolero =-
USA
5155 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2007 : 08:13:00
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Nice math joke, Steve.
- Brian |
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coastline
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3111 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2007 : 08:26:34
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Kathryn, when I started this thread, I was hoping for a truly outstanding math joke to come of it. I'm happy to say that PixieSteve has posted just the thing.
Please pardon me, for these my wrongs. |
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9/11
