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The King Of Karaoke
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3759 Posts |
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Daisy Girl
~ Abstract Brain ~
Belize
5305 Posts |
 Posted - 09/13/2004 : 19:55:51
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| very cool... i just wish the could have gotten a quote that they're hiding Osama and know where he's been all along. |
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Daisy Girl
~ Abstract Brain ~
Belize
5305 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2004 : 20:59:41
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This is better than Farenheit 9/11.
My opinion of Bush has sunk to new lows. What is going on with this neo conservitism? It should be called out for what it is-- Neo Nazism. My American relatives faught to the death against facists like these in WWII.
Anyone want to join me in being a neo liberal???
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Edited by - Daisy Girl on 09/13/2004 21:15:43 |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2004 : 22:02:59
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It's really too bad that wasn't done better. Some of the people they chose to speak, I mean, come on... she's a physicist... why is she talking as an authority on politics and the Bush regime. I find it hard to believe that anyone thinks they can persuade the die-hard right wing Americans with what amounts to the left-wing equivalent of the right-wing propaganda that has been spoon fed to America since 9/11.
That said, it makes me sad that so many are taken in by the right-wing propaganda machine, by the government that, at least as an outsider, is so blatant in its intentions that it seems a wonder to me that so many follow and would vote for more of this that the result of the upcoming election is even a question. It makes me wonder at the media whose desire to secure the highest ratings is so high as to override their duty as journalists to purveyors of information to provide the truth.
It makes me wonder just how great the ratio of lemmings to free thinkers really is. And wonder where all these NRA activists who claim their right to bear arms to protect against corrupt governments are hiding out. For once, I think they may have been on to something...
By the way, I wouldn't be surprised to see either of the following as the election date draws near:
1) Terror levels at their highest possible status.
2) Either an attack, "reliable intelligence" that an attack is planned, or, perhaps most likely, "evidence" that an attack was to come and was thwarted by the Bush administration. Call me a conspiracy theorist if you like, say I'm a paranoid skeptic. Just remember these words when election day draws near. Large numbers of Americans (most present company excluded) have proven themselves willing to be manipulated by such obvious gestures in the past. Why not do so again? Next stop: Iran.
 "Join the Cult of Frank 2.0 / And you'll be enlightened (free for 1.x members)" |
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twist
- FB Fan -
USA
191 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2004 : 22:43:45
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It is amazing the extent to which too many people think it's patriotic to turn your brain off for god and country and just react from the gut. There are great articles in the most recent Harpers - about the right wing propaganda mill steamrolling over a too complacent left and in Atlantic a great article about how Bush gave Osama over a month to skidaddle and other very obvious stuff.
Actually changing people's minds is a bitch when being right and having facts doesn't count. |
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Daisy Girl
~ Abstract Brain ~
Belize
5305 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2004 : 12:36:01
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Twist and Frank, I enjoyed reading your astute comments. Sadly, I agree that 99% of this country are lemmings and they will vote to re-elect Bush.
What scared me about the movie is the long-term strategy launched by the "neo-conservatives"... like one of the respondents pointed out this model weakens our US economy as as a result, the global economy. I also enjoyed the point that Bush, W, and that elite posse have been educated that empire building such as what they are pursuing only has at best short-term benefits to the ruling elite.
It truly reminds me of the egoist linked plans of domination by Hitler and Napoleon.
Honestly, what I don't understand they don't focus on the true issues such as supporting the development of new industries such as biotech, nano tech and stem cell research-- our economy and people need growth not a fascist regime that will and has already crumbled The Constitution and violated the rights and killed thousands of innocent people.
Also, it comes as no surprise how unsupportive the Bush administration is in terms of developing alternate fuel sources for cars and our petroleum-based society due to the economic interests of him and his family. Such a move would not only be great for the environment, it would also generate thousands of new jobs here in the US. http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/energy/
Every day, it is harder for me to call myself an American due to the Fascist nature of the Bush administration and his neo-conservative power posse. I get scared more and more each day of what the future will bring for me and my family.
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Edited by - Daisy Girl on 09/14/2004 12:40:13 |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2004 : 14:15:05
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Glad to see another Harper's reader here, twist. What a great magazine.
quote:
Originally posted by twist
Actually changing people's minds is a bitch when being right and having facts doesn't count.
Your last sentence sums it up for me. I don't even have the energy to debate anymore, and what's the point, when it's a GD good-cop bad-cop puppet show? |
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Erebus
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1834 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2004 : 14:59:57
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quote:
Originally posted by apl4eris
Glad to see another Harper's reader here, twist. What a great magazine.
Used to read Harper's. Given the praise, I'm surprised no one has mentioned Lapham's most recent Harper's essay which hit newstands the week PRIOR to the Republican convention, complete with characterization and slamming of the speeches which had not been delivered yet, and probably had not been written when Harper's went to press. So embarassing that anyone with inkling of honor, which excludes Lapham, would certainly retire from public life:
Media 'Con Game': Predetermined Storylines
By Nick Schulz; Aug 31, 2004
http://www.techcentralstation.com/083104E.html
NEW YORK -- Harper's magazine editor Lewis Lapham is being appropriately mocked for a major pre-GOP-convention boner. In the September issue of his magazine, which has been on newsstands for over a week, Lapham writes about the "Republican propaganda mill" and the GOP convention:
"The speeches in Madison Square Garden affirmed the great truths now routinely preached from the pulpits of Fox News and the Wall Street Journal -- government the problem, not the solution; the social contract a dead letter; the free market the answer to every maiden's prayer -- and while listening to the hollow rattle of the rhetorical brass and tin, I remembered the question that [Richard] Hofstadter didn't stay to answer. How did a set of ideas both archaic and bizarre make its way into the center ring of the American political circus?"
That's right, Lapham wrote about the GOP convention speeches before anyone even stepped to the podium. Lapham has apologized for what he's calling a "rhetorical invention," use of "poetic license," and a "mistake."
But the only "mistake" Lapham made is in revealing for all to see what has long been known by anyone who pays attention to the news: the major media routinely bring to their coverage of significant political events a predetermined storyline -- you might want to call it a "Lapham". Facts that undermine the storyline are ignored or explained away as aberrations to The Truth. For the editor of Harper's and other establishment press figures, it really makes no difference to them what will be said at Madison Square Garden because the Laphams are already set, loaded in the scribblers' word processors and television anchor tele-prompters and ready to go.
[end of article excerpt]
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2004 : 15:11:57
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I'm glad someone finally got caught in the act of doing this. This is how all the media has been operating for years.
"Join the Cult of Frank 2.0 / And you'll be enlightened (free for 1.x members)" |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2004 : 15:41:07
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The real question is: Did his construct prove his point?
On the side, I think it's amazing that those in an uproar believe they are capable of reading Lapham's mind and determining his motives. Do they really think he believes Harper's readers are so stupid as to think it was anything other than a construct to prove a salient point? If he does, then he is in the wrong business, and it's the self-righteous and assuming critics that truly have psychic abilities. |
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harringk
- FB Fan -
USA
202 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2004 : 16:45:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Daisy Girl
Every day, it is harder for me to call myself an American due to the Fascist nature of the Bush administration and his neo-conservative power posse.
I'm sure they'll welcome you with open arms in Canada or France. |
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n/a
deleted
4894 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2004 : 17:23:52
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quote:
Originally posted by harringk
quote:
Originally posted by Daisy Girl
Every day, it is harder for me to call myself an American due to the Fascist nature of the Bush administration and his neo-conservative power posse.
I'm sure they'll welcome you with open arms in Canada or France.
And the devil has a toasty spot reserved for your ignorant soul, keep diggin my friend you must be nearly there
the room smelled like cupids gym
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harringk
- FB Fan -
USA
202 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2004 : 18:34:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Tre
And the devil has a toasty spot reserved for your ignorant soul
Wow, I must've really gotten under your skin Tre, how very mean-spirited and judgemental of you. No need to worry about my soul though, my sins have been forgiven and I'm not the one deliberatly killing innocent people in the name of God. |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2004 : 18:44:37
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It was mean-spirited of her, yes, but you are hardly in a position to be judging such things. Could we keep political debates civilized... just because you categorically disagree with each other is no reason to be mudslinging - and I'm talking primarily about the back in forth in the other thread. We're all intelligent people here and I think that we should at least appreciate that others must have some reason for the opinions they have.
Thanks.
"Join the Cult of Frank 2.0 / And you'll be enlightened (free for 1.x members)" |
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SpudBoy
= Cult of Ray =
Equatorial Guinea
649 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2004 : 18:54:40
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I took Lapham's essay as a preemptive strike on the RNC, to prove a point that they were a predictable lot and would fulfill their individual roles in the chess game. I thought it was pretty insightful to stir up some shit like that.
Go here for good old fashioned gumshoe muckraking: http://www.gregpalast.com
This guy has been blackballed by the american press and works for the BBC now. Interesting character. Do some research before you criticize too heavily (although I would like it if he stuck to less editorializing - the facts are scary enough).
*festoon* |
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Daisy Girl
~ Abstract Brain ~
Belize
5305 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2004 : 23:13:36
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quote:
Originally posted by harringk
quote:
Originally posted by Daisy Girl
Every day, it is harder for me to call myself an American due to the Fascist nature of the Bush administration and his neo-conservative power posse.
I'm sure they'll welcome you with open arms in Canada or France.
I was actually born in Canada... so hopefully they'll take me back.:) |
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n/a
deleted
4894 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2004 : 03:42:01
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at one in the morning after weeks of virtually no sleep I do get a little mean, but it is pretty hard to play civilised with the closed of ears.
'sides, I don't believe in God, I don't believe in the devil and I reckon Hell must be living under the bush administration so harringk'll prolly like it
the room smelled like cupids gym
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kathryn
~ Selkie Bride ~
Belgium
15320 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2004 : 10:45:37
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KoK, your three threads rock, dude.
Bush will win.
Mr. Kathryn and I are seriously thinking of moving ... either Amsterdam or Montreal.
I still believe in the excellent joy of the Frank |
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offerw
* Dog in the Sand *
South Africa
1264 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2004 : 10:57:18
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Kathryn just make sure there are good pools wherever you are moving to.
wilhelm |
Edited by - offerw on 09/15/2004 11:00:05 |
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kathryn
~ Selkie Bride ~
Belgium
15320 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2004 : 11:05:36
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Ha! Wilhelm, you've got my number, as they say. I know of a great pool in Montreal and, believe me, that factors into the equation. Some friends live in South Africa and told me of some amazing pools...virtually abandoned and tottally extravagant ones.
I still believe in the excellent joy of the Frank |
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offerw
* Dog in the Sand *
South Africa
1264 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2004 : 11:41:56
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A few amazing pools yes, also some amazingly stupid politicians. No matter where you're moving to, the idiots are everywhere.
wilhelm |
Edited by - offerw on 09/15/2004 11:42:57 |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2004 : 11:46:56
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I was just going to mention that, offerw.
A legislative debate is being held over instituting Sharia Law in Ontario, as certain biblically-interpretted traditional Jewish and Christian religious law is already being allowed (by request) for small court issues such as divorce, small claims, etc.:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/3599264.stm |
Edited by - apl4eris on 09/15/2004 11:47:35 |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2004 : 12:36:45
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quote:
Originally posted by apl4eris
I was just going to mention that, offerw.
A legislative debate is being held over instituting Sharia Law in Ontario, as certain biblically-interpretted traditional Jewish and Christian religious law is already being allowed (by request) for small court issues such as divorce, small claims, etc.:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/3599264.stm
I hadn't heard that, Jen, but it'll never pass here. The Charter of Rights & Freedoms overrules such things, and while we promote a multicultural society where you are free to follow your own beliefs, this stops and has always stopped when doing so tramples the rights of others. I see no reason that anyone could possibly consider that women's rights should be trampled because of Islamic beliefs anymore than I believe that a plane full of people should be flown into a tower full of people for 'religious' reasons.
That said, there are idiots, but this sounds like a lawyer's crusade for publicity as opposed to a political movement. It sounds a lot more like journalistic boredom than potential reality, too. I hope.
Precedent is a really crappy way to run a legal system as it essentially ignores that every scenario has its own quirks.
-EDIT: My bad, they do end up saying most of the things I've said here in the article, which I realized upon a reread. Solid BBC journalism.
"Join the Cult of Frank 2.0 / And you'll be enlightened (free for 1.x members)" |
Edited by - Cult_Of_Frank on 09/15/2004 12:44:06 |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2004 : 12:48:30
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Sorry for the tangent, KoK.
I hope you're right too, CoF. What blows my mind is that Ontario already allowed specifically religious interpretation of law for certain people, and another sectarian law for others. You can't get much more slippery slope than that, IMHO.
But then again, it's pretty thinly veiled this side of the border as well. As soon as the curtain is lifted (like in the Alabama 10 Commandments case), people freak the hell out, but it's been under our noses all along. It's just one set of "sectarian" laws with religious morals and ethics at their foundation that is distributed across the board here. |
Edited by - apl4eris on 09/15/2004 12:49:29 |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2004 : 13:44:34
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It's a social experiment that could go awry, to be sure, but it's working better than expected so far. Basically, everyone is subject to the same basic laws and then the sentencing/judging is done within those communities except for serious crimes. I'm not sure I'm for it, but I'm willing to see how it plays out before I decide against it.
All of Canada already has this issue with so called "native" (I hate this term, I'm as native to this land as they are, and who are they to suggest otherwise) Canadians, and it's working better than expected, though this seems to me more based on race than religious beliefs, which I am against. After all, there are plenty of religions among the indigineous tribes.
That said, I'm pretty against the way we've handled most of the things related to 'natives', but that's a whole other cookie...
"Join the Cult of Frank 2.0 / And you'll be enlightened (free for 1.x members)" |
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VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2004 : 18:52:27
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quote:
It is amazing the extent to which too many people think it's patriotic to turn your brain off for god and country and just react from the gut.
Yeah, especially in a country where we're supposed to have freedom of speech and thought. People are stupid.
Brick is red, and Hitler's dead. Hang me! |
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Newo
~ Abstract Brain ~
Spain
2674 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2004 : 03:45:01
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If our countries really were free, it would be patently obvious and there would be no need to keep repeating the fact we are: free world/market/enterprise yada yada rar rar raar. Land of the Fee, Home of the Slave.
--
Jódete, tío,
Que se joda tu hermana,
Que se joda tu hermano,
Que se joda tu madre,
Que se joda tu tía,
¡Porque soy policia!
Que se jodas, currante,
Que se joda tu perro,
Que se joda tu hijo,
Que se joda tu amante,
No me pidas razónes,
Soy el Hombre ¡cojones! |
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Topic |
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9/11 Fear, and the Selling of American Empire
