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Newo
~ Abstract Brain ~
Spain
2674 Posts |
 Posted - 02/03/2007 : 08:19:42
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I know there already exists a topic about the GRAW2 soundtrack Stooges song but my opinion feels to have nothing to do with the consensus formed by the posts in that thread (save for that of Danjersey) so a note to say haaaaaaang on: Frank Black has made a soundtrack for kids to pretend to be marines running around killing people to? shit I know he's got a family but does he need the loot that badly?
Marines are trained on video games like this one to prepare them for when they get flown out to some farflung country to bomb and shoot people; like we don't have enough bloodshed on this planet that kids can spend their Saturday afternoon honing their homicidal skills in front of a monitor.
What it comes down to is having relations with an enterprise of that nature is Frank's decision and therefore none of my business - the flipside of that is I will say what I do or don't want to be a part of, and that guy will not see another cent from me for his recordings or his shows.
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Gravy boat! Stay in the now! |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6214 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2007 : 08:26:57
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I understand your opinion completely. However, there's no clear relation between watching violent movies or playing violent games and acting out violence. Scientists are debating about that since the invention of film. As an artist I don't know if I would lend my work to such games. Banning the artist is a good way to free your mind, but a lot of what we consume, wether it's chocolate or it's reading a book, has some tie to corruption and in the end violence.
Still, you've made me think about this move in Frank's career and I don't know what my opinion is,exactly
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God save the Noisies |
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Born to Lose
- FB Fan -
USA
91 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2007 : 11:18:34
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| Is it really that big a deal? He just did a song for a video game trailer. Its not like he is making the soundtrack to a Manchurian Candidate style brainwashing machine. |
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Carl
- A 'Fifth' Catholic -
Ireland
11546 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2007 : 11:40:34
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| The thought occured to me too, but it really is just a video game, and as anti-warmongering and liberal as I'm sure he is, I don't think Frank had to get into some big moral dilemma about it. Actually, I was over in a friend's house playing Star Wars-Empire At War (which I'm sure the army isn't using to train Jedi Knights), and we kind of jokingly broached the subject of games-as-marine-makers. I have to admit, I feel a little uncomfortable about these kind of games too, though. |
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Grotesque
= Cult of Ray =
France
777 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2007 : 13:32:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Carl
The thought occured to me too, but it really is just a video game, and as anti-warmongering and liberal as I'm sure he is, I don't think Frank had to get into some big moral dilemma about it. Actually, I was over in a friend's house playing Star Wars-Empire At War (which I'm sure the army isn't using to train Jedi Knights), and we kind of jokingly broached the subject of games-as-marine-makers. I have to admit, I feel a little uncomfortable about these kind of games too, though.
Playing war is somthing the kids use to do long before the first video game was made. And now this kind of game is by far the most popular (as i am writing this in the cyber, there are some 10 years old kids playing in red and one of them shouts "Did you see that ? I just put three bullets in his eye!"). Of course the problem is much deeper, inside human societies, and mostly we dont have a lot of reflexion and willness about our own violence. People like Martin Scorsese or Iggy Pop based 80 per cent of their artistic work on this very theme. I think ANY catarsis of violence is good because it shows something dangerous before it actually kills someone. But if you do nothing about it and things turns out bad, yodont pretend you didnt know: Iggy, Martin, and the video games told you many times. |
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Erebus
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1834 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2007 : 13:33:45
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I too understand what you mean Owen, though from the opposite perspective. I pitched a fit online when I found out Liz Phair was doing benefits for John Kerry, and then there’s the Franken intro to Atlantis. I haven’t listened to Chrissie Hynde or Patti Smith for years, over their comments on Bush and Iraq. But I have come to think that nothing could put me off my Frank, Liz, or any number of artists I like, while for Hynde, Smith, and others it’s most likely gone for good. When I hear them, well, I hear them. I know Tanya Donelly and Kristin Hersh are anti-Bush/War, but I still love ‘em anyway. I'm not sure why I'm not more of an absolutist about this. In part it has to do with the degree of venom and vitriol some like Hynde have shown, but it's also because I don't have the hard line within myself that I would have expected. Guess I guilty of some compartmentalization. We are not totally rationally consistent beings.
I wouldn’t read too much into the game track just yet however. It’s probably not that big a deal for Frank, but then I can see how that alone could be troubling to those who think it has to be a big deal. My own guess, and that is all it is, is that Frank is a left-of-center pragmatist, as opposed to an idealist when it comes to politics. I suspect he opposes Bush and the war, but probably is what people like myself would term “realistic” when it comes to the necessity of a military. And I would think he is more capitalist than socialist, but more of a welfare socialist than I could ever be. Of course he is acutely sensitive to human rights issues.
Anyway, just wanted to jump in on this because I can empathize, though from the opposite pole.
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Grotesque
= Cult of Ray =
France
777 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2007 : 14:21:43
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| That the good thing about pragmatism: you wont say any crap about something you dont really know or are involved in. You dont define yourself, you just live and your opinons depend of what you really saw by yourself. Then if you walk in the streets of any city of the third of fourth world, you get conected to a social reality that no politician or TV news could never learn you. |
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mixedbizz
- FB Fan -
USA
176 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2007 : 15:22:27
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| And Frogger encourages kids to play in traffic! |
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danjersey
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
2792 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2007 : 16:09:32
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| My reaction came more from the nature of the game and it's 'look how real (yet so fucking stupid and unreal) our new war game looks'. I clicked on the link to hear frank's newest cover and got way more than I wanted or ever expected. Oh well. I'll still buy Franks records and the iggy cover though not my favorite does seem to capture the anger one might feel while playing a killing game over and over day after day night after night while Men and Women over seas deal with the real thing. I guess we all have our place. |
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Doog
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
1220 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2007 : 18:34:48
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quote:
Originally posted by mixedbizz
And Frogger encourages kids to play in traffic!
hahaha
And jump onto precarious logs..
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www.myspace.com/doog = solo choons
www.myspace.com/casabonitaband = noisey stuff
www.myspace.com/WKtheband = surfrockpop geekery
www.myspace.com/ukpixiestribute = Nimrod's Son |
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josephmichael
- FB Fan -
27 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2007 : 20:02:34
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Totally tangential, but Erebus, what do you have against the intro to Atlantis? I think it's funny. Plus, he didn't even write it, it's a Donovan song. For those of us that appreciate this tune, here's a video of Donovan playing it back in 1969
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikWr6I-e4l8 |
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Brank_Flack
* Dog in the Sand *
Canada
1017 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2007 : 20:16:57
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| meh, its a video game |
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ProverbialCereal
- FB TabMaster -
USA
2953 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2007 : 22:10:02
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Meh, and it's also a cover song. It's not like he lent "Whatever Happened to Pong?" to the trailer. I'm indifferent toward this and I'll sure as hell keep buying Frank's albums.
I don't see how it necessarily matters that it is marines going around killing people, as opposed to some macho man killing zombies. You could make the argument that it is disrespectful or marines really have to do this, but, it is all hyper-real anyway and in the end it is a matter of graphics and what the graphics represent. All shoot-em-up games are simulated violence.
Personally I'd rather play the Wii and simulate bowling or golf. |
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Jefrey
= Cult of Ray =
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2007 : 23:49:40
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quote:
Originally posted by billgoodman
As an artist I don't know if I would lend my work to such games.
Still, you've made me think about this move in Frank's career and I don't know what my opinion is,exactly
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God save the Noisies
I liken this to good actors doing voiceovers for commercials in foreign countries = it's a huge paycheck for very little work. I doubt they put much thought into it as long as they get paid.
"you're going to PAY me to do a Stooges cover? Sure, fuck it!"
I personally don't like the games where you realistically shoot other people. I guess I can hear the point that if it's zombies or aliens, it's really just the same thing with a different face, but to me that argument is like arguing that having sex with your cousin isn't technically incest. Maybe not, but I still think it's morally a little creepy.
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jeffamerica
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donothing
- FB Fan -
USA
11 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2007 : 00:03:24
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| it's just a video game, not a pro war ad. |
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scruvs
= Cult of Ray =
353 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2007 : 00:13:02
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he covered a couple songs about the Devil too, and that's worse than a little killing, cause that's eternal.
_____________________
Boy, you sure can holler. |
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s_wrenn
* Dog in the Sand *
Ireland
1851 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2007 : 05:36:52
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No "kids" should be playing this game, as it more than likely will get a PEGI 16+ rating (or a T in the US) Retailers have the right to refuse anyone under the age of the rating. So to think little timmy will be happily pulling off headshots and then thinking "GOLLY! I really loving killing people. Violence is swell" is a bit much.
However, having worked in several places where I was selling videogames, you find that if you refuse a child a game with an 18 rating, they get their parents to come back with them and they buy it for them. If you say anything to them about it you get the whole “It‘s none of your business who I give it to. My child, my business” bullshit. Those parents will be the same people who will end up harping about videogame violence months later (anyone remember the 80 year old grandmother who bought her 10 year old grandson GTA San Andreas? And then tried to sue Rockstar Games because she thought it wasn’t suitable for kids? )
I don’t see this as frank selling out, or promoting violence/war. It’s just a fairly good song on a trailer for yet another tom clancy franchise.
I hope Frank gets a lot more fans from this kind of publicity and a nice wedge of cash from Ubisoft
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Edited by - s_wrenn on 02/04/2007 05:39:48 |
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Jose Jones
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1758 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2007 : 06:32:05
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that's really al franken in the intro? i did not know that.
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they were the heroes of old, men of renown. |
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Sprite
* Dog in the Sand *
1334 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2007 : 06:39:49
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| Frank could say he votes for Bush and I'd still buy his records. His politics is none of my businses. He's an artist and I like his art. A lot. We all pay taxes to a government in some shape or form and they'll spend some of that money on guns whether we like it or not. |
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Grotesque
= Cult of Ray =
France
777 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2007 : 08:11:57
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quote:
Originally posted by mixedbizz
And Frogger encourages kids to play in traffic!
mmm dont understand play in trafic
But while i m listed as French , I actually live in the suburbs of Buenos Aires. A place you have to care about 10 years kids who breathe drug bags and carry guns. Actually, these kids dont even play anymore to any kind of game cos their brain is totally fucked up.
But what was the joke ? Please explain to frogger, frogger wants to know ! |
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Jason
* Dog in the Sand *
1446 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2007 : 08:12:34
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Before jumping to conclusions over this, personally I would want more information from Frank. Pose the question here and maybe he'll answer it. Maybe he didn't know much about the game. Maybe he didn't know ANYTHING about the game (but had some reason to trust the people who approached him for it.) Me, I haven't played a video game since 1989, pay no attention to them whatsoever, and, before seeing that trailer, would've had no idea what a "realistic" war simulation game in 2007 looks like. Maybe Frank doesn't pay attention to video games, either.
Hearing Frank sing over the game was kind of a turn off to me, too, for what it's worth. However, I don't buy the idea that the game is dangerous. Contributes nothing of worth to the culture? Yes. Corrupting and likely to encourage homicidal tendencies? I, personally, don't think so. |
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jediroller
* Dog in the Sand *
France
1718 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2007 : 08:44:16
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Grotesque : "Frogger" est un petit jeu dans lequel il faut faire traverser la route à une petite grenouille. La blague est que ça encouragerait les enfants à jouer au milieu de la route.
free music | Blackolero | Frank Black & Pixies Tributes |
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Carl
- A 'Fifth' Catholic -
Ireland
11546 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2007 : 10:04:51
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quote:
Originally posted by josephmichael
Totally tangential, but Erebus, what do you have against the intro to Atlantis? I think it's funny. Plus, he didn't even write it, it's a Donovan song. For those of us that appreciate this tune, here's a video of Donovan playing it back in 1969
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikWr6I-e4l8
And here it is used in a more violent context:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=v0FcYEiDeDE |
Edited by - Carl on 02/04/2007 10:05:40 |
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josephmichael
- FB Fan -
27 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2007 : 10:32:20
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Thanks Carl. Just what I needed to watch after breakfast. Why are you and Donovan trying to encourage Italians like myself to become mobsters?
Seriously though, most if not all scientific study on this subject supports that the playing of violent video games and/or watching of violent film content does lead to increased violent behavior. Of course, it can't be conclusive evidence because no one wants to try an experiment long enough and conclusive enough to potentially increase the number of violent people in our society, so we'll probably never know for sure.
My thought while listening to the song (I immediately minimized the window just cuz I didn't care about the game- only the song), was that Frank needs to start saving for his kids college tuition, but I can see how this could be upsetting. |
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Erebus
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1834 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2007 : 10:51:48
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quote:
Originally posted by josephmichael
Totally tangential, but Erebus, what do you have against the intro to Atlantis? I think it's funny. Plus, he didn't even write it, it's a Donovan song. For those of us that appreciate this tune, here's a video of Donovan playing it back in 1969
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikWr6I-e4l8
I love Donovan and Atlantis and Frank. Been a fan of the song for years. But Franken drives me crazy, for various reasons that I try to avoid discussing because these days I'm attempting to be a more constructive member of this forum.
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coastline
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3111 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2007 : 11:04:01
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You just don't like Franken cuz he's friends with Tiven. :)
 Please pardon me, for these my wrongs. |
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Newo
~ Abstract Brain ~
Spain
2674 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2007 : 11:54:01
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A point raised frequently here is that of the possible harmful influence of video games. That wasn't quite as big a point for me, (even though I would like that all the kids I hear screaming bloodthirstily amongst each other over interactive spree-killer games in the internet cafe all grow up to be entirely untainted by what they've spent so many hours consuming), anyway rather I was approaching it from another angle: the videogame-like nature of modern warfare, which consists considerably of men identifying ciphers on a screen and pushing a button to eliminate them. Okay so what? that's soldiers all the way over there and these here are kids in front of a computer. Just that the activities have come to resemble each other so much I can't help but feel they meet in the middle somehow.
And from the angle of videogames becoming more warlike instead of war becoming more videogamelike, I feel to deny spending hours a week developing violent reflexes has any effect on a person's decisionmaking process, conscious or (especially) otherwise, even if it is directed at a screen, well, you are what you eat and all that.
Debating FB's politics isn't my thing, whatever that means, it's got nothing to do with any ideology I subscribe to or an issue I have with one he subscribes to, I'm not even saying it's a big deal and would be a card-carrying chump if I expected it to be big deal for anybody else, just those games feel deeply creepy to me and that's it. I'll still listen to his music now and then of course, just there's something there wasn't there before, kindof like finding out Beck is a cult member.
And at the same time, there is a lot to think about here in the above posts, thanks fellows.
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Gravy boat! Stay in the now! |
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Grotesque
= Cult of Ray =
France
777 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2007 : 12:39:14
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quote:
Originally posted by jediroller
Grotesque : "Frogger" est un petit jeu dans lequel il faut faire traverser la route à une petite grenouille. La blague est que ça encouragerait les enfants à jouer au milieu de la route.
free music | Blackolero | Frank Black & Pixies Tributes
Ha merci en plus je le connaissais ce jeu. Sur texas intruments TI 81.
J ai cru qu on se foutait de moi pour ma frogitude.
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coastline
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3111 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2007 : 14:13:17
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I finally was able to watch the video game trailer (are they called that?). A couple observations: 1. It's disturbing to see FB associated with such godawful violence. I don't like it. 2. It's great to hear FB scream like that. He does it less than he used to, and it's always nice to hear.
Please pardon me, for these my wrongs. |
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Mac E. Doobage
= Cult of Ray =
503 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2007 : 17:27:47
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I agree. Very dissapointing. I doubt he needs the little $$ (relatively speaking) they pay for something like this. I mean c'mon that stuff is shit. No need for it.
quote:
Originally posted by coastline
I finally was able to watch the video game trailer (are they called that?). A couple observations: 1. It's disturbing to see FB associated with such godawful violence. I don't like it. 2. It's great to hear FB scream like that. He does it less than he used to, and it's always nice to hear.
Please pardon me, for these my wrongs.
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mixedbizz
- FB Fan -
USA
176 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2007 : 19:49:05
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Anyone remember the Pixies cover "Theme from NARC"? I'm wondering if that upset you guys too. NARC was actually a contreversial game when it came out.
Personally it doesn't bother me at all that FB attaches a song for GRAW2. No matter what your politics, you've got to remember 2 things:
1. You don't know his motivation... maybe he's a war-hawk (though doubtful), maybe he likes Tom Clancy books, maybe he just wants to buy a new Caddilac.
2. It's just a friggin' game! Kids have been playing cowboys and indians, cops and robbbers, and toy soldiers forever. Maybe this video game is super violent, but if so it's PARENTS responsibility to choose if their kids play it, or to help them put it in context.
The one thing that bothers me is that I have a feeling he's attaching his name to what might be a crap boring game. Like lisencing Pixies songs in bad movies, seems like it kinda dillutes the legacy. Hope Gimmie Danger ends up on a record.
If all you see is violence
Then I make a plea in their defence |
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Apesy
= Cult of Ray =
USA
411 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2007 : 19:57:12
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...are you all serious?
Are people really this uptight nowadays?
-=Apesy |
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vilainde
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Niue
7443 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2007 : 00:54:55
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You raised some interesting questions, Owen. I hadn't even thought about it, mostly because I don't give a damn about videogames and I didn't even watch the trailer, I only listened to the music (I did hear a lot of gunshots though).
What bothers me most in this thread is how some people are putting words in Frank's mouth, discussing his political tendencies although he's never ever mentioned them publicly (he's already said "Charles votes, Frank doesn't"). All you have is a song with Al Franken (who was probably not even in the same room as Frank) and another song on the soundtrack of a war video game. It doesn't say much.
So yeah, I'm a bit bothered by him singing over a war game but I frankly don't see any political message in this. If I remember well, there have been Pixies songs used in car commercials, and THAT is waaaay worse IMO. I could boycott a band for helping selling cars (but I could never boycott anything Frank, sorry).
Re: Newo's line about Beck... Has he ever done any publicity for Scientology? I don't follow his career closely but, unless I've missed something, he's no Travolta, he hasn't recorded songs praising his cult, so what's the big deal (Personally I don't listen to him only because he records with Godrich, Scientology doesn't affect my judgement).
Denis
"Can you hear me? I aint got shit to say." |
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tisasawath
= Cult of Ray =
Wallis and Futuna Islands
783 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2007 : 02:03:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Newo
And from the angle of videogames becoming more warlike instead of war becoming more videogamelike, I feel to deny spending hours a week developing violent reflexes has any effect on a person's decisionmaking process, conscious or (especially) otherwise, even if it is directed at a screen, well, you are what you eat and all that.
Paddle the paddle to the side to the side
To the side to the side to the paddle the paddle
Paddle the paddle the side to the side..
ah, excellent joy of the Pong
I believe it's our hunting instinct and we enjoy exercising/appeasing it. Whether this reinforces the drive, yes, I believe it's been proven that it does. Whether it drives the individual towards aggressive behaviour in reality, or helping discharge such tensions, I don't know.
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AAAAWWWWWRRRIIGGHHTTTTT !! ! |
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Frog in the Sand
-+ Le premiere frog +-
France
2715 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2007 : 03:11:23
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I'm wondering how "enculage de mouches" translates in English?...
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BLACKOLERO le only Frank Black / Pixies site 100% in français |
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Newo
~ Abstract Brain ~
Spain
2674 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2007 : 04:24:42
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surprise surprise Yann chips in with nothing but a snide aside.
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Gravy boat! Stay in the now! |
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what's gotten into frnk?
