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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11674 Posts |
 Posted - 04/19/2003 : 10:40:34
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| Sure thing, Cap, Ten Percenter's all yours. |
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El Barto
= Song DB Master =
USA
4020 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2003 : 10:58:02
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| Well, progress on my track...I was surprisingly able to get the acoustic guitar track in a single take, which I've never been able to do before. I did bass but I'll probably redo it, cause I don't like the way it sounds. I got drums, but I might redo those cause they aren't perfect. I did vocals for the first half of the song, and I'm rather content with them, so I think they'll stay. I have to do vocals for the end...I don't know if I'm gonna do falsetto or not, as I've been having trouble getting it good onto tape. I got the ending guitar and lead guitar done. Sooo...I still have to redo bass, maybe drums, do ending vocals, and that should be it. |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11674 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2003 : 11:30:07
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| Cool, that's great, I'm really looking forward to getting everyone's tracks. I guess as far as progress on my part goes, I'm pretty sure we know which song we're doing (I spent all of Thurs & yesterday until 8 working on it), but I'm not going to say which just in case we decide on something else on Sunday, since there are a few contenders still. I've gotten Old Black Dawning from Robert Onion and am waiting on Don't 'ya Rile Em, I have Cartland's version of Superabound which I need permission to use, as with The Swimmer's Dog Gone which I also need permission for. Whatever we pick should be a lot closer to completion come Monday, and I should be able to tell everyone what song Mr. Radiator is doing sometime next week as well. I'm going to work out some sort of progress meter with Dave come May, but I think it's clear that things are going well so far. |
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Kingmob999
- FB Fan -
57 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2003 : 11:33:36
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Hey i havent posted here yet (i dont think) but Im a huge fan and Id like to do one (or 2) of these tunes:
1) Man of Steel
2) Better Things
3) Living on Soul
4) How you went so far
5) Fields of Marigold
6) Fu Manchu
Im afraid to narrow myself down to one cause sometimes things dont turn out as good as you think they will, if you want to narrow it down for me thats fine really.
Thanks Guidian |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11674 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2003 : 12:03:25
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| Sure, none of those are taken, you have 'till May 1 to decide which one (I'll leave the decision up to you), so I recommend playing around with them so that you know which one is most likely to turn out the best and let us know as soon as you decide. We do things (generally) on a first to call it, first to cover it. As for doing more than one, you're welcome to cover one or several, but I will put a maximum of one on the CD. So if you do several and send them to me, I guess I'll have to use my judgement to choose the best one. Check out the Details thread if you haven't already. Looking forward to hearing any of those. |
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CaptainMaximus
- FB Fan -
126 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2003 : 13:18:40
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| Great! Ten Percenter it is then; I'm positive I want to do this one. Will get started ASAP...this will be fun. I hope to have it done in the next couple of weeks. Thanks again! |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11674 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2003 : 13:22:34
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Don't thank me, thank the moon's gravitational pull.
I'm looking forward to hearing it. |
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ProverbialCereal
- FB TabMaster -
USA
2953 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2003 : 20:03:39
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I got me a question (quessstion!) [sung to "Headache"]
After we've completed our song, what quality mp3 should we make it? 160 kbps? 192? I burn my songs on to a nice Yamaha CD burner, then turn it into Mp3, so hopefully not much sound quality get's lost in the transfers. It's more the CD --> Mp3 part because I just use musicmatch
-Derek |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11674 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2003 : 21:06:27
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| 160+ is fine... doesn't Musicmatch just encode at 96? |
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ProverbialCereal
- FB TabMaster -
USA
2953 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2003 : 21:26:17
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Nope, you can adjust the level... I think it can go pretty high too, above 200 i know. Now some versions might have restrictions though, I dunno.
-Derek |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11674 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2003 : 11:44:19
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Hmm... maybe I had a shareware version then.
Anyway, I guess it's official, we'll be taking on His Kingly Cave. Someone's gotta' represent DW. |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11674 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2003 : 11:46:39
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| Oh, hobobumsteak, do you know what you're doing? I'm sorry I couldn't commit on His Kingly Cave earlier, but I had done a lot of orchestration on the beginning and a little work on several other songs, so I wasn't 100% that we would be taking it. If you _really_ want to do His Kingly Cave, you may, but it would be nice to get something else. Let me know. |
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El Barto
= Song DB Master =
USA
4020 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2003 : 12:34:54
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| Why don't we say 192Kbps? That's usually standard for MP3s now (better than 128) |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11674 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2003 : 15:06:21
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| Sure, 192 sounds fine. Like I said, I'm happy with 160+, so 192 is great. Still a heck of a lot smaller than wav files and I can't hear a difference. |
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pong
= Cult of Ray =
France
315 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2003 : 11:33:06
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so i can't play SSMVD? really, it's not cool because it's already a cover? i don't see how it could hurt anybody... but, if you want me to change, it's ok, i change my choice. i just have to choose a new one.
- Pong
"i'll be on the first fligh" |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11674 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2003 : 11:39:28
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| It's still cool... I love the song, but if you do a cover of SSMVGD, you're really just covering the original artist and not FB (even if you've never heard the original), so that's the reasoning I suppose. There's a lot of FB to choose from, though, so I'm sure you won't have any problems finding another good one to cover. Anyway, thanks for understanding, let me know what you decide to do. |
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peter radiator
= Cult of Ray =
USA
649 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2003 : 11:39:58
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quote:
Originally posted by pong
so i can't play SSMVD? really, it's not cool because it's already a cover? i don't see how it could hurt anybody... but, if you want me to change, it's ok, i change my choice. i just have to choose a new one.
- Pong
"i'll be on the first fligh"
Hey, I dig the idea of keeping this about FB's' own writings, but Frank's always had great taste in covers. Why don't we see how this first effort goes, and if it turns out well, we could do a second volume of once-removed songs, where we submit covers of tracks that Frank has covered as B-sides or in concert?
~ Peter Radiator
"Real music is out there and real people are making it." ~ Webb Wilder |
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peter radiator
= Cult of Ray =
USA
649 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2003 : 11:41:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Kingmob999
Hey i havent posted here yet (i dont think) but Im a huge fan and Id like to do one (or 2) of these tunes:
1) Man of Steel
2) Better Things
3) Living on Soul
4) How you went so far
5) Fields of Marigold
6) Fu Manchu
Thanks Guidian
"Better Things" is a Kinks cover. However, I'd love to hear someone tackle "Fu Manchu"...
~ Peter Radiator
"Real music is out there and real people are making it." ~ Webb Wilder |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11674 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2003 : 11:46:48
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| Both great posts, I would love to hear a Fu Manchu cover (does anyone out there play sax?). Thought about doing that one myself, but... His Kingly Cave just came together so nicely. I think that if this one were to go well, the next disc would probably be a Pixies cover CD, but I think that covering songs that FB/Pixies have covered at some point in their career would be a great idea for disc 3. But, like you said, one thing at a time. :) |
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FloydMerrick
- FB Fan -
7 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2003 : 14:00:34
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i don't think anyone has taken i think i'm starting to lose it, so if no one has, i'll definitely do it.
it's insane, this guy's taint. |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11674 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2003 : 14:21:30
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| You're officially signed on. |
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eugovector
- FB Fan -
21 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2003 : 20:28:29
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Hey all. I'm new but I'd like a piece of this action if you'll have me. I missed out on the breeders tribute.
I'd like Abstract Plain.
If anyone would like to contribute drums and bass, I'd be willing to contribute guitar and vocals for Men in Black also. |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11674 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2003 : 03:49:35
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| Sure thing, I'll get you on for Abstract Plain tomorrow. Be sure to post that last bit in the collaboration section - maybe you can help someone pull together MIB. Be sure you've read all the details as well. Thanks for getting aboard. |
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Stuart
- The Clopser -
China
2291 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2003 : 08:13:34
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I wish I could play an instrument and then I'd be up for doing a song...... the only instrument I'm good at playing is the pink banjo.
International Air Guitar Hitman |
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Chris Knight
= Cult of Ray =
USA
899 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2003 : 17:15:50
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| Okay, so officially I'm signing up for a Pixie-esque full band version of Brackish Boy. Unofficially, I'm also tossing around ideas for Czar, Two Reelers, and a slightly rearranged The Marsist. |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11674 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2003 : 17:58:24
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| Done and done. I'm not sure what a 'pink' banjo is, but I'm open to enlightenment. |
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2003 : 20:10:44
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Please don't elaborate on the pink banjoy..err..jo.
Dean - use your imagination.. |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11674 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2003 : 21:27:54
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| Sweet Maria, that's going into the repertoire with 'five on one' and 'slippery handshake'. Can't believe I didn't catch that, I'm usually right up there on the euphemisms. :) |
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2003 : 23:09:40
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heh..i prefer 'a date with Rosy Palms and her five sisters.'
But that's enough for this thread.. |
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El Barto
= Song DB Master =
USA
4020 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2003 : 13:00:06
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| Haha, I was waiting for COF to ask Stuart to send a clip of him playing the pink banjo...Oh well. |
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peter radiator
= Cult of Ray =
USA
649 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2003 : 15:26:58
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Dean,
All apologies for being so out of touch. The wife of one of my guitarists (and the owner of the studio we're using) just had her first baby and it has thrown his schedule way off. As a result we still haven't settled on a track but I promise we will have determined a final selection by Sunday evening and I can contact you then. Thanks for your patience, and for manning the helm of this rudderless ship.
There is also something I wanted to bring up for discussion.
Despite the large number of professional musicians and/or songwriters on these boards and especially involved in this project, I was surprised to see that so far no one has brought up the subjects of copyright infringement and royalties as they pertain to this MP3 tribute album.
While I understand that the idea here is to help promote Frank's music, the reality is that very few people are going to be downloading these tracks that aren't diehard FB fans already, and it is unlike that this project will win him many new converts.
With that in mind, I feel that even though the legalities surrounding internet distribution of music files are a bit murky right now, the honest thing to do in regard to this project is to find an easy way to remunerate Frank's publishing company for these downloads just as though the tracks were appearing on a standard tangible compact disc or tape that could be ordered online or bought in a store.
That way everyone involved both in recording these new versions and in downloading the tracks for their listening pleasure can feel good knowing that Frank received his fair payment for the fact that the songs he wrote were covered and distributed by us.
This may seem like a difficult and costly proposition, but it's not.
Normally, when putting a cover song on a regular album, the easiest way is to figure out how many copies you're going to press, and then send the correct amount in licensing fee to the publisher of the song, who in turn splits it with the artist. Then, if you wind up making more albums, you just send them another check at that time, and so on.
However, since these MP3 "albums" will be available on an as-needed basis, there is no good way to prognosticate how many will be "pressed". The only logical way to deal with this is to simply create a method of determining how many times a complete "record" is downloaded, and then at regular intervals (i.e., every month or so) send the appropriate amount of payment to Frank's publishing house(s), with a listing of which songs were distributed.
This would definitely show Frank and his business people that we respected him not only as an artist, but as a person who makes his living from his music, and that we were straight-up and professional in all our dealings.
In order for this to work properly and not be a recordkeeping nightmare, the best thing to do would be to only allow people to download the entire "album" at once, and not one track at a time. This also allows Dean to sequence the thing like a real record, and know that people will be getting an actual conceptual product and not just picking and choosing which ones they want (they can always delete or ignore the tracks they don't care for once they have them on their computers).
Then there is the issue of payment.
How much are we talking about, and where will the money come from?
Last time I checked, the standard rate paid for "pressing" a cover tune is 7.5 cents per song, per album. So, a tribute "record" with 20 MP3 cuts on it would "cost" $1.50 for the rights to distribute (download) it.
The publisher will likely split that 50/50 with Frank, so he'll be getting about 3 cents per song. That doesn't sound like much, but it adds up. Since there will likely be at least 1,000 downloads of this album once it is finished, you're talking about several hundred dollars that Frank is rightfully owed for us using his original songs. Plus, it's the principle of the thing.
As far as collecting the money, I'm sure there's an easy way to set up some sort of Paypal button so that the FTP users could click it and send this publishing money before the album is downloaded to them. You'd have to leave that up to someone with more internet savvy than myself.
You'd also have to tack on something like an extra penny per song to cover the transaction fee that Paypal charges for using their service. But then, you could just shoot some Paypal over to Frank's publishers every few weeks and everything's hunky-dory.
It would be important to make clear to everyone concerned that this is NOT a moneymaking venture, and that NONE of the artists submitting songs OR this website would be getting a cut of the money. Every bit of it would go DIRECTLY to Frank's publishers for his royalties.
Since we don't have any recording, packaging or replication costs, this would be so cheap to do, and for less than $2, everything could be taken care of.
Please don't think I am insiting we do this. It's just a suggestion. However, I do think the entire notion of proper remuneration deserves some serious consideration and discussion before we actually start offering this album online.
What does everyone else think?
~ Peter Radiator
"Real music is out there and real people are making it." ~ Webb Wilder |
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Broken Face
-= Forum Pistolero =-
USA
5155 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2003 : 17:52:30
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i think mr. radiator is correct. i'd willingly throw in a little money to send my "respects" to mr. black. i am neither super internet savvy, nor do i have a huge ammount of knowledge in regards to publishing, but if someone else would organize this (i suggest mr. radiator for the publishing and ??? for the paypal system). this would add an air of class and professionalism to the project without breaking our pocketbooks and with helping out the reason we're all here, mr. black.
-brian
as breathing flows my mind secedes... |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11674 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2003 : 19:51:03
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Peter, I have indeed considered this and several other options related to collecting monies for the CD on a per download basis, as well as having someone like MP3.com do the distribution for us of ACTUAL CDs, and it is a very valid argument. I had initially, for example, thought of donating part of the monies raised to the site and the rest to FB / his label(s). I've also thought of doing what you suggest, by having one large .ZIP file with all the MP3's in the correct order and ready to download/burn and basically granting permission to each person to download after payment has been received using some sort of special username/password (which would invariably get out once the first people downloaded it and be useless). Anyway, my point here is I have considered this and many other options and dismissed them for the time being.
Here are my thoughts:
As far as ripping Mr. Black off, which is not something I think any of us would want to do, being die hard fans and so forth, I'm fairly sure we're not. Are we exposing new people to his music? Not likely, but at the same time, people certainly won't be downloading the songs in lieu of purchasing the album. The project will, in all truth, neither harm nor help FB&Co.
When considering the downloads, even at $2.00 US, plus the headache of setting up a Paypal account, I really don't think that we will have a lot of people downloading it. There are some great songs that are going to be on the compilation, true... I've already heard a few of them, but I would probably place my estimate in downloads around the 200-300 mark, unless we get some publicity from other sites, and nevermind the cut that the publishers take for themselves. Nevertheless, this is still potential money that FB is not receiving.
Finally, professionalism. Clearly, selling a disc with royalties going to the publisher is the more professional way to go, and even the fairer way to go. I'm not sure what would happen since there are songs from all eras and several publishers, but it is still more professional. It would be even more so if we could get the final disc done up by his label, since they would control sales, distribution, and monies as well, nevermind that it would be a really great step for contributors to the CD to be on a major release like this. Yes, there is no doubt that it would be more professional to do it this way.
However, it is also clear that a major label would not be likely to put out our CD, however professional it might be done. We could try this avenue, I'd be more than open to it, but realistically, it's not practical. I know this isn't what you were suggesting, but I just want to point out that we have to be realistic. It's probably also not realistic to try to sell this album on the net. Although I plan to do my best to ensure that only really well-done songs make the cut, I am concerned that if the CD becomes too professional, we may lose the majority of our tracks. While I do like the idea of reimbursing Frank, and I do like the idea of making the CD as professional as possible (which I've stated from day 1 was my plan), I'm just not sure it's really realistic for a project of this scope.
Of course, if Mr. Black were to interject that he would like reimbursement and what amount, we would definitely do exactly that, but given SSMVGD and the fact that he really doesn't seem to mind taping of his shows and so forth, I find it unlikely that he would be concerned by our little project. I'm somewhat doubtful he'd even download the songs himself, though that would be quite a complement if he were to do so. Perhaps I should try to contact him or his label and see what his thoughts are on the subject, maybe that would be the most professional thing to do.
Anyway, I'm not saying no, just that it seems a little unrealistic at this point. If we were to do it, I would probably recommend doing so through someone like MP3.com so that users can go to them and download the MP3s as well as receiving an actual CD, which would probably be as professional as we could get. Then we don't have to worry about all the headaches with payment and so forth, and although this would increase the price (since we'd have to pay MP3.com for making the CD as well as giving money to FB, everyone would get the CD as it was meant to be with artwork and tracks in order, etc.
Long story short, a great idea, thanks Peter, though I do feel it is probably a little too far to go with this project. I always like to hear opinions (even from those not contributing, since you will be the ones downloading/not downloading), and I would certainly like to hear where people stand on this issue. I can try to contact the label (though they will invariably say, "Money? Sure!") or maybe FB himself (probably difficult/impossible) if this would alleviate concerns. And, you know, I'll try to get us a record deal on the side. :) |
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2003 : 21:06:27
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I dunno.. I want the shitty, hissy and over-reverbed tracks on the comp.
Maybe down the road we can do a 'professional' recording, but since this is going to be FREE (and i will see it no other way on FB.net at this point), and i want as many people as possible to participate (ie, not feel intimidated), let's keep it rolling as it is.
As for giving Frank $$ from this project, that's such a crock. This is just a bunch of people having fun playing Frank's tunes and sharing them with one another, as pointed out.
Sheesh..if i have to worry about recording a song for fun in my fucking bedroom i'm gonna stop playing music. |
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ProverbialCereal
- FB TabMaster -
USA
2953 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2003 : 21:19:48
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So did i miss something here? Are there going to be actual CD's distributed to people want them? Or is it just going to be downloading of Mp3's once all the songs are finished?
I thought it was only going to be MP3's and no money would be involved at all, not even money used for shipping and handling, etc. And if it were that way, why would we need to reimburse Frank Black if no money is being transfered to anyone in anyway?
Now I'm not against giving Frank Black royalties, but if all our covers are going to be downloaded by people for free, and no money is being tossed around, why would there need to be money tossed toward Frank Black? Or is it the fact that we are using his copyrighted songs? I guess I always thought you were infringing on copyright laws if you claimed credit for something that's not yours, and more importantly, you make money off someone else's art or whatever.
And also, it's not like it's gonna be a plug for anyone's band who is participating. At least I don't think it will be.
I think I'd be more for having an optional fund for Frank Black. Like, "thank you frank for writing these songs and letting us play them. Here is some money." I'd donate some toward that fund. But I guess not many other people would voluntarily do that.
-Derek |
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Frank Black Tribute CD Chat
