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Monsieur
* Dog in the Sand *

France
1688 Posts

Posted - 04/13/2006 :  10:23:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Frog in the Sand

quote:
Originally posted by Monsieur
What you are saying is that we are probably right to disagree, but those are the rules.

People who think there are clear lines that make it unnecessary to use their brains are called nazis.



Je comprends le fond de ta pensée, Ad, mais là je crois que tu devrais t'enfiler un suppo et filer au lit...

-----
"The following tale of me is true. And by true, I mean false. It's all lies. But they're entertaining lies. And in the end, isn't that the real truth? The answer is: No." (The Simpson Files)




Non, Frog.

Ca suffit.

On est là, en train de discuter d'un truc (les manifs en France) et on se prend des remarques parce qu'il y a une pauvre photo de Mariane ou un tableau de Delacroix.

L'argument de la sécurité au travail est ridicule. C'est juste pas vrai!

Si un mec se fait capter sur un forum et qu'il y a un tableau de Delacroix, il pourra avoir des problèmes parce qu'il glande, pas parce qu'il aime la peinture.

En réalité, les mods ici ont fini par être plus catholiques que le pape.


I will show you fear in a handful of dust
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remig
* Dog in the Sand *

France
1734 Posts

Posted - 04/13/2006 :  10:28:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
D'ailleurs, le pape ne joue plus avec les catholiques. (dommage c'était mieux que tiven)
ça me gonfle grave que des gens intelligens arrivent à abdiquer de cette manière face à la pression d'une minorité ultra-conservatrice. C'est aussi pour ça que je suis contre le respect absolu des sensibilités de toute les minorités, c'est réduire la sphère publique au plus petit dénominateur commun.
Je ne comprendrais jamais ce pays qui produit les Sopranos et qui oblige un type qui aurais vu un téton sur un écran à prendre des cours sur le harcèlement sexuel.
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cassandra is
> Teenager of the Year <

France
4233 Posts

Posted - 04/13/2006 :  10:34:39  Show Profile  Visit cassandra is's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hey, just relax everybody...

This forum is a great forum, perhaps one of the best in the world, no one saying the opposite. I know and I think we all know you're making a great job (Dean, Brian and Tre), and it's a lot of responsabilities, no one's denying this.

Talking of what we are arguing about here: I posted those pictures and paintings because:

I wanted to highlight the discussion, and to focus on the history and devellopments of nudity in French art, and Rémi was making a clear reference to recent political events. The picture of Delacroix is very famous, in fact it was printed on our old bills some years ago. There was nothing offensive in that towards Tre or anybody else. In fact, there was nothing lewd or sexual in those pictures. Sensual, maybe, but not sexual or lewd. This is art for god's sake! I'm sure even your bosses at work would understand the difference! Those pictures are in magazines, history books, you see it in school, in the museums, in the advertisements, art forums, etc... I would even go further: there's no nudity in these pictures, THERE'S ART, that's all.

what we are trying to say is that I guess everybody understands the difference between pornography and non-pornography, it's not so difficult. I knew that nudity wasn't allowed on the forum, but I was trying to point out some aspects of the history of representations. I'd like to think that discussing about the origins and the meanings of nudity in our civilizations, and trying to understand what is provocative and what's behind the representations is better that just saying: NO nudity.

About the locked threads: somebody said that no one really mattered about locking the "I just watched..." except Floop and Fartbone, that's not true: many of us have said and have tried to explain our points of vue about that specific thread.

I don't know who did that, but thanks for unlocking me. Now I can explain myself.






pas de bras pas de chocolat

Edited by - cassandra is on 04/13/2006 10:40:42
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Monsieur
* Dog in the Sand *

France
1688 Posts

Posted - 04/13/2006 :  10:40:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
je pense qu'il faut pas abdiquer. on est en majorité. on a raison. si on tape tout s'écroule - il faudra qu'ils composent un peu. Ils le savent (j'en veux pour preuve leur effort lamentable de nettoyer le forum)

l'attitude de dean est scandaleuse. il refuse de comprendre et prend tout au 1er degré, c'est navrant, je le trouvais plutôt sympa avant.

ils se sont jamais posé la question de savoir si on pouvait signaler les topics où il y a un nichon, où mettre tout ça dans un tiroir à part du forum. ou bien ils sont stupides ou bien ils s'en foutent.

je refuse que les mecs qui daubent sur dave noisy derrière son dos se comportent ainsi ici. dave noisy, au moins, a le courage de ses opinions.


I will show you fear in a handful of dust
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cassandra is
> Teenager of the Year <

France
4233 Posts

Posted - 04/13/2006 :  10:46:15  Show Profile  Visit cassandra is's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Malheureusement, je crois que ça va être difficile, c'est quand même fou: sur le principe et sur le fond ils sont d'accord avec nous (enfin il me semble), mais dans les faits, c'est le contraire. Je suis comme Rémi j'arrive pas à comprendre leur position.




pas de bras pas de chocolat

Edited by - cassandra is on 04/13/2006 10:48:14
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Monsieur
* Dog in the Sand *

France
1688 Posts

Posted - 04/13/2006 :  10:46:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Cass, I agree with every single thing you say there. In fact, I don't understand how someone can disagree.


I will show you fear in a handful of dust
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =

Canada
11513 Posts

Posted - 04/13/2006 :  10:48:30  Show Profile  Visit Cult_Of_Frank's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Cassandra, this isn't about the art in those paintings. Those being removed was more to do with the reason they were posted (defiance) rather than there being a bared breast. I agree there is nothing sexual or lewd or offensive abot it, except for the reason it was posted - out of spite for Tre changing a direct post to a link.

That Adnan doesn't agree doesn't surprise me. But if Adnan continues to insult members of this forum personally, he'll be removed. That we're moderators doesn't make us immune to being picked on and insulted.

Sincerely,
-Pope Dean


"If we hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominos will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate."
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Monsieur
* Dog in the Sand *

France
1688 Posts

Posted - 04/13/2006 :  10:48:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by cassandra is

Malheureusement, je crois que ça va difficile, c'est quand même fou: sur le principe et sur le fond ils sont d'accord avec nous (enfin il me semble), mais dans les faits, c'est le contraire. Je suis comme Rémi j'arrive pas à comprendre leur position.




pas de bras pas de chocolat




c'est vieux comme l'humanité.
le petit caporal ss est plus nazi que hitler.


I will show you fear in a handful of dust
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cassandra is
> Teenager of the Year <

France
4233 Posts

Posted - 04/13/2006 :  10:52:28  Show Profile  Visit cassandra is's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Dean, there was no defiance about those pictures, really. Like I was saying we were trying to start a discussion.
But even if it was (and it's not) defiance, I think it was a good thing.




pas de bras pas de chocolat
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =

Canada
11513 Posts

Posted - 04/13/2006 :  10:52:30  Show Profile  Visit Cult_Of_Frank's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Au revoir.


"If we hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominos will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate."
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remig
* Dog in the Sand *

France
1734 Posts

Posted - 04/13/2006 :  10:52:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
COF, I didn't post the delacroix painting in defiance (it's not renaissance it's XIXth), it was an explanation of the meaning of the linked by tre picture. And it wasn't posted in an agressive way.
You can read my post again.

Please adnan, stop with nazi comparison, it's a bit hard. Intellectual fascism would be better.
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BLT
> Teenager of the Year <

South Sandwich Islands
4204 Posts

Posted - 04/13/2006 :  10:52:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by remig

What's your job?


Computer support/admin at a university.
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cassandra is
> Teenager of the Year <

France
4233 Posts

Posted - 04/13/2006 :  10:54:21  Show Profile  Visit cassandra is's Homepage  Reply with Quote
It's all about freedom of speech, in fact, just like the symbol of the Delacroix painting (which is quite ironic).




pas de bras pas de chocolat
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jediroller
* Dog in the Sand *

1718 Posts

Posted - 04/13/2006 :  10:54:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Compte bien tes troupes, général. Personnellement, je ne comprends rien à ton désir soudain de partir en guerre.

Noisy a débarqué de nulle part, supprimé un fil de discussion entier sans avertissement, distribué quelques leçons de morale puis redisparu pendant des mois. Par contre, Brian, Tre et Dean ont fait ces derniers mois un énorme travail pour améliorer le site et sont présents en permanence sur ce forum. Depuis des heures ils s'échinent à expliquer les règles, puisque règles il faut bien qu'il y ait apparemment, et s'efforcent de calmer les choses tandis que, franchement, tu as l'air de faire de ton mieux pour foutre le feu.

Voilà pourquoi je ne suis vraiment pas d'accord avec la comparaison. Ni avec le reste d'ailleurs. (On s'en fout, je sais, mais je l'aurai dit une fois pour toutes.)


The experts they file in by the roomful / Watching him dying young

free music
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starmekitten
-= Forum Pistolera =-

United Kingdom
6369 Posts

Posted - 04/13/2006 :  10:57:21  Show Profile  Visit starmekitten's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Monsieur, I do not think you are even trying to understand.

If you light up a cigarette in a non smoking cafe you are going to piss people off. Same principle. This rules argument is nonsense. Everyone has a certain level of societal rules they will adhere to like or not. It may not be my rule but on the behalf of others, not the owner of the site but the users, I will apply it. As far as courage of convictions go my objection back in the day to the deleting of beautiful women was not the deletion of the thread but the way the situation was handled. If you read back you will find I was never happy about those photo's being posted and I stand by that now. I considered the situation when I saw that picture and decided that linking it was for the best. I thought it would prevent any potential for offense by people who do browse at work. I thought it would prevent any more flare ups around this issue and I thought you would understand. I truly did. I was determined to handle it better than such scenarios have been handled and was very open about what I was doing.

You claim we are not respecting the french cultural implications contained within the thread but consider that you have french speakers on forum who are not from such a society. You do have people who browse at work and people who have children who browse at home and people who would probably prefer to have such imagery as an option. It still is an option that is available. I think you are over-reacting and making argument now for the sake of it.

I don't like your accusations to my behaviour. I don't appreciate having these negative comments about the efforts made by moderators on forum. I spend so much of my time trying to compile things for the database. Sorting out quotes, complete back-cats, lyrics and definitions all this stuff takes so much time. Dean is continually tweaking and mending, Brian is always working hard and they put serious hours in on the podcast and the general running of the forum. We do all this, as you know, relatively unsupported. We are always trying to think of interesting things that would work for the forum. If you can think of any throw it at us, if you have a better way then share it and don't just do us down. You know full well how open I am when it comes to figuring out what is wrong and what can be done better. I have always had a lot of respect for you Monsieur as an intelligent human being. In this instance it seems to me that you are being very closed minded and insulting about this whole scenario.

I repeat: What do you want me to do.

Cassandra. I turned a photograph into a link, a photograph of a partially nude girl, not of a painting but an actual girl. I'm sorry you don't agree with that.

-
I tried doing that once, making every minute count. It gave me a headache.
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cassandra is
> Teenager of the Year <

France
4233 Posts

Posted - 04/13/2006 :  10:58:14  Show Profile  Visit cassandra is's Homepage  Reply with Quote
d'accord sur le fait qu'il faut des règles, mais dans ce cas précis, je pense que sur le fond on a pas tort, ce qui est pénible c'est qu'il y a de l'excès, Monsieur fait un peu de provoc (mais c'est Monsieur, on le connait après tout), mais je trouve qu'il y a aussi un peu d'excès de l'autre côté.




pas de bras pas de chocolat

Edited by - cassandra is on 04/13/2006 10:58:48
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remig
* Dog in the Sand *

France
1734 Posts

Posted - 04/13/2006 :  11:04:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by remig

That's what I call Cultural Exception. This picture was a reference at "la liberté guidant le peuple", a famous painting by Delacroix. It's an allegory for the fight for democracy.
It has been showed in the TV news and in the serious newspapers too.

IMAGE REMOVED.




quote:

Don't worry Tre. I can understand it. Besides, people shouldn't be caught on forums at work, no matter if there's nudity or not.



I did not worried about the link.
Banning Cass' and removing paintings, I didn't like it.
I can understand COF might have been pissed of by Floop yesterday and Monsieur today and overreacted.
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cassandra is
> Teenager of the Year <

France
4233 Posts

Posted - 04/13/2006 :  11:07:13  Show Profile  Visit cassandra is's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Tre, you also locked pictures of scuptures and paintings, and my account, that's where I don't agree. But you're the mod.

"You do have people who browse at work and people who have children who browse at home and people who would probably prefer to have such imagery as an option."

One time again, when you're at work, you're supposed to work, not to spend your time on an internet forum. About the children, it's the parents responsabilities. And one time again there was nothing offensive or schocking in those pictures-paintings. I mean when you go to the museum, do you ask your child to close his eyes each time there's a nude? I guess he won't see a lot of things.




pas de bras pas de chocolat

Edited by - cassandra is on 04/13/2006 11:08:08
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starmekitten
-= Forum Pistolera =-

United Kingdom
6369 Posts

Posted - 04/13/2006 :  11:11:50  Show Profile  Visit starmekitten's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Cassandra. I did no such thing.

-
I tried doing that once, making every minute count. It gave me a headache.
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cassandra is
> Teenager of the Year <

France
4233 Posts

Posted - 04/13/2006 :  11:16:24  Show Profile  Visit cassandra is's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Then I apologize for accusing you of that, I've misunderstood, but somebody did it.




pas de bras pas de chocolat
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Fartbone
- FB Fan -

USA
171 Posts

Posted - 04/13/2006 :  11:16:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
hey monsieur, either live with it or STFU and leave.


Horale Cabrones
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cassandra is
> Teenager of the Year <

France
4233 Posts

Posted - 04/13/2006 :  11:18:52  Show Profile  Visit cassandra is's Homepage  Reply with Quote
did someone locked Monsieur's account too?




pas de bras pas de chocolat
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BLT
> Teenager of the Year <

South Sandwich Islands
4204 Posts

Posted - 04/13/2006 :  11:20:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by cassandra is

One time again, when you're at work, you're supposed to work, not to spend your time on an internet forum.



This may be true at your job but not at mine. I am assigned tasks and it is assumed I will get them done. Once the jobs in my queue are done or pending, my bosses trust that I've got things under control and I am not expected to "look busy."
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Llamadance
> Teenager of the Year <

United Kingdom
2543 Posts

Posted - 04/13/2006 :  11:27:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by cassandra is

"You do have people who browse at work and people who have children who browse at home and people who would probably prefer to have such imagery as an option."

About the children, it's the parents responsabilities.




Um, not really. If an 'offensive' picture came up unexpectedly, there's nothing I could do about it. If my children saw it, I'd be hacked off. I can't be responsible for other peoples actions, I can only do my best for the sake of my children.

Seriously though, I do have issues with censorship, but this seems fairly reasonable and a decent compromise.

Just to clarify though, the chat guidelines specify no nude pictures. That's kind of woolly as 'nude' to me indicates full frontal, not just breasts. Maybe they need to be updated.




That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

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cassandra is
> Teenager of the Year <

France
4233 Posts

Posted - 04/13/2006 :  11:33:27  Show Profile  Visit cassandra is's Homepage  Reply with Quote
one time again in that case, it was about art, I just can't understand why you still don't want to make a distinction.




pas de bras pas de chocolat
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Llamadance
> Teenager of the Year <

United Kingdom
2543 Posts

Posted - 04/13/2006 :  11:39:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
who? me? I'm just saying that you can't hold me responsible for another forum members actions, which you seemed to want to do. I was talking about a hypothetical offensive picture, not the picture involved in the dispute.


That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

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cassandra is
> Teenager of the Year <

France
4233 Posts

Posted - 04/13/2006 :  11:41:17  Show Profile  Visit cassandra is's Homepage  Reply with Quote
alright, then you agree there was nothing wrong with those pictures?




pas de bras pas de chocolat
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Fartbone
- FB Fan -

USA
171 Posts

Posted - 04/13/2006 :  11:44:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
is something wrong with the water in france?!


Horale Cabrones
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cassandra is
> Teenager of the Year <

France
4233 Posts

Posted - 04/13/2006 :  11:46:09  Show Profile  Visit cassandra is's Homepage  Reply with Quote
is there something wrong with you?




pas de bras pas de chocolat

Edited by - cassandra is on 04/13/2006 11:48:57
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Llamadance
> Teenager of the Year <

United Kingdom
2543 Posts

Posted - 04/13/2006 :  11:53:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by cassandra is

alright, then you agree there was nothing wrong with those pictures?







haha, I never said that either. I think that within the forum rules the picture had to go.


That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

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Fartbone
- FB Fan -

USA
171 Posts

Posted - 04/13/2006 :  12:05:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by cassandra is

is there something wrong with you?




pas de bras pas de chocolat




yeah but i'm at work and it is wrong to post so much from work, and think of the childrens


Horale Cabrones
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cassandra is
> Teenager of the Year <

France
4233 Posts

Posted - 04/13/2006 :  12:07:03  Show Profile  Visit cassandra is's Homepage  Reply with Quote
uh uh? go on, please, please




pas de bras pas de chocolat
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Llamadance
> Teenager of the Year <

United Kingdom
2543 Posts

Posted - 04/13/2006 :  12:15:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by cassandra is

uh uh? go on, please, please




is that at me cassandra is? I'm not sure what you want me to say.


That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

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cassandra is
> Teenager of the Year <

France
4233 Posts

Posted - 04/13/2006 :  12:15:48  Show Profile  Visit cassandra is's Homepage  Reply with Quote
no, it's not at you, it's at mr Fartbone-god




pas de bras pas de chocolat
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =

Canada
11513 Posts

Posted - 04/13/2006 :  12:30:56  Show Profile  Visit Cult_Of_Frank's Homepage  Reply with Quote
OK, goodbye Fartbone.


"If we hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominos will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate."
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