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jtanner
- FB Fan -
89 Posts |
 Posted - 10/08/2005 : 23:44:53
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I don't know about this Jon Tiven guy. Seems almost controlling over Frank Black's direction. Could be to Frank what Eugene Landy was to Brian Wilson. Something's not right.
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fbc
-= Modulator =-
United Kingdom
4903 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2005 : 04:23:23
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...and so it continues onto page 2
Now you don't seriously believe that, tanner?
Similar to labelling Violet as Yoko.
Except the fact it's Frank Black who has taken his music in the direction you don't like. |
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fbc
-= Modulator =-
United Kingdom
4903 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2005 : 04:29:22
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quote:
Originally posted by IceCream
FBC, I agree.
Don't get me wrong, the Catholics stuff I love. It's just that looking at the bigger picture, FB pre-Catholics was Frank at his very *best. Forget the Pixies - Here's Frank Black kind of thing. Awesome!
And I love Honeycomb too. I appreciate it for what it is. Another record by one of my favourite artists, ever. I don't compare his records against each other too often. There's no point. Each one has some killer tracks. Too dimiss any of Frank Black's records would be to dismiss several of his best songs.
i just let Frank write the music, and I just listen. I've got it easy really.
(* my opinion, not fact) |
Edited by - fbc on 10/09/2005 04:32:51 |
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Jontiven
= Cult of Ray =
USA
347 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2005 : 05:07:43
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Contrarians, alas, I find that there is nothing I can say to help.
As for you Mr. jtanner, why don't you step into my office for a consultation. I think we have to adjust your meds.
If you like HONEYCOMB, great. The next album will be rockinger and like HONEYCOMB features a sterling cast of musicians, including Rich Gilbert for all you fans of the Catholic religion.
For the rest of you who didn't like HONEYCOMB and continue to razz, you can kiss my tuchus.
bye,
Jon Tiven |
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franchino
- FB Fan -
Italy
13 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2005 : 06:54:25
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I just listened to Honeycomb. I too didn't like it as much as Show me your tears, even if it sounds good, anyway.
SMYT songs were more different from one another. |
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Broken Face
-= Forum Pistolero =-
USA
5155 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2005 : 06:56:22
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it doesn't matter if we like the record or not. we don't have to love or loathe everything fb does. the important part is respect, and not telling people how they are stupid/wrong for having a different opinion.
-Brian
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HeywoodJablome
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1485 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2005 : 07:43:58
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quote:
Originally posted by fbc
If his back catalogue wasn't so damn good and way ahead of the rest, then we wouldn't have such expectations like we do for future records.
The curse of every great artist.
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OldManInaCoffeeCan
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1467 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2005 : 11:06:11
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OOOOPPPS, WRONG THREAD
But, While I'm here, I leave you with something from "Village of the Sun"
"I wish everyone would shut [the fuck] up! In the village of the sun [fb.net]"
______________________________
I joined the noisy cult of six-sixty-six when I somehow agreed to the Registration Policy
********
"I'm more of a self-indulgent epic kind of guy." King Charles IV
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Doog
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
1220 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2005 : 13:47:40
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Woah, are they recent photos? Custom made Teles with the same tremolo bridges as his Pixies-era white Contemporary Tele! Nice! :D
[/guitar geek]
"Early to bed and early to rise makes a man healthy, morecambe and wise"
www.myspace.com/doog - www.doog.tk |
Edited by - Doog on 10/09/2005 13:52:39 |
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Suicide_Samurai
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
431 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2005 : 14:06:43
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How can people say the Catholics had ran their course? If they were still making grade-A albums right up to their split and Franks first album since was as bad as this, surely we can conclude it was a bad move?
But maybe it was just an anomaly and the new "rockier" material really will rock. I just can't listen to Honeycomb, songs like Dark End of the Street actually depress me, SMYT never got in the slightest bit depressing, even if it was perhaps meant to be. HONEYCOMB DEPRESSES YOU - stick that on yer front cover sticker.
Franks voice just wasn't meant for this kind of music, and it isn't up to the job. |
Edited by - Suicide_Samurai on 10/09/2005 14:08:29 |
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Jason
* Dog in the Sand *
1446 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2005 : 14:23:57
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If I hadn't heard HONEYCOMB, Suicide Samurai's post would make me really want to hear it.
Me, I'm not a big fan of HONEYCOMB, but I don't see what the big deal is among a few of you ("I don't like HONEYCOMB and Frank is not being the man of God he so often claims to be"??). Frank's a very prolific songwriter/musician and this is just ONE record out of the many he's already made and the many he will make in the future.
Take a deep breath and get over it. |
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Zsolt G.
- FB Fan -
117 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2005 : 16:30:28
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I posted this in another topic, but it's probably more relevant here. In the big "comes with a smile" interview, it's interesting how Frank says that he took a "hands off" approach on the last two records (FBF and Honeycomb). In both cases he showed up and let others run the show. In my opinion this made for weak results.
I also think that my main problem with Honeycomb is not it's maturity, but that it revolves around the "soul" idiom, which I find not to be Frank's forte. He's out of his depth on things like "Dark End of the Street". He's not Van Morrison for Crissakes. Burrito Bros. couldn't do it straight either, so they adapted it to their own sound. Sorry to be negative, but obviously I bought the record, so I earned the right to complain. anyways, I'm ready to rock again, please! |
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Carl
- A 'Fifth' Catholic -
Ireland
11546 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2005 : 18:15:37
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| Thanks for posting those pics, Coffee!! |
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OldManInaCoffeeCan
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1467 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2005 : 18:19:52
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Hey Carl, check out my Honeycomb showcase thread. I've posted all the new ones I received from Lea there.
______________________________
I joined the noisy cult of six-sixty-six when I somehow agreed to the Registration Policy
********
"I'm more of a self-indulgent epic kind of guy." King Charles IV
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Carl
- A 'Fifth' Catholic -
Ireland
11546 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2005 : 18:22:59
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| Cool, will do!! |
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OldManInaCoffeeCan
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1467 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2005 : 18:23:55
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warning: off-topic one more time and that's it, I promise
quote:
Originally posted by Doog
Woah, are they recent photos? Custom made Teles with the same tremolo bridges as his Pixies-era white Contemporary Tele! Nice! :D
[/guitar geek]
"Early to bed and early to rise makes a man healthy, morecambe and wise"
www.myspace.com/doog - www.doog.tk
Yeah, pretty damn cool, huh!
Hey Doog, check out my Honeycomb showcase thread for more great pics. And if you want to send me your email address
(I can use a HP program to send you thumbnails that you can open and save) I've got some great ones of
The Duke of Fender with his Fenders!
______________________________
I joined the noisy cult of six-sixty-six when I somehow agreed to the Registration Policy
********
"I'm more of a self-indulgent epic kind of guy." King Charles IV
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Edited by - OldManInaCoffeeCan on 10/09/2005 18:24:33 |
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spunXtain
= Cult of Ray =
USA
377 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2005 : 19:26:46
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when were those pics taken?
Got coffee, got donuts, got wasted.. |
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johnnyribcage
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1301 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2005 : 19:40:33
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| The albums by any artist that get a core fan base stirred up this much often go down as classics. I have to agree with the statement that it's very difficult to compare one FB album with another. Many have similarities, but how can one compare as a big picture BLD with FB, or that album with COR, or that with Trompe, etc? I'd say Honeycomb is undoubtedly his farthest departure from his normal sound, but I really enjoy it. It's not for every mood. I'd say 9 of 10 times I'd reach for a different FB disc before this one, but when I'm feeling it, it hits the spot. Didn't everyone see this album coming anyway? He's been downshifting for years. That doesn't mean he won't turn around and redline it when we least expect it - it's Frank Black, man! I'm anticipating a re-energized Frank coming off this Pixies reunion (once he's had time to recharge the batteries), though I expect this new disc to be more of the latterday catholics style with some honeycomb mixed in, which is fine by me. Frank's always been a little uneven anyway. I'll wrap it up here, but keep in mind his prolific output over the last 17 years - a lot of musicians at his point either give up and release greatest hits packages or settle into a rut spinning out the same album over and over. I'm glad he's still following his muse, wherever it may lead. |
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HeywoodJablome
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1485 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2005 : 20:23:53
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| Great job as usual OldMan. |
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Jason
* Dog in the Sand *
1446 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2005 : 22:53:28
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quote:
Originally posted by johnnyribcage
Didn't everyone see this album coming anyway?
I agree with this, though I don't know if I agree with what's around it.
I think I'm one of the few people around who DOESN'T consider HONEYCOMB a giant departure from Frank's previous work. Yes, it's a departure in some ways definitely, but to me a record like HONEYCOMB sounds like something Frank's been heading toward making for several years now.
And I don't even agree that it's "soul music" exactly. There's only one song I'd call "soul music" on it. I also read one review that said it was a full-on country record, which I disagree with (I only hear two "country songs" on it! Maybe three). To me, it just sounds like a timeless rock/pop/folk sorta record. There are some musicians who work in a way that shows us that pop, rock, country, blues, folk, soul, and maybe even jazz are all the same thing (or they at least can be the same thing). Most of them were active in the 60s. Elvis Presley, Glen Campbell, Bob Dylan, Ike & Tina Turner, Lee Hazlewood, Leon Russell, Rolling Stones, and, today, Frank Black.
Personally, I think a few songs on HONEYCOMB are great (this is not an album I'm going to sell or not want to listen to again), but I also think some of Frank's weakest ever songs are on it. And on "Dark End of the Street" Frank sounds almost intimidated by the song, which I guess is understandable given the circumstances, but I don't get anything out of listening to it. I'll take James Carr's version. And, in my opinion, the unreleased Catholics studio version of "Sunday Sunny Mill Valley Groove Day" blows away the version on HONEYCOMB (though I do like the pretty, poppy guitar on it).
For me, HONEYCOMB makes me think of the first Catholics record (though it doesn't sound like it). While I know a lot of people consider the first Catholics album to be really great, I don't (though I do like it). I think Frank got much better at writing the traditional rock/country broken-heart songs as the Catholics progressed (and I think the records sounded better and better as the Catholics progressed). If Frank's gonna continue recording the way he is on HONEYCOMB, I think he'll get better and better at it. More comfortable, less humbled-sounding, and more "hands on". |
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vilainde
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Niue
7441 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2005 : 02:16:45
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Not much to add to the thread, people summed up my opinion quite well. I'm one of those who liked Honeycomb/not all of it though/loved SMYT and BLD/wish Frank returns to weird time signatures and insane yelling. I just wanted to say that I'm glad to see this thread existing with so few people jumping at each other's throat.
Denis
"You know what? You know what? You know what? Shut the fuck up!" |
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Doog
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
1220 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2005 : 02:47:46
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quote:
Originally posted by OldManInaCoffeeCan
Hey Doog, check out my Honeycomb showcase thread for more great pics. And if you want to send me your email address
(I can use a HP program to send you thumbnails that you can open and save) I've got some great ones of
The Duke of Fender with his Fenders!
I caaaan't fiiiiind iiiiiit! 
"Early to bed and early to rise makes a man healthy, morecambe and wise"
www.myspace.com/doog - www.doog.tk |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6192 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2005 : 03:25:38
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haven't read this thread
but I believe the Honeycomb-boo'ing (no way like The Dylan goes electric boo's!)
has more to do with this board being hostile to mr.Tiven and vice versa.
When Honeycomb leaked and later was released, everybody loved it. Very few people didn't like it, but somehow some people and mr.Tiven make it sound like Honeycomb is a big big big issue
to FB-fans, like it divides people in two camps, lovers and haters and that there has to be a battle between them. Saying things like: you need to grow up and stuff.
well, kiss me hiney, every record does that, and there's no way to be so mad at eachother, in this or any other thread. Honeycomb is a damn good record, but I can imagine that some people like DITS or SMYT more, and if you look closely, those latest catholics records aren't all that different from the more 'mature'-sounding Honeycomb.
Let's just wait for the new record, whatever it will bring, Frank will do as he pleases, that's something both the fans and mr.Tiven has to remember. It could all change over night, and that's what we love about the guy.
I mean he did TOTY and he did Pistelero and he did Honeycomb and he does a reunion.
That's diversity (no way it's a wooden ship that we used in the Civil War, anchorman Ron burgundy! ;) )
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God save the Noisies |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6192 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2005 : 03:26:16
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quote:
Originally posted by jtanner
I don't know about this Jon Tiven guy. Seems almost controlling over Frank Black's direction. Could be to Frank what Eugene Landy was to Brian Wilson. Something's not right.
that's very insulting
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God save the Noisies |
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hWolsky
= Cult of Ray =
France
696 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2005 : 04:15:55
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Let an artist be what he wants to be.
Do better if you can.
**** |
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VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2005 : 07:14:52
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quote:
When Honeycomb leaked and later was released, everybody loved it.
Well, it WAS the first new material since SMYT. I'm sure some people were just really excited to hear new Frank songs, but once they had time to digest them, they realized they weren't as great as they seemed at first. Of course, this also works in the opposite direction at times.
That's not to say your point about people disliking Honeycomb because they dislike Mr. Tiven isn't valid, because I've noticed the same thing. I think that's one reason why it's a good idea to separate the artist (or, in this case, the producer) from the art. I'm sure plenty of excellent albums were produced by much worse people than Mr. Tiven. If you were to find this out, would you stop liking those albums? I mean, my favorite album of all time is probably XTC's Skylarking, and Todd Rundgren, who produced it, was apparently a real jerk to the band (or at least to Andy Partridge; there was a strong personality clash between the two of them). That doesn't mean I like the album any less.
I was all out of luck, like a duck that died. I was all out of juice, like a moose denied. |
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lonely persuader
= Cult of Ray =
Ireland
488 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2005 : 07:50:03
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Yo, Jon Tiven. Can i pose a question? and another (doh)....
The end of "my life is in storage" seems very strange, when the main part ends there a really strange change (i've always got frank's strange tempo changes after a while)... but this feels like it was actually a bad take and not fixed??
just when he begins ("i believe in your perfect face"... the slow part)... the change in tempo to slow is (seems wrong)....
anyways, maybe im just an eeegit
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kfs
= Cult of Ray =
USA
889 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2005 : 09:19:40
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| I believe those pics were from the September 10, 2005 show at the Cannery Ballroom in Nashville, TN. That's the show where I got to meet Frank Black. It was a great show! |
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fbc
-= Modulator =-
United Kingdom
4903 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2005 : 09:21:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Suicide_Samurai
How can people say the Catholics had ran their course?
The Catholics time was up, so no more
Just like that! Rolls off the tongue quite nicely,
They gave us more records than the Pixies, who broke up from a greater height.
quote:
but I believe the Honeycomb-boo'ing (no way like The Dylan goes electric boo's!)
has more to do with this board being hostile to mr.Tiven and vice versa.
Agreed. Though I think peoples' dislike of Honeycomb has been mashed together with their unliking of some of Mr. Tiven's words to form one big hate. |
Edited by - fbc on 10/10/2005 09:38:03 |
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two reelers
* Dog in the Sand *
Austria
1036 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2005 : 09:56:06
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i don't get it.
with all he has done, FB will be forever the king for me. just like dylan in this respect. there is no point in saying "this record is bad" or "this record is better". he gave us all his honesty, from pilgrim up to honeycomb. i don't think he ever cared what people think about his work, at least not when he made the albums. and it seems that he can keep this status, which makes me happy. honeycomb doesn't appeal to me as most of his other albums (especially the catholics stuff), but i could never say it is a bad album. frank always was and will always be a songwriter of outstanding quality. and i really don't care much for the production, when a song is good....
also, i could never say "i'm not happy with this direction or that direction..". if i really like an artist, then i like him because of what he is doing and why and how he is doing it (or she). this is not repect, but more admiration of his/her personality - who creates art or whatever you call it which makes me happy. and this is what i'm really thankful for.
just an opinion.
I joined the cult of Souled American / 'cause they are a damn' fine band |
Edited by - two reelers on 10/10/2005 10:00:16 |
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fbc
-= Modulator =-
United Kingdom
4903 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2005 : 10:05:22
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And a great one at that. Opinion, that is.
When all is said and done, there is no greater appreciation of Frank Black than this place (except my house)
I wish we could all be friends and swim in the ever of his greatness. |
Edited by - fbc on 10/10/2005 10:05:43 |
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Jason
* Dog in the Sand *
1446 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2005 : 12:13:52
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When it comes to Frank, I don't even really "judge" his work anymore. I just want to hear it. There are some songs and albums I like more than others, of course, but as long as Frank's singing voice is there, I'll always consider his music a satisfying thing on some level.
I used to work in an office job where I didn't have to talk to anyone for most of the day and I pretty much sat at the computer listening to music 90% of the workday. I would always bring some Frank with me. It didn't matter what. Whether it was TEENAGER OF THE YEAR or BLACK LETTER DAYS or ODDBALLS or a live tape. Sometimes I'd just want to hear some Frank Black and whatever I had on me was good enough. And HONEYCOMB would certainly be good enough.
I look forward to Frank making more records in the vein of HONEYCOMB and becoming better at it. I liked the Catholics, but I don't miss them. The Pixies reunion didn't excite me. I went to one Pixies concert out of curiousity and I don't care if they make a new record or not. I don't miss anything from Frank's past because I think he's been making consistently intelligent and engaging music for the entirety of almost 20 years and I see no reason why he won't continue to, no matter what it sounds like or who he's working with. |
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Stevio10
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
1116 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2005 : 15:18:03
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| Frank Black has nothing to prove, by his own admission he's "in the club". Whether that's good or bad depends on your viewpoint. |
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hWolsky
= Cult of Ray =
France
696 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2005 : 16:14:50
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He's been here and there for so long, despite problems lack of promotion, despite no compromises in his music and his VISION, releasing more than an album a year for 10 YEARS, Jesus Christ!!!
FOR US, bloody hell! He rebirthed the PIXIES!!!
He gave us a lot a pleasure unlike those silly bands that release an album every 4 years. We have the possibily to complain, but do we have the moral right?
I don't think so... It is a bit rude, isn't it?
Frank Black is like a bird, much more beautifull and happy when free and on his own.
Don't be selfish!
Love on you Charles!
(and they call me a fascist... pfff.)
Let him be!
Frank Black is like a b
**** |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2005 : 16:39:51
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there's a difference between complaining and being critial.
what kind of fan doesn't have strong opinions about the artists they admire? Frank is a fan of Lou Reed, but i bet there are some albums of Lou's that he doesn't like.. especially some of the recent ones |
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Flame away, I'm not so happy with Franks direction
