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dougit
- FB Fan -
87 Posts |
 Posted - 10/07/2005 : 14:37:54
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Flame away, I'm not so happy with Franks direction as of late
I have not liked anything he has done since DW, except the Austin city Limits concert.
Sorry, that is how I feel.
Seems like he is trying to be everything to everybody.....
(slap me down......can you say sell-out)
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kathryn
~ Selkie Bride ~
Belgium
15320 Posts |
Posted - 10/07/2005 : 14:44:11
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No flaming! No flaming!
People have the right to express their opinions.
Me, I have bought and will continue to buy everything The Man makes. I have seen as many reunion shows as I could get to (sometimes with great difficulty as my life includes a young child). But truth be told, deep down in my heart of hearts I'm only living for the day when The Catholics rise again.
Sometimes, no matter how shitty things get, you have to just do a little dance. - Frank
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Edited by - kathryn on 10/07/2005 14:45:02 |
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dougit
- FB Fan -
87 Posts |
Posted - 10/07/2005 : 15:43:49
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frank claims to be a man of god, yet sometimes his vanity and
his pride and his ego seem to counter that claim.
sorry, gotta call them like I see them. |
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Jason
* Dog in the Sand *
1446 Posts |
Posted - 10/07/2005 : 16:13:02
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a book for Frank to read.
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Black Noise Maker
- FB Fan -
Australia
12 Posts |
Posted - 10/07/2005 : 17:00:03
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I too long for the day of the Cathlics reunion. @years of pixies reunions have left me bored with surfer rosa.....and Honeycomb? well, that's the only FB release i have pirated and do not intend to buy.
What are you talkin' 'bout today?...
and what was that you say? |
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dayanara
* Dog in the Sand *
Australia
1811 Posts |
Posted - 10/07/2005 : 19:06:29
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honeycomb is the only fb release i flat out haven't liked (and i liked SMYT a lot so don't give me that 'you just don't like country' crap). i don't have a problem with the genre, i have a problem with the quality of the songs. i must admit i'm not pleased to hear he's working with tiven again, hopefully the new album will prove me wrong.
i am sitting here observing my emotional discomfort. |
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spunXtain
= Cult of Ray =
USA
377 Posts |
Posted - 10/07/2005 : 20:50:06
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LOL YOU GUYZ R FAGZ FRANK R00LZ AND HONEYCOMB PWNS YOU FAGS Y DN'T YOU GTFO MY INTERNETS HOMO LOLOL
Got coffee, got donuts, got wasted.. |
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Nemesis
- FB Fan -
24 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2005 : 03:37:10
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| If The Catholics were The Beatles, is Violet Yoko Ono? |
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kathryn
~ Selkie Bride ~
Belgium
15320 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2005 : 04:48:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Nemesis
If The Catholics were The Beatles, is Violet Yoko Ono?
Been on LFB's secret forum, I see.
Sometimes, no matter how shitty things get, you have to just do a little dance. - Frank
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Nemesis
- FB Fan -
24 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2005 : 05:56:49
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| ??????????????? |
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fbc
-= Modulator =-
United Kingdom
4903 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2005 : 06:18:56
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The more I read from this site, the more I believe I'm one of a few who are happy the Catholics are no more. I loved their work, and as a band, they were one of the best I've ever seen play live. But their direction was getting a little predictable, too comfortable and contented for me. Frank knew what he was doing when he called a halt to it. They'd run their course.
My point, not that it is one, most here seem to hark back to the days of the Catholics. I think the real musical brilliance pre-dates them. There is a reason why Teenager of the Year is one of Charles' finest records.
And as funny as the Yoko/Violet comparisson is, we all know Frank's songs and direction is governed by one man and one man only, and no it's not Dave Noisy. It be the man himself.
(Oh, and just a little matter of fact, Jon Tiven has recorded some great FB tracks like Oddball, At The End Of The World, Hate Me and Men In Black to name a few. It's not all Americana) |
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VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2005 : 06:59:45
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Am I the only person here who actually LIKED Honeycomb? Sure, it had its weak spots, but I think it was more consistent in quality than the three preceding Catholics albums. I'm not that concerned with Frank's choice of bandmates, as long as they're good.
I agree with FBC that Frank's pre-Catholics solo work was probably his best, although I do love Dog in the Sand.
I was all out of luck, like a duck that died. I was all out of juice, like a moose denied. |
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kelladwella
= Cult of Ray =
Germany
729 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2005 : 07:07:13
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| VoVat summed it up pretty nicely, I think. |
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kathryn
~ Selkie Bride ~
Belgium
15320 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2005 : 09:15:32
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quote:
Originally posted by VoVat
Honeycomb... had its weak spots, but I think it was more consistent in quality than the three preceding Catholics albums.
I humbly disagree.
Sometimes, no matter how shitty things get, you have to just do a little dance. - Frank
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HeywoodJablome
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1485 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2005 : 09:30:59
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quote:
Originally posted by VoVat
but I think it was more consistent in quality than the three preceding Catholics albums.
I was all out of luck, like a duck that died. I was all out of juice, like a moose denied.
Get a rope. |
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kathryn
~ Selkie Bride ~
Belgium
15320 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2005 : 09:31:21
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I can hang from a good rope.
Sometimes, no matter how shitty things get, you have to just do a little dance. - Frank
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HeywoodJablome
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1485 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2005 : 09:39:47
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Truthfully, I do like Honeycomb a lot, I think for the most part the songs are very good. Something about the production of the record isn't quite right is my only complaint.
Bottom line is it's still worlds' better than most of what's coming out these days. |
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Ziggy
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
2463 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2005 : 09:52:59
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I enjoy listening to 'Honeycomb' a lot. But I'd readily admit that it would be disappointing to see Frank continue to produce records in a similar vein...
To be honest, he's not the kind of artist to be stuck in a rut. I admire his work ethic, so there's little to worry about. |
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fbc
-= Modulator =-
United Kingdom
4903 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2005 : 10:09:32
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You know it Ziggy.
This is the man who split up Pixies because he could. No genre or sound is sacred.
Just listen to the ones you like, and play something else instead of the ones you don't.
quote:
Originally posted by HeywoodJablome
Get a rope.
Make it long enough for two.
I blame Frank really. If his back catalogue wasn't so damn good and way ahead of the rest, then we wouldn't have such expectations like we do for future records.
And i'm sure most of us here are appreciative that we got to hear the Honeycomb songs. It could have been a SSMVGD affair with just a lucky few getting hold of a copy.
Truthfully, the world is a better place with Frank Black songs in it. The more the merrier as far as i'm concerned. Some I like more than others, but best post today:
Bottom line is it's still worlds' better than most of what's coming out these days. |
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Jontiven
= Cult of Ray =
USA
347 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2005 : 11:09:02
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Without getting into a THING, I'd like to address this thread by putting it in context.
Did any of you see the Bob Dylan documentary that was on PBS last week? I hope so. There was footage of his U.K. tour when Dylan was playing the Blonde On Blonde songs in public for the first time, and it was, IMHO, some of the finest musical moments of any performer ever captured on video. Indisputable Musical Godhead.
Many of his "fans" were booing him and yelling out things like "Judas." Not all. A very vocal minority who could not appreciate Blonde On Blonde because they were too attached to his early acoustic recordings. They did not want their artist to grow, they wanted him to stay in one place.
I would like those of you who are railing against HONEYCOMB to conisder that perhaps the work has not knocked you out because you are not ready for it yet. You need to get a little older, a little wiser, a little more heartbroken to appreciate it. It's a very mature album, and not everyone wants that from their favorite artist, but certainly in the face of the positive reinforcement we have gotten from the press, radio, and public on this album, the merit of the work should not be questioned. It's subjective effect upon individuals---be they new fans or old---will vary, depending on where they are in their lives. But there are a great number of people who are deriving great joy from HONEYCOMB, and don't worry if you're not one of them because the next record sounds nothing like it. And in time it may hit you differently.
In closing, after Dylan did his European tour and dealt with audiences of 2/3 loyal fans and 1/3 "booers," he took himself out of commission for seven years. I don't see Frank getting on a motorcycle any time soon, and I'm not saying that everybody has to be a "Rah rah, anything Frank does is great" kind of fan, but artistic growth is a positive thing. Don't expect Frank Black to be moving backwards, he's not that kind of artist.
bye,
Jon Tiven
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VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2005 : 11:30:01
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I think the thing with Frank's work with the Catholics is that most of those albums, particularly BLD and SMYT, took a while to grow on me. Sure, I like them a lot NOW, but it took me multiple listens to appreciate them. I liked more of Honeycomb right away.
As far as "artistic growth" goes, I don't mind an artist making changes. Indeed, the lamest musicians tend to be the ones who just make the same album over and over again. I like variety, and I'm glad I can get two quite different sides of the same artist by playing, say, Honeycomb and Surfer Rosa. On the other hand, if these changes alter what you loved about an artist, I think a fan has every right to complain, and possibly even jump ship (although I DON'T understand people who stop liking the old stuff because the new stuff sucks; that makes no sense whatsoever). So if what you liked about Frank was screaming, live-to-two-track recording, or references to aliens, I can see why you'd be disappointed with Honeycomb. I really don't think the overall song quality is any worse on Honeycomb than on earlier albums, though. In some ways, it's better, although maybe less eccentric.
I was all out of luck, like a duck that died. I was all out of juice, like a moose denied. |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2005 : 13:33:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Jontiven
I would like those of you who are railing against HONEYCOMB to conisder that perhaps the work has not knocked you out because you are not ready for it yet. You need to get a little older, a little wiser, a little more heartbroken to appreciate it.
Blah. Sure tastes vary. Some will like it and others not, but it's bull to say that those that don't aren't mature enough. You don't know who we are. And the comparison to Dylan plugging in is over-reaching. The step from SMYT and Honeycomb wasn't that large, but in my opinion the quality of the song writing went down. Also, I think it's neat that studio musicians can step in and play a song so quickly, but perhaps songs improve when they have some time to stew. |
Edited by - darwin on 10/08/2005 15:02:37 |
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Devils Islander
- FB Fan -
United Kingdom
101 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2005 : 13:57:38
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...and just look what they did to SSMVGD.
...where the Ballyhoos and the Tritons are. |
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VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2005 : 15:46:27
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Yeah, I agree with Darwin. As I've established, I like Honeycomb. I don't see it as particularly "mature," though, just mellower and more intricate (in some ways). I guess I can sort of see how that could be described as "mature," but I don't like the word choice because it implies that both people who don't appreciate it are "immature," as, presumably, are Frank's earlier albums. That's kind of a value judgment, isn't it? "Artist growth" is the same way.
I was all out of luck, like a duck that died. I was all out of juice, like a moose denied. |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2005 : 16:08:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Jontiven
but certainly in the face of the positive reinforcement we have gotten from the press, radio, and public on this album, the merit of the work should not be questioned.
i think if the press and radio can judge the merit of the album, so can the fans. like darwin said, some people like it and some people don't. saying people who don't like it lack maturity is a cop out. i think most people here are intelligent and mature enough to make their own judgements; everyone's opinion of the album is valid. |
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HeywoodJablome
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1485 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2005 : 16:18:09
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| I think all he's trying to say is that if you had gone through some similar experiences of said artist you may appreciate and identify with the record a bit more. I don't think he's attempting to insult anyones' intelligence here. |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2005 : 16:23:56
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| saying you need to be "a little older and wiser" to appreciate the record sounds condescending to me |
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Doog
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
1220 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2005 : 16:54:00
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I reckon, as cool as stuff like Honeycomb is, there's already been guys doing that for 40 years. I don't believe FB has topped that sound since DITS, and don't believe he will again. Gimme some wonky, interesting, amusing, manic, genre-defying rock music any day of the week.
www.myspace.com/doog - www.doog.tk |
Edited by - Doog on 10/08/2005 16:55:16 |
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kathryn
~ Selkie Bride ~
Belgium
15320 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2005 : 17:38:29
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quote:
Originally posted by floop
saying you need to be "a little older and wiser" to appreciate the record sounds condescending to me
Me too. Totally.
Sometimes, no matter how shitty things get, you have to just do a little dance. - Frank
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IceCream
= Quote Accumulator =
USA
1850 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2005 : 19:15:02
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FBC, I agree.
Frank Black and Teenager of The Year (and Trompe) are 3 of the greatest albums of the 1990s. After FB and TOTY, I feel Frank just stopped experimenting. His subsequent albums seemed to work backwards. They didn't progress; they retreated. There aren't any wild experiments on FB&C the likes of "Parry the Wind High, Low" or "Pure Denizen of the Citizens Band". Compare melody of "White Noise Maker" with "All My Ghosts" - the latter is, quite simply, less fresh and interesting.
With SMYT, Frank headed further in a direction of bad music. Granted, though I thought COR to DW were bad relative to the first two cds, they still had plenty of good songs relative to rock music in general. I rate Pistolero and parts of DW as better-than-average rock albums. But SMYT is bad on any scale. Frank took his "rootsy, traditional" direction too far. I don't mind an unoriginal chord progression now and then (Neil Young's "Hey Hey, My My is one of my favorite songs ever), but songs like "Horrible Day" and "New House of the Pope" don't display one iota of orignality - ironic coming from a guy who, less than ten years earlier, was annihilating tradition and breaking every standard imaginable. I seriously believe Frank put less effort into writing SMYT than TOTY. "I lay down with a movie and I started to feel ok" vs. "I'm headed for the stereo store to get a white noise maker and turn it up to ten", hmmm.... |
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IceCream
= Quote Accumulator =
USA
1850 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2005 : 19:22:46
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A few rare exceptions:
"My Life Is In Storage" is a sweet song (well, the beginning anyway) and "Pan American Highway" is one of the best songs ever recorded. |
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Jontiven
= Cult of Ray =
USA
347 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2005 : 19:43:49
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Dear those of thin skin,
No condescension intended. I'd love to be young and innocent myself, but once you get past a certain age threshold it's inevitable that your view of the world changes through time and experience. Certain songs which eluded your grasp earlier in life suddenly are emotionally accessible.
The next album is completely different anyhow, so don't look upon it as an extension or a natural progression. We have thrown out the rule book. We're mixing soon, so hopefully it'll get into the release schedule relatively soon, and no telling what it'll be called.
bye,
Jon Tiven
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2005 : 20:33:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Jontiven
Dear those of thin skin,
No condescension intended. I'd love to be young and innocent myself, but once you get past a certain age threshold it's inevitable that your view of the world changes through time and experience. Certain songs which eluded your grasp earlier in life suddenly are emotionally accessible.
Dear passive aggressive,
So stop the condescension. I am a 36 year old college professor, plenty mature enough (this forum is full of mature adults). I didn't like Honeycomb as much as previous Frank Black albums and I don't think I will when I'm 65 or if I ever suffer a divorce.
Aren't you a professional? Haven't you learned to take a little criticism? Maybe that's something that comes at "certain age threshold". |
Edited by - darwin on 10/08/2005 20:47:06 |
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PixieSteve
> Teenager of the Year <
Poland
4698 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2005 : 20:42:15
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also, i'm an 18 year old college student, plenty of immaturity, and i like honeycomb quite a lot. so much for that theory.
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dayanara
* Dog in the Sand *
Australia
1811 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2005 : 21:06:40
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it's beyond hilarious that you think we're the ones with thin skin, jon.
i'm not that nostalgic for the catholics and i could really care less who tours with him at this point (although the two year long reunion thing is getting pretty boring), i just want frank to start making great music again. could be bluesy country music, could be rock, could be whatever. he's always blown me away in the past and i'm sure he can and will again, but honeycomb was not great music.
i am sitting here observing my emotional discomfort. |
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BLT
> Teenager of the Year <
South Sandwich Islands
4204 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2005 : 21:49:26
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| By the time some of us are "older" and "wiser" we'll be dead. And dead people don't buy CDs. |
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Flame away, I'm not so happy with Franks direction
