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Llamadance
> Teenager of the Year <
United Kingdom
2543 Posts |
 Posted - 06/22/2005 : 23:28:28
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Here's a philosophy website which has a few thought provoking games
http://www.philosophersnet.com/games/. One of them is Battleground God, which essentially tests your thoughts on religion.
When I did it a couple years ago, I got one hit and one bullet. I'll try it again later when I get a chance. Some of the other games on that site are good too.
quote:
I found Tre's question about only seeking local religions to be interesting. A lot of people simply accept the religion of their parents, or someone else in their own society. What if it turns out that the one true faith (assuming there is one) isn't something they practice in your area? I don't necessarily think choosing a convenient religion is a bad thing, but I'm coming at this from an outsider's perspective. If you really want to practice the correct religion, doesn't it make sense to consider ALL of them?
There's a saying "you don't choose your religion, your religion chooses you" which echoes this. Many people accept the religion of their parents without thought. I'll bet many people who don't believe in god, but were born into a catholic family, still think of themselves as a catholic.
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No power in the 'verse can stop me
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Broken Face
-= Forum Pistolero =-
USA
5155 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2005 : 13:02:27
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Originally posted by Llamadance...
One of the most important things about religion it seems to me is the sense of community it brings to people. Unfortunately that sense of community is often used by so-called cults to bring people into their fold. How do the religious people on the forum feel about that, and can there be parallels drawn between mainstream religions and these cults? Obviously there are differences, eg cults are usually led by a strongly charasmatic,living, figurehead
Brian's response: I feel that it is a very true comparison and unfortunately, many times people confuse the 2. but i think that pretty much any organization attracts people b/c of the members and their relationship with each other - who'd join a club full of non-communicative assholes? the sense of community is important to any and all organizations, and i feel that cults exploit that because it is something we are all familiar with.
Originally posted by floop...
how come when a woman has a miscarriage they don't give the aborted foetus its last rites, yet most Catholics are against abortion because they consider foetus' human beings
Brian's response: Tony, there is no such thing as 'last rites' - the sacrament you speak of is often times called that, but is modernly understood and known as the annointing of the sick. this can happen at any stage in life and is not limited to just life and death situations (although that is where it is most common). Nothing is done to a Catholic body post-death or directly pre-death (minus the sacrament if that is when it is received) differently than any other body.
Originally posted by starmekitten...
From my wobbly memory here floop, when a baby dies unchristened, it does not go to heaven or hell but purgatory, purgatory is a stop gap between the transition to heaven and this is a strictly catholic belief, in catholic prayer you pray for the deceased and the family of the deceased, in most other denominations you don't pray for the deceased because they have gone to their afterlife, ie to heaven. Catholics pray for those in purgatory to help quicken the passage through to heaven, purgatory is like a punishment, thats too strong a word, you know, typically 'hell' is the punishment and purgatory is where people have to go to work through the sins before moving on. An unchristened child is still carrying original sin and so has to go to purgatory, christening I believe absolves original sin. Christening, Confirmation and the last rites are all, ach whats the word... sacraments, rites of passage catholics have seven (buggered if I can remember all of them) and extreme unction (is that right?) or the last rites is the one to ease passage into death. I only know the catholic slant here and I may have confused it, I'll check, I know when my nan passed it was one of the first things I asked, if she recieved them, I was glad she did.
Brian's response: WOAH! Tre, you have fallen for a very common misconception. Pre-Vatican II (the second vatican council, 1961-1965 i think), the teaching was that unbaptized babies went to a place called LIMBO where it was neither heaven nor hell. At Vatican II, this was looked at and since there was no scriptural or doctrinal support, it was dismissed. It is now beleived that any child that is not baptized goes to heaven, as it has done nothing wrong. The limbo thing was whack.
-Brian
If you move I shoots!
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PixieSteve
> Teenager of the Year <
Poland
4698 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2005 : 13:06:16
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but it's all whack brian. the vatican gets something wrong... why did they think it was right in the first place? maybe they're wrong about a lot of other stuff... maybe none of it is true. what's the point in listening to the vatican at all?
 Oh let it linger |
Edited by - PixieSteve on 06/23/2005 13:10:32 |
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starmekitten
-= Forum Pistolera =-
United Kingdom
6370 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2005 : 13:07:27
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Hold on a second, I thought it was that all people, not just the baby people, that had unresolved sin went to purgatory to work through that, it's been a long time since sunday school and a good eight years since I last stepped in a church for anything other than funerals or weddings but I remember talking to my nan about this and she was old school Irish catholic. So have I just gotten that totally wrong, wow, goes to show how little I actually do know.
thanks for the correction.
Has done no wrong, what about original sin? I thought that counted.
I know nothing!
The easiest way to sleep at night is to carry on believing that I don't exist |
Edited by - starmekitten on 06/23/2005 13:10:26 |
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Llamadance
> Teenager of the Year <
United Kingdom
2543 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2005 : 13:26:40
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quote:
Originally posted by BrokenFace
Brian's response: I feel that it is a very true comparison and unfortunately, many times people confuse the 2. but i think that pretty much any organization attracts people b/c of the members and their relationship with each other - who'd join a club full of non-communicative assholes? the sense of community is important to any and all organizations, and i feel that cults exploit that because it is something we are all familiar with.
I think I would join a badminton club because I wanted to play badminton, not because of the people who played there. Of course if they were non-communicative assholes I'd either leave, or enjoy beating the hell out of them every week even more ;) If I left, I'd find a new badminton club, if I wanted to play that much.
oh, and a religious joke: A Bhuddist goes up to a hot dog vendor and says, "make me one with everything".
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No power in the 'verse can stop me
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Cheeseman1000
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Iceland
8201 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2005 : 13:31:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Llamadance
I think I would join a badminton club because I wanted to play badminton, not because of the people who played there. Of course if they were non-communicative assholes I'd either leave, or enjoy beating the hell out of them every week even more ;) If I left, I'd find a new badminton club, if I wanted to play that much.
Ah, the Sport Of Kings. You're a wise man, Llama my boy.
What's a computer?
Eat Y'self Fitter! |
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danjersey
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
2792 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2005 : 13:37:14
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pray a little faster |
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starmekitten
-= Forum Pistolera =-
United Kingdom
6370 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2005 : 13:39:40
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And what is that about danjersey?
The easiest way to sleep at night is to carry on believing that I don't exist |
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danjersey
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
2792 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2005 : 13:44:21
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it's a picture i took, one in a series that has roots in faith.
you know taking portraits in graveyards |
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VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2005 : 18:59:32
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quote:
Has done no wrong, what about original sin?
I don't believe in original sin!
I was all out of luck, like a duck that died. I was all out of juice, like a moose denied. |
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kathryn
~ Selkie Bride ~
Belgium
15320 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2005 : 19:07:47
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quote:
Originally posted by danjersey
pray a little faster
Best...post...ever!
I still believe in the excellent joy of the Catholics
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Daisy Girl
~ Abstract Brain ~
Belize
5305 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2005 : 20:03:11
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Broken Face rocks... and the song does too!!  |
Edited by - Daisy Girl on 06/23/2005 20:03:30 |
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Broken Face
-= Forum Pistolero =-
USA
5155 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2005 : 12:45:10
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Originally posted by Pixie Steve...
but it's all whack brian. the vatican gets something wrong... why did they think it was right in the first place? maybe they're wrong about a lot of other stuff... maybe none of it is true. what's the point in listening to the vatican at all?
Brian's Retort: Steve, it's a good thing you live in England, where the government has never done anything wrong, or else you would kick yourself for belonging to/listening to a group that has made, and corrected, mistakes before. Come to think of it, you must have never taken anything any person or organization has ever done seriously, b/c of the errors they have made in the past. I don't disagree that you could argue that it all could be bullshit (as many believe), but i don't think that errors denote total rejection. FB has made mistakes (not releasing SSMVGD) but i still will buy his records and respect him as an artist. Just because someone/something makes errors, it does not mean that it can never be correct about anything.
Originally posted by starmekitten...
Hold on a second, I thought it was that all people, not just the baby people, that had unresolved sin went to purgatory to work through that, it's been a long time since sunday school and a good eight years since I last stepped in a church for anything other than funerals or weddings but I remember talking to my nan about this and she was old school Irish catholic. So have I just gotten that totally wrong, wow, goes to show how little I actually do know.
thanks for the correction.
Has done no wrong, what about original sin? I thought that counted.
I know nothing!
Brian's Retort: Tre, purgatory is totally unrelated to the 'limbo' that unbaptized babies went to in the olden days of thought. Purgatory is a really simple concept that i will try and explain with a metaphor: Imagine that a doctor has to go into a room with a burn victim. No matter how good or bad that doctor is, he is going to need to scrub up and change his/her clothes to be sanitary enough to visit the patient.
In theory, heaven is a place where there is only perfection, because God is there, and God is perfect. We all as humans sin, and therefore we are imperfect. So, for the imperfect to enter perfection, there must be a cleansing process. Hence purgatory - where we can reflect on our mistakes and through prayer, correct them.
I don't know if i buy the purgatory thing, but thats the easiest explanation for it.
-Brian
If you move I shoots!
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starmekitten
-= Forum Pistolera =-
United Kingdom
6370 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2005 : 13:19:15
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Just as a warning to you all.
I've put the coffee machine on.
I want to live, breathe, I want to be part of the human race |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2005 : 13:25:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Broken Face
In theory, heaven is a place where there is only perfection, because God is there, and God is perfect. We all as humans sin, and therefore we are imperfect. So, for the imperfect to enter perfection, there must be a cleansing process. Hence purgatory - where we can reflect on our mistakes and through prayer, correct them.
so even unborn babies have human sin?
that's kind of a bummer outlook on us isn't it?
do you have anything to add to that kathryn? |
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Newo
~ Abstract Brain ~
Spain
2674 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2005 : 13:39:15
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quote:
Broken Face Posted - 06/25/2005 : 12:45:10
heaven is a place where there is only perfection
That sounds mindnumbingly boring. Beck gave an interview with Michael Gondry a while back and said on his new record he made himself play most of the instruments and so a lot of times the bass would be really off and he would play it till he got it perfect but would invariably go back to using the first take cause that was the one that had the life.
--
"Here love," brakes on a high squeak, "itīs not backstage at the old Windmill or something, you know." |
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starmekitten
-= Forum Pistolera =-
United Kingdom
6370 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2005 : 13:55:11
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Beck the scientologist...
I want to live, breathe, I want to be part of the human race |
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VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2005 : 14:38:07
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quote:
FB has made mistakes (not releasing SSMVGD) but i still will buy his records and respect him as an artist.
Yeah, but there's never been a Bull of Frankblackian Infallibility, has there? :P
I was all out of luck, like a duck that died. I was all out of juice, like a moose denied. |
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Newo
~ Abstract Brain ~
Spain
2674 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2005 : 14:57:16
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It was called Teenager Of The Year.
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"Here love," brakes on a high squeak, "itīs not backstage at the old Windmill or something, you know." |
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Cheeseman1000
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Iceland
8201 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2005 : 16:23:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Newo
quote:
Broken Face Posted - 06/25/2005 : 12:45:10
heaven is a place where there is only perfection
That sounds mindnumbingly boring. Beck gave an interview with Michael Gondry a while back and said on his new record he made himself play most of the instruments and so a lot of times the bass would be really off and he would play it till he got it perfect but would invariably go back to using the first take cause that was the one that had the life.
--
"Here love," brakes on a high squeak, "itīs not backstage at the old Windmill or something, you know."
Yes, it would suck to be perfect.
Define perfect: without flaws maybe? Boringness is a flaw surely. So by extension, surely perfection wouldn't be boring?
What's a computer?
Eat Y'self Fitter! |
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kathryn
~ Selkie Bride ~
Belgium
15320 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2005 : 17:53:50
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The very idea of human sin is offensive.
I still believe in the excellent joy of the Catholics
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VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2005 : 20:17:02
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Well, YOUR human sins offend ME!
Zing!
I was all out of luck, like a duck that died. I was all out of juice, like a moose denied. |
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danjersey
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
2792 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2005 : 20:37:14
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I would fight the Army of Darkness even if i lost my faith.
" I gave my ham to the Devil " |
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Broken Face
-= Forum Pistolero =-
USA
5155 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2005 : 21:55:44
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quote:
Originally posted by kathryn
The very idea of human sin is offensive.
This interests me kat, do you think that any and everything is ok (ie. there is no sin because there are no bad deeds?) or do you think that we simply shouldn't feel unneccesary guilt for things? expand on this por favor
-Brian
If you move I shoots!
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2005 : 02:47:13
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| Can you have sin without a god? |
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starmekitten
-= Forum Pistolera =-
United Kingdom
6370 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2005 : 05:27:55
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well everyone has a moral framework, going against that is sin under a different name I think.
(note the 'I think' there, I know nothing)
I want to live, breathe, I want to be part of the human race |
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danjersey
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
2792 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2005 : 05:34:53
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it's sunday and i'm not going to church and i'm ok with that.
" I gave my ham to the Devil " |
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kathryn
~ Selkie Bride ~
Belgium
15320 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2005 : 07:00:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Broken Face
quote:
Originally posted by kathryn
The very idea of human sin is offensive.
This interests me kat, do you think that any and everything is ok (ie. there is no sin because there are no bad deeds?) or do you think that we simply shouldn't feel unneccesary guilt for things? expand on this por favor
-Brian
If you move I shoots!
Obviously sin exists. People shouldn't do certain things (abuse of children immediately comes to mind).
But I take great offense at the idea of original sin. The widely held belief that in our deepest nature we are sin-filled is wrong and bad.
Re: guilt - I don't believe in guilt. You do what you do and if it violates your own sense of ethics, then you suffer the consequences of your actions and feel shitty. But I don't believe in guilt as a means of controlling societal behavior.
I still believe in the excellent joy of the Catholics
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danjersey
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
2792 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2005 : 08:14:04
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i went food shopping and used faith to get me through the deli line.
" I gave my ham to the Devil " |
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Broken Face
-= Forum Pistolero =-
USA
5155 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2005 : 08:44:41
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I don't think original sin needs to be understood as that we are inherently evil. original sin is a concept that is there more to protect than anything else i believe in the original scheme of things. original sin was a way to let people know that no one could be perfect, nor could they claim to be (ie. without sin) - it is a way to explain why we all, at times, do shitty things to ourselves and one another. i disagree with the idea that original sin damns us, it doesn't, but i do believe that there is no way a human being could live without sin - it is a part of our existance, and original sin is simply another way of stating that.
and danjersey, there are people here trying to have a relevant conversation, please take your mockery elsewhere. thanks.
-Brian
If you move I shoots!
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danjersey
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
2792 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2005 : 08:55:31
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you love your Pulpit don't ya? and i'm relating not mocking. see you gone and judged me,but it's ok i understand.
" I gave my ham to the Devil " |
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kathryn
~ Selkie Bride ~
Belgium
15320 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2005 : 09:00:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Broken Face
I don't think original sin needs to be understood as that we are inherently evil. original sin is a concept that is there more to protect than anything else i believe in the original scheme of things. original sin was a way to let people know that no one could be perfect, nor could they claim to be (ie. without sin) - it is a way to explain why we all, at times, do shitty things to ourselves and one another. i disagree with the idea that original sin damns us, it doesn't, but i do believe that there is no way a human being could live without sin - it is a part of our existance, and original sin is simply another way of stating that.
-Brian
If you move I shoots!
Then we are in agreement, Brian. I never thought of the concept of original sin that way but I definitely know on a daily, personal basis that we humans are not without sin.
I still believe in the excellent joy of the Catholics
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starmekitten
-= Forum Pistolera =-
United Kingdom
6370 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2005 : 09:01:43
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quote:
Originally posted by danjersey
i went food shopping and used faith to get me through the deli line.
May'haps I'm reading it wrong but it reads like mockery to me.
I want to live, breathe, I want to be part of the human race |
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kathryn
~ Selkie Bride ~
Belgium
15320 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2005 : 09:04:51
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Brian, if I may add, does the idea of man's imperfect nature etc. upset you? Is it something to rid or something to observe (as you write "it's part of our existence"). I am not phrasing this correctly. It's very humid here. Sorry. Perhaps you'll get what I'm asking. I get the sense that the Catholic Church, in particular, is intent on denying or eradicating this intergal part of being human.
I still believe in the excellent joy of the Catholics
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Edited by - kathryn on 06/26/2005 09:12:23 |
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kathryn
~ Selkie Bride ~
Belgium
15320 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2005 : 09:11:30
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quote:
Originally posted by darwin
Can you have sin without a god?
I have no god but I believe in sin.
I still believe in the excellent joy of the Catholics
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personal evolution
