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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
 Posted - 06/05/2005 : 12:02:57
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so, admittedly, i don't really know much about STAR WARS. i never really got into it. but i went to the recent one. and i've been renting the old ones.. and it's kind of fun.
i'm sure some of you (Dean) have watched these films 10,000 times and have a zillion opinions..
is it me or did RETURN OF THE JEDI kind of suck in comparison to EMPIRE STRIKES BACK?
also, i had no idea that Leia had such a killer body until seeing RETURN OF THE JEDI, when Jabba the Hut makes her his slave and she's wearing that crazy outfit. why didn't George Lucas have her wear an outfit like that for the whole series??
so many questions... |
Edited by - floop on 06/05/2005 12:42:33 |
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whoreatthedoor
> Teenager of the Year <
Spain
2873 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2005 : 12:23:48
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Hmmmmm... that bikini filled my wet dreams as a teenager.
El amor es la distancia más larga entre un punto y otro |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2005 : 12:50:07
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| also, at the end of JEDI.. when Luke goes to confront the emperor palpatine.. how come he can't just kill him? isn't that what he went to do there in the first place? Luke says, basically, "i won't kill you and join the dark side" but wouldn't killing him be fighting for the good side? |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6289 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2005 : 13:24:54
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he came there to confront Darth Vader
and knew there was something good in him left
killing everybody is something a sith would do
but yeah, he could have killed him actually
ESB is my favourite SW movie. am I the only one who thinks that Leia is killer in the first movie,
I love her white robe. Never cared for the golden bikini thing
 "I joined the cult of Jon Tiven/Bye!" |
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TRANSMARINE
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
2002 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2005 : 17:42:48
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Yes, Floop. Return of the Jedi is crappy in comparison to Star Wars and Empire. I will go so far as to say Revenge of the Sith was better than Jedi. And Carrie Fisher did have a killer shape at that time...partly because she was strung out on coke and crystal meth. Just a side note, and please everyone don't jump on me because die hards know this as a well known fact...it's for poor Floop...Return of the Jedi was originally called Revenge of the Jedi, but changed just prior to release because Lucas wasn't comfortable with Luke striking back out of 'revenge'. What a maroon. Also, this fact wreaked havoc with Star Trek 2: The Wrath of Khan one year earlier. Knowing that Jedi would hit the theatres the following summer, Paramount changed the then-titled Star Trek 2: The Vengence of Khan to 'Wrath' in fear it would 'confuse' audiences. Lucas got the last laugh (as is seemingly the case these days) and Roddenberry is probably still spinning in his...urn. Anyhow, just a tidbit.
Goddamnit I am a total nerd!
I was alone...in my BIG BED
-bRIAN |
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Sir Rockabye
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1158 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2005 : 17:52:37
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I saw Sith last night. Reminded me why I loved the original trilogy so much. I'm going to have to sit down and watch Episodes IV-VI again one of these days.
You run all kinds of red lights except the ones on the street.
When you run out of exits you can always count sheep. |
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speedy_m
= Frankofile =
Canada
3581 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2005 : 18:32:56
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Luke goes to confront Vader, not kill the Emperor, as billgoodman said. He could not have killed the Emperor, I beleive because a)the Emperor was more powerful and b)Vader would not have let him. Luke tries to strike Palpatine but Vader stops him. It's Vader Luke refuses to kill, not the Emperor. He rejects the idea of killing Vader (because of his anger and fear for Leia), and thus rejects joining the dark side. He would rather die than go down that path (as his father did). They were faced with the same choice, and Luke made right one.
And Jedi don't seek Revenge, their motivations are more pure. Return of the Jedi is a far more fitting title, as Luke's emergence as a Jedi Knight signaled the return. Revenge of the Sith is better for Episode 3 because a Sith would seek revenge.
I am God's brother, his soul mate and team mate/He passes me info-mation/and I reciprocate |
Edited by - speedy_m on 06/05/2005 18:33:30 |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2005 : 18:38:40
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yeah but he goes to confront Vader with the ultimate goal being that, once he confronts Vader, his true Jedi-ness will kick in and then he can fuck shit up and take down the Empire? am i wrong?
what's the point of just confronting Vader? aren't they all trying to bring down the Empire?
as for fear for Leia. wouldn't letting himself be killed be worse for Leia? because then Vader would just go after her? |
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tobafett
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1713 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2005 : 21:04:50
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quote:
Originally posted by floop
yeah but he goes to confront Vader with the ultimate goal being that, once he confronts Vader, his true Jedi-ness will kick in and then he can fuck shit up and take down the Empire? am i wrong?
what's the point of just confronting Vader? aren't they all trying to bring down the Empire?
as for fear for Leia. wouldn't letting himself be killed be worse for Leia? because then Vader would just go after her?
No. He has to confront Vader to take him out to make the galaxy safe for the return of the Jedi order. Luke is the only guy who can kill DV. if he kills DV in anger, which the Emperor wants him to do, which he ain't gonna do, then he's allowing himself to travel down the dark path. he kills DV only when pushed to do so, in self-defense.
It woulda been worse for Leia...it would have been like telling a hunter there are baby seal pups 'round the next iceberg. she woulda been a threat, albeit academically-Forcewise, to DV and the Emperor.
and yes, billg, i think Carrie was HOT in the first film...NICE white dress:) |
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edbanky
= Cult of Ray =
Burkina Faso (Upper Volta)
388 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2005 : 21:47:15
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Ah! So he goes through the travails associated with finding and confronting DV, with his fingers crossed that pops will throw the first punch.
I'd be willing to go with: Luke intended all along to cauterize some severed heads in love and compassion, thereby avoiding the naughty anger that makes you evil.
One good thing in his casting of pops Skywalker for EPS I-III is that Lucas remained consistent showing that whiny wussy non-personalities run in the fambly. I'm still of the mind the Han was the true hope for the rebellion, since he was somewhat likeable and had male genitalia.
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I signed up for the FrankBlack.net forums and all I got was this lousy signature. |
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Surfer Rosa
> Teenager of the Year <
4209 Posts |
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Joey Joe Jo Jr. Chabadoo
* Dog in the Sand *
1091 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2005 : 05:41:23
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piew piew..
Bling bling...
Wizzzz....
hWolsky has gone to the Marc Almond Forum... Are you happy now?! |
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tobafett
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1713 Posts |
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Surfer Rosa
> Teenager of the Year <
4209 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2005 : 08:09:23
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| but also funny funny funny. |
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The Holiday Son
= Quote Accumulator =
France
2023 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2005 : 08:10:39
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| I don't know if it's sad or funny. maybe both. |
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Surfer Rosa
> Teenager of the Year <
4209 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2005 : 08:12:46
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| I think it depends on why exactly you're buying it for you dog. |
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cassandra is
> Teenager of the Year <
France
4233 Posts |
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Surfer Rosa
> Teenager of the Year <
4209 Posts |
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Homers_pet_monkey
= Official forum monkey =
United Kingdom
17125 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2005 : 11:26:38
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quote:
Originally posted by tobafett
quote:
Originally posted by floop
yeah but he goes to confront Vader with the ultimate goal being that, once he confronts Vader, his true Jedi-ness will kick in and then he can fuck shit up and take down the Empire? am i wrong?
what's the point of just confronting Vader? aren't they all trying to bring down the Empire?
as for fear for Leia. wouldn't letting himself be killed be worse for Leia? because then Vader would just go after her?
No. He has to confront Vader to take him out to make the galaxy safe for the return of the Jedi order. Luke is the only guy who can kill DV. if he kills DV in anger, which the Emperor wants him to do, which he ain't gonna do, then he's allowing himself to travel down the dark path. he kills DV only when pushed to do so, in self-defense.
It woulda been worse for Leia...it would have been like telling a hunter there are baby seal pups 'round the next iceberg. she woulda been a threat, albeit academically-Forcewise, to DV and the Emperor.
and yes, billg, i think Carrie was HOT in the first film...NICE white dress:)
Luke doesn't kill Vader, Vader kills himself and takes The Emperor with him. Luke just kicks his ass.
And floop you are right, ESB is miles better than ROTJ. It's the best one full stop.
I guess floop WAS right!
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tobafett
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1713 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2005 : 13:04:32
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You got me there, HPM...thanks for the clarification and sayin' what i meant to say.
esb is great. ep. iv is still my fave, however... |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2005 : 13:17:14
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am i the only one who, watching EMPIRE, kind of wanted Luke to join the dark side? i mean, yeah, it's evil and all that.. but you have to admit it could have been kind of cool. father and son fucking shit up..
anyone with me? |
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whoreatthedoor
> Teenager of the Year <
Spain
2873 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2005 : 13:27:16
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No. Go and join the Dark Side, Tony.
El amor es la distancia más larga entre un punto y otro |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2005 : 13:33:24
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i didn't think that would go over well with STAR WARS fans..
i'm just saying though, wouldn't you be tempted if you were him? or are you that loyal of a Jedi?
i have to say, as much as RETURN OF THE JEDI had its weaknesses, that was some sad shit when Yoda died |
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Broken Face
-= Forum Pistolero =-
USA
5157 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2005 : 13:42:47
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yes - jedi is totally flawed, but it does hit the important points through all the stupid ewok shit and rebuilding of the death star:
a) Luke's refusal to kill, and in doing so, becoming a full Jedi - we are almost certainly meant to believe that Luke will train Leia and hopefully more Jedi with the help of Obi-Wan, Yoda and Anakin (in ghost form of course)
b) Leia and Luke realizing they are twins
c) Anakin forgoing the Sith for his true calling - to bring balance to the Force
d) The emergence of leaders for the New Republic - Leia, Han, Lando
-Brian
If you move I shoots!
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2005 : 13:47:43
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| yeah, some of those scenes in JEDI with the Ewoks throwing rocks on stormtroopers.. that was like, student-film worthy |
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Broken Face
-= Forum Pistolero =-
USA
5157 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2005 : 13:51:45
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oh, and Lucas brought up a really interesting point in an interview i read that i had never thought of before:
(from Rolling Stone)
What was the greatest challenge with him [Vader]?
I had to make Darth Vader scary without the audience ever seeing his face. Basically, it's just a black mask. I said, "How do I make that evil and scary?" I mean, he's big and black and he's got a cape and a samurai helmet, but that doesn't necessarily make people afraid of him. His character's got to go beyond that -- that's how we get his impersonal way of dealing with things. He's done a lot of horrible things in his life that he isn't particularly proud of. Ultimately, he's just a pathetic guy who's had a very sad life.
The first film, people didn't even know whether there was a person there. They thought he was a monster or some kind of a robot. In the second film, it's revealed that he's a human being, and in the third film you find out that, yes, he's a father and a regular person like the rest of us -- he's just got a bit of a complexion problem.
Even as you were building up this iconic villain, you knew the tragedy behind it.
He's so overwhelming in that first film, but you get to the point where you say, "Wait a minute, if he's so powerful, why doesn't he run the universe?" He even gets pushed around by the governors! They know the Emperor is the final word, so what happens is the same thing that happens in any corporation: Everybody worries about the top man, they don't worry about his goon. And by the time the Death Star is finished, it gives them the sense that they have a bigger, better suit than Darth Vader. In a standoff between the Death Star and Darth Vader, they have no question about who would win, and it's not this mumbo-jumbo Sith guy. So it's even more tragic, because he's not even an all-powerful bad guy, he's kind of a flunky.
He's not Satan, he just goes down to the corner and gets Satan's cigarettes.
You got it. And when he finds out Luke is his son, his first impulse is to figure out a way of getting him to join him to kill the Emperor. That's what Siths do! He tries it with anybody he thinks might be more powerful, which is what the Emperor was looking for in the first place: somebody who would be more powerful than he was and could help him rule the universe. But Obi-Wan screwed that up by cutting off his arms and legs and burning him up. From then on, he wasn't as strong as the Emperor -- he was like Darth Maul or Count Dooku. He wasn't what he was supposed to become. But the son could become that.
-Brian
If you move I shoots!
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whoreatthedoor
> Teenager of the Year <
Spain
2873 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2005 : 14:06:04
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I would have killed the Emperor.
I guess Luke would have to go back to finish his studies as a Jedi at the end of the last movie. You can't resurrect the order if you only have made a summer course in a hurry, you know.
El amor es la distancia más larga entre un punto y otro |
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Homers_pet_monkey
= Official forum monkey =
United Kingdom
17125 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2005 : 14:55:44
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quote:
Originally posted by floop
am i the only one who, watching EMPIRE, kind of wanted Luke to join the dark side? i mean, yeah, it's evil and all that.. but you have to admit it could have been kind of cool. father and son fucking shit up..
anyone with me?
Not as a child but after watching Revenge Of The Sith I have crossed over to the dark side.
I think if he ever got around to the last three then Luke could possibly turn to the dark side eventually.
I am not sure that Leia is the "other" though. Is there any indication that Leia has the force? Besides, if the female Jedi in ROTS are anything to go by then female do a good Jedi make.
I guess floop WAS right!
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Edited by - Homers_pet_monkey on 06/06/2005 14:59:22 |
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tobafett
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1713 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2005 : 15:03:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Homers_pet_monkey
I am not sure that Leia is the "other" though. Is there any indication that Leia has the force? Besides, if the female Jedi in ROTS are anything to go by then female do a good Jedi make.
Leia is the other. Only few mentions in the films (from the expanded universe, yes)...perhaps she used her inborn jedi skills to placate/pacify while a Senator, huh? that and Luke tells her that she can study up and be a Jedi..."my sister has it", etc... |
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TRANSMARINE
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
2002 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2005 : 15:14:30
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Good point, tobafett. Also remember in Jedi (and I may be paraphrasing...havn't seen it in years) when Obi-Wan is saddened by the fact Luke is the last Jedi, and Yoda says "No...there is another." Maybe it was in ESB when Luke left Dagobah...I can't recall. But anyhow, the point is that the 'other' Jedi line alludes to Leia. Who else could there be? Or maybe he meant Aunt Beru! Wouldn't that be the best if they made a series of television movies focusing on the secret 'Jedi' lifestyle of Aunt Beru?! Uncle Owen would be the comic relief because he is constantly trying to figure out why she is gone most of the day. Maybe it's not a good idea.
I was alone...in my BIG BED
-bRIAN |
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Homers_pet_monkey
= Official forum monkey =
United Kingdom
17125 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2005 : 15:47:19
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I remember the "there is another" line but I am still not sure it refers to Leia. I think she is a smokescreen and it will end up being someone else. There is no saying that the next one (and presumably the one who will bring a balance to force) will come from the Skywalker family.
I doubt Lucas would have the one who brings the balance be a female. Females don't feature that strongly in any of his films other than Leia and Padame (and she is not that impressive as a warrior, in fact neither is Leia) so I doubt he would do something so radical for him.
I could be wrong though. He may not even make them yet (though someone will).
One thing I did wonder after ROTS though, was where the Sith rise from after ROTJ.
I guess floop WAS right!
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tobafett
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1713 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2005 : 15:55:00
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aw, come on Homers! it's leia! cave in and tell me i'm right...floop doesn't have that copyrighted yet, does he?
Granted, Leia is not a strong warrior but she is spunky and her area is more political, not behind a blaster or saber.
"that boy is our last hope" (ben)
"no, there is another" (yoda)
and when DV and Luke are a-fightin' on the deathstar, DV says something like "your feelings betray you...especially for...Sister! So, you have a twin sister! Obi-Wan was wise to hide her from me. If you cannot be turned, then perhaps she will." see...if she ain't a jedi then she can't be turned but she's a by-default jedi being his kid so she could be turned to the dark side.
tobafett is right.
(owe you a beer for infringement, floop) |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6289 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2005 : 15:59:56
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Yes Leia is the other one
she's luke's sister
Anakins daugher
which means
she has the force
DV knows that, that's why he wants to find Leia if Luke won't join him
"I joined the cult of Jon Tiven/Bye!" |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11690 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2005 : 16:03:31
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quote:
Originally posted by speedy_m
Luke goes to confront Vader, not kill the Emperor, as billgoodman said. He could not have killed the Emperor, I beleive because a)the Emperor was more powerful and b)Vader would not have let him. Luke tries to strike Palpatine but Vader stops him. It's Vader Luke refuses to kill, not the Emperor. He rejects the idea of killing Vader (because of his anger and fear for Leia), and thus rejects joining the dark side. He would rather die than go down that path (as his father did). They were faced with the same choice, and Luke made right one.
And Jedi don't seek Revenge, their motivations are more pure. Return of the Jedi is a far more fitting title, as Luke's emergence as a Jedi Knight signaled the return. Revenge of the Sith is better for Episode 3 because a Sith would seek revenge.
I am God's brother, his soul mate and team mate/He passes me info-mation/and I reciprocate
You are my hero for not making me type this on my keyboard zhich is eqilt the zorst one Iůve ever typed on; and also hitting the nail on the head:
 "Join the Cult of Frank / And you'll be enlightened" |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11690 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2005 : 16:11:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Homers_pet_monkey
I remember the "there is another" line but I am still not sure it refers to Leia. I think she is a smokescreen and it will end up being someone else. There is no saying that the next one (and presumably the one who will bring a balance to force) will come from the Skywalker family.
I doubt Lucas would have the one who brings the balance be a female. Females don't feature that strongly in any of his films other than Leia and Padame (and she is not that impressive as a warrior, in fact neither is Leia) so I doubt he would do something so radical for him.
I could be wrong though. He may not even make them yet (though someone will).
One thing I did wonder after ROTS though, was where the Sith rise from after ROTJ.
I guess floop WAS right!
Ironically, I'd say that while Luke & Han are the warriors, Leia's running the show as far as direction goes. Not to mention that the leader of the rebellion, Mon Mothma (seen briefy in ROTJ) is female. :)
"Join the Cult of Frank / And you'll be enlightened" |
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glacial906
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1738 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2005 : 17:58:26
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This question is a bit off topic.
Is the characteristic Darth Vader noise (that noise that sounds like air being sucked into and expelled from a hollow tube) supposed to be his breathing? The only reason I ask is because I've noticed that he talks while he's making that noise. Normal humans exhale breath when they speak, but they don't speak while they're inhaling. (Well, you can but it sounds kind of weird). I thought that maybe it was some kind of mechanism that controlled his lungs expansion and contraction, like maybe he got injured so bad in ROTS that he couldn't do it on his own anymore.
Signature censored by forum moderators. |
Edited by - glacial906 on 06/06/2005 17:59:55 |
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STAR WARS discussion for the amateur
