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Jordo
- FB Fan -
USA
98 Posts |
 Posted - 04/21/2005 : 21:17:04
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I wasn't sure if I should put this in THIS forum or "general frank black chat"
I work at a bookstore and I found myself shelving a pixies book called "Gigantic". Is this new? I didn't see any posts about it...
I read most of it (nothing much happens at work...). It's horrible. He speeds through everything, he seems to genuinely hate Frank Black and 90% of the pixies music, and 100% of his solo work. He constantly calls franks lyrics lazy and uninspired, and has nothing but disdain for his solo work, ESPECIALLY Teenager of the Year, which he pretty much says is horrible and embarrassing. He hates Frank Black and the Catholics and goes on and on about what a horrible idea it was to record live (he says things like "the cymbals should be quieter!" etc... wow he must really know a lot about music...)
It's the coldest book I've ever read. It has no heart and is just shitting on Frank Black, and hell, music in general. It's a miserable read and no one should buy it. There's also nothing new or interesting in it. His writing style is sarcastic and trying to be "clever", except there's no point to any of it. It's literally the most smug writing I've ever read, it's pathetic.
Did I mention HALF of the book (ie just about every other chapter)is some sort of fictional (??) story called "Vicky's Story" that barely has any relation to frank black/the pixies? What the .. ??
Jordan
my music! my music!
www.jordancooperLaLaLa.com
www.myspace.com/jordancooper |
Edited by - Broken Face on 04/23/2005 06:48:33 |
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BLT
> Teenager of the Year <
South Sandwich Islands
4204 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2005 : 23:33:42
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MOJO says:
"What else apart from expediency would prompt John Mendelssohn to devote nearly half of Gigantic's already meagre 198 pages to the fictional travails of 20-year-old Pixies fan Vicky Tighe? The subtext of this unconventional biography is Mendelssohn's thwarted ambition, as his interview entreaties are ignored by Frank Black, then obstructed by Black's "surly" manager. Cue a breathless secondary source trawl, in which the author's sardonic attitude ("probably the second best album of his post-Pixies career, which you may take in any way you please"), though at first entertaining, becomes cumulatively wearisome.
(2/5 stars) |
Edited by - BLT on 04/21/2005 23:34:24 |
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Jordo
- FB Fan -
USA
98 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2005 : 00:06:11
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Haha...
That is hilarious, thank you.
Literally like, steam was coming out of my ears as I was sitting there reading this book. All I could think was like "The only thing I could do is go on the frank black forum and tell people NOT to buy it"
Flip through it, look at the photos (but don't read his asshole comments under them, which are mostly making fun of Frank Black's weight), just don't buy it.
The book is like one big stream of fat jokes...
Jordan
my music! my music!
www.jordancooperLaLaLa.com
www.myspace.com/jordancooper |
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BLT
> Teenager of the Year <
South Sandwich Islands
4204 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2005 : 07:01:31
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| It makes you wonder if Mendelssohn made his agenda before or after Frank refused his phone call. |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11674 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2005 : 07:43:57
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A conversation I had with the author on his book. I hope he doesn't mind me posting it, but I think it kind of explains the angle he approached it from. The initial quote was taken from a post I made here and the rest was an email convo.
Dean = blue,
John = red
quote:
Why would someone devote a lot of time to writing a book about a musician they dislike?
Oh yeah, money.
You make it sound so sleazy, Dean. Consider this, though, if you were an auto mechanic, would you refuse to work on a car you wouldn't personally want to drive? If you were a plumber, would you refuse to fix leaks in a house you wouldn't want to live in personally?
I don't have the luxury of writing only about musicians whose work I personally enjoy. When I accepted the commission to write about the Pixies, I knew very little about their music. I sat down with it and tried very hard to see what others enjoyed about it; enjoying it myself would have made the whole project a lot more pleasurable for me. In the end, regrettably, I wasn't able to. Does that somehow disqualify me from trying to recount their story?
Hey John, thanks for the reply.
When it comes down to it, it appears my analysis was correct and I respect you for essentially saying as much. Admittedly, I do agree with you... anyone should be able to talk about art, not just those that are madly in love with it. I suppose it depends on the angle you came at it.
It was never an issue. But again, would you impugn the ethics of a mechanic who fixed a car he wouldn't personally want to own? I write for a living. I write for the joy of it sometimes, and at other times because I need to do it to keep a roof over my head. Whether you or anyone else believes it or not, I know in my heart that I made a good faith attempt to understand what others love about this band.
If you come at it with the intent of scoring off their popularity alone, even though you dislike them, I would say that's sleazy. If you were offered the commission having never listened to the Pixies (and I question why they'd not give it to someone familiar with them) and, as you say you did, gave them a fair shake before coming to conclusions and after accepting the commission, that's fair. I guess so long as you didn't take it knowing you hated them in the first place solely to capitalize on their current popularity which was my interpretation. Apparently I was wrong, so my apologies.
Whether you or anyone else believes it or not, I know in my heart that I made a good faith attempt to understand what others love about this band.
If you don't mind though, I'd like to know what it is you hate about the Pixies?
Who said I hated them, Dean? I hate Madonna. I hate Motley Crue. I hate Kiss. I hate Britney Spears. I hate British "R 'n' B," as they dare to call this insipid hiphop-derived pop crap that's so popular here at the moment. I don't hate the Pixies at all. I don't even dislike them. I simply don't enjoy their music. For whatever reason, it just doesn't
ring my own personal bell. If it rings yours, more power to you.
What are their dooming qualities? How much would you say you listened to any particular record? Just in the interest of dialogue.
Hard to tell if you're being snide; I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Dooming qualities are discussed in considerable detail in my book, Dean. Lots of weirdness for its own sake. A lot of tunelessness. Shitty bass-playing. Terrible harmonising. Really careless, incoherent lyrics. I listened to every album at least twice, and attentively, not while doing something else, paying 100 percent attention. In the case of several Frank Black albums, I found it a fairly painful experience!
I'll tell you what did rather piss me off. At the very beginning, I approached their manager about the project, with the utmost respect. He was very encouraging, only to become really surly and officious (and even to lie about me!) later on. I personally found that fairly shitty. I would have much preferred to have written a book that didn't even reveal my distaste for the music, that was based solely on what the band told me about themselves. Such a book would have been 100 times
easier and more fun to write, and you fans would almost certainly have been much, much happier with it. But Charles couldn't be persuaded to sit down with me for 15 minutes when they were in London, just to get a sense of the sort of person or writer I am.
I guess I don't really care for the car analogy because art isn't a commodity and the comparison doesn't really seem to fit for me. I suppose my initial comment on the forum was why expend the energy writing a book to slam a band when art at best is subjective.
I didn't write a book to slam a band; I wrote a book to tell a band's story to the very best of my ability. Because they refused to become involved, I had no recourse. given that I was contractually compelled to supply a manuscript of a certain length, but to insert myself, as critical listener, into the book. I would much have preferred to have stayed out of it.
And why no mention of the fictional 40 percent of the book? I could easily have made my heroine someone who shares my opinion that the Pixies suck. Instead, I made her someone who remained a devotee of Charles's music throughout her adult life. How is that nobody seems to notice that?
But perhaps that should have been refined into, why write it now? When the Pixies are suddenly popular. It did seem suspect at best, though you've explained where you're coming from and I can respect that (and I did say I believed it).
My final questions were not at all snide nor was that the intent of any of my email. I don't know that you said you hated them, that was a poor choice of wording on my part. Incidentally, I share all your hates, although my hatred for R&B extends well beyond what's within earshot of the UK. The questions were more as an attempt to understand someone's dislike since it's difficult being that I truly do love almost all of the Pixies catalogue (though perhaps not as much as FB's solo works).
Though it's too late now, I would recommend at LEAST a three spin minimum. Which may itself be reason for criticism, but I suppose I subscribe to the "good-things-take-time" school of thought.
I must have listened to the universally praised Doolittle seven times, Dean. And it just didn't work for me, no matter how hard I tried.
I do agree that at times the lyrics are rather meaningless, and Charles would probably be the first to tell you that when he writes, it's often about sounds and filling them in to become words (Monkey Gone To Heaven, for example). But I think he often takes it a lot further than soundscapes and does produce some compelling allegory, metaphor, and even graphic imagery. This becomes particularly evident as you move from Pixies to Frank Black and throughout his solo career and time with the Catholics. Which, I suppose, is fair given that over that time he's obviously grown up a lot.
Your turn to be fair. There are countless instances in the book of my praising something (often, I think, out of proportion to its value, just trying to be as positive as possible) when I detect some merit. I remember singling out a couple of his songs for praise because they actually seemed to be about something. As though that's inherently praiseworthy!
I can't agree with you on the bass playing or harmonizing, but fair enough. I initially had a very negative reaction to the Pixies that somehow grew into love. I didn't even like the vocals. Perhaps try them a few more times. I'd more or less given up on them and decided to spin an introductory mix a friend had given me once more when all of a sudden, I realized their brilliance. Not all at once, mind you. Bits at a time. Like a puzzle being pieced together and revealing the entirety of the shattered image.
I sincerely wish I shared your enthusiasm, as it would mean an additional source of pleasure in my life.
I won't defend Ken, not being privy to the conversations and so forth, but he's known to be fairly protective, and I suppose that's a manager's job. Kind of the reaction you'd expect if someone came up to a mother, said they were going to expose their children, and asked for assistance. I'm not saying you were wrong...
Good, cos I wasn't. It was hardly my intent to "expose" anything. It would have been easy and fun to write a book about the Pixies' view of their own history. I repeat: I WOULD HAVE PREFERRED THAT. Ken Goes plain and simple jerked me around, and then when into officious asshole mode for NO REASON WHATEVER. My impression was he enjoyed the feeling of power or something. And in my mind it's absolutely incomprehensible that Charles should talk about how grateful he is for any attention at all, and then refuse to meet with me for 15 minutes. Repeat: I HAD NO AXE TO GRIND. Everybody -- me, Charles, Ken Goes, and you -- would have been happier if the group had cooperated. I point out several times in the book that Charles has a real knack for shooting himself in the foot. This, in my view, was another one.
I think it might've helped to have some discussion as we have and I certainly don't think there's any excuse for snapping at people and prejudging, just trying to see the other side a bit.
[red]I was happy to have had exactly such discussions. Ken Goes was too busy being an officious asshole for that to happen, though, hurling his grand pronouncements down at me from on high. Wanker.
Anyway, Dean, I'm glad we were able to have this dialogue.
 "I joined the Cult of Frank / Wooteenie!" |
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johnc
- FB Fan -
118 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2005 : 07:58:50
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"Lots of weirdness for its own sake. A lot of tunelessness. Shitty bass-playing. Terrible harmonising. Really careless, incoherent lyrics".
Yeah, that sounds just like the Pixies. Clown!!! 
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Carl
- A 'Fifth' Catholic -
Ireland
11546 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2005 : 08:14:56
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Thanks for posting that, COF. I've heard a lot of negative stuff about that book, and I have to say, while I hav'nt read it, it just sounds like a load of toss. He does'nt have to be a Pixies fan to write a book about them, but for fuck's sake, what on EARTH has the fictional story part got to do with the Pixies? It should point out on the cover that it is not a Pixies biography, although that's clearly it's intention, and it just seems like a cynical money-grubbing exercise to me.
[PS-Of course, there's another Pixies book on the way which apparently is/has been written with more care and co-operation!] |
Edited by - Carl on 04/22/2005 08:16:39 |
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TRANSMARINE
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
2002 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2005 : 08:15:26
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Welcome to the world of biographies!!!
Catchin' blue in his eyes that were brown
-bRIAN |
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Carl
- A 'Fifth' Catholic -
Ireland
11546 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2005 : 08:17:34
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| Indeed. This one sounds like it's from the lower end of the scale! |
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fbc
-= Modulator =-
United Kingdom
4903 Posts |
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Carl
- A 'Fifth' Catholic -
Ireland
11546 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2005 : 09:23:36
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| I dont't see any Frank post!! |
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fbc
-= Modulator =-
United Kingdom
4903 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2005 : 09:37:13
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It's in Homers link:
Posted - 10/20/2004 : 13:49:03
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Hi.
From time to time The Pixies or myself are approached by writers, wannabe writers, film makers, wannabe film makers, and others, to do something on the band. For lots of different reasons, we or our manager frequently decline these offers. Usually because we find the proposals to be a bit predictable, mundane and generally a waste of time for us. Nothing personal. It's a free country. People can write about whatever they want. This guy John wanted access to the band and we did not care to participate. You may draw your own conclusions. Sometimes people who want to do something on the band assume that just because it has been proposed that we would, of course, be delighted to accomodate. And when we do not accomodate them they sometimes get pissy and grouchy. I don't know what this person's attitude is as we have never spoken and I have never read anything that he has written.
FB
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Jordo
- FB Fan -
USA
98 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2005 : 12:19:05
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Very very interesting. This makes everything make a lot more sense.
I also wasn't aware there was already an in-depth thread about this, sorry!
Despite being able to see the authors point of view now, I still think he's a terrible writer, and has written a terrible and insulting book. I hate that the cover says something like "THE DEFINITIVE PIXIES BIOGRAPHY" ...
Jordan
my music! my music!
www.jordancooperLaLaLa.com
www.myspace.com/jordancooper |
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fbc
-= Modulator =-
United Kingdom
4903 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2005 : 13:17:43
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No apologies needed here Jordo. just like FB and the Pixies, we all find new things out at different times. You weren't to know.
I agree about what you say. After my posts within the other thread, I played mail tennis with the author for a few days. he understood all our points of view while offering his own. He was just earning a wage like most of us has to, his trade is journalism. He took the job on not knowing much about Frank and the Pixies so decided to research himself what the hype was all about. He didn't really get it, and so that comes across in the book.
I wished he would have written from just a factual angle, rather than opinion, but there you go.
And it gets negative reviews (from me too) because the subject of the book is something so close to our (mine) hearts.
You have to read it to believe, but FB's post says it all. It's not the 'definitive' by a long shot |
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VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2005 : 13:26:50
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I guess the cover artist was even lousier than the writer.
I really don't see why this guy was given the assignment to write this book, when he apparently can't write very well, and knows little about the subject matter. Since this is presumably the case, I guess I can't fault him for writing a negative book, but that doesn't explain the pointless fictional narrative or the fat jokes.
And since when does not knowing what a song's about make it bad?
I was all out of luck, like a duck that died. I was all out of juice, like a moose denied. |
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fbc
-= Modulator =-
United Kingdom
4903 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2005 : 14:31:43
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quote:
Originally posted by VoVat
I really don't see why this guy was given the assignment to write this book
Maybe it was commissioned by a friend or previous colleague.
In theory, it was all about cashing in on the back of the reunion but whether they did, I don't know. Someone somewhere knew the financial potential of such a book. I've yet to find a decent read on the band, let alone Frank Black himself.
Still waiting on that one. |
Edited by - fbc on 04/22/2005 14:32:01 |
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TRANSMARINE
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
2002 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2005 : 15:52:38
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Biographies are 98% of the time total crap. It's like the news. It can't just be news. It has to be Hollywood. Unfortunately, biographers MUST have the last word on their research subject simply because they are, in a sense, Frankenstein and are creating from whatever slant they personally feel as opposed to piecing together facts.
Catchin' blue in his eyes that were brown
-bRIAN |
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mosleyk
= Cult of Ray =
USA
607 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2005 : 15:55:15
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| Can you imagine if Kitty Kelly was commissioned to write a book on the Pixies. |
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DruggedBunny
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
395 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2005 : 03:48:00
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The funny thing is, word gets out and the fans that are supposed to be the target audience for the book don't buy it. Great marketing plan, Mendelssohn! What a hack.
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"Nothing to do about it..." |
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fbc
-= Modulator =-
United Kingdom
4903 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2005 : 05:46:23
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Word got out here, I don't know about the Pixie sites, and I haven't read any reviews anywhere in print (haven't botherd to look)
Thing is, go to a Frank Black gig in England and it will be sold out, but where are they all?
This place just seems to be for the cream of the crop (the die-hards, and i mean these terms very, very loosely), us fans who enjoy killing some of our own free time on this forum. We're not the only ones out there, just the few who log on. There are hundreds/thousands more FB fans out there never to grace this board, and probably alot more into Pixies too.
Like some of them, ha! and my mum, they may have walked past their local music/book store, saw the 'Gigantic' promotions and bought what they believed was a book on FB and the Ps.
I bet they've got some of their money back. We're not all in the know. |
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Broken Face
-= Forum Pistolero =-
USA
5155 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2005 : 06:48:21
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EDIT - MOVED
-Brian
If you move I shoots!
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Daisy Girl
~ Abstract Brain ~
Belize
5305 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2005 : 14:32:40
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Thanks Dean. That was an interesting dialogue. What I don't "get" about J M is that he would have sold a crap load more books if he would have even feigned he liked the Pixies.
I mean what fan wants to pay money for a book where the the band gets trashed?
I accidently did thinking I was buying the other book and I would reccomend people wait for the other book that is coming out this summer.
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two reelers
* Dog in the Sand *
Austria
1018 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2005 : 03:53:52
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"This guy John wanted access to the band and we did not care to participate. You may draw your own conclusions. (FB)"
that says a lot, i mean the second sentence.
I joined the cult of Souled American / 'cause they are a damn' fine band |
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VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2005 : 10:02:38
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quote:
What I don't "get" about J M is that he would have sold a crap load more books if he would have even feigned he liked the Pixies.
Maybe he was just paid outright for the manuscript, rather than receiving royalties, which means he wouldn't really care that much how many copies it sells. Of course, in that case, you'd think the publishing company would want to have hired someone who liked the band.
I was all out of luck, like a duck that died. I was all out of juice, like a moose denied. |
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Carl
- A 'Fifth' Catholic -
Ireland
11546 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2005 : 12:49:20
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| It's idiotic. He dos'nt have to be a slavering, obsessive fan. But it's like those articles in magazines, where the journalist has no interest in the subject. It's a bit cynical. |
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Daisy Girl
~ Abstract Brain ~
Belize
5305 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2005 : 13:21:00
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quote:
Originally posted by VoVat
quote:
What I don't "get" about J M is that he would have sold a crap load more books if he would have even feigned he liked the Pixies.
Maybe he was just paid outright for the manuscript, rather than receiving royalties, which means he wouldn't really care that much how many copies it sells. Of course, in that case, you'd think the publishing company would want to have hired someone who liked the band.
Vovat, this is just another piece of evidence of your superior intelignce and reasoning  You are so smart I am envious  You rule!!!
I was all out of luck, like a duck that died. I was all out of juice, like a moose denied.
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VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2005 : 17:52:23
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Thanks. To be fair, though, I WAS just making a wild guess.
I was all out of luck, like a duck that died. I was all out of juice, like a moose denied. |
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pixieslive.com
- FB Fan -
78 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2005 : 04:01:29
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Just got word from someone on this forum (thanks, LS) that I'm thanked/noted in the back of the book - having read the reviews here and on Amazon I'm not sure I should be happy with my fifteen seconds of fame or not.
I guess I'll pick it up this weekend, if the book is indeed the hatchet job all the reviews make it out to be I'll politely ask for the removal of my name from future(?) editions.
http://pixieslive.com |
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TRANSMARINE
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
2002 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2005 : 12:51:20
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I just was on my lunch break and decided to go to my local bookstore. Sure enough, there were 2 copies of the Book In Question. I perused the thing for about 7 minutes. Like everyone has frothed, it is mesmerizingly and stupifyingly (is that a word? Maybe Mr. Mendelssohn could research it for me...oh, wait...that ain't his style!)inept. However, it was so trashy, I was HIGHLY entertained.
The pictures were kind of cool. And the captions, though inexcusable, caused a chuckle along with a simultaneous pain.
If anything, we shouldn't worry too much. If anyone reviews this book, I'm sure the general media consensus will be that Mendelssohn is more damaging to his own reputation than to those he aspires to, and never will, be.
Catchin' blue in his eyes that were brown
-bRIAN |
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Kirk
= Cult of Ray =
USA
633 Posts |
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TRANSMARINE
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
2002 Posts |
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Daisy Girl
~ Abstract Brain ~
Belize
5305 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2005 : 22:33:37
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Ok ... I think the title of this thread should be changed to New (crappy) Pixies book... not to be confused by the cool Pixies book that is coming out soon.
The reason why I bought this piece of crap is that I ordered this book and five minutes after I realized I didn't order the cool Pixies book... They wouldn't let me cancel my friggin order!
When it came in the mail... the cover looked like it was printed on a color copier... I felt I was ordering one of those books that let any one publish a book for $5000... and you can judge a book by its cover in this case... crappy book cover ='s equally crappy book.
OK so here's the deal... if you are THAT curious about this book... go to your local bookstore... grab a cofeee and skim through this book. In 2 minutes you will realize it's a piece and you'll be glad you didn't by it.
So save your money for the new good book that is going to come out... for a Pixies concert ticket... a Pixies cd....anything but this! |
Edited by - Daisy Girl on 05/06/2005 22:34:47 |
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Carl
- A 'Fifth' Catholic -
Ireland
11546 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2005 : 06:56:59
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| I hav'nt read it, but it sounds damn well awful! In fact, I might read it just so as I can start a legitimate campaign to have it immeadiately taken out of print! ;) |
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ross dundee
- FB Fan -
United Kingdom
9 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2005 : 10:54:51
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my brother came home with the new (crappy) book and couldnt wait to start reading it but was very pist off with the whole book and advised me not to read it.I had a flick threw it and i could not believe the crap the author was coming out with!
gouge away |
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Angry Simon
- FB Fan -
United Kingdom
3 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2005 : 07:49:23
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| The point to vicky's story is to highlight how pixies sound came to affect the lives of 'normal' people. It's an excellent addition to the book and I'd love to see more examples of this in other works. It's a great read. The fact that is not entirely 'factual' takes the monotony out of it: the kinda monotonous grey-headed drivel you find with alot of biogs. It's good to witness not only the authors personality coming to life, but also that of vicky's and alans. Top read!!! |
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Angry Simon
- FB Fan -
United Kingdom
3 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2005 : 07:50:33
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| ....it's about the fans aswell as the band!!! Surely that's a plus!!!?? |
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New (crappy) Pixies book
